By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #284) on Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 11:16 pm: |
http://www.bonaireinsider.com/index.php/bonaireinsider/kralendijk_street_closures_during_2008_2009_cruise_ship_season/
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By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 11:27 pm: |
It is not fair or responsible to post a statement like that without anything to back it up. Allegations of corruption are serious and should not be just tossed around because you don't like other types of tourists.
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By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #676) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:18 am: |
Is the increase of revenue due to more cruise ships in port going toward anything to mitigate the impact caused by them?
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By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:21 am: |
In the long term nothing good is going to come out these cruise ship visits for Bonaire, its people, and their quality of life.
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By ****Tink**** (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #7849) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:32 am: |
grunt, no, the cruise ship passengers pay nothing in Marine Park Fees, even if they dive or snorkel.
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By Jerry (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #53) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:39 am: |
You can stop right here unless you can back up the information posted. BT will not go down this road without proper facts in place.
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By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #677) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:39 am: |
At which point the "entitled" cruise ship passenger would "politely" ignore the signs.
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By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14333) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 1:00 am: |
I agree, someone is making a tone of bucks out of this, but, we have no facts to back it up. Please don't start a fire. We need the facts.
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By Vince DePietro (Bonaire Beach Condo ) (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1793) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 6:38 am: |
Well, personally I think this is a very disturbing news statistic. Too many pod people IMHO. It certainly doesn't help the environment and that appears to be the direction the local gov is going.
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By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #136) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 10:00 am: |
The cruise ship traffic just compounds the sewage problem by more human excrement seeping onto the reef. The #1 priority of the government now should be saving the reef, which is the source of its tourist economy, especially now that there is so much damage from Omar. All those nitrites will make it more likely that the reef won't come back like it did after Lenny. But it seems like the bureaucracy just can't get it together to stop the sewage .
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1076) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 11:17 am: |
They know the Marine Park is being adversely effected by hurricanes and sewage - the purpose of the cruise ships and the relentless drive to increase the cruise ship traffic as much as possible is to replace lost diver income anticipated down the road. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. I have almost exclusively dove Bonaire for the past eight years and am just as fanatical about Bonaire as the next BTer but I am finally capitulating and agreeing with Mel here - the days of Bonaire as a premier dive destination are numbered. In fact, me being exclusively a shore diver, I've got the ball rolling to get cavern and cave certified so I can be prepared to replace some of my twice yearly Bonaire trips in a couple of years time with cave trips to Mexico and Florida. Sad, but true.
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By ****Tink**** (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #7854) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 11:41 am: |
There is also the damage they do to the surrounding reefs when they come in, dock, and start their engines and leave.
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By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3500) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 2:24 pm: |
If you research the economic and eco environmental impact of cruise ship tourism to the islands, you will be enlightened and deeply concerned. I wish our country's politicians and tourism specialists sought out smaller boutique lines vs mega ships.
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By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #285) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 4:09 pm: |
Jerry, there are no Bonaire-based "proper facts" to present, so I think your demand could be viewed as either a red herring/diversionary action, or a way to prevent the subject from being discussed. The effort needs to be made to get some facts from Bonaire. The facts include careful surveys of possible degradation, finding out where all the money goes that these ships bring in, and why the passengers are not charged to use the reef, like everyone else.
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By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14346) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 5:18 pm: |
Mel, YGM.
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By John th'oldun (BonaireTalker - Post #49) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 9:21 pm: |
Pauline: How do you think the cruise ships contribute so much extra excrement? There are very few public toilets for them to use, and at any given time even fewer work, so most prefer to take the 5 minute walk back to the ship to relieve themselves rather than use the temporary facilities next to the customs office.
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By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 10:06 pm: |
Being new here, I was wondering--
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By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14352) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 10:17 pm: |
ws2, good point.
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By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #678) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 11:23 pm: |
ws2: As I do not possess any "true facts", I would wager that your supposition of "decision decided upon by an elite group of politicians and businessmen behind closed doors" would be spot on.
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By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #122) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 5:34 am: |
Reply for Old John
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By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 6:14 am: |
From this week's Bonaire Reporter !!
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By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #94) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 9:09 am: |
to get the facts correct ... the ONLY ship dumping their s--- on bonaire was the FREEWINDS .. and this ship is now banned from bonaire ...also"old John" is right on ... very few public toilets .. there were only 2 for the 2 mega ships this week...we should know - we are in the middle of the action .. in different capacities ... and you are hard pressed to find to find any facilities ...
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By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #124) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 9:56 am: |
That could be excellent news. When and how did they get banned ? They are still showing in the Cruise Ship Timetable for 2009 but it has not been updated since October...
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By Tom C. (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #8756) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 10:03 am: |
Pietri, thank you for your post.
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By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #679) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:03 am: |
The new cruise ship tax looks like it is going toward making Bonaire look like Cozumel.
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By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #114) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:27 am: |
Let us NOT see BON look like COZ. Never want to see that mess. Nothing good happens to the community at large when events develop in that direction for an island like BON.
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By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:28 am: |
"Promotion of the destination to cruise ship passengers."
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #212) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 12:31 pm: |
I love the "product development designed to give the cruise visitor a unique experience while on Bonaire" and just wonder what that product might be....
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3489) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 1:32 pm: |
Don't know how true this is but I was given to understand that a few of the cruise ships did not re up for next years season. Anyone have some feedback.
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By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #95) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 4:24 pm: |
yo Michael .. as in the thick of it i have some knowledge of this "rumor" it would be something to the effect that bonaire is not duty free and no good shopping because of this fact .. add in the EXTREMELY limited resources for the mass tourism -- how can we(meaning the few buses and licensed guides) make 6000 people happy ???i am already exhausted ... generally as a NATURE ORIENTED DESTINATION we are considered by the majority of the passengers as THE ISLAND THAT IS "SO HOT -- NO GOOD SHOPPING AND NOTHING TO DO HERE." As for your concern of the marketing .. we are telling it like it is .. or at least i am .. love nature .. no nitelife .. love yourself .. read a book sit and relax.. turn off the airco and listen to our more than 200 species of birds..get in the water and see our miracle reef .. .. then it's your destination - if not go to another island with a lot of American chain eat places.. casinos and lots of destructive water sports --amen .. please ..BT talkers .. keep the faith .. this will pass ....
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By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #96) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 4:34 pm: |
in regard to the marketing .. the focus is to encourage the passengers to consider bonaire as a stay over destination .. not to promote more ships .. i have had some incredible experiences with the people who recognize bonaire as what it is .. including a group of 8 who changed their dive trip to us from the great barrier and are now repeat visitors .. coming from the UK ..
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By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #121) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 5:10 pm: |
Good thoughts Pietri. Thanks.
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By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14364) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 5:16 pm: |
Pietri, I'm buying you a cold one next time I'm on Bonaire.
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By pat murphy (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1641) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 7:51 pm: |
i read a newspaper article about 10 years ago that said that less than 2% of cruise ships visitors ever return to a destination as land-based visitors. maybe that statistic has changed in the meantime but i doubt it. most are content to continue cruising and using the ships and their hotels. granted, a few will come back and stay for a week or two but it appears the majority don't.
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By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #97) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 8:12 pm: |
no disagreement on my part .. the mouse wants to roar .. i am for myself trying not to get "in it" but bonaire is what it is .. a diver - nature orientated destination.. my input .. i am greatly disturbed by this mass indentation .. my opinion .. again -- relax -- bonaire is for very special people who understand what bonaire is .. a treasure ..
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By Sparty (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #178) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:47 pm: |
Regarding Dan's reference to COZ:
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By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #286) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 12:29 am: |
Pietri, no disrespect meant to your efforts and your passion, but I'm afraid I cannot relax as you suggest, because the economic forces that desire the cruise ships and developments (and cabs!) will not rest.
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By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #138) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 9:22 am: |
I second Mel's sentiments. We can't just rest on Bonaire's reputation as a "treasure" as the forces to destroy that reputation increase daily: cruise ship traffic, overfishing, sewage/sewage/sewage, etc.
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By jan angier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #500) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 1:38 pm: |
According to the post quoting the Bonaire Reporter...money from pod-people tax would go to the Marine Park for "maintenance of the reef". Can anyone tell me how any money spent "maintaining the reef" will positively and effectively impact the reef without addressing the sewage issue?
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By jan angier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #501) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 1:50 pm: |
Adding to that thought...the sewage issue is not limited to pod-people impact. It is an issue for any human setting foot on the island who injests and excretes. The impact is real from all of us. However, with the influx of 3000+ people at a time, the impact is more obvious.
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By Peter Dobson / Den Laman unit F (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #150) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 2:17 pm: |
Does anyone know if there is a charitable organization collecting funds toward the start of a proper sewage plant? If there is none, would the government be willing to start a collection for same...BT divers I'm sure would be more than willing to contribute, as would all divers coming through the Airport. In a short time we would find out if divers are willing to pay for the privilege of diving Bonaire.
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By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 2:31 pm: |
Peter, the money for the sewage project has been allocated through the European Union and Holland. But there have been so many delays--20 years to be exact--that political pressure must be put on those in the Dutch government who are responsible for implementation to (1) order mandatory trucking of the sewage from the shoreline and (2)hire the sanitation contractors now to begin work in 2009. FYI, the head of the Green Party in Holland has just endorsed this plan last week.
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By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #98) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 6:11 pm: |
enuf is enuf with this thread for me .. it is absolutely incredible to suggest that visitors have more concern than the locals ...and to keep on the idea that it the pod people - cruise ship visitors to me - i find the first description insulting .. are at fault.. land - overnite visitors in season are equal or greater in number -3000- not for a day but for a week!!! show me that this impact is less... .. yes bonaire needs to address this problem and the upcoming transition is going to be difficult .. let this little country get thru a status change .. and give us time to get really moving .. what bonaire is going thru in these next weeks is enormous.... it is very easy to criticize and demand .. let this rest please .. and in truth it will happen in bonaire time..if you can't understand and go with this country's flow .. please .. come here ..immigrate.. learn your languages and after 10 years vote..
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By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #99) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 7:05 pm: |
just had to add that on this little country's agenda is pension now for the elderly - here at 60 years - enforced retirement - at $$$ 280 per month ..children of school age starving as our average income is considerably less than $10.000 per year ..unemployment for our youth close to 40%... lack of school supplies .. roads that can not be repaired,, medical care inadequate and on and on for lack of funding .. an increase of over 5% in cost of living .. so understand .. bonaire has a lot on the plate .. so i hope you can understand this is a developing country and sewage treatment is yet one more issue to face and solve .. not the only one ...
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By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #289) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 7:33 pm: |
Pietri, I'm sure it is extremely difficult in Bonaire; I can't even imagine. But it will be even harder without the income those 3000 divers a week bring. (Is that number right? I thought it was more like 60,000 a year...)
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1077) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 10:16 pm: |
Exactly. Mel hits the nail on the head. If funding is the problem, then killing the reef makes the funding problems worse by losing revenue through lost diver activity which has to make up the bulk of tourist dollars coming to the island. Logic based on length of diver's stays versus other types of tourist stays dictates that this is true. I challenge those on the island in the know to produce numbers that prove me wrong. Its not rocket science - its common sense. I can only conclude that many are in denial about the impending demise of Bonaire's reefs.
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By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #110) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 10:49 pm: |
Aruba seems to be doing quite well without divers as their primary source of income. I personally do not much care for Aruba but the point is that Bonaire will do just fine without divers. We are very self-serving in wanting to protect the reefs and we need to at least acknowledge that.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1078) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:01 pm: |
How, specifically, will Bonaire do better without divers? Do you have proof that the cruise traffic generates enough jobs and that cruisers spend enough money to trump the amount of money and jobs generated by divers? Basically you are saying that revenues generated by cruise ships would be able to replace the revenue lost by divers no longer visiting the island due to cruise ship traffic and damage to the reefs. Unless you can specifically provide proof of what you are saying, you're statements are merely your opinion, not based on fact and, with all due respect, do hold much water.
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By K I V ~ Kobi in Virginia (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #9657) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:18 pm: |
The license plate really says it all; Diver's Paradise. Not bird watching paradise, kayaking paradise, dining paradise, pod people watching paradise or shopping paradise.
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By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #680) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:21 pm: |
Aruba does just fine without divers due in part to great sand beaches. It is known for the beaches and casinos, not so much for diving. Could those beaches be manufactured for the benefit of cruise passengers? I have read in the past that sand is available on the east side of Bonaire.
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By Sparty (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #179) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:46 pm: |
RE building a beach for cruisers.
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By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 12:04 am: |
"...we are coming off sounding like self righteous foreigners who want to protect their playground without regard for the people who live there."
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By Vince DePietro (Bonaire Beach Condo ) (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1796) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 7:46 am: |
Fid.. IMHO there is absolutely no way Bonaire can compete with Aruba on their turf. Just ain't going to happen. If you believe otherwise, I think you're really kidding yourself and ought to re assess your position.
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By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #125) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:00 am: |
Please - Bonaire can not be a Roatan or Aruba. Like Fid I have no particular love of Aruba - like Miami more or less and not what we need on Bonaire. Also like Sparty we do not want a Roatan situation. I have done medical mission work on the Bay Islands since the early 90's - both Roatan and Guanaja. I did medical relief on Guanaja after Hurricane Mitch in 1998. I can say from an insider's perspective that Roatan as a result of the cruise ships is NOT the model anyone wants for Bonaire (I would hope). Check Bonaire Insider for the latest scoop on the public's perception of Bonaire as a diving destination. Scuba Diving Magazine apparently has Bonaire as #1 in 9 categories and is listed as the top dive destination in the Caribbean/Atlantic. This is the seventh consecutive year for Bonaire on this list. I can only trust it can stay that way.
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By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #140) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:27 am: |
Dan, I predict Bonaire will fall from #1 in many of those categories as there is more and more testimony that the reefs are dying, declining, whatever you want to call it. You can see from eyewitness testimony here from folks who have been coming for years. You can see it in Ramon De Leon's Aug. 1 statement about how Bonaire's lack of wastewater treatment is killing the reefs. Now is a critical time where resting on Bonaire's reputation from days past won't do because the contrary evidence is right in front of our masks.
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By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #290) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:28 am: |
Dan, here's the scary part: the rest of the Caribbean is degrading even faster than Bonaire, for most of the same reasons. The Scuba Diving poll is a relative statement of reef health, not absolute. So Bonaire may spend quite some time as "better" than the other destinations, but meanwhile they are all sliding downhill. Bonaire has a chance to stabilize its reef condition, I hope they don't squander it.
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By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #127) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:36 am: |
I agree. Bonaire is in a unique position for many reasons to be able to continue and improve upon the environmental ecology which Capt. Don has long championed. You are right - let's us not squander that opportunity.
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By Iris (BonaireTalker - Post #17) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:41 am: |
Pietri Hausmann; I can only say amen to your last 2 posts!
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By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #291) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:44 am: |
There's an old joke, originally told about two hunters and a bear, but in our context often told about two scuba divers and a shark: "Can you swim faster than a shark?" "You don't have to swim faster than a shark, you only have to swim faster than your buddy."
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By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #128) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 12:22 pm: |
Unfortunately in our society at large today, worldwide it seems, the attitude is along the line of "it is good enough". Instead of the attitude that something should be as good as it can possibly be. I see it in my kids and other people of my kid's generation, the offspring of the boomers. As I philosophize a bit more it seems my parents, the WWII generation put off many things in favor of work so when they retired they could enjoy life. That had some good points. My generation, the boomers, seem a bit more focused on enjoying the present BUT planning for the future - more balanced. Our kids seem a bit more desirous of living for today and not planning much for tomorrow since they don't have as positive an outlook an the future. Now I will shut up.
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By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #112) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 12:52 pm: |
Bonaire is not only targeting cruise ships for new sources of revenue. There are currently two major hotel complexes being built that I know of, the Hilton and Divi.
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By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #293) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 1:27 pm: |
Fid:
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By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 1:40 pm: |
Mel - I like your comments. Why does our society always feel the need to grow bigger, make more money, double this or that in x time frame? Bigger is not always better. More money is not always better. More cruise ships, resorts are not always better and certainly not for Bonaire and similar places around the world.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1079) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 2:03 pm: |
I read an article on Ervin "Magic" Johnston yesterday. Turns out that Magic has developed into a very successfull business owner since his playing days in the NBA and his organization known as Magic Johnson's enterprises has been producing extrodinarly high levels of revenues and profits. When the interviewer asked to what he attributed his success, Magic responded with this and I quote: "I don't try to be everything to everyone. I know what my niche is; you have to find your niche and play to your strengths to be successful." That brought the content of this thread home to me. It would be wise for the powers that be to take a little advice from Magic and stick to what Bonaire does best. For the record Fid, over the last 8 years I've dropped at least $10,000 on Bonaire just by myself - in my mind that entitles me, not just the locals, to an opinion on this subject.
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By Antony Bond (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #465) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:17 pm: |
If I'm not mistaken, the above comments are coming from Westerners living in capitalist societies.
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By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #142) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:52 pm: |
Fid, protecting the environment on Bonaire and economic sustainability are one and the same. As Mel so clearly illustrates, the reef is Bonaire's main economic asset. Without the reef, divers and snorkelers will not spend big bucks to fly down here when they can find the same degraded reefs for cheaper in the Virgin Island, the Bahamas, etc.
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By Ron Gould*** (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1790) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:56 pm: |
Antony, I hate to agree with you, but I think your words speak the TRUTH!
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By Vince DePietro (Bonaire Beach Condo ) (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1797) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:59 pm: |
****Bonaire began it's downfall when the first tourist arrived*****
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #213) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:12 pm: |
Amen Anthony, Amen!
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By Detlef SCHWAGER (BonaireTalker - Post #73) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:31 pm: |
I regret, Antony You are right.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1080) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:40 pm: |
I may be crass and arrogant (I'm used to liberals calling me that by the way so don't think you're unique using that holier than stuff on me Anthony) but the whole point that is being made is that the locals would be better off financially with a healthy reef and a diver's paradise than they would be with an unhealthy reef and a half ass divers paradise supplemented by cruise ships. Again, show me the numbers that prove me wrong and I'll gladly relent and tell you how right you are.
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By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #143) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 7:06 pm: |
There is a lot of truth in everyone's comments, but let me suggest that the "downfall" may have started centuries ago when the first European(s)arrived in the Caribbean area. Perhaps the native cultures should have never been disturbed. The same could be said for North America of course, and the entirety of the Americas. What is necessary is to make the most of what is there now for generations to come - because what happens in BON, the Caribbean and many other places affects the world. No "one" is an island any longer, for better or worse. The will end my penny's worth.
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By Sparty (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #181) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 7:24 pm: |
This is an excellent opportunity for me to present my pet theory.
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By Ron Gould*** (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1791) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 9:11 pm: |
AAH Sparty, please don't take yourself out! We like you, and all the good information you pass along... ;-)
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By Barton B (BonaireTalker - Post #87) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 11:55 pm: |
Sparty, I 100% agree with you!!
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By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #8) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 12:11 am: |
quote: "If I'm not mistaken, the above comments are coming from Westerners living in capitalist societies. Having subscribed to a throw away culture, globalisation, obesity through junk food, and the systematic destruction of our respective countries, we have the temerity to "advise" others on how to conduct their affairs."
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By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #115) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 8:38 pm: |
So now you have concluded that cruise ship passengers are stupid, lost, wastefull and generally environmentally unfriendly while you are intelligent, know your geography and are environmentally friendly?
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By K I V ~ Kobi in Virginia (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #9685) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 9:19 pm: |
Wow, Fid, what just spewed from the hole underneath your nose & out through your fingers was wasteful of time, unwise and unfriendly.
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By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 10:08 pm: |
I think we're all concerned about Bonaire and its future.
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By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #294) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 11:34 pm: |
Look folks, let's not get sidetracked. It all comes down to money. No money, Bonaire dies. The quick buck is potentially available: big cruise ships and hotels, casinos, compete with Aruba, etc. But that quick buck withers if the customers don't come. The stable buck is to play Bonaire's niche role: great reefs, easy diving. The key is to get some of the quick bucks without damaging the stable buck. I do not see that balance occurring.
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By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #683) on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 1:13 am: |
Mel: Ca Ching!!! You have hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1081) on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 9:11 am: |
Well said Mel.
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By Antony Bond (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #466) on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 1:55 pm: |
ws2.
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By Bonaireisgreat (BonaireTalker - Post #40) on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 9:18 pm: |
I haven't posted much on this board as I'm typically just reading but this topic regarding the cruise ships does concern me. There are so many valid points. I've been to Bonaire twice a year for 3 weeks at a time for the past 4 years simply because we love the island, we love that it's quiet and not the hustle and bustle of Aruba. Do I want it to stay the same? Of course, but that's my own selfish reasons. All visitors, divers and cruise ship passengers, need to be responsible when visiting. I've observed downtown a complete mess filled with litter from cruise ship passengers, the vast majority simply don't care for the island as some of us. I've spoken with vendors who are trying to sell to the cruise ship passengers and the response I get when I ask "So, how's everything going?" One vendor said "They don't buy anything! What is wrong? Please be honest with me." She even thinks these visitors aren't spending the money on Bonaire as some would expect and I can see why. Compare Aruba to Bonaire, are there multiple jewelers, perfume shops, high end fashion stores, casinos, etc? No. Bonaire isn't that type of island or at least not yet. Next we have the divers, some who are sooo intent on getting that perfect photo that they don't care if they are damaging the corals. Others simply don't realize but some blatantly don't care. That's sad, very sad! For Bonaire to prosper with both divers and cruise ship passengers, they need to always keep in mind that the reef is their main attraction and to protect it at all costs. If Bonaire is going to continue encouraging the cruise ships to visit, Bonaire needs to offer more to the cruise ship passengers to generate the revenue for the locals. The locals need to make a living and both types of tourism could possibly be supported. Although I personally think that divers are the bread and butter of Bonaire considering they spend more than the average cruise ship passenger. If the diving declined in Bonaire, so will many of the restaurants and local businesses. I personally think the cruise ships don't bring in the revenue to the locals and that it's not worth destroying the reefs for this type of tourism. It not worth destroying the reefs for any tourism for that matter. Bonaire, protect your environment as it's your predominant attraction! If Bonaire had beaches, nightlife, lots of shopping etc.. perhaps some cruise passengers might return but I sincerely doubt it. It's a nature destination that is quiet and low key, that is what makes Bonaire sooo special (in addition to alot more)! Also, everyone should pay the park fee, no exceptions should be allowed. If Bonaire became another Aruba, I certainly would not return again. Hopefully everything turns out ok as this island is one of the last paradises left in this world.
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By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #134) on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:05 pm: |
Hi Bonaireisgreat
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By Bonaireisgreat (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:38 pm: |
Hi Trevor,
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #220) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 7:43 am: |
Hi Bonaireisgreat,
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1931) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 7:50 am: |
Trevor..Being a long time visitor to Bonaire in response to your question, personally I dislike cruises. Have only been on 1 but they have no attraction for me.
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By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3556) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:07 am: |
Trevor, Having been in the travel industry for 22 years I can say this, most cruise ship clients choose a cruise because it's the biggest bang for the buck. It's a great value to have unlimited food and to go somewhere warm. Many don't care where they go actually the first time but then choose new cruises that offer new itineraries. I will guess a handful of the many thousand will come back as land passengers. IMHO after reading documents, seeing expose's on American TV and reading the various health alerts, they breed germs and are dirty vessels. I did 3 cruises from Boston to Bermuda simply because Mom wanted to go. I did not participate in any activities or shows. I walked on deck and looked for whales and sea creatures. Once we got to Bermuda we rented scooters and hardly saw the ship. I could not stand not having fresh air in my cabin. The gluttony was ridiculous.
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By Bonaireisgreat (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:21 am: |
Hi Menno,
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By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #136) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:30 am: |
The nearest we ever got to a "cruise" was a two day three night crossing from Patras in Greece to Ancona in Italy. We twiddled our thumbs waiting for the next meal time. Gluttony is indeed the word.
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #221) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:09 am: |
I just wanted to be friendly to the TCB once for a change..... I already do regret my posting since it is as if I am in favor of Cruise Ships -- I don't at all!!!
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1932) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 12:11 pm: |
Additionally for those folks contemplating a cruise, beware that the law of the high seas prevail. If a crime is committed on board (and I don't feel the need to go into specifics on this) the laws & subsequent investigations will probably turn out to be VERY different than what you'd anticipate in the U.S.
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #222) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 1:51 pm: |
Yep, 'you' will be keelhauled (don't know if this is proper English....) from the bow till the stern ....:-)))
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By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #7057) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 12:23 am: |
http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/1022/385959.html?1231586185
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By Andy & Dave Bartlett (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1109) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 4:26 am: |
The only type of cruise we have done is live aboard dive cruise. Those are nice because you can dive up to 5 times a day and they limit passengers to about 20-25, boats are small and usually only have 1 day or 1/2 day of shore excursion planned over a 7 night cruise. Not sure we could do a cruise on a really large boat.
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