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Local Items: 48% increase in Cruise Ship Passengers
Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives - 2008: 48% increase in Cruise Ship Passengers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #284) on Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 11:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.bonaireinsider.com/index.php/bonaireinsider/kralendijk_street_closures_during_2008_2009_cruise_ship_season/

I can only assume that this represents a 48% increase going into some official's pocket, and not a 48% increased contribution to the BMP or the sewage system. Too bad. I'm glad I'm 67 years old; I don't think Bonaire is going to survive many more years as a premier dive destination.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 11:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It is not fair or responsible to post a statement like that without anything to back it up. Allegations of corruption are serious and should not be just tossed around because you don't like other types of tourists.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #676) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Is the increase of revenue due to more cruise ships in port going toward anything to mitigate the impact caused by them?
Do cruise ship passengers using the marine park pay any fee?
If not, why not?
That seems a simple question that should have an equally simple answer.
There must be a lot of money involved in docking fees, etc.
What happens to all that money?
Is there any accountability?
Follow the money.......just like it's always been........to find the answer.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

In the long term nothing good is going to come out these cruise ship visits for Bonaire, its people, and their quality of life.

Some will make some fast bucks now, but eventually everyone will experience an increasing amount of problems related to both the apparent and the hidden stresses that the ships create.

In the meantime, for the benefit of the fish and the reef, it would be wise to place along various beach entrances some multi-lingual signs prohibiting the feeding of fish and the removal of coral, etc.

For example, the Plaza resort, which hosts many ship visitors, could use at least three such signs along its beach. Many ship visitors are feeding the fish their leftover snacks and lunch, while others are taking souvenirs from the reef. I saw one lady come out of the water by the Tipsy Seagull carrying a large conch shell, which she proceeded to wrap in her cruise ship towel.

It's too much to expect the young staff at the Plaza to police its long beach. However, if signs were visible on the beach, than other visitors and locals sitting on the beach could approach violators and politely point to the signs.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ****Tink**** (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #7849) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:32 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

grunt, no, the cruise ship passengers pay nothing in Marine Park Fees, even if they dive or snorkel.

ws2, I would recommend that if you, or anyone sees someone violating the marine park rules, they call the marine park and report the violation. This is the only way to track and move toward accountability.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #53) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:39 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

You can stop right here unless you can back up the information posted. BT will not go down this road without proper facts in place.
Thank You.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #677) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 12:39 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

At which point the "entitled" cruise ship passenger would "politely" ignore the signs.
All carrot and no stick.
You need promise of either reward or punishment for a given action, every single time, to accomplish desired results.
If there is no consequence for bad behavior there is no reason for change.
Human nature doesn't seem to change much.
Semper Fi

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14333) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 1:00 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I agree, someone is making a tone of bucks out of this, but, we have no facts to back it up. Please don't start a fire. We need the facts.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bonaire Beach Condo ) (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1793) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 6:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well, personally I think this is a very disturbing news statistic. Too many pod people IMHO. It certainly doesn't help the environment and that appears to be the direction the local gov is going.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #136) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 10:00 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The cruise ship traffic just compounds the sewage problem by more human excrement seeping onto the reef. The #1 priority of the government now should be saving the reef, which is the source of its tourist economy, especially now that there is so much damage from Omar. All those nitrites will make it more likely that the reef won't come back like it did after Lenny. But it seems like the bureaucracy just can't get it together to stop the sewage .

SOS Campaign To Save Bonaire's Reefs
SOSBonaireReef@gmail.com

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1076) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 11:17 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

They know the Marine Park is being adversely effected by hurricanes and sewage - the purpose of the cruise ships and the relentless drive to increase the cruise ship traffic as much as possible is to replace lost diver income anticipated down the road. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. I have almost exclusively dove Bonaire for the past eight years and am just as fanatical about Bonaire as the next BTer but I am finally capitulating and agreeing with Mel here - the days of Bonaire as a premier dive destination are numbered. In fact, me being exclusively a shore diver, I've got the ball rolling to get cavern and cave certified so I can be prepared to replace some of my twice yearly Bonaire trips in a couple of years time with cave trips to Mexico and Florida. Sad, but true.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ****Tink**** (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #7854) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 11:41 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

There is also the damage they do to the surrounding reefs when they come in, dock, and start their engines and leave.

I know for a fact, that divers are advised to not be in the water in the reefs near the ships when they start their engines to leave (and I don't mean right by the ship, one or two sites from the ships). The damage to the marine life surrounding the areas can't be good.

Last January, while diving South of Windsock, at 60F, we thought the ship was right on us...the noise was astounding and hurt my years. I actually had to take my fingers and try to plug them. What do the fish feel/sense? I know fish are VERY sensitive to sound waves.

I also know for a fact that the pod folks do NOT pay a marine park fee. They have said for years they would charge two bucks a head, but have never implemented it.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3500) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 2:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If you research the economic and eco environmental impact of cruise ship tourism to the islands, you will be enlightened and deeply concerned. I wish our country's politicians and tourism specialists sought out smaller boutique lines vs mega ships.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #285) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 4:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jerry, there are no Bonaire-based "proper facts" to present, so I think your demand could be viewed as either a red herring/diversionary action, or a way to prevent the subject from being discussed. The effort needs to be made to get some facts from Bonaire. The facts include careful surveys of possible degradation, finding out where all the money goes that these ships bring in, and why the passengers are not charged to use the reef, like everyone else.

There is a ton of material about cruise ships and environmental damage, but I'm not aware of even one study that says cruise ships *help* the environment. Bonaire led the world for decades in protecting their reefs. But they are decades behind in responding to their own sewage, and in addressing the known problems caused by cruise ships. You can go to the Caymans, to Cozumel, to any Caribbean destination that has been courting cruise ship passengers, and you find the *only* folks saying there is no problem are those who are making money off the passengers. All studies and observations show degradation and harm.

Charge each passenger $2, and in one year you will have plenty of money to actually monitor and assess whether the cruise ships are harming or helping the local environment. Unfortunately, we already know the answer (harm), because there is no reason Bonaire is different than any place else on this issue.

So, if the science is already available to inform the decisions, and is not being used, one must ask the sensitive political questions, such as where is all the incoming money going, and why is it not being used for protective measures?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14346) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 5:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Mel, YGM.

I agree 100% Mel. What I was trying to do was to keep the conversation moving in a positive manner, no name calling, bad info and alike.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John th'oldun (BonaireTalker - Post #49) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 9:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Pauline: How do you think the cruise ships contribute so much extra excrement? There are very few public toilets for them to use, and at any given time even fewer work, so most prefer to take the 5 minute walk back to the ship to relieve themselves rather than use the temporary facilities next to the customs office.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 10:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Being new here, I was wondering--

Was there any sort of public debate (and environmental impact studies) leading up to this daily cruise-ship visit thing ?

Was it a transparent process where Bonaireans were able to see their government debating an important issue, or was the decision decided upon by an elite group of politicians and businessmen behind closed doors ?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14352) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 10:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

ws2, good point.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #678) on Friday, December 5, 2008 - 11:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

ws2: As I do not possess any "true facts", I would wager that your supposition of "decision decided upon by an elite group of politicians and businessmen behind closed doors" would be spot on.
Could people who live and have to exist on island discover who these people are?
Probably.
If so, would names be named?
Maybe.
If I was the one making my living on island, would I name names?
I don't know; I'm not in that position.
Would you?

*Rant off*

I love Bonaire for my own selfish reasons and want it to be as I remember it in 1999. Not gonna happen, but that's my want.


 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #122) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 5:34 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Reply for Old John

"Pauline: How do you think the cruise ships contribute so much extra excrement? "

John
I just had to reply to your note - there have been several private videos (and posted on YouTube)made of trucks arriving at the docks and filling up and then driving to the middle of the island and then dumping their cargo where no one is supposed to notice. I am not spreading rumour but merely repeating a thread that has been repeated here on BT several times. The eco-impact of the cruise ships is currently hiding well...

Trevor

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 6:14 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

From this week's Bonaire Reporter !!

Effective immediately Bonaire will charge $0.75 head tax
to cruise ship passengers. On October 1, 2009, the start of next
year’s cruise ship season the tax will jump to $2 a head. An official
letter to the President of the FCCA (Florida and Caribbean Cruiseship
Association) by the Bonaire Government said the move was
forced by economics. The cruiseship passenger tax is a first for
Bonaire which charges international air travelers $35.88 (NAƒ
63.50) departure tax and hotel guests a room tax. The average Caribbean
and Latin American cruiseship head tax is $6 per person.
The proceeds of the tax will go towards the following, for example:
•Repair and improve the pier infrastructure (passenger amenities,
ISPS safety and security, etc.)
•Repair and extend the North pier to be able to dock a mega
class ship
•Add an extra mooring dolphin to accommodate mega class
ships
•Maintenance of the Bonaire National Marine Park
•Product development designed to give the cruise visitor a
unique experience while on Bonaire
•Promotion of the destination to cruise ship passengers.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #94) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 9:09 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

to get the facts correct ... the ONLY ship dumping their s--- on bonaire was the FREEWINDS .. and this ship is now banned from bonaire ...also"old John" is right on ... very few public toilets .. there were only 2 for the 2 mega ships this week...we should know - we are in the middle of the action .. in different capacities ... and you are hard pressed to find to find any facilities ...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #124) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 9:56 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

That could be excellent news. When and how did they get banned ? They are still showing in the Cruise Ship Timetable for 2009 but it has not been updated since October...

http://www.infobonaire.com/cruises.html



Trevor

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom C. (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #8756) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 10:03 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Pietri, thank you for your post.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #679) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:03 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The new cruise ship tax looks like it is going toward making Bonaire look like Cozumel.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #114) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:27 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Let us NOT see BON look like COZ. Never want to see that mess. Nothing good happens to the community at large when events develop in that direction for an island like BON.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:28 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

"Promotion of the destination to cruise ship passengers."

Are they going to promote Bonaire's abundant fish life and healthy reef ? Both will be diminishing with each cruise ship season. These relentless visits don't give nature enough time to recover.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #212) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 12:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I love the "product development designed to give the cruise visitor a unique experience while on Bonaire" and just wonder what that product might be....
It will indeed be an unique experience when you will be one of 3000 (or more!) enjoying it at the very same time.... day in day out....Bbbrrr....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3489) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 1:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Don't know how true this is but I was given to understand that a few of the cruise ships did not re up for next years season. Anyone have some feedback.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #95) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 4:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

yo Michael .. as in the thick of it i have some knowledge of this "rumor" it would be something to the effect that bonaire is not duty free and no good shopping because of this fact .. add in the EXTREMELY limited resources for the mass tourism -- how can we(meaning the few buses and licensed guides) make 6000 people happy ???i am already exhausted ... generally as a NATURE ORIENTED DESTINATION we are considered by the majority of the passengers as THE ISLAND THAT IS "SO HOT -- NO GOOD SHOPPING AND NOTHING TO DO HERE." As for your concern of the marketing .. we are telling it like it is .. or at least i am .. love nature .. no nitelife .. love yourself .. read a book sit and relax.. turn off the airco and listen to our more than 200 species of birds..get in the water and see our miracle reef .. .. then it's your destination - if not go to another island with a lot of American chain eat places.. casinos and lots of destructive water sports --amen .. please ..BT talkers .. keep the faith .. this will pass ....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #96) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 4:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

in regard to the marketing .. the focus is to encourage the passengers to consider bonaire as a stay over destination .. not to promote more ships .. i have had some incredible experiences with the people who recognize bonaire as what it is .. including a group of 8 who changed their dive trip to us from the great barrier and are now repeat visitors .. coming from the UK ..

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #121) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 5:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Good thoughts Pietri. Thanks.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #14364) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 5:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Pietri, I'm buying you a cold one next time I'm on Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By pat murphy (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1641) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 7:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

i read a newspaper article about 10 years ago that said that less than 2% of cruise ships visitors ever return to a destination as land-based visitors. maybe that statistic has changed in the meantime but i doubt it. most are content to continue cruising and using the ships and their hotels. granted, a few will come back and stay for a week or two but it appears the majority don't.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #97) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 8:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

no disagreement on my part .. the mouse wants to roar .. i am for myself trying not to get "in it" but bonaire is what it is .. a diver - nature orientated destination.. my input .. i am greatly disturbed by this mass indentation .. my opinion .. again -- relax -- bonaire is for very special people who understand what bonaire is .. a treasure ..

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sparty (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #178) on Saturday, December 6, 2008 - 11:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Regarding Dan's reference to COZ:

If the story that was told to me in COZ was factual, the crusie ships came, the cab industry grew and politically gained power. The end result was the construction of a new cruise ship pier over one of the best shallow reefs on COZ. Of course it was constructed conveniently far enough from town to require cab rides to and from.

Can you see a future cruise ship pier over angel city? Maybe a Carlos and Charlies on the beach where you can wait for your cab.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #286) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 12:29 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Pietri, no disrespect meant to your efforts and your passion, but I'm afraid I cannot relax as you suggest, because the economic forces that desire the cruise ships and developments (and cabs!) will not rest.



 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #138) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 9:22 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I second Mel's sentiments. We can't just rest on Bonaire's reputation as a "treasure" as the forces to destroy that reputation increase daily: cruise ship traffic, overfishing, sewage/sewage/sewage, etc.

For those of us who truly love Bonaire and her reefs, this is the time to take action and lobby government officials, especially the Dutch ministers in charge of the transition, to (1) put the sewage project on the "fast track" for 2009 and not wait until 2016 when the reefs are long gone, and (2) to make trucking of the sewage from the shoreline in the meantime mandatory.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan angier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #500) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 1:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

According to the post quoting the Bonaire Reporter...money from pod-people tax would go to the Marine Park for "maintenance of the reef". Can anyone tell me how any money spent "maintaining the reef" will positively and effectively impact the reef without addressing the sewage issue?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan angier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #501) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 1:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Adding to that thought...the sewage issue is not limited to pod-people impact. It is an issue for any human setting foot on the island who injests and excretes. The impact is real from all of us. However, with the influx of 3000+ people at a time, the impact is more obvious.

Is there anything we can do to lobby the government for sewage treatment and standardization of policy? Being visitors to the island does not give us any right to tell them what to do. That being said, it appears that the visitors have more concern about the environment than do the people who own/run the island. (I have no facts to back up that statement...just my thoughts.)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Dobson / Den Laman unit F (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #150) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 2:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Does anyone know if there is a charitable organization collecting funds toward the start of a proper sewage plant? If there is none, would the government be willing to start a collection for same...BT divers I'm sure would be more than willing to contribute, as would all divers coming through the Airport. In a short time we would find out if divers are willing to pay for the privilege of diving Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 2:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Peter, the money for the sewage project has been allocated through the European Union and Holland. But there have been so many delays--20 years to be exact--that political pressure must be put on those in the Dutch government who are responsible for implementation to (1) order mandatory trucking of the sewage from the shoreline and (2)hire the sanitation contractors now to begin work in 2009. FYI, the head of the Green Party in Holland has just endorsed this plan last week.

For BTs who want to help, (1)ask your resort/hotel, etc. if they are trucking their sewage NOW and (2) advise the Dutch ministers to "fast track" the sewage project before it is too late (marine biologists say at the current rates of nitrates that could come as soon as 2011). every voice raised for Bonaire's reefs helps. Speak up and out!

SOS Campaign To Save Bonaire's Reefs
SOSBonaireReef@gmail.com

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #98) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 6:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

enuf is enuf with this thread for me .. it is absolutely incredible to suggest that visitors have more concern than the locals ...and to keep on the idea that it the pod people - cruise ship visitors to me - i find the first description insulting .. are at fault.. land - overnite visitors in season are equal or greater in number -3000- not for a day but for a week!!! show me that this impact is less... .. yes bonaire needs to address this problem and the upcoming transition is going to be difficult .. let this little country get thru a status change .. and give us time to get really moving .. what bonaire is going thru in these next weeks is enormous.... it is very easy to criticize and demand .. let this rest please .. and in truth it will happen in bonaire time..if you can't understand and go with this country's flow .. please .. come here ..immigrate.. learn your languages and after 10 years vote..

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pietri Hausmann (BonaireTalker - Post #99) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 7:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

just had to add that on this little country's agenda is pension now for the elderly - here at 60 years - enforced retirement - at $$$ 280 per month ..children of school age starving as our average income is considerably less than $10.000 per year ..unemployment for our youth close to 40%... lack of school supplies .. roads that can not be repaired,, medical care inadequate and on and on for lack of funding .. an increase of over 5% in cost of living .. so understand .. bonaire has a lot on the plate .. so i hope you can understand this is a developing country and sewage treatment is yet one more issue to face and solve .. not the only one ...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #289) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 7:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Pietri, I'm sure it is extremely difficult in Bonaire; I can't even imagine. But it will be even harder without the income those 3000 divers a week bring. (Is that number right? I thought it was more like 60,000 a year...)

I don't know if other "overnight visitors" feel the way I do, but I would certainly pay more for a BMP tag -- a LOT more -- if I knew the money was going toward reef protection, whether that takes place by limiting cruise ships, dealing with the sewage, educating divers, whatever.

You plead for patience, for doing things on a Bonairian schedule. I don't think you have that luxury. Your reefs are beginning to die. Anyone who has been coming there the last ten years can see that. Compare the health of southern sites and Klein Bonaire sites to those in the central area. It is not global climate change that is your problem, it is local politics and demographics.

I truly believe Bonaire is in crisis, and should respond with something other than pleas for time. They've had the time, and they've pretty much used it up. Killing your reefs is a one-way trip.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1077) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 10:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Exactly. Mel hits the nail on the head. If funding is the problem, then killing the reef makes the funding problems worse by losing revenue through lost diver activity which has to make up the bulk of tourist dollars coming to the island. Logic based on length of diver's stays versus other types of tourist stays dictates that this is true. I challenge those on the island in the know to produce numbers that prove me wrong. Its not rocket science - its common sense. I can only conclude that many are in denial about the impending demise of Bonaire's reefs.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #110) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 10:49 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Aruba seems to be doing quite well without divers as their primary source of income. I personally do not much care for Aruba but the point is that Bonaire will do just fine without divers. We are very self-serving in wanting to protect the reefs and we need to at least acknowledge that.

You can label the cruise ship passengers as "pod people" or whatever other cutesy little name that you want however it does not diminish the fact that they spend money and generate jobs for the island.

It will be extremely tragic if something were to happen to Bonaire's reefs and our diving paradise, but we have to realize that in the grand scheme of things we are just a specific type of tourist and we are coming off sounding like self righteous foreigners who want to protect their playground without regard for the people who live there.

If there is more money in targeting other types of tourists then it is only logical that the people of Bonaire will pursue that avenue. At the end of the day they will go for whatever type of tourist they feel will improve their quality of life......... kind of like what we do here at home when we destroy our environment to create jobs and maintain or improve our standard of living.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1078) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

How, specifically, will Bonaire do better without divers? Do you have proof that the cruise traffic generates enough jobs and that cruisers spend enough money to trump the amount of money and jobs generated by divers? Basically you are saying that revenues generated by cruise ships would be able to replace the revenue lost by divers no longer visiting the island due to cruise ship traffic and damage to the reefs. Unless you can specifically provide proof of what you are saying, you're statements are merely your opinion, not based on fact and, with all due respect, do hold much water.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By K I V ~ Kobi in Virginia (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #9657) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The license plate really says it all; Diver's Paradise. Not bird watching paradise, kayaking paradise, dining paradise, pod people watching paradise or shopping paradise.
No disrespect to any of these other activities but none of them drew me to Bonaire that fateful day in 1994. I came to see the reef system.

We have come to Bonaire every year since then and the reef's present condition, compared to the late 90's, is truly night and day. I am sad about what I see now even post Lenny & Omar. We have seen bleaching and other phenomenon and also seen the demise of a lot of the dinner plate coral, orange barrel coral, purple tube sponges, staghorn & elkhorn coral. It really breaks my heart.

Sadly island time is the biggest threat to the reef right now. I have a friend who is employed by one of the large cruise ship lines.
She assures me that they call the passengers POD people; a term of endearment used in the industry behind the scenes. She also assures me that more than 40% of their podder's don't return as landlubbers to many of the islands they visit.

Given the state of the union, I can't imagine cruise business being that great as they are really hurting right now in the states. Where do the majority of ships that dock in BON hail from?

I agree that the demise of the reef is a one way ticket and it seems ticket sales are good!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #680) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Aruba does just fine without divers due in part to great sand beaches. It is known for the beaches and casinos, not so much for diving. Could those beaches be manufactured for the benefit of cruise passengers? I have read in the past that sand is available on the east side of Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sparty (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #179) on Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

RE building a beach for cruisers.

In time they can and will do almost anything for the cruise ships.

On Roatan, the cruise lines built a complete compound for the passengers. It is complete with gift shops, restaurant/bar, sand beach, planted coral, and penned in fish to snorkle with. They can now dock in Coxen Hole, walk to a van, spend the day at the compound, and basically never experience the real island at all. That way the cuise companies can keep almost all the money except for the wages paid the staff.

Some may like that situation, some not. It is just the way it works.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 12:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

"...we are coming off sounding like self righteous foreigners who want to protect their playground without regard for the people who live there."

"If there is more money in targeting other types of tourists then it is only logical that the people of Bonaire will pursue that avenue. At the end of the day they will go for whatever type of tourist they feel will improve their quality of life..."

**************

Fid, I've seen only genuine concern here for the place and its people.

Maximizing revenue is neither the only model for growth nor a good one.

Slow growth, with a well thought out General Development Plan created from lots of public input and debate, will serve Bonaire far better in the long run than by chasing fast dollars from an industry that's at odds with Bonaire's culture of being an eco friendly marine park.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bonaire Beach Condo ) (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1796) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 7:46 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Fid.. IMHO there is absolutely no way Bonaire can compete with Aruba on their turf. Just ain't going to happen. If you believe otherwise, I think you're really kidding yourself and ought to re assess your position.

Bonaire is, and always will be, a special niche destination. If you lose your niche (which is proudly proclaimed on all the license plates as Kobi indicates), the island will lose. End of story.

You will not replace the potential loss of diver revenue from cruise ships, agriculture, manufacturing or anything else they try to dream up. I really think it's that simple.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #125) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:00 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Please - Bonaire can not be a Roatan or Aruba. Like Fid I have no particular love of Aruba - like Miami more or less and not what we need on Bonaire. Also like Sparty we do not want a Roatan situation. I have done medical mission work on the Bay Islands since the early 90's - both Roatan and Guanaja. I did medical relief on Guanaja after Hurricane Mitch in 1998. I can say from an insider's perspective that Roatan as a result of the cruise ships is NOT the model anyone wants for Bonaire (I would hope). Check Bonaire Insider for the latest scoop on the public's perception of Bonaire as a diving destination. Scuba Diving Magazine apparently has Bonaire as #1 in 9 categories and is listed as the top dive destination in the Caribbean/Atlantic. This is the seventh consecutive year for Bonaire on this list. I can only trust it can stay that way.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #140) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:27 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Dan, I predict Bonaire will fall from #1 in many of those categories as there is more and more testimony that the reefs are dying, declining, whatever you want to call it. You can see from eyewitness testimony here from folks who have been coming for years. You can see it in Ramon De Leon's Aug. 1 statement about how Bonaire's lack of wastewater treatment is killing the reefs. Now is a critical time where resting on Bonaire's reputation from days past won't do because the contrary evidence is right in front of our masks.

Hopefully some of the Dutch politicians in charge on transition will see that the demise of the reef will destroy Bonaire's economy and make the island totally dependent on Holland. That should be motivation enough to solve the sewage problem NOW.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #290) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:28 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Dan, here's the scary part: the rest of the Caribbean is degrading even faster than Bonaire, for most of the same reasons. The Scuba Diving poll is a relative statement of reef health, not absolute. So Bonaire may spend quite some time as "better" than the other destinations, but meanwhile they are all sliding downhill. Bonaire has a chance to stabilize its reef condition, I hope they don't squander it.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #127) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:36 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I agree. Bonaire is in a unique position for many reasons to be able to continue and improve upon the environmental ecology which Capt. Don has long championed. You are right - let's us not squander that opportunity.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Iris (BonaireTalker - Post #17) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:41 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Pietri Hausmann; I can only say amen to your last 2 posts!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #291) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 11:44 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

There's an old joke, originally told about two hunters and a bear, but in our context often told about two scuba divers and a shark: "Can you swim faster than a shark?" "You don't have to swim faster than a shark, you only have to swim faster than your buddy."

I fear there are some in Bonaire that look at diver-tourist competition the same way: they don't have to protect their reefs, they only have to have reefs that are better than those in Cozumel/Roatan/Cayman/???.

What they don't realize is that it is only a temporary advantage, because once you get to zero (or 10% or whatever) you are all alike. To follow the analogy, after the shark eats your buddy, he has no problem getting to you next.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #128) on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 12:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Unfortunately in our society at large today, worldwide it seems, the attitude is along the line of "it is good enough". Instead of the attitude that something should be as good as it can possibly be. I see it in my kids and other people of my kid's generation, the offspring of the boomers. As I philosophize a bit more it seems my parents, the WWII generation put off many things in favor of work so when they retired they could enjoy life. That had some good points. My generation, the boomers, seem a bit more focused on enjoying the present BUT planning for the future - more balanced. Our kids seem a bit more desirous of living for today and not planning much for tomorrow since they don't have as positive an outlook an the future. Now I will shut up.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #112) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 12:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bonaire is not only targeting cruise ships for new sources of revenue. There are currently two major hotel complexes being built that I know of, the Hilton and Divi.

I would love it if Bonaire remained a quiet and uncomplicated island which is a paradise for us divers, but it won't. We are criticizing the Bonaire government and businesses for targeting new types of tourists because we do not want our playground to be spoiled and not because we have any interest or concern about the standard of living for the residents of Bonaire.

We seem to be using environmental issues as a means to an end to ensure our vacation destination is not destroyed instead of considering the economic environment and standard of living of the locals.

Protecting the environment is noble. Using that as a tool to keep our playground the same without concern for the economic environment or the standard of living of the locals is not so noble.

I do not want to see Bonaire go the route of so many other former paradises but I do not agree with protecting the island for our own selfish reasons without any regard for the local population either.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #293) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 1:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Fid:
Please do not include me in your "we" statements.

My concern is protection of the reef, not preserving a playground. I do not respect your characterization of me.

Do you think the Hilton and the Divi customers wish to have a dead reef? Maybe for one visit, then they won't return either.

When you tell me that ALL new tourist-garnering development will ensure protection of the reef, then this discussion will get interesting. Otherwise, it is the same old and depressing story that has been played out many other places, many other times. I thought Bonaire was smarter than that. Maybe not.

If the Hilton customers want to go to a place with nice sand beaches, they won't choose Bonaire. If they want to go to a place that is easy/cheap to get to, they won't choose Bonaire. If they want to go to a place with good shopping, they won't choose Bonaire. If they want to go to a place with good nightlife, they won't choose Bonaire. Why might they choose Bonaire? The reef. Not the salt piles or the cactus. Bonaire has to play its reef card, it has nothing else in its hand.

So don't permit any development that does not help the reef, or you have no future. I'm not worried about my playground, I've got lots of places I can go. How about you?

Rant over.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 1:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Mel - I like your comments. Why does our society always feel the need to grow bigger, make more money, double this or that in x time frame? Bigger is not always better. More money is not always better. More cruise ships, resorts are not always better and certainly not for Bonaire and similar places around the world.

Enhancing your (our, BON) strengths (REEF !) is what it is about. A healthy reef system supports the local economy for the longest and best future. Why would I fly to Aruba to enjoy Miami night life? Miami is cheaper and quicker to reach and is really different world and culture as well from the mainland US.

Preserve Bonaire for what it is, enhance and protect what is Bonaire. That is the brightest future for the island, the locals and for "us" regular visitors / expatriots.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1079) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 2:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I read an article on Ervin "Magic" Johnston yesterday. Turns out that Magic has developed into a very successfull business owner since his playing days in the NBA and his organization known as Magic Johnson's enterprises has been producing extrodinarly high levels of revenues and profits. When the interviewer asked to what he attributed his success, Magic responded with this and I quote: "I don't try to be everything to everyone. I know what my niche is; you have to find your niche and play to your strengths to be successful." That brought the content of this thread home to me. It would be wise for the powers that be to take a little advice from Magic and stick to what Bonaire does best. For the record Fid, over the last 8 years I've dropped at least $10,000 on Bonaire just by myself - in my mind that entitles me, not just the locals, to an opinion on this subject.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Antony Bond (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #465) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If I'm not mistaken, the above comments are coming from Westerners living in capitalist societies.

Having subscribed to a throw away culture, globalisation, obesity through junk food, and the systematic destruction of our respective countries, we have the temerity to "advise" others on how to conduct their affairs.

We also yearn to keep places like Bonaire quaint and rustic while the local population struggles to afford the basics. Most care more about a Wi-Fi connection or the availability of Gator Aid than the availability of school or medical supplies for the locals.

Back home, we Westerners are cruising in our flash cars, buying expensive consumer goods and having disposable income enough to jet around the world while local Bonarians work for a few dollars an hour.

Bonaire began it's downfall when the first tourist arrived. From that moment on, Bonaire was in decline and it's people corrupted. As more people come (Divers or cruisers) it's fragile fabric will be destroyed as the demand for water, electricity, consumer goods and entertainment grows.

It is crass and ignorant to play one tourist against another. Both have their benefits, both shoulder the blame.

When the reefs are dead and diving is no longer attractive, I doubt that many of the lovers of Bonaire who come to dive will return just to support the economy. They will no doubt move to the next Divers Paradise.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #142) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Fid, protecting the environment on Bonaire and economic sustainability are one and the same. As Mel so clearly illustrates, the reef is Bonaire's main economic asset. Without the reef, divers and snorkelers will not spend big bucks to fly down here when they can find the same degraded reefs for cheaper in the Virgin Island, the Bahamas, etc.

And Anthony I guess you are right, Bonaire officials and residents and citizens have every right to be as stupid as we have been about our environment and to destroy it because they perceive that it belongs to them. But if that happens they will only be hurting the livelihood of every person who makes a living off the dive tourism here and making Holland take responsibility for an entire island without a viable economy.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Gould*** (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1790) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Antony, I hate to agree with you, but I think your words speak the TRUTH!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bonaire Beach Condo ) (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1797) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 5:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

****Bonaire began it's downfall when the first tourist arrived*****

Antony: I think you're being a bit overly cynical with that statement. Economic development is a good thing if done properly. Bonaire's tourist industry has benefited many many people & has materially increased the standard of living of many folks on the island.

But that's just my 2 cents worth.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #213) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Amen Anthony, Amen!

Vince; Sort of true in my eye's. Most who benefit are import "locals" like myself.....

I guess the future will tell who really loves Bonaire....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Detlef SCHWAGER (BonaireTalker - Post #73) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I regret, Antony You are right.
Detlef

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1080) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I may be crass and arrogant (I'm used to liberals calling me that by the way so don't think you're unique using that holier than stuff on me Anthony) but the whole point that is being made is that the locals would be better off financially with a healthy reef and a diver's paradise than they would be with an unhealthy reef and a half ass divers paradise supplemented by cruise ships. Again, show me the numbers that prove me wrong and I'll gladly relent and tell you how right you are.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jolly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #143) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 7:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

There is a lot of truth in everyone's comments, but let me suggest that the "downfall" may have started centuries ago when the first European(s)arrived in the Caribbean area. Perhaps the native cultures should have never been disturbed. The same could be said for North America of course, and the entirety of the Americas. What is necessary is to make the most of what is there now for generations to come - because what happens in BON, the Caribbean and many other places affects the world. No "one" is an island any longer, for better or worse. The will end my penny's worth.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sparty (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #181) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 7:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

This is an excellent opportunity for me to present my pet theory.

There is always a discussion or article about some crisis or problem that needs attention such as: Our highways are too crowded, we have water shortages, too much air pollution, need more landfills, need bigger sewage systems, and etc.

No one ever addresses the real problem. Too many people. Reasonable population controls would eliminate many if not all the other problems.

Unfortunately many cultures/religions oppose this.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Gould*** (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1791) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 9:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

AAH Sparty, please don't take yourself out! We like you, and all the good information you pass along... ;-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barton B (BonaireTalker - Post #87) on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 11:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sparty, I 100% agree with you!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #8) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 12:11 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

quote: "If I'm not mistaken, the above comments are coming from Westerners living in capitalist societies. Having subscribed to a throw away culture, globalisation, obesity through junk food, and the systematic destruction of our respective countries, we have the temerity to "advise" others on how to conduct their affairs."

************************

Antony, I think you're a little confused.

Your comment, if anything, is more relevant to cruise ship tourists, and those tourists whom find it hard to fathom visiting a place that doesn't have Starbucks, Casinos, Jet Skis, Shark Feeding, etc. Their motto is "more is not enough". From my cursory assessment, I would say that about 90% of the cruise ship passengers fit this mold. And most of them couldn't even locate on a world map where it is that they've been cruising.

The comments made on this thread have come from an entirely different sort of tourist; one that has visited Bonaire repeatedly, one that is more likely to be educated and environmentally sensitive, and, most importantly, one that has made the least demands and created the least pressure on Bonaire's landscape and people.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fid Chinoy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #115) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 8:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So now you have concluded that cruise ship passengers are stupid, lost, wastefull and generally environmentally unfriendly while you are intelligent, know your geography and are environmentally friendly?

The fact that we (excluding Mel of course) have all visited Bonaire multiple times and contributed to the construction of houses, pollution from the vehicles that we rent, garbage in the landfill and sewage now means nothing?

ws2, I feel so honoured to be in the presence of someone who travels majically without using any fuel and recycles the crap that spews from their holes. You are such a superior being.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By K I V ~ Kobi in Virginia (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #9685) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 9:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wow, Fid, what just spewed from the hole underneath your nose & out through your fingers was wasteful of time, unwise and unfriendly.
Personal attacks only begit more attacks. Let's stay on topic and offer up productive conversation!

I'm an annual BON tourist and worried about what we all love.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ws2 (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 10:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think we're all concerned about Bonaire and its future.

But there's few places left in the world like Bonaire, and, in that context, the Bonaireans have inherited a tremendous responsibility as caretakers of the island and its reef.

To the extent that they abdicate their caretaking responsibility by succumbing to fast and knowingly messy development schemes, then some continual pressure from concerned outsiders is a very good thing.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mel Briscoe (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #294) on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 11:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Look folks, let's not get sidetracked. It all comes down to money. No money, Bonaire dies. The quick buck is potentially available: big cruise ships and hotels, casinos, compete with Aruba, etc. But that quick buck withers if the customers don't come. The stable buck is to play Bonaire's niche role: great reefs, easy diving. The key is to get some of the quick bucks without damaging the stable buck. I do not see that balance occurring.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By a retired Grunt, back in May (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #683) on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 1:13 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Mel: Ca Ching!!! You have hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1081) on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 9:11 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well said Mel.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Antony Bond (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #466) on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 1:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

ws2.

You say; "The Bonaireans have inherited a tremendous responsibility as caretakers of the island and its reef". That is a pretty pious view.

What you are really saying to the Bonaireans is "I have ruined my own country through greed, avarice and consumerism but I expect you to live like a pauper so that I can visit once a year and ruin your island too".

As Fid says, the damage to the environment & infrastructure is the responsibility of all those who visit. The cruisers come for one day, wander around, buy some souvenirs and go home. Vacationers arrive by plane, hire trucks, trample the reefs, add to the output of waste and electricity and are responsible for the expansion of property development.

The only way that Bonaire will remain as it is, is if everyone stayed away. As that is not going to happen, don't blame those who wish to profit from tourists, in whatever form they take.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bonaireisgreat (BonaireTalker - Post #40) on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 9:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I haven't posted much on this board as I'm typically just reading but this topic regarding the cruise ships does concern me. There are so many valid points. I've been to Bonaire twice a year for 3 weeks at a time for the past 4 years simply because we love the island, we love that it's quiet and not the hustle and bustle of Aruba. Do I want it to stay the same? Of course, but that's my own selfish reasons. All visitors, divers and cruise ship passengers, need to be responsible when visiting. I've observed downtown a complete mess filled with litter from cruise ship passengers, the vast majority simply don't care for the island as some of us. I've spoken with vendors who are trying to sell to the cruise ship passengers and the response I get when I ask "So, how's everything going?" One vendor said "They don't buy anything! What is wrong? Please be honest with me." She even thinks these visitors aren't spending the money on Bonaire as some would expect and I can see why. Compare Aruba to Bonaire, are there multiple jewelers, perfume shops, high end fashion stores, casinos, etc? No. Bonaire isn't that type of island or at least not yet. Next we have the divers, some who are sooo intent on getting that perfect photo that they don't care if they are damaging the corals. Others simply don't realize but some blatantly don't care. That's sad, very sad! For Bonaire to prosper with both divers and cruise ship passengers, they need to always keep in mind that the reef is their main attraction and to protect it at all costs. If Bonaire is going to continue encouraging the cruise ships to visit, Bonaire needs to offer more to the cruise ship passengers to generate the revenue for the locals. The locals need to make a living and both types of tourism could possibly be supported. Although I personally think that divers are the bread and butter of Bonaire considering they spend more than the average cruise ship passenger. If the diving declined in Bonaire, so will many of the restaurants and local businesses. I personally think the cruise ships don't bring in the revenue to the locals and that it's not worth destroying the reefs for this type of tourism. It not worth destroying the reefs for any tourism for that matter. Bonaire, protect your environment as it's your predominant attraction! If Bonaire had beaches, nightlife, lots of shopping etc.. perhaps some cruise passengers might return but I sincerely doubt it. It's a nature destination that is quiet and low key, that is what makes Bonaire sooo special (in addition to alot more)! Also, everyone should pay the park fee, no exceptions should be allowed. If Bonaire became another Aruba, I certainly would not return again. Hopefully everything turns out ok as this island is one of the last paradises left in this world.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #134) on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Bonaireisgreat

I have read from a distance all of the debate and emotions on the subject of Cruise Ships and your note triggered a thought (thank you for that)

The thought is
WILL POD PEOPLE COME BACK TO BONAIRE FOR A VACATION ???

I answer with a question (apologies Rosenkratz & Guildenstern)
HOW MANY BTers GO ON CRUISES ?

Trevor

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bonaireisgreat (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Trevor,
My husband and I did take a 2 week cruise on Princess and did choose the cruise for the main reason to get myself certified for diving in warmer waters:-) Next, the choice was also based upon the fact that the ship (Princess) was stopping in Bonaire and we could dive. Keep in mind, we were in Bonaire the year prior for our honeymoon after we got married in Aruba. Why Bonaire? Well..it was someplace new, close to Aruba (we had to return back to get our belongings), and it was a quiet place. After a wedding that lasted a week, we needed R&R!!

So our initial choice to visit Bonaire was not the result of the cruise ship but rather it seemed like a nice island, quiet and just what we were looking for. The cruise stop made us choose that itinerary because Bonaire is one of the top dive locations in the world plus we've already been there. Given the choice at the time we disembarked the cruise ship, we'd rather have just stayed in Bonaire the entire time:-) Hence, our 6 weeks in Bonaire a year:-)

The only way we'd cruise again is strictly based upon diving sites (they'd have to be very good) or to check out a region of the world to get a taste of what it's like before committing 1-3 weeks of vacation.

In our opinion, Bonaire is a home run! Diving, great people (both locals and divers), quiet and relaxing.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #220) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 7:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Bonaireisgreat,
See here, TCB seems to be right after all! Some cruisers come back as stay-overs, so prepare for more cruisers because, as proven, that will bring more stay-overs.....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1931) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 7:50 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Trevor..Being a long time visitor to Bonaire in response to your question, personally I dislike cruises. Have only been on 1 but they have no attraction for me.

Seems to me the cruisers just gorge themselves on food, trample all over the stop of the day, wear funny clothes and in general portray the text book case of the ugly American. Additionally they are a breeding ground for pathogenic organisms.

I freely admit I am biased by my opinions.
I for one would certainly like to see the cruise ship traffic diminish on Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3556) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:07 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Trevor, Having been in the travel industry for 22 years I can say this, most cruise ship clients choose a cruise because it's the biggest bang for the buck. It's a great value to have unlimited food and to go somewhere warm. Many don't care where they go actually the first time but then choose new cruises that offer new itineraries. I will guess a handful of the many thousand will come back as land passengers. IMHO after reading documents, seeing expose's on American TV and reading the various health alerts, they breed germs and are dirty vessels. I did 3 cruises from Boston to Bermuda simply because Mom wanted to go. I did not participate in any activities or shows. I walked on deck and looked for whales and sea creatures. Once we got to Bermuda we rented scooters and hardly saw the ship. I could not stand not having fresh air in my cabin. The gluttony was ridiculous.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bonaireisgreat (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Menno,

As I stated in my post, "Keep in mind, we were in Bonaire the year prior for our honeymoon after we got married in Aruba."

The cruise ship was not our first time to Bonaire. After our initial visit, I wanted to get certified to dive in Bonaire on a dive trip and I don't like cold water. Hence, the cruise. That particular cruise attracted us because my ultimate goal was to dive Bonaire. It gave me the chance to do it rather soon:-)

So TCB isn't necessarily right about cruisers. The divers should be and continue to be the main focus in conjunction with protecting the reefs.


I might add that we dive at the Divi alot. There have been some newer divers who got disoriented while a ship was leaving as the visibility drops. In some instances, quite a bit. Between the noise and the poor vis it does present a safety issue in my opinion. Particularly for newer divers or those not expecting these conditions. While the Divi does its best to advise everyone but some are still unaware.

Does TCB want to risk a life? It's theoretically possible. Is it "fair" that a diver who has spent thousands of dollars in vacation costs, taxes, park fees, and who supports the local businesses to alter their vacation around the cruisers? Many do because they are forced to.

Vince hit it right on the money about the cruisers, I totally agree with him. Keep in mind, they would rather go back to the ship to eat before they spend money in town for food. Will they drink? Eat ice cream? Sure. But that's the extent of that. TCB is jeopordizing a solid and established tourist industry based on diving to attract cruisers. The more cruisers, the less divers, and then tourism will be in peril. Even Aruba can't survive off of cruisers only. Is it worth it TCB?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Hibdige, Lac Bay Villa (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #136) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:30 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The nearest we ever got to a "cruise" was a two day three night crossing from Patras in Greece to Ancona in Italy. We twiddled our thumbs waiting for the next meal time. Gluttony is indeed the word.


Trevor

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #221) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:09 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just wanted to be friendly to the TCB once for a change..... I already do regret my posting since it is as if I am in favor of Cruise Ships -- I don't at all!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1932) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 12:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Additionally for those folks contemplating a cruise, beware that the law of the high seas prevail. If a crime is committed on board (and I don't feel the need to go into specifics on this) the laws & subsequent investigations will probably turn out to be VERY different than what you'd anticipate in the U.S.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #222) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 1:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Yep, 'you' will be keelhauled (don't know if this is proper English....) from the bow till the stern ....:-)))

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #7057) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 12:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/1022/385959.html?1231586185

Here are a few photos of the behemuths (sp?). I, for one, would love for them never to return to Bonaire's shores. They simply dwarf the island and let the pod peeps roam around aimlessly all day long. Guess you can tell I'm not a fan of the cruise ships on Bonaire. cb

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy & Dave Bartlett (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1109) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 4:26 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The only type of cruise we have done is live aboard dive cruise. Those are nice because you can dive up to 5 times a day and they limit passengers to about 20-25, boats are small and usually only have 1 day or 1/2 day of shore excursion planned over a 7 night cruise. Not sure we could do a cruise on a really large boat.

Andy

 


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