By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 11:27 am: |
Hi, All.
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2143) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 11:36 am: |
Take a boat.
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By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1753) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 11:51 am: |
While many entries are difficult, there are also many that are not so difficult. I would prefer to not change nature myself.
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By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 11:55 am: |
Ah... the flaming begins less than 10 minutes after I asked the question.
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By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:00 pm: |
Hi, Denise.
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2144) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:05 pm: |
Bonaire is not the USA, where everything has been boiled down to a sickening bland puddle of pablum in the interest of "keeping everyone safe".
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By Mark E. Anderson (BonaireTalker - Post #31) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:14 pm: |
My wife has slipped on some algae covered concrete and really banged her leg up. But she realized it was her own fault for not being more careful. I have also had friends fall down from the surf but they realize it comes with the turf. I've slipped and fell on wet marble and tile usually after a few Balashi's. Sometimes you just have to be RESPONSIBLE for yourself.
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By Geoffrey (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #175) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:20 pm: |
Cliff,
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By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #16) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:52 pm: |
I don't really have a "concept" - just a simple question... Is there anything that can be done to make some shore dive sites safer for entry/exit?
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By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos ) (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1304) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:52 pm: |
Cliff..Welcome, but really I don't think you're going to find too many sympathizers in your corner on this one. The Marine Park rules are extremely stringent now when it comes to changing the natural contours of anything in or near the water.
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By Brian Back in March (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3583) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 1:02 pm: |
Cliff
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By seb (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3279) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 1:22 pm: |
Cliff, why not ask the Marine Park instead of these hosers and report back to us?
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By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1754) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 1:37 pm: |
We did find Shore Diving Made Easy very helpful in finding the easiest way to enter many sites. It also helped us to rule out a few sites too. Thanks for bringing that up Brian.
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By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1755) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 1:37 pm: |
Cliff, nice pictures :-)
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By Grunt, with 69 days to go (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #573) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 3:58 pm: |
Yes, there are things that can be done, but YOU have to do them. Become stronger so as to be able to handle the weight that comes with scuba gear. Take advanced scuba courses to become a better diver. When you look at a shore entry site, check it out by snorkeling it first. This will give you an accurate idea of what the underwater challenges are. It you have a problem entering and exiting with no scuba gear on, that site is probably not for you. This is meant in a positive way. More knowledge will give you more power.
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By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #17) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 4:50 pm: |
Thanks, Denise.
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By Geoffrey (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #176) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 5:16 pm: |
Cliff, if you think this is being attacked, you should read more of the posts on this and on other boards.
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2145) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 5:26 pm: |
The fact is, nature does not acquiesce to our desires. Perhaps clearing a path is reasonable in a lake or a quarry, but anyone who's spent any time at the seashore knows that anything loose is going to roll right into that vacated area with the next good wave. Your ideas really have no basis in reality, when it comes to that.
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By Ron Gould (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1398) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 6:24 pm: |
Cliff, It is very simple! The answer to your question is NO!
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By Mark E. Anderson (BonaireTalker - Post #32) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 6:37 pm: |
We are very lucky it is as easy as it is.
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By Liz .... back to Bon 5/10 (BonaireTalker - Post #32) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 6:45 pm: |
Good grief, Susan....we all get what you are saying. There really is no need to keep beating Cliff up for his suggestion. In fact, I'm not sure he actually asked anyone else to assume responsibility for his safety. He just brought up a suggestion he thought was a good idea.
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By Jim Peters (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 7:04 pm: |
You people should be ashamed of yourselves!
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By bob...no april showers) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2537) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 7:06 pm: |
lots of discussion about the great shore diving in bonaire...not to much about falling down though;)
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By Grunt, with 65 days to go (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #575) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 7:37 pm: |
I am not ashamed of my original response, and think my suggestions were and are valid. As the old saying goes "You pay your dollar and takes your chances".I get the occasional scrape while shore diving and take it a potential but acceptable risk. I also carry a pint bottle of white Heinz vinegar in the truck to douse said scrape immediately upon exit. One really bad infection will make the sting seem an OK alternative Not to make light of the original question but Bonaire is not Disneyland, nor do people want it to be. They are two different vacation destinations and should remain that way.
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By Geoffrey (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #177) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 8:54 pm: |
"holier than thou crowd" ... that's pretty amazing as an accusation when people get so "holier than thou", they accuse others of being "holier than though" with someone who doesn't share their idea of "holy". I just like ridiculing ideas I think are incredibly silly, for no other reason than I like it.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #996) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 9:01 pm: |
My concern is that, along with cruise ships, this is the kind of thing that is threatening to turn Bonaire into a glorified water park instead of a haven for independent shore divers who welcome the adventure of getting in and out of dive sites in their natural state; for me, its part of the feeling of accomplishment I get when I successfully complete a shore dive from start to finish without being herded around by a Dive Master. My opinion: leave the shore dive sites in their natural state, take a boat and/or stick to the resort dives.
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2146) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 9:36 pm: |
Liz,
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By Barry Gassert (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #508) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 9:46 pm: |
And the gods and goddesses have spoken, Cliff. So there....
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By Kobi in Virginia***Trip in May (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4690) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 10:13 pm: |
Cliff,
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By Alex (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #428) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 3:59 am: |
It's simple: Bonaire's waters are a Marine Park, not a Tourist Park - it's not there for our convenience, but to protect the marine life. So we shouldn't mess with it, there are enough problems already. There are enough sites with easy entry. When there's one I don't think is safe, I don't go there.
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By MadMan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #168) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 4:23 am: |
Cliff
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #997) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 7:53 am: |
Barry: It breaks my heart to see that you were offended by my opinion.... I love the way you insult people and then put a smiley face at the end like you're really just this great human being taking on all the bad types all by yourself. Your so clever and brave!!
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By Barry Gassert (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #509) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 8:36 am: |
I wasn't offended by your opinion Marcus. I actually agree with it - all of it. I didn't see it necessary to include the ships. That's all.
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By Barry Gassert (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #510) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 8:38 am: |
Opps. Sorry Cliff. I said Erik and meant you.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #998) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 9:50 am: |
.... and you didn't lambast those of us who didn't agree with Cliff on this issue? Give me break there smiley, uh, I mean Barry.
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By Brian Back in March (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3584) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:00 am: |
The suggestion that having easy access through a channel would take pressure off the shallow areas of the reef from divers does have some merit. Although cutting a passage has been done in the past, this would still cause damage and cause sediment pollution and could be blocked by a storm.
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2147) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:00 am: |
I have no idea why you took offense at me calling my horse an idiot - he's afraid of a llama (after being pastured nearby it without taking notice for over a year)
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By Brian Back in March (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3585) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:06 am: |
Hi Susan
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2148) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:10 am: |
Hey Brian! How's Sue? Did you hear whether you've won the photo contest yet?
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By Brian Back in March (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3586) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:25 am: |
Hi Susan
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By Alex (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #429) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:38 am: |
Another danger of making easier entry/exit points could be that less experienced divers/snorkelers would go where they normally wouldn't have gone before. This would cause more pressure on the reef with the added risk of people with less marine knowledge damaging the coral. I think there are enough easy entries as it is.
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By Brian Back in March (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3587) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:43 am: |
Alex, I don't agree that safety would be worse than now, my view is that safety would improve, depending on the access available. OK the Trebuchet entry might not be for those who are risk averse!!
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By Alex (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #430) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:50 am: |
Brian, probably my bad English caused a confusion? I'm not talking about safety for divers/snorkelers here, I'm talking about danger to the reef by making things easier for people to get in and out of the water.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #741) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 11:09 am: |
I am, let us just say, less nimble than a mountain goat.
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By Brian Back in March (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3588) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 11:24 am: |
Randy
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By Tad Jones (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 11:35 am: |
Susan is exactly right!
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By Barry Gassert (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #513) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 1:47 pm: |
Marcus, if you re-read my posts, you'll see that I did agree with what was said. It was the tone at which it was stated that I disagreed with.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #999) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 3:04 pm: |
Agree, disagree it doesn't matter Barry. The point is you took the same tone you have a problem with by referring to other posters as "Gods and Goddesses." This was clearly meant to be derogatory. The comment you made about the cruise ships was clearly meant to be derogatory and was clearly aimed at me. This is getting old. No doubt one thing is true, as you stated above, this thread will probably end with you cause unless someone else has something to say to you I am done as of now. Point made.
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By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #18) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 4:46 pm: |
As the person who started this topic, maybe it would be appropriate for me to try to put it to rest...
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By Freddie {Moderator} (Moderator - Post #483) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 5:05 pm: |
Thank you Cliff for being patient to say the least.
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By BOOM! and then there was Tara (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6191) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 7:30 pm: |
Cum by ya, My Lord, cum by ya.....
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By I shoulda been a fish! (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #206) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:04 pm: |
I just go and appreciate all that Bonaire has to offer, rugged shoreline and everything. I wouldnt change a thing. There are lots of dives that are easy entries, save the ones that arent to those that are willing to do it! I always come back with a trophy bruise or two and I love it!
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By Lloyd Haskell (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #129) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 12:28 am: |
I suggest the divers rule , dive within your limits , this rule starts as soon as your gear is on and you are approaching your entry . I found even the hardest entrys such as karpata , nukove , taylor made , were all easily done under decent conditions . Susan Porters book shore diving bonaire will help you more than putting walkways in the sea .She has all the entrys clearly laid out and they work ! After 20 years of diving vancouver island with a drysuit and enough lead to sink a small dinghy , bonaire was like a walk in the park . Know your limits and obey them .
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By Deborah Bennett (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #125) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 6:55 am: |
A 3' wide patch of concrete with a gentle slope would not harm any entrance, it should help save entrances as everyone would enter at the same spot, rather than trampling the whole shorefront. I'm amazed that there are so many folks that think they are not going to slip and have a nasty fall. Or that you won't fall if you're careful. I guess they just haven't lived long enough.
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By Walt III - www.RecTekScuba.com (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #374) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 7:44 am: |
Do you have any IDEA how slippery concrete gets when covered with algae. Oh add a slope to that slippery concrete and we can sell tickets.
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By seb (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3280) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 8:20 am: |
Ignoring all the eco objections, who would have a financial incentive to improve the ease of shore diving entries?
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2149) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 9:05 am: |
Walt, great point - though I find it amazing that anyone would even have to make it. I guess the fact that you DID need to make it, and that you warn people on the WindJammer dive and they nevertheless still go straight for the concrete, just goes to show that common sense isn't that common...
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By Mickey McCarthy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #529) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 10:14 am: |
Meanwhile I think it's safe to say that a little "smoothing" was done under the water when the ramp at Andrea I was built. And at Karpata & Nukove years ago.
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By diver dave (BonaireTalker - Post #20) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 3:09 pm: |
I also returned from Bonaire with plenty of damaged knuckles. Most, if not all, due to my lack of experience at shore diving. Once I copied my dive bud's: stop in mid-chest deep water, get positive, de-fin while semi-floating, get negative and walk in, I had far less issues. We did pass on some spots due to wave action.
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By Don Freeman (BonaireTalker - Post #26) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 9:57 pm: |
When I read Cliff's question I immediately thought back to another poster who asked the same question a few months ago. He got blasted too. Personally, I wouldn't want ANYTHING to be done to Bonaires dive sites to make exit/entry easier. Use common sense, dive within your limits, and be careful. Be thankful that Bonaire is still the finest diving (in my humble opinion ) in the Caribbean and enjoy it while we can. The cruise ships will definately ruin it for all of us eventually.
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By Erik L. Enger (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 12:54 am: |
On my first dive on Bonaire at The Lake in 2004 when I was a relative newbie there was ironshore (I believe) and some decent wave action and I recall getting a couple of minor scrapes. By my third dive I had adjusted and got my fins straps ready, learned where to wade to before putting on my fins and got them on quickly. I had no problems whatsoever over the ensuing two weeks of 30+ dives. The same could be said for the rest of of the folks I was with.
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By Alex (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #435) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 6:50 am: |
Don, I remember a post a year or so ago from someone who wanted us all to take garden shears with us to Bonaire (complete with suggestions to which type was convenient) to cut the vegetation near sites, with the same reason: to make the dive sites more accessible. I seem to remember his idea originated from his complaint that his (rental) car got scratched at Oil Slick, when he wanted to park right next to the platform, instead of having to walk a few feet extra from the parking area...
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By Brian Back in March (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3590) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 7:13 am: |
Alex
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By Fid Chinoy (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:34 am: |
There is just something inherently wrong with going to a foreign country and then suggesting how they should do things. I am certainly not claiming to be innocent of doing that myself. We all do it, but that does not make it right.
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By Alex (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #436) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:35 am: |
Thanks for the link, Brian, it was fun reading through that again.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #1000) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 3:39 pm: |
Agreed Alex. It was fun reading through that thread again. It reminded me that I still haven't dove Petrie's Pillar yet. Gotta get on that!
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By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #393) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 6:35 pm: |
Walt III makes a great point: any concrete pad or steps become covered in algae. Yes I remember the BOPEC access (pre diving restrictions there) and you could really slip quite easily on the boat ramp.
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By Leigh (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 8:25 pm: |
I have read Bonaire Talk faithfully for a long time. Although I have never been a poster, I have had many discussions with my husband (and others) regarding a variety of topics that appear on this board. We have been to Bonaire many times, and are now fortunate to be able to stay for over a month each year.
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By Tad Jones (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #153) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 8:49 pm: |
Good point Diane...!!
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By Freddie (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #9682) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 9:07 pm: |
Hey thats not fair!!! I have been good on this thread
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1001) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 9:11 pm: |
Your good on every thread Freddie. I've been bad on this thread. Although I stand by my position on the shore dive entry issue, I reckon I could have toned it down a little. My bad.
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By Freddie (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #9683) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 9:16 pm: |
Ahhhh Thanks Marcus I appreciate that.. and the polo ponies will eat tonight because of those words..
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By BOOM! and then there was Tara (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6208) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 9:16 pm: |
Great first post Leigh! BT is a wealth of information that sometimes gets trapped in petty arguments. We'll just call it passion
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By Kobi in Virginia***Trip in May (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4718) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 9:24 pm: |
No fair; below the belt is worth a slap
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By Kobi in Virginia***Trip in May (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4719) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 9:33 pm: |
Leigh,
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By Barry Gassert (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #516) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 11:50 pm: |
Leigh, Wonderful post.
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By seb (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3282) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:39 am: |
Could we get back to the part where someone comes and paints my house?
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2150) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 9:23 am: |
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By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #19) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:01 am: |
Susan,
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By Freddie {Moderator} (Moderator - Post #484) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:28 am: |
OK perhaps it is almost time to close this thread before it gets REALLY nasty, and think I see that coming.. Simma down Simma down I don't want to close it unless I have to
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By Marilyn M. (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #366) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:32 am: |
CLiff and Leigh, thank you. You have phrased my thoughts so beautifully. I have been extremely wary of posting even a gently delivered negative truth about my stay in Bonaire as I just do not want to deal with the outcry. I have become much more of a lurker. Disagreement, yes, intense verbal/written tap dancing on your head, no.
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By ModCynde (Moderator - Post #625) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:38 am: |
Take Freddie's advise and simma down now, simma down (as Sherry Otery would say).
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By Tad Jones (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #154) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:57 am: |
Cliff and Susan,
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By cliff Batson (BonaireTalker - Post #20) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:05 pm: |
You're right, Tad. Certain responses touched a nerve and I bit my tongue as long as I could.
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By Innkeeper Linda...25 days 'til ahhhhhh (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1312) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:28 pm: |
Leigh,
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By Tad Jones (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #155) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:29 pm: |
Don't let it be your last post on the board though!!
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By Tad Jones (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #156) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 1:11 pm: |
Linda,
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By Barbara "CB" Gibson (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1581) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 1:43 pm: |
I have to say that Linda has been posting here for years, and more than holds her own as a positive contributor. If there are times when she is too busy to do anything but lurk, I'm still glad to know that she's around...
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By Susan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2151) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 2:31 pm: |
Why do people always want to make things more convenient FOR THEM??? I don't even think I need to give examples of some of the more hazardous sites. If you shore dive, you know what I'm talking about.
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By Leigh (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 2:43 pm: |
My second and most likely final post on BT.....because, in the final outcome, I really believe that old saying....NICE MATTERS.
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By **Patrick who herds sharks on Bonaire** (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2637) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 3:14 pm: |
Just my 2 cents on this matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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By **PegiSue Slap** (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3558) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 3:17 pm: |
One bad apple....
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By Tad Jones (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #157) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 3:36 pm: |
Let's get out of here Peg!! Freddie.......are you going to let this continue??
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By Freddie {Moderator} (Moderator - Post #485) on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 4:16 pm: |
Nope too many posts on this thread this makes 94 time to close it if you want to continue start another thread..hopefully it will die a natural death.....
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