By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1886) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:48 pm: |
THE ISLAND OF BONAIRE ANNOUNCES CHANGES TO
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #225) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
Thanks Seb. I, for one, have no problem supporting this new fee structure.
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By T-Shirt Divers John and Sue (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #174) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
Will we see reef police keeping the divers off the reef, especially, us, the photographers? Hopefully,it will save the reef. Sue
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #13050) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:22 pm: |
I read about this in the Bonaire E-ZNews last week. I also think it's good that they will collect money from others that use the waters around Bonaire, not just the divers. They too have an impact (although not as much as divers). I see it as a good cause...having watched the sea life around Catalina Island change dramatically in the last 5 years from divers and fishing, I hope someday the conservation efforts on the island come up with a solution for us.
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By john merriner (BonaireTalker - Post #20) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:24 pm: |
Seems such a small price to pay for everything that is accomplished.
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By Richard Simmons (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #10) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 4:47 pm: |
Still a good value since it includes entry into the park.
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #719) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 5:11 pm: |
sorry, but I disagree on this issue... this is a 150% increase in a tax on visitors for a cause that on the surface appears honorable... in all the trips I've made to Bonaire, I've failed to see any benefit other than fresh paint on the stones...ooops, I did see the new ladder at Oil Slick (after 18 yrs)...I've never seen signs of enforcement, no reef police, no education (unless you are talking about the half page blurb that is distributed when you buy your annual tag)...I've never seen dive sites cleaned up (except by the volunteer groups) and there certainly is NO security protection at the dive sites
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By Ida Christie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #912) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 5:43 pm: |
Greg, We can only hope for the best.
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By andrew hamilton (BonaireTalker - Post #65) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 6:44 pm: |
I tend to agree with Gregg - I have seen very little evidence of what the money is being spent on. I've never even been checked in 50 odd dives to see whether I am wearing the tag. I too would like to see an open book so we could see what the cash is being spent on - it must be a fairly substantial sum. I have no problem paying is I can see results - what exactly are they doing about things like turtle conservation, preventing fisherman hoiking out sharks etc etc. Pertsonally on my second trip I came to the view that the marine environment on the island is under increasing pressure - and STINAPA have to be seen to be not only collecting cash but also to be acting as the chief guarantour of that environment. And yet I have never even seen a STINAPA employee!
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #13051) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 7:10 pm: |
Why don't you email them and ask them. It looks like they don't have very many employees to begin with (at least when they last updated their site a couple years ago)...I also know that when their "roving" laptop died a few months ago they did not have the funds to replace it. I'm not sure exactly how much of the government is involved with them...
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1892) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:04 pm: |
I love dealing with folks you can count on.
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #720) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:05 pm: |
Lets see....the STINPATA is run by a board of local business people (presumably volunteers), very few employees, not enough money to replace a laptop when it died, no appreciable improvements (except Oil Slick)... Where has the money gone from the last 15+ years (?) of the tags? Jack Chalk monitors this site, perhaps he will offer comments that would muster support for this monumental increase in the tax. What is this increase giving back to the visitors?
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4625) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:29 pm: |
I don't mind paying the fee as a snorkeler. Actually, as a snorkeler it is in our favor as we tend to visit the Park up north at least twice per visit, too.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #226) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:31 pm: |
Actually, It appears Jack Chalk has already provided his input in his Post #200 under Everything Else Bonaire: $25.00 Dive Tags.
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By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5333) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:56 pm: |
Link to that archived thread is here:
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #13052) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |
Ha! Jake, you beat me to it! (the link ;-)
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #721) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 9:41 pm: |
Jake,
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By Jack Chalk (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #210) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
Dear Greg et. al.,
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #227) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 11:04 pm: |
Jack: Your efforts have my support.
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #13054) on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 11:54 pm: |
Jack, I was hoping you would see this and give everyone the information needed to support the increase. STINAPA does a great job, with limited funds and staff. Like I said, I only wish we had a program off Catalina Island. They are beginning to install moorings at some sites, but we have a long way to go.
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By Marlene Robinson (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 12:20 am: |
And Jack, thank you also, not only for such an informative response, but such a courteous and patient response to a question that betrayed a knee-jerk negative reaction. I think it is one thing to be curious about what is being done, but another to assume or suggest that nothing (or worse) is being done. It actually doesn't take much research or involvement to get a sense of what STINAPA is accomplishing. STINAPA's office is open, there is a lot of printed information available, and there are staff members around eager to share their mission, strategy and operations.
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By Mare (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #548) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 12:41 am: |
I've had the pleasure to have met several of the Park Rangers (just lucky I guess). I've waved as rangers drive by and 'beep' hi while I'm gearing up at some of the northern sites.
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #846) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 3:26 am: |
The new fees are fine by me, I can see that it pays to look after the reef and park. I do think that U/W cameras should have a tag too - that way it could be revoked if the diver is abusing the reef.
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By DARLENE ELLIS (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1339) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 10:07 am: |
I only snorkel and do not dive and have always bought a tag to support STINAPA and will gladly continue to do so. Gregg,you yourself are a long time visitor to Bonaire and I don't understand what you expect to have given back to you as a visitor. Hasn't Bonaire's beauty and ease of diving given you enough already?
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By seb (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1893) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 10:13 am: |
Jack, thanks for weighing in on this thread. Maybe one of the whiners will take you up on your offer, since they are so crazy to figure out where their lousy $25 goes that they think they should see your books. What unmitigated gall!
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By Debbie Babcock (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1144) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 10:46 am: |
Jack,
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #293) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 11:57 am: |
Never been to the park, but EVERYTHING costs more than it did in 1995, at least it does here in Chicago.
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #847) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 3:01 pm: |
Randy
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By Peggy Bowen (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #216) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
A few years ago, we saw them move an old mooring and install and new one. We have been checked at dive sites - my tag isn't easy to see. We were 'talked to' because of ALL the years of tags my husband had on his BC - ranger wanted to know more about why we visit Bonaire that often. We have seen them go after spearfishermen. We have seen them look after turtles. They have replaced ropes (wires) on moorings. So, yes they have been working to make your diving better in Bonaire.
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By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3801) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 4:58 pm: |
I agree on the raise of the fees. I know the rangers do a great job on the mooring lines, tracing down spear fisherman and other maintenance work. So next time I have to buy a new Tag, I'm more than happy to pay the 25 bucks.
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By Ron Myers (BonaireTalker - Post #82) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 5:41 pm: |
When I did one week trips, the fee cost $10 a week. Now I'm staying for a month and the fee is down to $6.50 a week! The easy answer is to stay longer!
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4627) on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 6:24 pm: |
I like your approach the best, Ron! Carole
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By Chet Wood (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #536) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 8:21 am: |
Tag question?
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By Susanf (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1135) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 9:31 am: |
Jack,
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By Mare (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #562) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 10:45 am: |
Chet, when you get your tag for your BC, you also get a paper receipt. Hopefully that will do just fine.
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By Linda Richter - Artist Bonaire Creations (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2054) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 11:04 am: |
For visible effort, STINAPA Education program has definitely been stepped up a notch in the local schools. My children have been bringing home STINAPA information about the sea turtles including information about protecting them and the laws on Bonaire. They are working to educate the children that eating the turtles and their eggs is wrong despite this being a common practice in the history of Bonaire. My daughter was horrified to learn that some of her classmates had eaten turtle eggs. For anybody that has children, you know how your children can bring that information home and tell it to the parents straight out - don't smoke, fire alarms, buckle up, recycling, and on Bonaire - don't eat the turtles! Go get 'em STINAPA. I hope to see programs on the Conch, the Lora, desert habitat, as well as fishing and reef protection.
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By John P. Wahlig (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #175) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 12:55 pm: |
Quoting from Jack's older discussion post "however STINAPA Bonaire also believes that any increase in the fee must include the expansion to all users who derive benefit and enjoyment from a professionally and well managed marine park and not just a certain group of users. "
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By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1891) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 1:50 pm: |
Gregg. I could not disagree with you more! The government has nothing to do with STINAPA and they are charged with protecting all of the natural areas. Jack makes the case very well and I would love to be a fly on the wall when you do meet him to discuss your concerns. I think Elsmare should also be at the meeting....
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By Bob Davison (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 2:06 pm: |
What's next?
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #849) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
Bob
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By Bob Davison (BonaireTalker - Post #43) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 5:30 pm: |
Brian,
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By Sonja (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 6:05 pm: |
What about the Venezuelans that throw away their refridgerator in the water? We saw them doing that.
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By Mickey McCarthy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #188) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 8:59 pm: |
It beats me how anyone can be bothered by a $15 increase in a fee that has not changed in years when they are spending thousands on airfare, lodging,training, meals and car rental. End of rant. Mickey
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By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5334) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 9:24 pm: |
Bob,
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4641) on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 9:50 pm: |
Thanks for your input and information, Jake. I don't think the increase is out of line at all. I definitely feel we get more out of the Parks than we have to put "in" financially for the tags. I hope the projects you mentioned as well as any others they might develop will be successful with the increase in funds which will become available. Ayo. Carole
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By Linda Stoltzfus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #465) on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 1:05 am: |
Question.....
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By Linda Stoltzfus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #466) on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 1:24 am: |
I forgot to mention that we travel to Bonaire the same time each year and pay for the non-required tags as support of Bonaire. So our '04 tags need to be renewed.
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By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #285) on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 5:31 pm: |
I e-mailed STINAPA to support the change to their fee structure. STINAPA should hear directly from those in favour, since I'm sure those opposed will waste no time with their detailed whinging about the unfairness of it all.
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By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3805) on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 6:34 pm: |
Linda and all others wondering about the extra charge. I've had contact with The marine Park manager about this question, and here is his reply:
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #725) on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 7:52 pm: |
I also want to thank Jack Chalk for stepping up and responding to the questions I raised in a professional and courteous manner. Its not often a government representative will meet such an attack. I believe debate is healthy.
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By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5338) on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 10:41 pm: |
Um, Gregg, small point of order...
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By Ron LaCourse (BonaireTalker - Post #19) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 4:33 am: |
Here's the thing, if you prevent me from diving without a tag, you are in point of fact charging a tax. What are the ramifications of not buying a tag? Am I not allowed to dive, am I arrested or fined by the government or by an organization which apperently has no "official" basis. There are 3 of us going to Bonaire, we will pay $75 in park tags, $115 in room tax, $60 in airport tax, $40 in car tax and fees, I'm not sure about a meal tax or sale tax but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some of these as well. How about the mooring fee charged to dive operators, do you think they don't pass that fee onto us? If there are property taxes do you believe the motel operators don't pass them on as well? When you start talking about $200-300 in taxes or fees for one week its not small change for my family. This is money I won't have for other activities like a boat dive or dinners out. I'm sure Jack and the other officials working for STINAPA are good guys, thats not the point. If I were a STINAPA representative reading these posts I would think we didn't go far enough, we should have raised it to $50 and all Bonaire Talkers will be happy to pay it. Well thats fine, you should be able to support whatever causes you desire, I just don't want to have mandatory giving imposed on all. This is similar to what the UN would like to do, impose a tax on nations based upon their gross domestic product. This is not however the method the majority of Americans chose to follow. We are the most giving nation in the world, but we all like to give to the causes of our choice, out of our blessings and generosity, not tax or imposed fees.
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1977) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 9:09 am: |
An awful lot of words here about a 'few extra dollars that won't keep us home'.
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By Scott Phillips (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 11:12 am: |
Ron,
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By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5339) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
Ron,
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By seb (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1904) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 12:22 pm: |
So a fee less than the cost of one boat dive, which gets you park entry and unlimited diving at, what, 40 odd dive sites, is considered really expensive to some folks? How about if the fee was tied to the price of oil,US inflation, or the cost of a US stamp? Show me another place where I can spend $225 and dive all day and night for for six days.
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By Mare (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #567) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 12:56 pm: |
Good Heavens!
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By Andrea & Dave Bartlett (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #115) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 2:09 pm: |
We agree with Jake and Scott. How many people in the USA will pay as much as $50 a person to go to a theme park for just 1 day. All parks charge entry fees, some more some less but all do it. And we are not all wealthy most of us are just like you and work for a living and only go to Bonaire once every 1-2 years. We save our money until we have enough to go and relax. Every business pays taxes and passes that along to it's customers, you just don't see it because they are included in the prices listed.
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By john merriner (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
I am with Seb on this one, a two tank boat dive off the coast of North Carolina is $90!
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By David Johnson (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #173) on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 1:30 pm: |
My View: I am generally supportive of the new approach but would suggest they also consider some sort of day pass for very short term visitors.
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By David Johnson (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #174) on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 2:15 pm: |
Ron:
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By Bob Davison (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
>> .... a two tank boat dive off the coast of North Carolina is $90! <<
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By Meryl Virga (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4408) on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 10:53 am: |
I am suprised that Bonaire waited this long to raise the tag price...especially after Lenny. Coming to Bonaire twice a year, 25 dollars a diver is still a great deal. It is 100 dollars per person on Galapagoes...over 60 dollars a person to get into Disney(no conservation there!) I think it is a small price to pay to ensure their reefs are protected.
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By Tom Cousino (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1386) on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 10:59 am: |
Jack, Thanks for your response. As usual it was both informative and courteous. I hope to take you up on the invitation to visit the Headquarters at Barcadera on my next two week visit to Bonaire. I will gladly pay the new $25.00 fee to support the cause.
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #859) on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 3:35 pm: |
David
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By David Johnson (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #176) on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 1:38 am: |
Brian:
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #861) on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:24 am: |
David
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By joe brannan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #439) on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:20 pm: |
I aint rich, and I look at each of my dive trips with the major constraint of cost. That will not (even with the $15 (yup we're arguing about $15)) keep me from returning to Bonaire whenever I can afford it. I guess it does bother me a bit when a well guided non-profit such as STINAPA is incorrectly painted as a "arm of the government" and thus bad. I have to ask what the reef and Washington Park would look like if there were no STINAPA.
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By Lorraine Meadows (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #902) on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 10:11 am: |
This is a little late on this subject but..
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By Tish Dace (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 1:13 pm: |
You're so right about all of this, Lorraine, and I second your tribute to STINAPA.
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