By Larry Rose (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 4:45 pm: |
Just got back from our first trip to Bonaire.
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By Cindylou (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 5:11 pm: |
Hi Larry
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #38) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 6:34 pm: |
Certain cultures (nationalities, races) can be more or less sensitive to the world around them. Welcome to the new way of thinking about the planet. Screw saving it, just enjoy it while you can.
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #39) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 6:37 pm: |
P.S.
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By Peggy Wages (BonaireTalker - Post #37) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 8:06 pm: |
What does reef damage have to do with not tipping a divemaster? Believe me, I know from firsthand experience - as a dive professional you talk, you teach, you preach, and you do the best you can, but you cannot constantly police a group of adults who have minds of their own.
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By JIM KENNEDY (BonaireTalker - Post #81) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 10:53 pm: |
Hi Larry~
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By JIM KENNEDY (BonaireTalker - Post #82) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 10:58 pm: |
Larry me again,
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #272) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:40 am: |
Larry
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By bob neer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #983) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:46 am: |
no pics???
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By Bill Carrier (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #23) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:30 am: |
I must admit, I've been appalled at the mistreatment of the reefs. I have witness divers standing on coral giving the OK sign to the dive master. Yet the divemaster does nothing. When I complained to the dive shop manager, the attitude was, The diver is part of a large group that comes every year. (Read between the lines -- money talks)
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By Cynde (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6375) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:45 am: |
bill, you bring up a good point. if you see someone abusing the reef, report them to the dive shop (unless they turn their ear the other way) you have helped. doing nothing won't help the problem.
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By Larry Rose (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #8) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 11:19 am: |
Thanks for all the responses.
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #273) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:43 pm: |
Bob
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By Cecil Berry (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2480) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:59 pm: |
Larry while appalled as you are about the misuse of the reef, it does not seem quite fair to blame the island or the DM's for the shortcomings of hopefully a minority of divers. The island does an excellent job of conserving the reefs and has been doing this longer than any other island. The DM's are stuck in the middle, they love the reefs and hate to see them damaged but also have to make a living and do not want to be the bad guys to the tourists.
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By Dean Botsford (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #231) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 1:22 pm: |
a bit off the subject but...
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By Larry Rose (BonaireTalker - Post #12) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 1:38 pm: |
Cecil - I was careful not to blame either and don't! It's down to the individual careless and thoughtless divers. If they've all got PADI OW at least, it's there in the manual - Module 1!
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1408) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 2:08 pm: |
Larry,
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By Cecil Berry (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2481) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:12 pm: |
Thanks Dean, I've already lined up two 128 meg cards, plus the 200 megs I own. Should be able to get a few pictures. I'm down to 35 days and can't stand the wait.
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By Linnea Wijkhof-Wimberly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #479) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:25 pm: |
Larry, I have dove the Indian Ocean, the Red Sea, and the Northern and Southern Pacific. All of those places are gorgeous and I have seen the same behavior that you described at the begining of the thread at all of those places. The underwater life in the Carribean is not as colorful and the water around Bonaire is not crystal clear most of the time. What we Bonaire addicts enjoy is the variety of the underwater life and the relative tameness of the fish and the uncrowded, unherded diving without having a bunch of "Mister Nasty's" trying to get fed.
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By Liz Ginocchio (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #126) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:41 pm: |
Hi All!
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #274) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:45 pm: |
I feel there are other factors at play here too. The Maldives and other locations have suffered severe coral bleaching which may due to Global Warming and some Indian Ocean reefs are now more like rock after they have been grazed bare by the parrot fish.
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #40) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:06 pm: |
"(the resort is ultimately responsible for training and dive education of there guests, so they are held just as financially responsible as the guests. I am sure that if they knew what was going on, they would be upset as if someone reports it, they are financial responsible for fines as well)"
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #275) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:50 pm: |
Jason
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #276) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 6:19 pm: |
Good points, Sorry I was multitasking. But what is added to this when additional burden on the ocean is added from global warming?
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By bob neer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #987) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 3:09 am: |
stuff happens...
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By Tom Erhard (BonaireTalker - Post #52) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 10:12 am: |
I just want to jump in about the DM's being reluctant to scold reef intruders.
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 1:36 pm: |
Hmmmm. Still no stories of DMs reporting their own customers. Wonder why.
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By JIM KENNEDY (BonaireTalker - Post #83) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 6:21 pm: |
Jason~
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By J Rushman (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 9:03 pm: |
I tend to think most divers who damage the reef are just clueless and would respond to a rebuke from a divemaster. However, with the diving freedom available on Bonaire, most incidents go unnoticed. I was trained while living in Aruba and bouyancy control and reef protection were not stressed. On a trip to Bonaire MANY years ago, I was "scolded" underwater by Linda B. for touching hard coral while pointing something out to my dive buddy. Although I was a little offended by her correction at the time, she was absolutely correct. I, too, was clueless then.
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By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #169) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 1:06 pm: |
We noticed some rather destructive behaviour by an American diver taking pictures at the Salt Pier. He dragged two camera's with him. He only used one camera at the time, while the other one was lying in the sand, the coral, wherever convenient for him.
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By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 2:33 pm: |
So what ever happened to personal responsibility? I refuse to believe that so many are just clueless as to not know that grabbing stuff and stepping on it and otherwise bashing it around is healthy for the reef (but, incidentally, those parrot fish seem to do a good job). Same goes with "buddy checks." Do people not KNOW this stuff? Come on--they're just often times too lazy or unskilled (=unpracticed) to do the proper things they know to be proper. As a diver (and an American one, BTW) I do my absolute best to ensure that A) I do what I know is proper for the reef, myself, and those around me; if I can't then I will be the first to get my own a** outtada pool, and B) do my best to be a positive role model for all other divers--no matter what their "certification" level, and C) be constructively critical to help others achieve good and responsible habits.
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By sherry baker (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #491) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 3:10 pm: |
i felt that most everyone barry and i dove with on bonaire were very cautious of the reef. also on our shore dives, anyone we encountered seemed careful also. i am sure there are ignorant or uncaring divers everywhere which could include snorkelers too, we have been lucky not to see them doing such things.
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By Dave Ellwood ( Post #1) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 9:54 pm: |
I did this before only to discover that I had forgotten my password so I have lost a little of my passion. What I want to say is that I am a bit tired of hearing portions of the great veteran diving comunity rant and rage about all of the unqualified divers distroying the reefs. All those out there that have never kicked or touched or bumped the reef please raise their hands. What no hands. Gee we must of all been new at one time or made a mistake at one time or both or a combination or both. Maybe some of us were new back when the amount of divers visiting the reefs were allot fewer so the impact was less thusly the need to be careful was less. Anybody remember those days. But now it's different. There are many more folks that want to enjoy the wonders that we all love. Way back then divers could collect things, pick them up and look at them and even spear fish all in the very places that are now protected. Anyone out there remember collecting or touch without concern cause the diver numbers were not so high that the impact was a worry? Think hard now. My hand is up I'm guilty, I have kicked the reef, bumbed the reef, touched the reef. Never on purpose and always with great regret. And ya know what I might screw up again, I constantly try not to but I unlike some folks am only human. My wife and I have dived in a few different place in the world with many different people and we have never met a single one that wants to damage the reef or a single one that would make me believe that they are uncaring to the point that the reef is secondary to their own personal wants. What has done the most damage to the reefs of the world, people or nature? In Bonaire it's Lenny. My opinion, but of course this has all been just my opinion. We love to dive, we love Bonaire and we truly love meeting all the other folks that share our love. So maybe we can get our noses out of the air, share the love of diving with each other and with that; the heart felt need to protect the reef will be communicated in a way that it will invade the hearts of those that we are talking to. Being a snob is not the answer. We will be back in Bonaire in two weeks and I promise that I will try to make every shore entry and exit without touching bottom....Who can walk on water these days not me but what the heck I'll give a try maybe I'll become famous.
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By Niki Harris (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #732) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 12:35 am: |
I read all the above posts, and was sort of surprised how Larry painted everyone with the broad brush of carelessness. Bonaire's reef-clumsy divers have seemed a minority to me. I have been taught the customs clearly in the orientation at the dive shop. Some abusers get reported, some are instructed tactfully. I agree with Dave E, here. Lenny was the equivalent of thousands of years of bumps and tweaks from our elbows and fins. Such a loss. We do have to nurture what's there now. I'll join you tiptoeing on the surface in three weeks.
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By Dave Ellwood (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 10:14 am: |
Now we have two water walkers, this could be a great beginning. But alas the dive boat industry will not like it when we are walking to the dive sites instead of taking the boats. Ya know when I hit a bird with my car I feel bad but I don't stop driving. I didn't try to hit it, I tried to avoid it but it happened. Same with the reef, 99% of the folks are not trying to hurt or distroy; there are acidents, sad, bad for the reef, bad for the diver but true and as long as all of us do our very best to be careful and to pass our concerns to others then we are being good divers. The only other alternatives are A. to be pissed off everytime we dive cause there are others around that just might have an accident or B. we ALL stay out of the water so the reef is truely protected cause even the very very best divers have a negative impact. Neither choice works for me. I will continue to dive, enjoy the reef and all the folks that share it with me. That's it I'm done except to say that if I see a lady walking to Klien Bonaire in three weeks I'll know who it is........Bye
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By Marcus L. Barnes (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 8:25 pm: |
Well said Dave. I was starting to get a little paranoid thinking about the self appointed scuba police watching my every move and confronting me on the surface if I failed to meet the "walk on water" standard. Hope you don't mind if I sign on to your third choice above - "enjoy the reef and all the folks that share it with me" Not my words but I couldn't have put it better. Have a great dive y'all!!
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By James Thomas (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 11:03 pm: |
I guess Larry could do as my wife(buddy) and myself do. We have been to Bonaire many times and I guess the last five trips we have not put a foot in a boat. We do shore diving only and very seldom even see other divers in the water so we don't have to worry about anyone except our selves, we do hope all divers are as careful as we try to be. I guess it would take a bunch of dive masters to police all the shore divers.(G) Larry, I don't think you have taken into consideration that a large % of divers never do boat dives. I do agree that all divers should be as careful as possible but everyone can't be perfect all the time. Also I have heard many sad stories about divers in the Pacific trashing the reefs, anywhere that grown up kids dive their will be some damage to the reefs.
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By jeff (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #21) on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 11:21 am: |
My only comment to this thread, is regarding the mention of solo diving being allowed.
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By bob neer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #996) on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 6:53 pm: |
you go jeff ;)
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By Larry Rose (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 6:20 am: |
Hi Jeff
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 1:31 pm: |
I think solo divers respect for the sea and general responsibility for themselves makes them the least likely candidate for reef damage. Logic tells me that its the "boat" people who do most of diver related damage to the reef. When I ski the backcountry there is always a lead guide and a "tailgunner" or a guide to follow the party. This would be a good move for Bonaire DMs. Would the BMP or whoever go for this idea?
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By Marcus L. Barnes (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 2:53 pm: |
Not if they want to maintain their rep as the "HOME OF DIVING FREEDOM!" (a concept I hope Bonaire never abandons!).
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #43) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 3:11 pm: |
What does diving freedom have to do with two DMs in the water with their group.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 3:21 pm: |
My mistake. I assumed you were also referring to shore divers.
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1411) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 5:23 pm: |
Nothing to do with just having '2 DM's in the water with their group'.
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 6:04 pm: |
A rear guide doesnt "require" anything. A tailgunner would be the guy looking at the majority of the group from behind. Most boat dive groups stay somewhat together and the viz is good enough to see if divers are touching or damaging the reef. He could focus on photogs or beginners.
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By Sarah (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1890) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 7:54 pm: |
Unfortunately, the two economic sectors associated with coral reefs, namely tourism and fisheries will face the impacts of global warming and SCUBA diving in the not too distant future. FOR BRIAN - Although total carbon dioxide emissions in the UK have fallen by approx. 20 per cent between the early 70's and 2000, unfortunately emissions from transport have increased by approx. 87 per cent! Nuclear power is the way forward...
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #278) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 3:23 am: |
Sarah
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By Mark James (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 1:06 pm: |
I would just like to state that not everyone with a camera is damaging the reef. I will be in Bonaire on May 25th and plan on taking a lot of pictures. I was in Browning passage last month in B.C. Canada and went to the best dive site I have ever been to (Hunt Rock). There is not a spot that does not have life so you can't touch anything. With the very strong current and surge it was almost imposable to take pics. So instead of killing things I just did the best I could and only got a couple of keepers.
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By Mark James (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 1:13 pm: |
Let me see if I can figure this out..;)
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By DIVER DEBBI (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #283) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 9:54 pm: |
what awsome color....thanks for the posting
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By constance (BonaireTalker - Post #11) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:59 am: |
Just got back from Bonaire a couple of weeks ago and hate to but have have to agree with alot of what has been said in this thread about the, not carelessness, but either disregard, or even meaness of SOME divers. I saw a woman with pink fins in front of Buddy's on a shore dive with three other people. She had her knife out and was poking everything she was interested in with the blade!! Everyone else in her group was watching, then they would move on to the next spot and poke it.
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By Larry Rose (BonaireTalker - Post #16) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:49 am: |
Constance
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By John Allen (BonaireTalker - Post #87) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:53 am: |
I guess the real key is speaking up. If you see someone finning a coral head, poking something with a knife, or some other distasteful act, SAY SOMETHING. We all visit Bonaire to have a good time, so no one is itching to get in an arguement with other divers. We still need to let others know that such behavior is destructive and unacceptable. Visibility in Bon is good enough that you can still see a lot with bad buoyancy, just stay farther from the bottom. I also encourage the dive shops to let people know, as part of their orientation/marine park tag issuance, just how damaging it is to a coral head, fish or whatever, when you touch it. Most everone who posts on this site cares about the future of the seas. Act on those concerns and speak up.
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