By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #77) on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 4:34 pm: |
Hi everyone, A friend living on Bonaire recently sent me the following article regarding a projected massive increase in tourism. The article originally appeared on www.amigoe.com. I for one am very alarmed at this prospect and the potential it has to negatively impact the culture and environment of the island. Marketing Bonaire as a "product", IMHO, will not encourage true appreciation of its unique qualities; rather, this label will serve to distance people from them. A product is something to be consumed - and discarded. It is too late to stem the flow this year, but may be possible to affect future planning. Of course there are many sides to this issue. I understand the need to generate income for the island - but is this the best way? As a community of people who love Bonaire and are watching as development increases each year, I strongly encourage BT'ers to make your opinions known to Ms. Ronella Croes, General Manager of TCB (Tourism Corporation Bonaire). Contact info for her follows the article:
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By Ron Myers (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #418) on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 9:56 pm: |
I have sent a message. It pretty much gives the reasons I come to Bonaire instead of Cozumel. If Bonaire becomes, or attempts to become, another Cozumel it will be a death knell for my kind of tourism to Bonaire. Cozumel made this decision long ago. Dive tourism is now a small part of the local economy; the far greater share come from POD people off the damn big boats. They have killed some terrific reefs to make room for those deep draft ships. Is this what anyone born on bonaire hopes for?
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By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5305) on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 10:34 pm: |
I am interested in what the locals and my friends in Bonaire think of this. I am just a visitor/tourist, also. I feel these questions are sometimes better answered by those affected on a daily basis and not by just another vacationer with a strong opinion (I have one, but it's very selfish..lol) So.... come out come out !!
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By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4464) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:38 am: |
Well said Kelly. I second your opinion!
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #879) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 7:52 am: |
Good point Kelly. Also, I wonder if these projections are accurate? How much self and organizational promotion on the part of the General Manager and the TCB are involved in these numbers?
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By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5307) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 8:20 am: |
oh my gosh, no one ever seconds my opinion.. lol.. I think I am blushing.
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By Jack Kelly (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:01 am: |
Kelly - I am local and you do have a right to express how you feel about these as much as someone living here.
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By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5308) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:24 am: |
Jack, that is exactly the information I was talking about.
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By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5309) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:34 am: |
I forgot to add, since I can feel free to say how I feel... lol... I not optimistic that cruise ships will help Bonaire... I love Bonaire because of it's quaintness, as do so many other BTers and Bonaire visitors. Will cruise ships and increased tourism affect my return to Bonaire? At this point, certainly not. But we'll see what the future holds ! I have made so many friends there though, that I cannot imagine not traveling there and sharing it with my family.
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2535) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:34 am: |
Please give us a chance and a bit of credit to manage the influx of cruise passengers and the infrastructure. The merchants and tour companies on island need the business to be able to afford to run their companys year round. For instance, take the taxi drivers who spend a small fortune on the cabs and sit at the airport waiting for fares only to have folks rent cars. That of course is your right but what about those who do not rent cars and are picked up by properties, etc. that no not have permits to do transfers. They need the revenue provided by cruise passengers to pay their bills!
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2536) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:35 am: |
Please give us a chance and a bit of credit to manage the influx of cruise passengers and the infrastructure. The merchants and tour companies on island need the business to be able to afford to run their companies year round. For instance, take the taxi drivers who spend a small fortune on the cabs and sit at the airport waiting for fares only to have folks rent cars. That of course is your right but what about those who do not rent cars and are picked up by properties, etc. that no not have permits to do transfers. They need the revenue provided by cruise passengers to pay their bills!
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #882) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:35 am: |
Point taken Jack. We stopped diving Cozumel and started diving Bonaire 7 years ago because of the flood of cruise ships that started showing up on Cozumel. I can't imagine this happening on Bonaire to the extent that it has Cozumel but if it does I join you in believing that Bonaire will begin to lose its main source of revenue - divers.
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By Ron Myers (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #419) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 11:21 am: |
Marcus, re:Cozumel your experience exactly parallels mine, and at the same time frame. San Miguel now looks pretty much like every other cruise destination...the same brand of shops, chain eateries, etc. From my viewpoint I only hope that is not the future of Bonaire.
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By Rosanne (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1308) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 11:26 am: |
I have very mixed feelings about this, I'm glad some people living on Bonaire chimed in here. I have very selfish reasons to dislike the cruise ships coming to Bonaire and understand the economic impact if they do. As someone stated, no easy solution exists. I want the people of Bonaire to flourish and prosper, will the cruise ships help that quest? Only time will tell.
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By Jack Kelly (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 11:54 am: |
"Please give us a chance and a bit of credit.. "
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By Tom Schamp (BonaireTalker - Post #80) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 12:11 pm: |
The Cozumel situation is sad, yes. I'll go there for diving again, but as last time, for just 4 days or so, from Friday through Monday, when the cruise ships are mostly back in home ports, reloading.
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By Pauline Word (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:03 pm: |
We are taking our first trip to Bonaire in August. Hooray!
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By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1474) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:20 pm: |
So far, cruise ships would not keep me from going back to Bonaire. I would however try to schedule my visit when there would be no cruise ship in, and if that was not possible I would avoid the down town area while the cruise ship is in. Most of my time is spent underwater so I am not that concerned.
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By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5310) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:58 pm: |
Denise, that is a very good point. Or maybe people who have only been to Bonaire once or twice, will they find their paradise elsewhere? I cannot imagine going anywhere but Bonaire for my big vacations... but I also cannot imagine Bonaire with people everywhere on any given day. The cams freak me out when the big ships are in town.. lol..
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #884) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:59 pm: |
I won't stop going to Bonaire like I did Cozumel just because of cruise ships - but that doesn't mean I'm ambivalent about all kinds of cruise ships docking in Bonaire; it means I love Bonaire Shore Diving enough to hold my nose and tolerate the cruise ships because basically there will be no choice but to tolerate the cruise ships if you want to keep going to Bonaire correct? Its a loaded question that makes it look like if you say you'll keep going to Bonaire, that somehow infers your okay with the cruise ships which I'm not.
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By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5313) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 2:12 pm: |
Part of what keeps me from going back to Cozumel is the annoying people in the streets that accost you... if Bonaire gets 'bigger' and there are more tourists and time-share salesmen - or people who approach you on the street - that would be a huge turn off for me. I shouldn't say this and I knock wood as I do, but I just can't picture Bonaire like that.
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By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2664) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 2:28 pm: |
When the ships are in I avoid Sorobon due to the crowds. That's for sure. Having lived in Antigua I can say MOST complain about the influx of tourists during cruise ship visits. They do not eat out typically (as their meals are included), our island is NOT a shopping haven so they will no doubt spend the bulk of their dollars in places like St. Thomas and Sint Maarten, they will damage the reefs unless the dive companies increase their staff to monitor the waters. Just the other day I was at Donkey Beach during the cruise ship visit and saw tourists standing on the reef talking to each other.
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By Bob Davison (BonaireTalker - Post #73) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 2:36 pm: |
Ahhh there's nothing like a good hurricane or two to improve and island? Voila .. a few piers destroyed and it cut the POD people down to almost nothing. Cozumel since Wilma has been GREAT! We've been back 5 times since Wilma (including a visit only a month or so after Wilma) and found the island absolutely wonderful. Just like the 80's. (without the lobster during the surface intervals <vbg>)
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By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1476) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 3:26 pm: |
"Its a loaded question that makes it look like if you say you'll keep going to Bonaire, that somehow infers your okay with the cruise ships which I'm not. " ... I was not addressing if you or anybody else who already goes to Bonaire is OK with it, I was addressing the effect of loss of business due to Cruise Ships.
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By John Gnann (BonaireTalker - Post #66) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 3:39 pm: |
I absolutely respect the right of the people of Bonaire and their government to find ways to improve cash flow. I just hope they go about it in a thoughtful and deliberate way.
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2537) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 3:47 pm: |
Jack my friend. I have lived here 22 years and for the past 15 have been working with TCB as a consultant and really think you also don't have a clue as to the people and culture of Bonaire. It really frosts me when someone who thinks they know our island and make judgements as to how we should run it! Just how long have you lived here, Jack? It may take a few years to learn that the island can police itself and has done so for many years. My research my friend has been confined to the island, however, I don't live in a vacuum and know how to read the volumes of reports and statistics that come across my "desk". I will not comment further on this topic as it will become self evident that all the visitors can coexist and all the sectors can flourish.
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By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #842) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 7:03 am: |
Life is always filled with changes. The first time I visited Bonaire was in 1985 & the island is much different today. Honestly,I think most of the changes I've seen over the past 20 years have been positive.
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By James Reilly (BonaireTalker - Post #54) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 8:04 am: |
As a professional City and Regional Planner, I have been concerned about the possible impacts of growth on both the island's infrastructure and it's natural marine systems. I see the development of the cruise industry as another form of development.
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #620) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 9:15 am: |
My feelings about cruise ships are also in two directions ... the No comes when I see these masses of people in the Kaya Grandi, at Sorobon , at the Donkey Beach ... the small cruise ships as we had in the past fitted much better with the live on Bonaire than these monsters we get now .... but the Yes is there too , we had and even have at the moment guests who learned and saw Bonaire because they were on a cruise ship (Aida) and now they spend a 3 weeks snorkling vacation with us. And I would think we are not the only lodging profiting from cruise ship passengers....
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By Jake Richter - NetTech/Bonaire Insider (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6082) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 9:45 am: |
I'm with Brigitte on this.
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2540) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 2:29 pm: |
eons! give me a break! How 'bout decades?
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By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5920) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 4:31 pm: |
I am not thrilled with this whole idea at all. I'm only a visitor but if it starts to affect the quality of the visits then changes will most likely be made on "our" end when it comes to future visits. I can't see how folks trampling on the corals and cramming the few "beaches" on Bonaire are going to be good for the island or anyone. As others have said, once the pods folks go back up the plank, they will forget all about Bonaire and will only compare their photos to those of their other stops during their cruise.
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By Jake Richter - NetTech/Bonaire Insider (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6084) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 7:51 pm: |
Decades, eons - big diff Michael.
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2541) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 8:31 am: |
Jake, that has always been an issue of mine when some people who should know better pass on information that is not correct and make people, such as STINAPA, look bad when they do indeed fight hard for the island and are roundly criticized by people who are in a position of "authority" such as yourself. Your glib comment should have been an apology, not to me but to Elsmarie, for lumping her with the politicians who have other agendas. By the way, STINAPA did make a stink and they were heard and that is why the fee will be incorporated in the head tax that will be levied in November. Hopefully this will be the end of the "discussion" but I have never known you not to have the last word, even if it is a retraction.
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By Jake Richter - NetTech/Bonaire Insider (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6085) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 10:27 am: |
Michael,
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2546) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 10:46 am: |
see what i mean about last words...I rest my case! Hope Linda recovers quickly..
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By Glen Reem (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2537) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 7:27 pm: |
Oh, for heaven's sake (especially on this holiday! :–) ), both of you.
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By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #79) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 10:29 pm: |
Hi again everyone,
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By Patrick Matthew White (BonaireTalker - Post #11) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 1:07 am: |
Hi All:
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By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #846) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 6:19 am: |
Very interesting thread!
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By Schuko (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 12:28 pm: |
this discussion remember me to the 'locust'-discussion at home.
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By Glen Reem (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2538) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 2:54 pm: |
Vince,
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2550) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 4:47 pm: |
ah..the voice of reason...yes Glenn, you can stay at my house for a week when you come..
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By Jim McPeak (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #662) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 6:53 pm: |
Again, this thread just shows the extreme passion that people, including me, feel about this very special island. Sir Thomas More once wrote an incredible piece about Utopia. It was a play on words about an imaginary island. It was a combination of "good place" and "no place." I think that all of us would want Bonaire to stay the exact same place that we first visited, whenever that first visit was. However, time really does not stand still for anyone, or any island.
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By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2670) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:16 am: |
Interesting read
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By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #24) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:04 am: |
I've just got back from Bonaire. I was foolish enough to take a trip into town last week without realising that the supposedly prestigious "Queen Mary 2" was visiting. The place was packed - mainly by badly-dressed, overweight, elderly cruise passengers who were clogging up the streets, bars and shops but didn't look to me as if they were spending much money. The local people will certainly have their say, but the TCB's ambitions may well be difficult to resist and I fear that the charm of Kralendijk will be permanently spoiled. This would be to the ultimate detriment of the real tourist business.
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By Mara, Mara -she's here somewhere (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2009) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:18 am: |
Very interesting Ann - thanks for sharing.
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By Mickey McCarthy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #378) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:07 pm: |
The thing that struck me most in a quick glance of the article Ann pointed out is the annual tourist number, 400,000!
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By Sorrows (BonaireTalker - Post #58) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:12 pm: |
We just came back from a week at Cozumel; we made the mistake of going into town one afternoon and it was HORRIBLE. Spent the rest of the week either on the reefs or at the hotel. There was not a single day when there wasn't a cruise ship in port; one day we counted SIX.
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By Jan Klos - ( Hamlet Bonaire #10) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #474) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:23 pm: |
Peter, What fashion magazine, clothing retail or manufacturer do you work for that you can be such a critic as to the way people dress?
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By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1481) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 1:06 pm: |
http://www.bonaireinsider.com/pdfs/20060905-BonaireTourismStatistics-2006-FirstHalf.pdf Some interesting Bonaire tourism stats should you be interested.
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By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 1:09 pm: |
Jan, if you looked at my profile, you'd see I'm far too old to work in the fashion business!
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By Mark Carbo (BonaireTalker - Post #70) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 2:24 pm: |
Jan,
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By Mickey McCarthy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #379) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 2:57 pm: |
Denise
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By Bob Banker (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:24 pm: |
There is very little shore diving in Grand Cayman. Cruise ships arrive around 6AM and are all gone by 6PM, so the downtown restaurants are not crowded and the traffic isn't too bad. We are diving in the morning and afternoon, and cruise shippers don't do that; so we don't feel the effects from the 6-7 ships in port on winter days. There also aren't any ships on weekends, and few in the summer. Having said that, Grand Cayman has roads that let you get around George Town going north or south; I'm not sure how to easily avoid Kralendijk going from resorts in the north to dive sites in the south.
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By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #80) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:29 pm: |
Ann and Denise, Very interesting reading, thanks for posting the links!
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By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #26) on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 3:30 am: |
Hi Mark, saw your trip report and glad you & Betsy enjoyed your stay! Hope to see you there another time.
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #117) on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 8:03 am: |
Friday the 20th the locals can do their saying on this. If you like this to become a daily event give these guys another term. If not make them leave the office !!
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By Joanie (BonaireTalker - Post #35) on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 1:50 pm: |
Was really surprised to read article in Bonaire Reporter, stating that a cruise ship blocked delivery of food to the Island last week. I guess the Island is already impacted by the cruise ships.
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #118) on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 7:59 pm: |
Yeah, right. I seriously doubt that this story is true. We get like one cruiseship docking here per week and that happens to block 'the food supply'. Ha !!! This is by far the best excuse for mismanagement and lousy stock controle I have heard in years !!!
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2564) on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 8:29 am: |
Listen to the voice of reason. Yes, Menno, the folks from Don Andreas, are making "waves" about docking space and using the media to publicize their agenda. As usual, the Reporter prints what ever comes out of the box without doing any in depth research (sort of par for the course for newspapers). As yet, all the facts are not in yet re the docking space problem.
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By MadMan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #125) on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:19 pm: |
Don Andres made noise cause they had a short and busy week (Good friday and easter monday) and a cruise ship in port almost every day so they could only unload at night and instead of making 4 trips to Curacao to pickup the containers they could only get 2 trips in. Menno says this is an excuse for mis-mangement? That is a little too much. If you are counting on one or more container(s) coming in each week and they simply don't show, your gone, you start running out of stuff right away f.i. fresh vegetables chilled meats etc. Nothing you can do about it. There is no affordable alternative route. And a lot of the time it makes no sense to stock larger amounts for longer period etc. because of the best by dates. Yes all Don Andres is doing is making noise. They were promised a solution and to date no change has taken place. All there has been is talk of moving the container traffic to an other (new) location. We'll wait and see.
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By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #119) on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 7:01 pm: |
Good friday happened before. Easter Monday too. I have heard rumors that for next year they have big plans for having these days again ......
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By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #86) on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:13 pm: |
Here is a link to a very interesting and scary video documentary about wastewater generated by the Freewinds cruise ship. Please watch it and think about the impact that even more of these ships will have on Bonaire given the present state of wastewater disposal on island. Go to: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ajnukeykjc&nr=1>
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By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #28) on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:54 am: |
That link didn't work for me. Try this one.
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By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #89) on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 6:27 pm: |
Thanks Peter, I don't know why that link didn't work but you saved it!
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By Dalena Bressler (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:28 pm: |
I'll be arriving on my second trip to Bonaire next week. One of the reasons my husband and I are coming back is because Bonaire is so quaint and caters to us divers. I don't want to go to Cozumel because of the cruise ships and the masses they bring. I would rather see the tourists that come back year after year rather than the "flash in the pan" type that think that Bonaire is just another island. Is there a way to stop this?
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2596) on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 9:35 am: |
Please take note...the cruise ships are gone until next season..we have the Freewinds, the Windjammer and an odd small ship on occasion for the next few months!!
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By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5967) on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 7:07 pm: |
Amen, Michael! See you very soon. cb
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