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Getting to Bonaire: CRUISE TOURISM TO INCREASE - YOUR LETTERS NEEDED!
Bonaire Talk: Getting to Bonaire: Archives: Archives 2006-2008: Archives - 2007-01-01 to 2007-09-30: CRUISE TOURISM TO INCREASE - YOUR LETTERS NEEDED!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #77) on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 4:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi everyone, A friend living on Bonaire recently sent me the following article regarding a projected massive increase in tourism. The article originally appeared on www.amigoe.com. I for one am very alarmed at this prospect and the potential it has to negatively impact the culture and environment of the island. Marketing Bonaire as a "product", IMHO, will not encourage true appreciation of its unique qualities; rather, this label will serve to distance people from them. A product is something to be consumed - and discarded. It is too late to stem the flow this year, but may be possible to affect future planning. Of course there are many sides to this issue. I understand the need to generate income for the island - but is this the best way? As a community of people who love Bonaire and are watching as development increases each year, I strongly encourage BT'ers to make your opinions known to Ms. Ronella Croes, General Manager of TCB (Tourism Corporation Bonaire). Contact info for her follows the article:

Cruise tourism expects to grow in the next cruise season

KRALENDIJK – There is a lot of interest for Bonaire, says TCB-director Ronella Croes. “We have noticed that during the Seatrade Cruise Shipping Convention. We had a stand there and a bigger delegation was present; a more active approach.”

Several cruise ship companies have confirmed visiting Bonaire. In addition to that, many other companies and persons showed their interest for the island. There was also a re-introduction of companies that have visited Bonaire before and that have included the island in their schedule again.

Putting this into figures we can say that we can expect a total of 91.000 cruise tourists in the 2006/2007 season, and about 156.000 in 2007/2008. Bonaire has only received 40.000 and 50.000 cruise tourists in the past top years. This means that since we have put Bonaire on this market again in 2005, it’s doing very well. The industry is experiencing a record grow.”

Croes says that the product Bonaire, the need for new islands on the cruise ships routes, TCB’s good service, and the port office’s service to the cruise companies have played an important part in this growth. “During our visit in 2005, we noticed that the people were surprised about what the island has to offer. The tour operators offer a big variety of activities. We have a product that has its charm and unique aspects and is different from other countries in the Caribbean. We have a strong product. Bonaire has also maintained good contacts with the different cruise companies in 2005”, says Croes.

5000 Cruise tourists will come 12 times to Bonaire in the 2007/2008 season. TCB has prepared several projects; for example free training. More information on this will follow. TCB has also conducted a survey that indicated that the average tourist spends 50 to 100 dollars in Bonaire. The survey has to be worked up, so that a representative total can be presented. “Cruise tourism has direct revenue for several sectors in our economy. A fee per passenger will be introduced next season. This means extra income for the island.”

Contact info:

Ms. Ronella Croes, General Manager
Tourism Corporation Bonaire
Kaya Grandi #2
Kralendijk, Bonaire
Netherlands Antilles
email: gm@tourismbonaire.com

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Myers (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #418) on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 9:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have sent a message. It pretty much gives the reasons I come to Bonaire instead of Cozumel. If Bonaire becomes, or attempts to become, another Cozumel it will be a death knell for my kind of tourism to Bonaire. Cozumel made this decision long ago. Dive tourism is now a small part of the local economy; the far greater share come from POD people off the damn big boats. They have killed some terrific reefs to make room for those deep draft ships. Is this what anyone born on bonaire hopes for?

(Message edited by grunt on April 5, 2007)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5305) on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 10:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am interested in what the locals and my friends in Bonaire think of this. I am just a visitor/tourist, also. I feel these questions are sometimes better answered by those affected on a daily basis and not by just another vacationer with a strong opinion (I have one, but it's very selfish..lol) So.... come out come out !!

I think my friends in Bonaire are sometimes afraid to post because they don't want to be flogged for strong opinions, but I think these are things we need to know. Not more tourists just like me, telling them what they need to do. Maybe that's why more locals don't post on BT? Just a thought carried over from a previous thread on which there was a debate about why locals don't post much.

Let them have their say, it is THEIR island. Most of us are just visitors. (not frequently enough I might add.) ;)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4464) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well said Kelly. I second your opinion!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #879) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 7:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Good point Kelly. Also, I wonder if these projections are accurate? How much self and organizational promotion on the part of the General Manager and the TCB are involved in these numbers?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5307) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 8:20 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

oh my gosh, no one ever seconds my opinion.. lol.. I think I am blushing.

I know sometimes I'm not popular but I honestly feel if it was MY neighboorhood and people were posting on an internet site about what I should be doing or what needs to be done, I'd be a little ouchy..

And I thought about something else last night after I went to bed... before I ever visited Bonaire, I could be construed as one of the many 'new' visitors to Bonaire. Be it on a cruise ship, or as a newcomer to a new time-share. I WAS that person about 6 years ago. Bonaire has welcomed me in such a way that I can't explain. Do I want to share it with others? Of course not ! [that's the selfish part]. But I am so very glad that it was shared with me.

Happy Day, all.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Kelly (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:01 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly - I am local and you do have a right to express how you feel about these as much as someone living here.

As expressed by others, they will not come back if cruise ships take over and that affects locals. It can take as many as 50 or more cruise ship passengers to make up economically what one vacationer or one diver spends.

Does Bonaire want masses of cheap people or those who return to Bonaire year after year and have a long lasting appreciation and concern for Bonaire?


When cruise ship people leave they couldn't care less about the island they have visited. Over, done and lets go to the next. Do some return? Yes a few but very few. Nothing even close to what cruise ship companies claim.

Main street (Kaya Grandi) is now blocked off on certain cruise ship days making traffic impossible for those who live here. So for a few hours to make cruise ship people happy we locals have to suffer a lesser quality of life.

Cruise ship companies demand a lot from islands and give little back. They even force policy changes. One example -as divers you all know that in January of 2005 the government informed the dive operators that the Park fee would go to $25 and other would pay $10 starting April 1. Cruise ships, since they are here only one day would pay $2 for general Park use. That would start in November 2005, 11 months to work it all out. By November the cruise ships said they could not and were give until Nov. 2006 - 23 months. 2006 came and they said no and now have until Nov 2007. These people use the Park and pay nothing.

And this from the TCB "We have a product that has its charm and unique aspects and is different from other countries in the Caribbean" is absurd. How can Bonaire remain unique when they hope to have 156,000 day trippers, tourists in the worse sense of the word, arriving here?

As another local has said many times, "They destroyed the very thing they came to see".

It will take years until the Bonaire people realize the mistake they have made. But once again the underlying question is how many people will Bonaire lose to these cruise ships and how much income for the island? A handful of people make money but most get nothing and at best a poorer life style.

One could post articles on how bad these cruise ships are for the make up of an island, what they do what they demand, what they take and what they give back but it would take pages pages. Most can easily be found searching the internet.

I will give one example though. Cruise ships will send employees out to an island when the ship arrives to see where and how their passengers are spending money. If at all possible the cruise ship will then set up such a business on the ship so the passengers do not spend it on that island.

JK

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5308) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:24 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jack, that is exactly the information I was talking about.

I agree... having been to Bonaire 9 times, I have become friends with people there, and spend time with children at the Hoppner house, pick up trash when I see it, just little things like that. I'm sure cruise passengers aren't concerned with leaving Bonaire necessarily as they found it, or helping at the Animal Shelter for the afternoon etc.

You bring up very good points and I hope to hear from more people who live there. This is the dialogue I was hoping for.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5309) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:34 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I forgot to add, since I can feel free to say how I feel... lol... I not optimistic that cruise ships will help Bonaire... I love Bonaire because of it's quaintness, as do so many other BTers and Bonaire visitors. Will cruise ships and increased tourism affect my return to Bonaire? At this point, certainly not. But we'll see what the future holds ! I have made so many friends there though, that I cannot imagine not traveling there and sharing it with my family.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2535) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:34 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Please give us a chance and a bit of credit to manage the influx of cruise passengers and the infrastructure. The merchants and tour companies on island need the business to be able to afford to run their companys year round. For instance, take the taxi drivers who spend a small fortune on the cabs and sit at the airport waiting for fares only to have folks rent cars. That of course is your right but what about those who do not rent cars and are picked up by properties, etc. that no not have permits to do transfers. They need the revenue provided by cruise passengers to pay their bills!
It really is a question that has no simple answer. As a merchant located a good distance from the cruise ships, I receive little direct benefit but the island as a whole does. STINAPA and government are aware of striking the proper balance and Bonaire will not turn into a mass tourism destination anytime soon!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2536) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Please give us a chance and a bit of credit to manage the influx of cruise passengers and the infrastructure. The merchants and tour companies on island need the business to be able to afford to run their companies year round. For instance, take the taxi drivers who spend a small fortune on the cabs and sit at the airport waiting for fares only to have folks rent cars. That of course is your right but what about those who do not rent cars and are picked up by properties, etc. that no not have permits to do transfers. They need the revenue provided by cruise passengers to pay their bills!
It really is a question that has no simple answer. As a merchant located a good distance from the cruise ships, I receive little direct benefit but the island as a whole does. STINAPA and government are aware of striking the proper balance and Bonaire will not turn into a mass tourism destination anytime soon!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #882) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Point taken Jack. We stopped diving Cozumel and started diving Bonaire 7 years ago because of the flood of cruise ships that started showing up on Cozumel. I can't imagine this happening on Bonaire to the extent that it has Cozumel but if it does I join you in believing that Bonaire will begin to lose its main source of revenue - divers.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Myers (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #419) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 11:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Marcus, re:Cozumel your experience exactly parallels mine, and at the same time frame. San Miguel now looks pretty much like every other cruise destination...the same brand of shops, chain eateries, etc. From my viewpoint I only hope that is not the future of Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rosanne (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1308) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 11:26 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have very mixed feelings about this, I'm glad some people living on Bonaire chimed in here. I have very selfish reasons to dislike the cruise ships coming to Bonaire and understand the economic impact if they do. As someone stated, no easy solution exists. I want the people of Bonaire to flourish and prosper, will the cruise ships help that quest? Only time will tell.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Kelly (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 11:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

"Please give us a chance and a bit of credit.. "

You obviously have done very little or no research on cruise ships.

You are willing to have dedicated customers who spend thousands, leave Bonaire for good, for people who leave a few dollars?

Anyone, ANYONE who started a business and then say they have to have cruise ships to now survive should not have started that business to begin.

You need to do EXTENSIVE research on other cruise ship destinations, read the numerous books on cruise ships (not written by cruise ship companies ) to see what this is all about and what will happen.

Have you ever read about the taxis parked in a field waiting for cruise ships on one island? Of course you have not.

Have you read that one island has 80 % of its tourists from cruise ships but it only makes up 25% of that islands income? Of course you have not. And that island realized, after 20 years, that that was the cause of their hotel occupancy rate going down. They are now wise and are reversing this trend. Anyone smart enough on Bonaire to realize this now?

J

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Schamp (BonaireTalker - Post #80) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 12:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The Cozumel situation is sad, yes. I'll go there for diving again, but as last time, for just 4 days or so, from Friday through Monday, when the cruise ships are mostly back in home ports, reloading.

Even though I've done a Caribbean cruise myself a few times, I still consider the arrival of a cruise ship at a small island to be analogous to a plague of locusts!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Word (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We are taking our first trip to Bonaire in August. Hooray!

One of the things that we like about that time of year is the lack of cruise ships in the Caribbean, in fact, I checked the Bonaire cruise schedules when we booked and only small ships will be there then so that's a huge selling point for weeklong tourists like us.

Our experience is limited as we've only been to one other island thus far, St. Croix (no cruise ships go there anymore in part because the passengers and crew kept getting robbed!)

We picked Bonaire, at least in small part, because it wan't a huge cruise ship destination. Sure hope it doesn't become one.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1474) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:20 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So far, cruise ships would not keep me from going back to Bonaire. I would however try to schedule my visit when there would be no cruise ship in, and if that was not possible I would avoid the down town area while the cruise ship is in. Most of my time is spent underwater so I am not that concerned.

Note: My last trip I was effected by a cruise ship being in, I could not do a night snorkel of town pier with Dee. I still greatly enjoyed my snorkel with her else where.

I am interested in how many BTers will say they would not go back to Bonaire due to the cruise ships. Then again, we are already repeat visitors who love it. The question will be how might this effect potential new divers/visitors deciding to come or not?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5310) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Denise, that is a very good point. Or maybe people who have only been to Bonaire once or twice, will they find their paradise elsewhere? I cannot imagine going anywhere but Bonaire for my big vacations... but I also cannot imagine Bonaire with people everywhere on any given day. The cams freak me out when the big ships are in town.. lol..

I did a several dives with Bas at Cai in Feb., and we could see the top of the Crown Princess from Cai ! How crazy is that.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #884) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 1:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I won't stop going to Bonaire like I did Cozumel just because of cruise ships - but that doesn't mean I'm ambivalent about all kinds of cruise ships docking in Bonaire; it means I love Bonaire Shore Diving enough to hold my nose and tolerate the cruise ships because basically there will be no choice but to tolerate the cruise ships if you want to keep going to Bonaire correct? Its a loaded question that makes it look like if you say you'll keep going to Bonaire, that somehow infers your okay with the cruise ships which I'm not.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5313) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 2:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Part of what keeps me from going back to Cozumel is the annoying people in the streets that accost you... if Bonaire gets 'bigger' and there are more tourists and time-share salesmen - or people who approach you on the street - that would be a huge turn off for me. I shouldn't say this and I knock wood as I do, but I just can't picture Bonaire like that.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2664) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 2:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

When the ships are in I avoid Sorobon due to the crowds. That's for sure. Having lived in Antigua I can say MOST complain about the influx of tourists during cruise ship visits. They do not eat out typically (as their meals are included), our island is NOT a shopping haven so they will no doubt spend the bulk of their dollars in places like St. Thomas and Sint Maarten, they will damage the reefs unless the dive companies increase their staff to monitor the waters. Just the other day I was at Donkey Beach during the cruise ship visit and saw tourists standing on the reef talking to each other.

Moderation is essential as well as a impact study. I trust STINAPA, TCB and others will decide well for all of us. Just keep in mind, we have 4 story buildings on the waterfront now and an all inclusive coming. Change is happening for sure. We have a building boom since my first visit and daily I am in traffic jams that were non existent in 2001 when I first came...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Davison (BonaireTalker - Post #73) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 2:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ahhh there's nothing like a good hurricane or two to improve and island? Voila .. a few piers destroyed and it cut the POD people down to almost nothing. Cozumel since Wilma has been GREAT! We've been back 5 times since Wilma (including a visit only a month or so after Wilma) and found the island absolutely wonderful. Just like the 80's. (without the lobster during the surface intervals <vbg>)

I love Bonaire and have been many times since the mid-80's. It's certaintly grown since then as well. Some good and some not. Change and growth are inevitable. Yes that means more cruise ships. Maybe with more POD folks paying .50/$1 a day towards the Marine Park would allow them to reduce the higher fee to those of us priveleged to be on the island for a week or more several times a year. Probably not. Not to mention the new higher departure tax.

Conversely, even with Bonaire's growth I find it more difficult to get to Bonaire today (reasonably) than to most other dive destinations in the Caribbean.

Bob (trying to find a reasonable way to get a group to Bonaire this December! (or back to CZM in a pinch)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1476) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 3:26 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

"Its a loaded question that makes it look like if you say you'll keep going to Bonaire, that somehow infers your okay with the cruise ships which I'm not. " ... I was not addressing if you or anybody else who already goes to Bonaire is OK with it, I was addressing the effect of loss of business due to Cruise Ships.

I would course prefer to not see them on Bonaire, or to be effected by them when I am on Bonaire. I miss the Bonaire I first visited many years ago. (but still love being there when I can) But I also want what is best financially, environmentally, and personally for those who live on Bonaire, may of whom have become my friends over the years. And I don't have the facts to feel I know what is best for them.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Gnann (BonaireTalker - Post #66) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 3:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I absolutely respect the right of the people of Bonaire and their government to find ways to improve cash flow. I just hope they go about it in a thoughtful and deliberate way.

However, I hope that the good folks of Bonaire will also keep in mind that the reason so many of us return to Bonaire again and again is that Bonaire offers a unique experience for dive travelers. The bucolic atmosphere and "diving freedom" make Bonaire a paradise. At least in the past, I have not been bowled over by surging masses of POD people on Bonaire. I have not had to shoo away annoying time-share salesmen. I have not had to put up with a Carlos & Charlies's or Margaritaville. But if that happens, I'll take my vacation bucks and go somewhere else.

Grand Turk was also a favorite destination of ours for many of the same reasons - a very friendly and unpretentious place. But Grand Turk has now sold out to the cruise ships. On our last trip to Grand Turk, we were enjoying an excellent dive along the wall when we began to hear a peculiar buzzing noise that got louder and louder. Then, right above us appeared a swarm (26 by actual count)of snorkelers with powered scooters being herded around by 3 personal watercraft. I'm sure they were all having a good time, but it certainly ruined the dive experience for me. We won't be going back to Grand Turk and we're keeping our fingers crossed that Bonaire has the wisdom not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2537) on Friday, April 6, 2007 - 3:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jack my friend. I have lived here 22 years and for the past 15 have been working with TCB as a consultant and really think you also don't have a clue as to the people and culture of Bonaire. It really frosts me when someone who thinks they know our island and make judgements as to how we should run it! Just how long have you lived here, Jack? It may take a few years to learn that the island can police itself and has done so for many years. My research my friend has been confined to the island, however, I don't live in a vacuum and know how to read the volumes of reports and statistics that come across my "desk". I will not comment further on this topic as it will become self evident that all the visitors can coexist and all the sectors can flourish.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #842) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 7:03 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Life is always filled with changes. The first time I visited Bonaire was in 1985 & the island is much different today. Honestly,I think most of the changes I've seen over the past 20 years have been positive.

I am no fan of the cruise ships; personally would never take one & eschew them (& their passengers) whenever possible. I realize the cruise ship industry is expanding at a rapid pace & they need more ports of call to add to their itinerary. I suspect this is the major factor behind the increased schedule.

I sincerely hope the Bonairean economy is being well compensated for allowing them to dock & no environmental damage ensures. But personally I think I (and any land based tourist) contribute much more to the local economy then any of the "pod people".

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Reilly (BonaireTalker - Post #54) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 8:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

As a professional City and Regional Planner, I have been concerned about the possible impacts of growth on both the island's infrastructure and it's natural marine systems. I see the development of the cruise industry as another form of development.

I have felt for some time that the citizens, business community and government of the island need to secure world-class professional assistance to properly vision what growth alternatives are realistic and affordable. I have tried on several trip to encourage locals to secure the assistance of the International Association of City and Regional Planners (ISOCARP). ISOCARP offers such a service and I feel reasonably comfortable that a Dutch planning grant can be secured to defray the direct costs associated for this effort - the members of the organization contribute their time for free.

I hope the moderators view this as an effort to inform folks of an opportunity. ISOCARP is a non-for-profit headquartered in the Netherlands. It is recognized by the Council of Europe, the UN and UNESCO. My only interest in this is that I'm a member of ISOCARP and know from personal experience that this service would greatly benefit the island.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #620) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 9:15 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

My feelings about cruise ships are also in two directions ... the No comes when I see these masses of people in the Kaya Grandi, at Sorobon , at the Donkey Beach ... the small cruise ships as we had in the past fitted much better with the live on Bonaire than these monsters we get now .... but the Yes is there too , we had and even have at the moment guests who learned and saw Bonaire because they were on a cruise ship (Aida) and now they spend a 3 weeks snorkling vacation with us. And I would think we are not the only lodging profiting from cruise ship passengers....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech/Bonaire Insider (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6082) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 9:45 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm with Brigitte on this.

Personally I find the large cruise ships and the hordes of "cattle" they deposit on Bonaire very distasteful - the closing of downtown, the increase in traffic in places I drive, the annoyance with stupid cruise ship tourists tossing cigarette butts and garbage on my clean streets and/or stepping into the streets without looking, and their innate cheapness when shopping or "dining" (basically blocking a table at a restaurant from paying diners so that they can have a one dollar soft drink). (Note that the last two observations are both personal as well as in many years' worth of discussions with downtown merchants and restauranteurs.) It also frosts me that STINAPA will not enforce the $2/day Marine Park fee for the cruise ship cattle.

But there are certainly certain segments of Bonaire's tourism industry, most notably taxis and tour companies, as well as those providing excursions (Woodwind, Samur, etc.) and certain services (e.g. nearby dive shops), who benefit significantly from cruise ship cattle - and this keeps businesses that might otherwise have difficulties surviving throughout the slow parts of the year.

And yes, there will be that one in a thousand visitor who will came back as a proper tourist - by plane - and stay a week or more. The one real cruise Linda and I did back in the late 80s introduced us to Cozumel and Grand Cayman, and as a result of those cruise ship cattle visits, we went back numerous times as real tourists. (And for the same reason we never went back to Jamaica as real tourists - didn't like it a bit.)

I just find that when a cruise ship is in (something that can be seen from miles away in the flat part of the island) I do my best to avoid downtown and other areas where my enjoyment of Bonaire (with only a meager 10 years on the island compared to Michael's eons) would be diminished by encountering the cattle.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2540) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 2:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

eons! give me a break! How 'bout decades?
Also Jake, you need to get your facts straight before you become too frosted...It was the government who makes the laws and it was government who asked that cruise ship passengers be exempt from the fee until next cruise ship season when the head tax takes effect. I spoke with the director of STINAPA to be sure I had my facts in order before posting this. Stinapa was against allowing any special interest groups to avoid paying their fair share. With your "meager 10 years" here you should know how government works and also that it is best to have your facts in order before making comments

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5920) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 4:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am not thrilled with this whole idea at all. I'm only a visitor but if it starts to affect the quality of the visits then changes will most likely be made on "our" end when it comes to future visits. I can't see how folks trampling on the corals and cramming the few "beaches" on Bonaire are going to be good for the island or anyone. As others have said, once the pods folks go back up the plank, they will forget all about Bonaire and will only compare their photos to those of their other stops during their cruise.

Just my opinion. cb

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech/Bonaire Insider (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6084) on Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 7:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Decades, eons - big diff Michael.

STINAPA should make more of a stink, and the Bonaire Government shouldn't pander to cruise ship interests.

And regardless who is to blame it still frosts me, even with my ten years on Bonaire.

My apologies for offending you with my opinion, oh omnipotent all knowing one.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2541) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 8:31 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake, that has always been an issue of mine when some people who should know better pass on information that is not correct and make people, such as STINAPA, look bad when they do indeed fight hard for the island and are roundly criticized by people who are in a position of "authority" such as yourself. Your glib comment should have been an apology, not to me but to Elsmarie, for lumping her with the politicians who have other agendas. By the way, STINAPA did make a stink and they were heard and that is why the fee will be incorporated in the head tax that will be levied in November. Hopefully this will be the end of the "discussion" but I have never known you not to have the last word, even if it is a retraction.
fyi EON
Etymology: Latin, from Greek
1 : an immeasurably or indefinitely long period of time : AGE
2 a usually eon : a very large division of geologic time usually longer than an era b : a unit of geologic time equal to one billion years
and as we all know a decade is 10 years

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech/Bonaire Insider (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6085) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 10:27 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Michael,

Just because things have "always" been done a certain way somewhere like Bonaire, does not always mean it's the best or right way. You and I have frequently disagreed on status quo issues, and I'm pretty sure we both still think the other is wrong. Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, your definition of "eon" only supports my perception that you have lived on Bonaire eons longer than I :-)

In any event, your attack on my opinion is a nice way for you to deflect attention from the actual discussion at hand here - namely the increase in cruise ship tourism and whether it's bad or good for Bonaire or not. That really is the topic at hand, and not whether you disagree, either personally or as a paid consultant from the Tourism Corporation Bonaire, with my position on what STINAPA and the Bonaire Government should or should not be doing regarding a BMP user fee for cruise ship cattle or pod people (whichever label you prefer over the other).

In any event, please don't hurt yourself by falling off your high horse.

And those are my last words on this thread as I need to get back to Linda's hospital room. She's hopefully getting released in the next few hours. You can have your inevitable last words now.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2546) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 10:46 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

see what i mean about last words...I rest my case! Hope Linda recovers quickly..

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2537) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 7:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Oh, for heaven's sake (especially on this holiday! :–) ), both of you.

I believe it is now in order for both of you to apologize to the rest of us. And the one of you who has the last word doing that is an ugly toad!

(Message edited by glenr on April 8, 2007)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #79) on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 10:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi again everyone,

Thanks to all who have responded so far. This is obviously a complex and emotional issue, and I am glad that it is being discussed from multiple viewpoints. I do feel that everyone is entitled to weigh in - tourists and locals alike - as it is an issue related to tourism and as such, encompasses everyone, although in different ways.

James, I am very interested in what you mentioned about ISOCARP. Could you please tell us more about how the program works and how it can be implemented? Also, does anyone have any opinions as to whether or not this seems like a good idea for Bonaire and if so, suggestions as to whom on Bonaire (I assume in local government) it would be appropriate to approach regarding ISOCARP programs and services? This sounds like it could be a valuable resource for the island.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Matthew White (BonaireTalker - Post #11) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 1:07 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi All:
This is the letter that I sent to MS. Croes in response on 4/5 the following response:
Dear Mr. White,

I want to sincerely thank you for taking time to write showing your concern about Bonaire and her future.

Please be assured that we take your comments seriously and will work hard to see that all the issues are addressed.

Happy Easter.

Ronella Croes

Director
Tourism Corporation Bonaire
E-mail: gm@tourismbonaire.com

Kaya Grandi # 2, Kralendijk

T: +599 717-8322

C: +599 786-8322

F: +599 717-8408



www.infobonaire.com

www.bonaireregatta.com

www.bonairejazz.com

check out new stream video's @

www.visitbonaire.tv, www.visitbonaire.tv/dive, www.visitbonaire.tv/kite









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: whitebuddyholly@aol.com [mailto:whitebuddyholly@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 07:47 PM
To: gm@tourismbonaire.com
Subject: Increase in Cruiseship Visits to Bonaire


Hello Ms. Croes:
I reciently read on Bonaire Talk that Bonaire is increasing the visitation of cruise ships to the island. I realize that for an island such as Bonaire, that tourism is a vital part of the economy and understand the need to grow the most important industry. I have to tell you; however, that Bonaire will benefit less from this source than the figures seem on the surface. There are islands in the Caribbean and around the world that have lost their identity and charm due to this industry. Bonaire is a land of abundant natural wonders and a tranquility all to it's own. If it is the people of Bonaire that this idea is supposed to bennefit than the idea is flawed. By and large the general population of busy Cruise Ports do not benefit at all. It is mostly the wealthy investers in projects that support this industry that bennefit. For the common citizen, fragile resources are depleated, cost of living goes up and cultures are deminished or destroyed. Please spend as much time and resourse as you have obviously spent on courting this industry to get the real facts. I recommend that you and your staff create a resonable expense account that will allow you to travel to heavily impacted ports in the Caribbean such as Cozumel and interview the common people and ask them how the cruise travel industry has bennefitted them. I also would recommend that you survey airline passengers to the island and ask their opinion with a survey.
Sincerely
Patrick White

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #846) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 6:19 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Very interesting thread!
**Glenn** Personally I really don't think any apologies are required by anyone.. People have different points of view and are passionate about different issues. And it's interesting to read them. A little sarcasm & humor can be entertaining..If everyone agreed it would be a dull world. :-) Of course, that's just my 2 cents

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Schuko (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 12:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

this discussion remember me to the 'locust'-discussion at home.
corporations, looking for investment returns, conquering the (is)land,
a hand full of people make the big money and if they exploited the (is)land they go to the next,
leaving behind a profitless, destroyed (is)land
i hope bonaire will not make this mistake...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2538) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 2:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Vince,

I agree that differences of opinion and passion about them are good things and a little sarcasm & humor can be entertaining. I objected to the ad hominem attacks on each other about who was to have the last word at the end of the day. We don't need that on BT.

Since I count both of Michael and Jake as longtime, and good, friends and because I am the 'elder' among the three of us, I took the liberty of commenting. :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2550) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 4:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

ah..the voice of reason...yes Glenn, you can stay at my house for a week when you come..

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim McPeak (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #662) on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 6:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Again, this thread just shows the extreme passion that people, including me, feel about this very special island. Sir Thomas More once wrote an incredible piece about Utopia. It was a play on words about an imaginary island. It was a combination of "good place" and "no place." I think that all of us would want Bonaire to stay the exact same place that we first visited, whenever that first visit was. However, time really does not stand still for anyone, or any island.

Bonaire has already, by many of our standards, gone through extreme growing pains. The new four story buildings are an example of something many of us thought would never happen. Are they a harbinger of other things to come? Who knows. I can only pray that people who make decisions, including the new Netherlands era, will make constructive and decisive moves that will only benefit the people and incredible ecosystem of our Utopia.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2670) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:16 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Interesting read

http://www.caycompass.com/cgi-bin/CFPnews.cgi?ID=1021130

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #24) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I've just got back from Bonaire. I was foolish enough to take a trip into town last week without realising that the supposedly prestigious "Queen Mary 2" was visiting. The place was packed - mainly by badly-dressed, overweight, elderly cruise passengers who were clogging up the streets, bars and shops but didn't look to me as if they were spending much money. The local people will certainly have their say, but the TCB's ambitions may well be difficult to resist and I fear that the charm of Kralendijk will be permanently spoiled. This would be to the ultimate detriment of the real tourist business.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mara, Mara -she's here somewhere (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2009) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Very interesting Ann - thanks for sharing.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mickey McCarthy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #378) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The thing that struck me most in a quick glance of the article Ann pointed out is the annual tourist number, 400,000!
And Grand Cayman is 76 square miles while Bonaire is 111 square miles.
Mick

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sorrows (BonaireTalker - Post #58) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We just came back from a week at Cozumel; we made the mistake of going into town one afternoon and it was HORRIBLE. Spent the rest of the week either on the reefs or at the hotel. There was not a single day when there wasn't a cruise ship in port; one day we counted SIX.

I think Bonaire will be even more adversely affected by the Cruise Ship explosion than Cozumel because of its unique and outstanding shore diving. Think about it: in Cozumel you can insulate yourself to some degree from the awfulness of the cruise ships. But in Bonaire, you're driving around, out and about. The roads will be more congested. Forget about shopping at the cultimara. Cheap shops and time-share hawkers and trash. Your fave shore dive? Hordes of day tripping snorkelers. Suffice to say that petty crime, already a problem on Bonaire, will increase.

This sounds like a done deal. It's coming, whether we like it or not. I'm guessing our only recourse is to go to Bonaire while the going is still good. (That's not until Christmas for us.)

I'd looked forward to becoming one of those Bonaire "been coming here for 12 years now" regulars but I guess that isn't going to happen.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jan Klos - ( Hamlet Bonaire #10) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #474) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Peter, What fashion magazine, clothing retail or manufacturer do you work for that you can be such a critic as to the way people dress?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denise K (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1481) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 1:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.bonaireinsider.com/pdfs/20060905-BonaireTourismStatistics-2006-FirstHalf.pdf Some interesting Bonaire tourism stats should you be interested.

Notice that length of stays is up. For me in particular that is due to the long flight time from/to US I lose a full day of diving on either end so I try to stay a little longer than in years past.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 1:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan, if you looked at my profile, you'd see I'm far too old to work in the fashion business!

But, you know, the Queen Mary 2 is supposed to be one of the better cruise ships, and that naturally leads to a certain degree of anticipation that the passengers will be a cut above the average. From what I saw, they weren't.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Carbo (BonaireTalker - Post #70) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 2:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan,
Having met Peter, his wife, and their friend last week at our resort, I would say their taste in fashion is far beyond that of the normal cruise ship passenger I met on the streets of Bonaire...;0)

Peter,
Hello to you and the Mrs......

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mickey McCarthy (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #379) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 2:57 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Denise
If I am reading things correctly its looks like there was, for some reason a big jump in visitors from Brazil in April. A total mystery to me. Maybe some different advertising?
Mick

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Banker (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

There is very little shore diving in Grand Cayman. Cruise ships arrive around 6AM and are all gone by 6PM, so the downtown restaurants are not crowded and the traffic isn't too bad. We are diving in the morning and afternoon, and cruise shippers don't do that; so we don't feel the effects from the 6-7 ships in port on winter days. There also aren't any ships on weekends, and few in the summer. Having said that, Grand Cayman has roads that let you get around George Town going north or south; I'm not sure how to easily avoid Kralendijk going from resorts in the north to dive sites in the south.

Cruise shippers pile on lots of busses and go to tourist places around Grand Cayman such as the post office in Hell, the public beach, and the Turtle Farm; there was even a wedding once on the small beach where our dive boat docked. But it's hot, and the passengers quickly get back on the air conditioned busses. There are also a lot of them visiting Sandbar to snorkle with Southern Sting Rays. They haven't adversely affected our dive experience and we have been there many times. The walls are amazing. Think about dropping something and knowing it wouldn't hit bottom for several thousand feet!

Cruise ships would change how we would move around Bonaire - we would use avoidance techniques - but will not affect whether or not we come down to dive. We love the freedom to dive whenever and wherever we please.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #80) on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ann and Denise, Very interesting reading, thanks for posting the links!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #26) on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 3:30 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Mark, saw your trip report and glad you & Betsy enjoyed your stay! Hope to see you there another time.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #117) on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 8:03 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Friday the 20th the locals can do their saying on this. If you like this to become a daily event give these guys another term. If not make them leave the office !!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joanie (BonaireTalker - Post #35) on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 1:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Was really surprised to read article in Bonaire Reporter, stating that a cruise ship blocked delivery of food to the Island last week. I guess the Island is already impacted by the cruise ships.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #118) on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 7:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah, right. I seriously doubt that this story is true. We get like one cruiseship docking here per week and that happens to block 'the food supply'. Ha !!! This is by far the best excuse for mismanagement and lousy stock controle I have heard in years !!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2564) on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 8:29 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Listen to the voice of reason. Yes, Menno, the folks from Don Andreas, are making "waves" about docking space and using the media to publicize their agenda. As usual, the Reporter prints what ever comes out of the box without doing any in depth research (sort of par for the course for newspapers). As yet, all the facts are not in yet re the docking space problem.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MadMan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #125) on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Don Andres made noise cause they had a short and busy week (Good friday and easter monday) and a cruise ship in port almost every day so they could only unload at night and instead of making 4 trips to Curacao to pickup the containers they could only get 2 trips in. Menno says this is an excuse for mis-mangement? That is a little too much. If you are counting on one or more container(s) coming in each week and they simply don't show, your gone, you start running out of stuff right away f.i. fresh vegetables chilled meats etc. Nothing you can do about it. There is no affordable alternative route. And a lot of the time it makes no sense to stock larger amounts for longer period etc. because of the best by dates. Yes all Don Andres is doing is making noise. They were promised a solution and to date no change has taken place. All there has been is talk of moving the container traffic to an other (new) location. We'll wait and see.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Menno (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #119) on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 7:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Good friday happened before. Easter Monday too. I have heard rumors that for next year they have big plans for having these days again ......
Let's just hope for 'management's sake' that there will be no cruise ship in port ....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #86) on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here is a link to a very interesting and scary video documentary about wastewater generated by the Freewinds cruise ship. Please watch it and think about the impact that even more of these ships will have on Bonaire given the present state of wastewater disposal on island. Go to: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ajnukeykjc&amp;nr=1>

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter (BonaireTalker - Post #28) on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

That link didn't work for me. Try this one.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #89) on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 6:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Peter, I don't know why that link didn't work but you saved it!

For another dimension of this discussion, go to the "Local Items" topic on BT and look at the new "Waste Water on Bonaire" thread for some very interesting and diverse opinions, and a great link to the research that Captain Don has done on this subject.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dalena Bressler (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'll be arriving on my second trip to Bonaire next week. One of the reasons my husband and I are coming back is because Bonaire is so quaint and caters to us divers. I don't want to go to Cozumel because of the cruise ships and the masses they bring. I would rather see the tourists that come back year after year rather than the "flash in the pan" type that think that Bonaire is just another island. Is there a way to stop this?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2596) on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 9:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Please take note...the cruise ships are gone until next season..we have the Freewinds, the Windjammer and an odd small ship on occasion for the next few months!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5967) on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 7:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Amen, Michael! See you very soon. cb

 


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