I'm at Buddy Dive right now. All week, we've seen fishing going on in front of Buddy Dive and in front of Sand dollar and in front to Capt Don's. every morning, right along the reef edge, small boats, charter boats, kids swimming along with a snorkel and a line.

What's going on? It is inside the 200-foot contour, it is between Hato and the Plaza.

If this is a no-fishing zone, it is a joke.

Sad but true. If reported, and from what I have heard (yep, hear-say...), that happened lot's and lot's of times, there is absolutely no action taken or whatsoever.
It seems only to refer to dynamite fishing being not allowed.....:-))

The problem is the loss of the grazing fish-the fish that eats algae and other stuff from the reef.

Humans can make local contribitions to save the reef in three ways:

1-Save the grazing fish
2-Stop mechanical damage, silt from construction, etc
3-Stop water pollution

Would a phone call to STINAPA help? Would the park rangers come out and "talk" with them?

Illegal fishing is being done when Stinapa is closed and not able to come check the illegal act. I have seen a reduction in fishing along in front of Sand Dollar, Front Porch and Buddy and Capt Dons, but only during Marine Park/Stinapa office hours. Why aren't you people calling?? or taking a photograph showing identification number of the illegal boat if you see illegal fishing by boat or by shore, or snorkel fishing (as bad as spear-fishing on the selected species). You then have a complaint if nothing is done and direct it at Stinapa. Until then-don't complain.

Jerry, just for clarification, is snorkel-fishing banned all over or just in the no-fish zone? At one point, I recall Elsmarie saying that snorkel-fishing was going to be completely banned--if it hasn't happened, we should lobby STINAPA to get it done because it is another scourge on the reef!

Jerry, with all due respect, I don't think it is my role to call STINAPA and complain. That should be done by the resorts and the locals. We visitors get crapped on enough for telling Bonaire how to manage its affairs....

And what do you think would happen if I took a picture and complained? Exactly nothing. I have no faith that any rules are enforced except for gloves. What a waste of effort. Stop the fishing and the sewage, not the gloves.

I'm home now. Next visit is May. I hope there are still some live coral and fish.

I have to agree with Jerry, take pics and notify STINAPA. Yes, we are vacationers, however, STINAPA can't be everywhere all the time. As Bonaire Ambassadors I think we have the right and duty to notify the proper authorities.

I'm with Tink and Jerry.

If you choose not to be part of the solution, you are effectively part of the problem.

If you won't 'complain' to STINAPA, please spare us.

Glen, Tink:
Have you ever complained/commented/reported to STINAPA on anything?
What was the response?

You don’t need to call Stinapa to complain but to notify there is illegal fishing going on.
Call them and ask for Raymond de Leon, he is the only one who will make sure action is being taken.
I have to say they have a lot of work to do, so there are way’s you can help.
Ask the people friendly to stop their activities, take picture and notations of who, where, when hand how.
Write a blog to The Bonaire reporter, mail the same to stinapa, Extra, and Bonaire talk.
Pictures work really well especially if these people see their own pics in the Extra Newspaper they will not be happy.

Maybe I'll do all this my next visit....I'm sure I could stay busy all day just reporting stuff, and then I wouldn't even need to dive while there.

Maybe someone who lives there should do it.

Maybe one of the hundreds of people who see this EVERY day should do it.

Maybe someone ought to produce some evidence that it is worth the effort to do it.

Maybe I shouldn't be turned into the bad guy because I didn't call STINAPA and take pictures. Has any of you ever done that?

Maybe I'm in a really bad mood.

We do it all the time

I am with you Mel. Tourists are here to enjoy themselves not to replace people (read MP rangers) who don't do their job's properly. It is Stinapa's job to check upon users (paying guests!!) to THEIR park(s) and to enforce THEIR regulations. They do like it to turn things around, just like they don't even sell THEIR own entrance tag's. All they do is check if you paid (so, all they really do is to check if the dive-shops did THEIR work for them) - non of them seen to even care about if you, or anyone else for that matter, apply THEIR regulations.

I hope I am wrong here, but a year or so ago I asked about the "no fishing" rule after seeing a dingy tied to a dive buoy at one of the Andreas and the occupants were casting about. As I recall, I was told that the reserve does not have a total ban on fishing. It was allowable to fish within the reserve with a pole and line. In fact, I have been diving at sites and had hooks and lines bounce by me as they were being retrieved. Is it possible that fishing is only restricted to commercial fisherman?

OK to set the record straight here..From STINAPA.

[ Bait fishing and trolling will be allowed within the zones, but what is locally known as “bottom fishing” will be prohibited.]
They go on to define baitfishing..
[t is forbidden to fish with the only exception of collecting baitfish. Baitfish are defined as;

* Masbangu (Selar crumenopthalmus), bigger than 8 centimeters, measured from the front of the head, to the backside of the tail.
* Boka Largu (Hemiramphus baiao), bigger than 20 centimeters, measured from the end of the lower jaw, to the backside of the tail.
* oulo (Decapterus ponctatus) bigger than 15 centimeters, measured from the front of the head, to the backside of the tail.]


So there you have it.. See this URL for additional details..
http://www.bmp.org/fpa.html

The Stinapa info is a bit unclear. They say fishing is prohibited except for baitfishing and trolling, bottom fishing is not allowed. Since there is no definition of bottom fishing, can I assume they mean if you are stopped and using a line with a sinker, you are in violation but if you are moving/trolling, it is ok? It's their island, but if they are serious about maintaining the islands fish stock, it would seem they should maintain some areas where fishing is strictly prohibited.

The no fishing zone in this case is a completely ineffective regulation. I said so in another thread. First of all the location. Between all the docks, jetty's, piers and houses, boats, swimmers and sea traffic, you just simply cannot see all 'trespassers'. Second they are too small. At the time of the discussion as to where the no fishing zone should be located, I proposed to Leon all the waters around Klein Bonaire. Easy to check, easy to control, and large enough. Leon (BNMP manager) was all for it but thought it would not pass the legislature. Three, the reefs in front of town are in a really bad shape, especially the shallows, vital habitat for the off spring of any reef fish. Fourth, if the ban allows for exceptions in both species and fishing methods it is simply not a ban at all imho, if nothing else because if you take the biomass (food) away, what will the poor little fry and their parents )-: eat? To boot, those exceptions make control virtually impossible, as we experienced just after a CURO (dive operator association) meeting. We saw a perpetrator, called Leon, who DID show up although it was after hours, but couldn't prove the guy was bottom fishing, or trolling, rather than bait fishing. IE..... this no fishing zone was a failed attempt to protect nature, IMHO just another half a*s measure. What is sadly funny to me, is the comparison to a land park. Let's compare the marine park to the serengeti. Let's protect all the land, but you are free to shoot all the animals????? Shoot he elephants, shoot the wildebeests, shoot the giraffes, a free for all! Funny? it is exactly what is happening in the BNMP with its animals!

Well Bart..your posting makes WAY too much sense. I thought that our politicians in the U.S. were VERY adept at this type of legislation. But I see they've got some competition. It enables them to play both sides of the fence. Sadly, this type of thing is not confined to the U.S.
The aforementioned which I quoted above does indeed have more loopholes in it than swiss cheese.

Yes, what is the point of having rules, laws, and ordinances if they aren't enforced? Such lack of enforcement makes everyone laugh in STINAPA's face! And I suppose a major problem with enforcement on Bonaire is that familiarity between the culprits and the enforcers results in no fines, etc., just looking the other way.

After all, there are laws on the books prohibiting dumping on the reefs and pollution, yet for 20 years, hotels have been releasing their sewage on the reef, so why haven't they been arrested? And, Why does the Freewinds keep returning and dumping its sewage on the island?

STINAPA has become a big joke--banning gloves, collecting batteries, planting trees--all worthwhile efforts in themselves but the major problems of sewage and overfishing, they have no power to change. In my opinion, they have become more of "window dressing" for the island, making it seem "green" and "environmentally sensitive" when in reality they are ineffectual in addressing the major local threats to Bonaire's reefs and ecology.

True, but not fair to point to the hotels only for polluting. Non of the houses, apartments, condo's or how you want to call buildings on Bonaire are connected to a sewage system so every time you flush you pollute!!!. Your house included Pauline!
To be able to be connected it has to be there first..... This seems to be the chicken and the egg story......
Are you attending tonight Pauline at the sports complex??? There you can speak out (at least I believe that can be done) directly to the ones who are in charge and responsible!!!

Pauline, your post is most unfair! 1/You are a culprit as well simply by leaving your own footprint. You are not being prosecuted, are you? 2/STINAPA is more than willing to enforce, but simply lack the means. If you truly study the rules, laws, and ordinances you will see that they are mostly unenforcable, incomplete, and in some cases even wildly inappropriate. The no fishing zone is a fine example of useless legislation. That does not make STINAPA unwilling but ineffective by default. Accusing them of willingly looking the other way is slanderous. 3/ Just about all hotels are not just willing to abide by, but insisting on stricter laws and better facilities, than are now proposed by the legislature. Besides that your post insinuates that hotels dump all of their sewage directly in the sea, wich is so far from the truth, it isn't even funny. Blaming and singling out hotels for not using infrastructure that is not there, makes your post Don Quichottish. 4/ Almost nowhere, regardless of source, do I find a mention that many of the environmental challenges, are from external causes, from storms to CO2.

Regardless, your crusade against the bad management of Bonaire's natural resources, does not help, because of your approach. The problem cannot be addressed effectively behind a computer, wildly laying blame everywhere, often unfairly. It is simply not constructive.

The above doesn't mean, that I don't agree that action must be taken, solutions must be found, yesterday rather than tomorrow, as it has always been since the arrival of man. I'll see you on the barricades.

Bart, Yes, I totally agree that my septic tank also contributes as does everyone's. However, the sheer volume of sewage produced by the hotels and their proximity to the sea make them the most important structures to address immediately.

And, pardon me, if I disagree that the hotels are "willing to abide by..." If that is so, why have they fought the sewage treatment plan for almost 20 years? Why do they even today fight the interim proposal to pay for trucking their sewage regularly to the portable sewage treatment plant (supposedly to arrive in the next months)?

If the hotels and the tourist board had vigorously supported the sewage plan to begin with, it would have happened and the reefs would not be as, Brian La Pointe, marine biologist described two years ago, "at the point of no return," because of nutrient pollution, not storms, etc.

Again Pauline, you are pointing your lance in the wrong direction.

Point your lance towards our government. Insist at the CNB (Commission nature policy). Point your lance especially towards the island council. Point your lance towards the RSC, the dutch office preparing the constitutional changes, point your lance towards dutch politicians concerned, and do it there, sur place, rather than on fun little boards such as BT or entertaining english tabloids, coz these don't reach any of the powers that be. Tell them WE NEED SEWAGE TREATMENT! NOW! Maybe that lance may then become an effective tool, rather than for charging windmills.

And if you do that, and get educated in the process, you will find that "the hotels" as well as the "tourist board" as well as so many others have long fought FOR countless solutions, including sewage, rather than against them as you assume and already waaaaay longer than the 20 years you keep mentioning.

And if that happens you will find out that you are, in fact, all of a sudden cooperating towards the same goal, rather than blaming unjustly.

By the way, entirely my opinion.

Bart, I have lobbied those government groups you speak of. But I think you are missing some facts about the hotels and the tourist board as well as the hotel and tourist folks on STINAPA's board that reduce its power and effectiveness. And, perhaps, because you are a businessman, you tend to be a bit biased about your fellow businesspeople in the hotel business, etc.?

"blaming unjustly"--I don't think so. by the way, what exactly have you been doing to stop the sewage instead of just critiquing those of us who are critiquing the whole debacle?

Ha, I see you have met on the barricades. Now, Pauline, please turn around and face the real enemy. Especially, as you state yourself, you know on what doors to knock. Just start knocking harder until, for all I care, the door comes down!!

The funny thing in all these discussions is that we do not need the permission of the government to treat our wastewater.
The simplicity in building a secondary wastewater system on your existing septic tank and including a filter before using the water in your gardens would have been an incredible effective solution, unless you where thinking of serving that water to your guests.
Why the resort haven’t yet done so , because they still put their money above nature.


An other fact: we all are dealing with overpopulation, we are dealing with commercialism where they tell us to eat, eat, eat.
Know that from all the food you are consuming on every meal you are overeating.
You only need 1/3rd of all that food that you throw on your plate to keep you healthy and going.
And don’t be surprised to see you’re poops only 1/3rd it size.

I believe that both Pauline and Bart are pointing their lances in proper directions.

Pauline is addressing the first level problem - untreated waste disposal by anyone.

Bart is correct that government should insure proper disposal by those who do not do it voluntarily.

So, both of you, please join forces and fight for proper action at all levels.

As an old Okie, I've been to many a "let's you and him fight". It's not productive to those doing the fighting. Identify a common enemy and go from there. If you need translation to/from Okie, PM me.

Could Bonaire be a bigger joke?

Sorry-

I am looking at the data. The place to START is the big resorts who don't truck or treat their pollution.

That's what the data says.

Regards,

Tom Reynolds
LMSP Program Manager (US)

And which resorts are those?

With me standing up against the fingers pointing mainly towards the shoreline hotels I was under the impression that ALL the shoreline accommodations (and, hopefully, ALL private shoreline homes as well!!) where trucking out as much sewage as they can. If they don't - indeed, shame on them!

Obviously, both Tom and Menno can't be right. Tom, you say you have data. If you won't/can't name the resorts, can you name the locations where the data is most suggestive?

Mel-

I need to write a scientific resort and present the data in a clear and unassiable presentation. I won't make specific accusations until that is done.

I do suggest that you check www.rainbowsensor.com occasionally for the latest LMSP data.

Menno is saying that shoreline resorts are trucking all posssible sewage. I can't dispute that but I do doubt that. Menno, himself, indicates that this was his "impression" and his basis for his contention. So neither of us have the "facts" about who is and who is not trucking.

So until someone can verify the facts of who is and who is not trucking Menno and I don't disacgree.

I noticed, the lmsp program only has sensors close to town, and not say at Slagbaai, or east coast. How does the program compare? The website is also very short in how the collected data is interpreted. Is there any preview at suggested interpretation available?

I agree with Tom that we need verified information about who is trucking and how often, etc.so those groups can be targeted to cooperate. Who can report this information is the question. STINAPA either doesn't know or is unwilling for political reasons.

And, as I have advocated before, tourists who stay at these resorts and hotels should know this information before they decide to spend their money there. After all, isn't it the ultimate in hypocrisy for resorts to be making money off divers and snorkelers to see the very reefs that they are simultaneously polluting with their sewage?

Perhaps it is time for an independent environmental "police" to be enforcing the laws and regulations on the books (independent meaning there are no hotel or tourist officials or owners exerting power behind the scenes)

But its not about who is and who is not trucking waste water to LVV,
All resorts are using waste water for their irrigation system and even this is not acceptable.

[All resorts are using waste water for their irrigation system and even this is not acceptable.]

Hendrix..Definitely NOT true. Bellevue only uses fresh water for the plants & all waste is trucked away. I know since I'm a board member. Additionally we have no pumps on the septic to pump out grey water.

Vince, I think you have just hit on a selling or marketing point for the Bellevue (if you need one): we are a "green" hotel and give the evidence how. This would not only assist your establishment in defining itself but put pressure on the other hotels, resorts, condos, etc. to do the same or risk losing business.

This might be a different strategy to reach the same end: environmental accountability and the end of nutrient pollution of the reef.

Thanks Pauline for the concept! I thought I had a knack for marketing but admittedly I have never thought of that! I will be giving it serious consideration. My focus was always on sun-sand & surf. Perhaps we should add a little "color" (as in green) to the equation.

Hendrix, I ask that you identify yourself in your profile if you are going to make blanket accusations about business practices on Bonaire. I know for a FACT that Sand Dollar does NOT use gray water on the resort grounds. We currently use water from a tap to water large plants in the dry season and do not water the lawn at all. Also we pump our waste water tanks before they are full to help with the seepage issue. This information comes directly from my questions to our on-site manager who is locally born and cares about the island his kids are growing up on.

Vince, with all due respect, and I mean that sincerely, I hardly believe your three story development with man made beach and with an elevator to take you up to your third-floor condo will win any environmental awards. You could easily have built a septic system that was environmentally sound that never needed pumping, solar hot water, cistern system for plants....? If I am wrong here correct me, but you built in an acceptable fashion for the lowest cost. I have met several people living out in the kunukus that are off grid, they should inspire us - they are green!

The fact is my wife and I chose to rehab an older condo in a complex with a small footprint in relation to the total grounds size built 20+ years ago that does not try to achieve 100% occupancy per room versus other newer options or a lot somewhere. I do not like the Bonaire sewage issue and will pay my share to change it.

Patrick

Patrick. seems you're being a wee bit defensive here. I don't believe anyone on this thread accused Sand Dollar of using gray water. If you're happy with the state of things where you are that's fine with me.

It appears to me that you do have some misconceptions about Bellevue. Bellevue's beach is natural and is not man made as you indicate. We have NEVER at any time had sand trucked in and deposited on our beach. The ocean current flows around the pier on the adjacent property & deposits sand in front of our property. That's what piers do (which is why you need STINAPA to authorize any new construction). That's just the way it is. Believe it or not. I do suspect I know a bit more about the property and Bellevue's construction than you do.

What does having an elevator have to do with not being green? The Otis elevator we have is brand new & uses electricity and is serviced monthly. Our guests love it since they never have to lug dive equipment upstairs. I hardly think walking 3 flights of stairs carrying luggage or dive equipment so as not to use 20 seconds of electricity would be acceptable. How far do we need to take this? If you have air conditioning does that also mean you are not green?

Personally I use electricity and know you do also. If in your view using electricity is tantamount to not being green, well I will not argue with you. You're certainly entitled to your point of view. However I disagree.

If someone's goal is to strive to be off the grid like some of the places in the kunuku, again that's fine. But it's not for me. They have to; in order to survive. We don't since fortunately we have the infrastructure in place.

We have a waste holding tanks (3 of them) which do not seep anything into the ground but is pumped out every 60 days. I know because I pay the bills. I have photos of it's construction and was there when it was being constructed. And as I indicated we do not use grey water for the plants.

So in essence, not using grey water to irrigate the surrounding plants, not seeping waste water into the ocean are all good first steps to being environmentally sound and I suspect that other resorts should follow. If the generation of electricity from wind (which is on track to becoming a reality) & bio fuels becomes available I think the island is making great strides towards becoming "green".

This discussion about the no fishing zones is getting better and better each and every posting.

Today I saw (and took a picture of) a local fisherman doing something with a very thin line in an area where fishing is not allowed. The coast gard was in the direct neighborhood and could not miss him. They also did not do anything.....

Vince, as you noted above Hendrix accused ALL of using gray water, not just Sand Dollar. YES I am defensive of BT posts from people without a profile, I think it should be changed that you need basic info behind your name. Agendas are many on this board and I state clearly who I am.

Vince I was told that your property put down crushed stone as part of the beach construction. I believe what you say and obviously stand corrected. No third floor, no elevator needed, simple to me and we will disagree on this.

I guess my point is IMHO few if any rental properties on Bonaire currently has a right to claim being green under even the most simple standards. I hope this changes soon and the islands generation of power is a huge start. Thanks for your thoughts, your views are always welcome to me regardless if I agree with you or not.

Patrick

Well Patrick from my own point of view it's a real shame that folks spread untruths. If someone told you that crushed stone was put down for our beach, basically they have NO CLUE as to what they're talking about or else they are just plain out right lying for whatever reason.

I was there in 2005 so I know what was there. I'm attaching photos taken Feb 2006 before the lot was even cleared. You be the judge if crushed stone was put down for our beach.

As far as the height of Bellevue, that was decided by the courts before the lot was cleared. The lower court & then the Bonaire equivalent of an appellate court. We won on all counts. Peace. We can agree to disagree.

Vince, I said I believe you earlier and meant it, and your pictures obviously do not lie. I just asked my wife if she remembered who told us about the beach at your place, it was during our first visit when we were looking at various properties to invest in and we are just not sure, but it was stated to us as fact. We were also made aware of the lawsuit and your neighbors position. The wife said I need to get away from BT for a while and I think I have to agree. Stay well.

Patrick

Well Patrick perhaps someday our paths will cross on Bonaire. If so you & your wife are welcome to come over for sunset drinks and we can make an evening of it. We both obviously love the island & I'm sure have much in common.

Well I would like to know who is doing what along the Bonaire coast because I want to specifically mention and exempt those who are disposing of all waste water properly by name.

I know that many of you are frustrated by the caution I show with LMSP data. There is, however, a standard of voracity that we follow.

Tom, I assume you meant veracity and not voracity!

Actually, you caused the discussion with your comment:
"I am looking at the data. The place to START is the big resorts who don't truck or treat their pollution.

That's what the data says."

So if you are not willing to share what the data says, then it is probably best not to mention it.

FYI There is NO SUCH THING as an environmentally sound septic system unless it is totally sealed (essentially a holding tank) And capt. Don is incorrect when he says irrigating your garden disposes pollution.

Absolutely correct! The very definition of a septic includes a leach field. A holding tank is as you have indicated completely sealed & MUST be pumped out. Sometimes the words septic & holding tanks are erroneously used interchangeably.

Mel-

A person can take my word for it or not as they choose. I have spent a lot of time, energy and money to evaluate the quality of Bonaire's water and many other volunteers have also. Nobody, no organization, no funding source has paid me a d@mn dime or anybody else either. As I have said before, anyone who wants the data faster--send money!

As I said, I am looking at the data. Human-based pollution is the conclusion.

Human-based pollution is the conclusion..... Wow!! Who would have thought that??
My glass bowl gave a completely different source. Just send money and I'll share ......

Menno-

Everybody thought that but thinking it and proving it is two different things.

What people want to do is yell, scream and jump up and down for somebody (not the jumpers and screamers) to do something.

Well before everybody does that based on LMSP data, I will make sure it is correct.

I can say "human pollution" but I can't say exactly from where at this point and I am unwilling to release the data and let the jumpers and screamers make their conclusions based on my data. True, they'll do that anyhow but I'll publish the data WITH correct conclusions. Maybe that'll slow them down.

So, if someone says all the human waste is being trucked away from the shore I'll dispute that. Can't be true.

FYI a fair amount of pollution may be coming from the harbor, a problem that trucking may not solve.