|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 6:36 am:|
I've put this thread under Local Items because after all, Queen Beatrix is the head of state of Bonaire (and also because it would drown in Community Chat). Jake, if you feel it should be moved, then go right ahead
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 7:05 am:|
I'll start off with an introduction of characters for those of you who don't know who is who.
|By Martin de Weger on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 7:15 am:|
Marc, this mornig I heared on the radio a not-confermed message that Juliana is in the hospital since last monday. I don't know if it's true, but if it is, it must be another slap in the face of the royal family.
|By Kay Powers on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 1:28 pm:|
|By Cynde Lee on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 1:34 pm:|
marc, i thought that Aruba was part of the Netherlands Antilles, but it isn't? Now this also has me thinking, is St. Marteen (the dutch side) part of the NA as well?
|By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 2:32 pm:|
|By seb schulherr on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 2:50 pm:|
Excellent and informative thread, bravo guys, and do go on.
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 7:35 am:|
Pfew, this is a nice exercise, I need to rethink and remember all I've learned in highschool
|By Kitty @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 8:34 am:|
The relationship between Holland and the Antilles and Aruba is indeed one of cooperation. The Kingdom has a 'Statuut', a document which came into effect in 1954. The Kingdom constituted of Holland, Surinam and the Antilles (six islands). Even Nieuw Guinea was still part of the Kingdom at that time. But that only lasted till a few years later. Surinam became independent in 1975. Now the Statuut is meant for Holland, the Antilles and Aruba (ever since Aruba got a status aparte in 1986). The Statuut is the Constitution of The Kingdom of The Netherlands. It states that all parties are equal and will cooperate with eachother.
|By Kitty @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 8:47 am:|
Oh, by the way. The governor has a representative on island level: the 'gezaghebber'.
|By Jake Richter - NetTech on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 9:08 am:|
I think "gezaghebber" translates to "he who has the say" (hebber = having, gezag = telling?).
|By Kitty @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 9:19 am:|
I think that if you'd translate 'Gezaghebber', it would mean 'he who has the authority' (gezag = the authority)
|By Kitty @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 9:20 am:|
But Jake, that's almost the same thing as you just said
|By seb schulherr on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 11:22 am:|
What an informative thread this has become. Thanks Marc, and Kitty, it is apparrent you stayed wide awake in government class!
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:06 pm:|
Seb, I don't know about "hundreds of millions"... Holland support the Antilles yes, but I believe in recent times this support has been slow to come. I know that the Antilles have complained about requests for subsidies being put on hold for no apparent reason. It looks like our government only wants to send money if they are sure it's being spend well. Either that, or they want to let the islands feel what it means to be independent.
|By Kitty @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:08 pm:|
As far as I know Aruba gets a certain amount of money from Holland and the Antilles get a certain amount. Herein lies the difference: Aruba gets her money and can spend it the way she wants it (of course, Holland will set some standards), the Antilles get money and will have to decide where the money goes to. Ergo: share the money between them. Due to political instability and bad financial management the Antilles have been (almost) bankrupt for a long time. Holland says that the Antilles will not receive a certain amount of money untill the finances are in a certain order. Even the IMF has said that the Antilles have to comply to certain rules in order to get money from the IMF. The Antilles are in great debt, it's horrendous. Aruba is in debt as well, but being alone it's easier to bring some structure in the financial situation...
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:17 pm:|
Maybe some of you have been wondering about the two names for our country, Holland and the Netherlands. It's an historic thing. At one time, our country was called Holland, much smaller than present. "Holland" is now actually 2 provinces (out of 12), Noord-Holland (where Amsterdam is in) and Zuid-Holland (which contains The Hague and Rotterdam). "The Netherlands", or Low Countries, was a name that was introduced when it consisted of the combined 12 Provinces plus (the Flemish part of) Belgium.
|By seb schulherr on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:23 pm:|
Marc, thanks, many people ask me that.
|By seb schulherr on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:25 pm:|
So, would a person be more inclined to say he was coming from or going to the Netherlands if her were from that part of the country, or Holland if he lived in or near North or South Holland? As in, I'm going home to Holland?
|By Kitty @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:38 pm:|
Hi Seb, a lot of Dutch people say 'Holland' because it is a Dutch word as well, and easy to remember when speaking English. We all should be saying The Netherlands, but that sounds a bit posh and it's quite long... :-)
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:48 pm:|
Well, actually, some people would not use the name Holland... Friesland for instance, one of our most northern provinces, considers itself a part of The Netherlands, but not of Holland; they are very proud of their own culture (and even language). Many Friesians would never say they're from Holland
|By seb schulherr on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 1:22 pm:|
No matter where you go, you are either from the north or the south.
|By Glen Reem on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 1:49 pm:|
A small but important correction to Marc's comments about selection of judges to the US Supreme Judicial Court: the President nominates people to be Supreme Court judges but the Senate approves or disapproves, so the selection is much more broadly based than he implies. Not knowing how judges are chosen in The Netherlands, I am not sure that 'system provides a much better protection to civilians from any errors made by political powers'.
|By Kitty @ CrystalVisions on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 2:02 pm:|
Glen, I think that the most important difference is that Supreme Court Judges in the US are (always?) linked to a certain political party. When the president is a Republican he will most likely want to nominate a Republican and when he's a Democrat he will most likely want to nominate a Democrat. So, the Supreme Court Judges are either Democrats or Republicans (up till now). Here in Holland that is not possible. Actually, as a judge you may not be visibly active in politics at all here in The Netherlands. So, here the division between the judicial and political system is much more apparent than in the US.
|By Jake Richter - NetTech on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 2:33 pm:|
Kitty - maybe we need to move this discussion over to the Sniper thread :-)
|By Ida Christie on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 2:44 pm:|
Well, I'm totally confused. LOL. ;-)
|By Glen Reem on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 5:16 pm:|
Jake has it right: conservative and liberal 'leaning' not party related. Certainly the Senate has a political party majority at any time (two parties only has an advantage in that no small, fractional party can control majority policy! Or bring down governments over narrow matters. :–)) and they naturally try to influence the flavor of the court; so far that has been mild since presidents and Senate majorities change and only one or two judgeships come up during any single presidential term. And many judges here have never been involved in politics-- depends on where they have served as a judge, if they have. Some cities, counties,, etc., elect judges, making a political stand inevitable. I believe Supreme Court judges, as others, must be lawyers. (That could start a whole new round but I expect we might be in general agreement about lawyers.)
|By seb schulherr on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 11:52 pm:|
Glen, I have to go on record here about the election, many americans feel it was blatantly stolen, and I think even a cursory investigation will show that. Many people were barred from voting in Florida on the flimsiest of excuses, such as they might be felons, because they had the same name as a felon who had left another state. And the list of those felons came from the state of Texas.
|By Faith M. Senie on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:02 am:|
Thanks, Marc & Kitty, for the explanation of Holland vs. The Netherlands. I see now that it's sort of like the difference between England and Great Britain -- someone in London might say he was from England or that he was from Great Britain, but someone in Cardiff or Edinborough is definitely only going to say he's from Great Britain (and my Welsh grandmother used to take great umbrage if you asked her if she was from England!)...
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:26 am:|
Glen, I had to look it up, but I've found how judges in our Hoge Raad (Supreme Court) are selected.
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:29 am:|
Faith, that is indeed a good comparison, although England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are more independent from eachother than our Provinces. There is no difference in legal or political position between any of the 12.
|By Jake Richter - NetTech on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:54 pm:|
|By Glen Reem on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 1:00 pm:|
TKS, Marc, for the explanation.
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 5:43 am:|
Okay, thanks guys. I understood that the SC can't do anything unless a law is brought before them. My reasoning was that if new laws get put before the SC, and they test it against old laws... doesn't that make it difficult to get anything to change? Doesn't it happen that a Democratic congress tries to pass a new law, only to see it blocked by a SC where there is a majority of judges put there by a Republican president (or the other way around)?
|By Jake Richter - NetTech on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 9:59 am:|
You've got it a little wrong. The USSC can judge on two actions:
|By Glen Reem on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:18 am:|
Read above again: the President only nominates candidates, the Senate confirms (says 'yes') or not. So a President cannot just pick judges he wants. Thus, a law cannot be 'blocked' for his political reasons. And the measure used for judging a law is not 'old law' but the Constitution, which can only be changed by the people of something like two-thirds of the states voting for a change proposed by both houses of Congress-- it is not an easy process. Thus stability and continuity over time.
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 4:22 pm:|
I'm not saying it's bad . And our monarch doesn't have law-making capabilities either.
|By Faith M. Senie on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 5:54 pm:|
Actually, you're right -- if a president of a certain party picks a candidate, he's probably going to pick someone whose idealogy seems to be similar. And if the Senate is majority that same party, they're likely to pass the candidate pretty quickly.
|By Meryl Virga on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 11:30 pm:|
Great and informative thread as I am clueless to your politics and govenment....type slower ...I'm writing this all down.....quiz in a few weeks..!!! (mine of course!)
|By Marc @ CrystalVisions on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 1:52 am:|
Well here's an update for you then Meryl . Queen Beatrix has accepted the resignation of the cabinet and new elections will be held on the 22th of January. According to the polls, and to the parties, the most likely outcome will be a coalition government with 2 parties, the VVD (liberals) and CDA (christian-democrats). The party of late Pim Fortuyn (LPF) will in all likelihood be deminished to a couple of seats due to all their internal struggling and amateurism.
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