By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3266) on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 7:01 pm: |
This is for the expert tax pros on Bonaire. I've just spent the last hour going over a google translation from Dutch to English of the just released B/CN tax proposal. I realize this will be voted & finalized to accept or reject in it's entirety scheduled for 10/12/10 by the Senate.
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #152) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 9:22 am: |
Still working on the translation, I want to be sure I have it all correct before posting anything, but as soon as I have it I'll post something.
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By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4156) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 10:46 am: |
and when you are done Bruce, they will still make changes or have a different interpretation!!!
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #153) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 12:02 pm: |
OK, translation courtesy of PWC, here is what we know and my thoughts. First, this has passed the Dutch Second Chamber and needs to pass the First Chamber as well. Vote is Tuesday, and apparently it's an up or down vote, no amendments (but don't ask me about Dutch Parliamentary procedures, please!)
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3267) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 12:13 pm: |
Thanks Bruce..Your expertise on this is much appreciated.
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By YucatanPat (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #490) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 12:35 pm: |
Thanks for posting Bruce, great information.
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By Trevor Naylor (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #233) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 3:58 pm: |
Useful information. I am not sure that the 1% tax on the value of a property can be regarded as 'not a huge cost', as mentioned by Bruce. On a property value, say 250000 then 1% p.a. is a lot. (2500)
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By Bob - RE/MAX Bonaire - bonairehomes.com (BonaireTalker - Post #45) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 4:22 pm: |
Trevor -
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By Bob - RE/MAX Bonaire - bonairehomes.com (BonaireTalker - Post #46) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 5:00 pm: |
RE: Tourist Tax
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3268) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 5:35 pm: |
Bob..Thanks for the clarification on the hotel occupancy tax.
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By Everett Preece (BonaireTalker - Post #19) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 9:18 pm: |
So if I understand what has been said so far. If my 100,000 apartment which is not a rental and only I stay there......and at this point in time, nowhere near 3 months a year, taxed a $1000 annually in addition to the grondbelasting.Long term (over 5 years)it might be in my best interest to apply for residency and pay the bond.
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By Mike Truesdell(Bellafonte condos) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 9:53 pm: |
Hey Trevor I too pay about 3% on property here in the Lone Star state.Having to pay 1% on accessed value is an increase from last couple years rental income tax.If I am understanding this right I(non resident) would pay 1.3% tax for property and so called income tax on rental. This would not vary no matter how much or little rental income may be. Correct?
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By Barton B (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 7:45 am: |
Still confused about real estate taxes - sorry.
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #154) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 7:49 am: |
Everett: You read it correctly. The decision to become a resident is a different decision, and tax is just a small part of it. You would pay BES income tax on all your worldwide income and still be subject to US tax as a citizen. Possibly now a foreign tax credit, also still need to check. Obviously the details of how that works out vs. the $1,000/year would be something to review with an international tax specialist. The bond is just a NAf1,000 deposit and you get it back after 5 years or when you leave if earlier.
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #155) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 7:59 am: |
Barton: According to the PWC translation regarding the real estate tax:
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By Susan Davis, InfoBonaire, Bon. Insider (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #457) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 8:05 am: |
Hi Bruce, Please understand that I am not debating what you just said about deposit bonds for residents being paid back after five years--I'm just giving "my side" of the story based on what I've experienced.
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By Barton B (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #110) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 8:21 am: |
Bruce - Thank you for the quick response. I'm in full support of your interpretation .
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #156) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 8:54 am: |
Susan:
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By Bob - RE/MAX Bonaire - bonairehomes.com (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 9:14 am: |
Here is what I have been able to confirm, in conjunction with my local accountant:
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #157) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 11:51 am: |
I confirmed that there is still no BES capital gains tax on the sale. There would still be a capital gain taxed in the US (unless it is a principal residence and meets the Section 121 exclusion (2 of 5 years and under $500,000 gain for a married couple.))
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By Barton B (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #111) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:05 pm: |
Next question: Regarding the personal income tax of - First $9,750 tax free, then 30.4% flat rate. On Bonaire do they have things like "filing status" of single, married, filing jointly, etc as in the USA? More specifically, does the $9,750 tax free get modified if the filing status is married, or "filing jointly", or is it basically $9,750 per household?
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #158) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:25 pm: |
Barton:
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By Barton B (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #112) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 2:57 pm: |
Thanks again Bruce. You are a wonderful knowledge resource!!
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By Mike Truesdell(Bellafonte condos) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 4:34 pm: |
Thanks to Bruce and Bob. This was a great help.
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3270) on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 6:26 pm: |
Excellent thread & thanks to all for their respective contributions on these important issues. I believe by tomorrow we should have verification as to how the senate voted today.
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #159) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 9:33 am: |
Regarding the property taxes. I did confirm that if you pay the 1% vastgoedbelasting you don't pay the 0.3% grondbelasting and vice versa. So the total tax for non-resident or non-owner occupied property is 1% per year and for residents on their principal residence (or farm or kunuku house) is 0.3%.
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #160) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 12:04 pm: |
I also got clarification (again thanks to Peter Muller) that to qualify as a "principal residence" and get the 0.3% rate on your own non-rental house, you must be a resident of Bonaire. Low rate does not apply to vacation homes. Similar to the US definition of "principal residence."
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By Nathalie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #334) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 1:24 pm: |
Very informative thread. Thank you.
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #161) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 1:28 pm: |
I don't know exactly or even approximately, but if I were to guess I'd say about 200-300.
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By Nathalie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #335) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 1:59 pm: |
Thanks. I had no idea it was that high (understanding that is a guess). With that many, it seems reasonable to expect the island government would make the information available in English.
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #162) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:26 pm: |
They may eventually but there's 15,000 local Dutch and Antillean just on Bonaire, plus a few thousand more on Saba and Statia. It makes sense they get the info first.
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By John Smith (BonaireTalker - Post #27) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 5:49 pm: |
If the non resident property tax jumps to 1% of real value. There is going to be a massive amount of property dumped on the market very quickly and property values are going to seriously tank!!
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3271) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 6:34 pm: |
Ummm John...Now really, why don't you take about 10 DEEP breaths and eschew the histrionics. Do you really know anything about market forces and economics? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however it's quite wrong.
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By John Smith (BonaireTalker - Post #28) on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 10:15 pm: |
Vince
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3272) on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 6:30 am: |
Well John I think we'll just agree to disagree on this. If you think the R.E. market on Bonaire is going to come crashing down because of the new B/CN tax structure being implemented I don't see that at all. So if you think that's truly the case, keep your gunpowder dry! I wish you a lot of luck.
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By Antoine Dodson (BonaireTalker - Post #16) on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 8:08 am: |
To Vince's point - myself as an owner of a rental property, the new tax structure as it reads should be beneficial. 1% property tax rather than the grondbelasting plus rental income tax is a break even for me or slightly better.
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By Bob - RE/MAX Bonaire - bonairehomes.com (BonaireTalker - Post #48) on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 10:01 am: |
Speaking as someone in the business, the 1% property tax on your second home is about the same, or even lower than you would pay for property taxes on a similar property in most states in the US. Holland also charges a similar tax on rental/vacation property there, although I am not sure what the actual tax rate is.
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By Bob - RE/MAX Bonaire - bonairehomes.com (BonaireTalker - Post #49) on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 10:16 am: |
John -
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By Bob - RE/MAX Bonaire - bonairehomes.com (BonaireTalker - Post #50) on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 10:40 am: |
The real estate market on Bonaire is not like the market in the U.S.. There are virtually no bank repos, so we don't have that factor driving down sales prices.
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By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3273) on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 11:44 am: |
Bob..thanks for shedding some additional light together with your professional expertise on the subject. I am absolutely in agreement with what you have posted. Personally I've been carefully monitoring the Bonaire real estate scene now for at least the last 8 years. ALL tax policy has winners & losers, that's the nature of the beast. Overall, I think what they've done is fair and equitable.
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By Vincent Vethaak (BonaireTalker - Post #56) on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 2:48 pm: |
Just adding the finalization of the subject.
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By Everett Preece (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 6:04 pm: |
Vince, That sounds like great news for home owners. Just to be clear it's Property Value X .00345%. A 100,000 property would have an annual tax of $345. Do I have that right? Also, who does the property assessment?How is a baseline value determined?
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #164) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 11:19 am: |
The property value is based on a determination by the assessor, similar to the US model but based on 100% of FMV. Last round they sent a letter and said tell us what you think it's worth and show us how, and if you didn't respond they threw a number out there to see if it would stick. They were pretty reasonable to deal with in my experience. It is my understanding the values won't reset every year, maybe every 4-5 years?
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By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #165) on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 11:41 am: |
Other tidbits (cleaning up what is above):
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