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Local Items: US/Dutch Friendship Treaty Upheld!!
Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives 2010: Archives 01-01-10 to 06-30-10: US/Dutch Friendship Treaty Upheld!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3059) on Friday, June 4, 2010 - 5:57 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I see that a final ruling was received confirming that US citizens in the Antilles have the same status as Dutch citizens. This should be excellent news for US property owners on Bonaire who in the past were treated as any other foreigner to the island. All US citizens should now be afforded the same treatment as Dutch citizens who were not born in the Antilles.
I think that's going to be a real good thing for US owners! :)

Anyone else have other interpretations of this new ruling?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathalie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #312) on Friday, June 4, 2010 - 9:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I interpreted it as applying only to those U.S. citizens with official legal residency on Bonaire, not all U.S. property owners. But what I read did not explicitly say that is the case.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arnita (BonaireTalker - Post #78) on Saturday, June 5, 2010 - 8:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I may have to investigate this for the future. Hopefully it will also be good news for a US citizen who wants to relocate to Bonaire, find a job, and own a home. Maybe our dream could be more of a goal. Grown kids would have to start collecting frequent flyer miles. :)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mary barnett (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Sunday, June 6, 2010 - 9:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

What about the Canadians?? I am sure that when I win the lottery next Friday, Bonaire would be the first place i would look at for purchasing property for my parents to have a place to retire! Makes for an easy excuse to come share the beauty of the island both topside and underwater, and get the odd home cooked meal from Mom!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Zavon (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #142) on Sunday, June 6, 2010 - 1:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wow, fun stuff! This 1956 Friendship Commerce and Navigation (FCN) Treaty replaced the Commerce and Navigation Treaty of 1852. Obviously these types of agreements have been around a long time. The text is here for those with lots of free time. :-) US-Dutch Friendship Treaty

The basic idea of FCN treaties is that businesses will be treated fairly in the courts of the other in commercial disputes, like a US company doing business in Holland can't be required to post a different bond than a Dutch company would have to if they file a lawsuit in a Dutch court to enforce a contract. It also says non-nationals can own controlling interests in a business in the other country. Seems pretty reasonable for countries that do a lot of trading with each other, that's why there are so many of these treaties.

This one has the unusual section about territories outside the home countries of each and how to treat people and businesses from each in those other territories. It says that US nationals shall be treated the same in the Antilles as Dutch nationals not borne in the Antilles are treated. So the case was about getting a business license and the US business owner was apparently treated differently from a Dutch business owner on St. Maarten. I don't know if you can read it much broader than that.

In the text of the Protocol there are a lot of "howevers" to say it doesn't mean what it says. Paragraph 13 in particular says the treaty does not "preclude ...the application of residence requirements."

So it will be very interesting to see how this aspect plays out when the Antilles is gone. I would think then that US immigration limits into Bonaire will be the same as they are into Holland within Europe. But it also could be that the BES is a "different place" from Holland in Europe; if Dutch immigration to Bonaire is limited then US immigration would likely be treated the same, whatever the limit is.

This is a hot topic in Holland now, as some political parties don't think it's "fair" for Antilleans to be able to come to Holland without restrictions but Dutch non-Antilleans can't come to the BES on the same terms. I'm not an immigration lawyer so don't ask me what the Dutch immigration rules are. Have we got an immigration attorney on BT?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3064) on Sunday, June 6, 2010 - 3:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Bruce for your input.. As I suspected; no one currently really knows as to how this is going to "shake out". They certainly keep you guessing. :)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Walker (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 11:05 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

In case anybody else is wondering, this treaty does not extend to employment.

"Article XXII
[...]
5. Nationals of either Party admitted into the territories of the other Party for limited purposes shall not enjoy rights to engage in gainful occupations in contravention of limitations expressly imposed, according to law, as a condition of their admittance."

and

"Protocol
[...]
11. The provisions of the first sentence of Article VIII, paragraph 1, shall not be construed to affect the right of the Netherlands to require that aliens may not be employed in the Netherlands unless the appropriate permits have been granted. However, in keeping with the terms of that paragraph, the regulations governing employment shall be applied in a liberal fashion."

Bruce, thanks for the link to the treaty text. Not an entertaining read, but at least it's an easy one.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #891) on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 2:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I find that an interesting subject ... but I really dont understand it as that any US citizen can just come and live / work here without permits.

We own a condo in Florida ... 3 months stay and no way to extend it under the Visa Waver Treaty ... and no right to work included ....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Gassert (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #639) on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 4:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Is what you stated about the Visa Waiver Treaty based on all aliens or by nationality based on reciprocal national agreements? I can understand a no work permit if one can only stay three months.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #892) on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 4:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

As far as I know it a Treaty between the US and the countries of the EU ...
You have it about reciprocal , that is what I tried to say ... if there are rules for me as a Dutch citizen for the US , why would it be different for a US citizen on Dutch terrotory ?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Walker (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 4:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brigitte,

It's not different. Residency and Work permits are still required.

The treaty appears to be about business travel, and owning and operating businesses and property.

 


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