Last Saturday two female friends went to walk up the “mountain” Seru Largo at 7:15 am. They parked their car at the bottom, and got out of the car. Immediately there came three black small dogs around them, which actually didn’t do anything wrong. Suddenly one of the two ladies, who was behind the car was knocked to the ground by a big yellowish dog (breed unknown to us), that came from nowhere. This dog immediately bit the lady in her groin. The second lady went to rescue the lady on the ground, and then the very aggressive dog attacked the second lady, also biting her in the groin, and she also fell onto the ground. I make the emphatic remark that the ladies were on public road, and the dogs were walking around “free”, without leash. The bites went completely through the clothing, were deep and heavy. Fortunately the owner of the dogs arrived, and managed to get the dogs behind his fence with great difficulty. The ladies stayed behind, heavily bleeding and in distress. Happily the owner tried to get the dog under control; this dog didn’t intend to stop after the first bites, and would for sure have been biting over and over, and would probably have bitten the first victim in her throat, where he was actually going for when the second lady pulled the dog away from the other lady. It appeared that this dog was trained to attack, (he went directly to the groin, where the arteries are easy to bite), and is dangerous to human life.

At that very moment, a police-jeep passed by, with two persons in it. At least one of them being a police-officer. They didn’t make any effort to take a look, even didn’t get out of the police-car. They told the ladies that they “had to go to the hospital", and drove away…… We think a police-officer could / should have reacted differently. He could have made sure of the condition of the victims, and could have offered (perhaps in their own car) to bring the victims to the hospital. Finally the ladies went into their car, bleeding and in disordered condition, and drove to the hospital. In fact this was very dangerous, the driver could have fainted……..
Around 7:45 am they were at the hospital, and got helped quick and friendly by the EHBO (First-Aid)-department. The hospital attendant did what he could, but found out soon that skilled help was needed. One lady had four deep pits (from the four canine-teeth), which at first sight didn’t look too bad, although heavily bleeding; the second lady had a wound of about 3” (8cm), that was open for about 1” (3cm), with some smaller wounds around it, also badly bleeding. To our luck there was no artery damaged, because then this incident would have had a totally different ending.

In the attached pictures (taken with consent of the victims) you can get an idea of the injury such a dog can inflict.



Wounds Carmelita Stitches Carmelita

The hospital attendant called at 8:00 am the doctor on duty, and told us he would be at 9:00 am in the hospital. He covered the wounds provisionally. The doctor on call arrived at 9:45 am (!!) and treated the ladies professionally and kindly. The second victim got 16 stitches.
The doctor apologised for his late arrival, and explained that there should have been four doctors on call, but he was the only one at this moment. He had been working the last four weekends, and had been working yesterday (Friday) from 7 am till Saturday 3 am. He showed clearly symptoms of overtiredness. We couldn’t be mad at him anymore, but we think that such limited coverage on such an island is unacceptable, especially when you have to provide emergency care to visiting tourists from abroad, fast and reliable. When we left the hospital at 11:45 am, there was a line of 21 people waiting for a treatment at the EHBO (First Aid). That doesn’t mean First Aid, but Twenty-first Aid......


Wounds Meta

Meanwhile the owners of the dog were notified, and appeared in the hospital. They apologised comprehensively, they promised to pay the large medical bill. It was clear that they also felt in big trouble, because of what had happened. They knew that some of these dogs (they have at least 5 of them) are aggressive. They have the dogs to protect their property, because they claimed to have had several burglaries. They told us that the dogs NEVER EVER walked free on the road (that morning there were 4 of them), and that they have muzzles for their dogs (not in use that morning). We want to say explicitly that we don’t have problems with these people, and that we only criticize the behaviour of their dog(s).

Unhappy with the reaction of the police (driving away from the site, and also the reaction about the report), we went to the police-station in the afternoon, to try to make a report once more. Again we were put off with words but no results. Same police-officer, same arguments, so no report. He went to the back to deliberate with the commander-in-charge, but came back without success. Also his chief had confirmed that a report was not possible. When we asked to speak to the commander-in-charge, this person was not in the office, and also the chief-commander was not in. We were sent to the Officer of Justice or the commander of the island (mr. Domacasse). (Both not available on Saturday). We asked for a copy of the notice the police-officer had made, but could not get this due to totally unclear reasons. (We think there has never been such notice made.....). The police-officer concerned, told us also that there has never been any problem with that dog, well I imagine not, if there cannot be a report made, or no notices are written down…… On Monday we will go on with this “Mission Impossible".

Currently we are in the house with two women, laid up. The Doctor was somewhat unsure about the deep holes in the leg of the first victim, he is afraid it could start to become infected; meanwhile there is a huge subcutaneous contusion of blood. He was satisfied with the stitches of the second victim. We will have the opportunity to review the results in a few weeks. They had their Tetanus-injections, are heavily on antibiotics; but we can laugh again, and be happy they survived. Mind you: this is not an exaggeration; it could have been so much worse.

.......To be continued.......

Aad Domisse
Harrie Cox
2008-03-16

Continuation from our first post:

We want to inform the public with this story of the following three issues.

1. Unattached dogs must be rounded up. If they are two times taken, the owner must get a substantial penalty. The third time, the dog must be confiscated and killed. When an unattached dog on public road attacks, he must be killed immediately. We have a dog ourselves, this one is behind a fence, and can walk/run freely on our whole property. She NEVER comes on public road unleashed. In the neighbourhood we live in it is almost impossible to walk on the streets in the evenings, because of all the troops of more-or-less aggressive dogs, following you. Strange things happen here on Bonaire, those “cute” donkeys are caught and put into a park, mostly because they cause so much damage to cars, and those uncontrollable, unpredictable and aggressive dogs are not taken care of? Please understand it correctly, we love dogs, and we think it is terrible when a dog has to be killed. But these animals are very dangerous, and the dog-problem on Bonaire has become uncontrollable. And please, let’s think of the risk and danger for the people on Bonaire, (both locals and Makamba’s), and absolutely for our reputation as tourist-destination…. Once again, we are not only talking about this specific dog. This is a serious problem on Bonaire, and it concerns a lot more dogs......
2. The understaffed hospital is a serious problem. Also when the staff on duty did what they could to give good care. But injured patients sitting with wounds for near to four hours is absolutely not positive for the recovery process. Something has to be done here!
3. The fact that it is not possible to make a report when dogs cause damages or injuries is absolutely unacceptable. The owner of the animal is according to our opinion always responsible for the damage his animal(s) brings about. The basis to hold the owner responsible for the behaviour of the animal must be a report. The fact that it is not possible to get a copy of the notice, is also unacceptable. The community has the right to know what has been done with the information they have given.

We know and hope to get a lot of reactions on this piece, but we are not seeking REactions, things have to change, and ACTIONS are necessary!




Aad Domisse
Harrie Cox
2008-03-16

Harrie,

I'm so sorry to hear about Carmelita getting attacked by the dog, but glad that the injury was not as bad as it easily could have been - as you said, the dog could have severed a key artery (femoral artery, I believe) and killed her.

I know that I always have serious concerns about my kids (and myself for that matter) riding their bikes on in neighborhoods around Bonaire because of the threat of uncontrolled, lose dogs on the street. And a fair number of them exhibit aggressive behavior.

Can I suggest you send a copy of your posts to Boi and Papi at Extra? info@extrabon.com - I suspect they would want to cover this in their newspaper.

Good luck in getting the police matter resolved. Your description of their (in)action is scary too. You should definitely talk to the Island Prosecutor about that, as well as the Lt. Governor.

Let us know how things develop!

Take care and hugs to Carmelita,

Jake
(For those reading this, Harrie & Carmelita were my neighbors when I lived up in Hato)

I am a 100% with you at all 3 points ... dont see it helps the ladies or you, but thought I tell you ! I love dogs and cats and have 2 of each. My dogs are never on the street !!!
I have given up to walk a long time ago, too many uncontrolled dogs everwhere.
Have you been to see Mr.Domacassee ???? As head of police and security he should take action !

Thanks, Jake & Brigitte for your support, so fast!

We really want to go on with this.
Thanks for the link to Extra, we had Boi already here, it will be in the Extra tomorrow, or Wednesday. Also trying to make contact with TV11/BoTV.
We visited the police-station this morning again, tried to make an appointment with the police-chief. It wasn't even possible to get his secretary on the phone, so we had to leave a paper-notice. We will be called back. (When??)
After the police-chief, we want to go to the officer of justice, and after that we will contact mr. Domacasse. I think it is better to go through the regular structure here.....

Harrie

Good luck Harrie and Carmelita! Once it hits Extra you should get more response from the police.
What a shame that it takes them this long!

Harrie and Carmelita and Meta, I am so sorry to hear about what happened. It also scares me that the police did nothing to assist when they drove right by and then not to be able to make an official report? Truly scary, I wish you the best in getting justice done and also as you said something to be done about the "loose" dogs. I have a place on island and noticed quite a bit more free roaming dogs this past February, I am also a little leery of trying to walk by myself to get exercise due to that. Shame, as walking and bicycling is no longer safe with all the dogs running free anymore.

Wishing a speedy recovery without complications for the ladies.

Thats a sad story all round. Your injurys look very painfull , ive had much smaller bites and they sting! No excuses for those dogs being lose , its all human error . I hope the dogs can be spared and placed where they will be protected , as they too are victims .

Hi
While there is no way to condone the behavior of the police officers, without the proper equipment they are not immune to being just as badly bitten. It seems though, that nothing whatsoever was done, no call for help and no move to confine the dogs. Not good to say the least. In an area where dogs are routinely kept as guards this could be a very serious problem.
Hopefully it will be addressed.
Mick

Sometimes tourists are surprised why we don't take nice walks at sunset. That's why, it is too dangerous.
We have to tell our tourists who want to go for their morning or evening run here in Belnem, that they only can run in a certain direction. Otherwise they are running the risk of being chased and maybe bitten.

The behaviour of the police is scandalous.

Good luck, Harry and a speedy recovery for your friends.

Harrie,

I am sorry to hear that your friends got bitten; as you say, it could have been worse.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery for them, and I hope you can finally get to see Mr. Domacasse.
Please keep us posted on your efforts.

Mare

Ouch! My condolences to your friends, Harrie, I hope you can rattle some cages on this one and wake up the police. We're all behind you.

Harrie..Absolutely horrible. It's not the dog's fault but it's certainly the negligence of the owners. At a minimum they should pay all medical costs incurred. If that took place in the U.S., the pain, suffering & mental anguish would be an element of damages against the owners.

Harrie, something has to be done, and it looks like you might be on the right track. Good luck to your friends.

Oh my gosh, that is a scary story. I am really glad it didn't turn out any worse for your friends. Best wishes for a speedy recovery to your friends

As for running/walking on Bonaire, are certain areas safer than others for such purposes? How do you find out? Ask at your hotel or ???

Harrie, first of all I want to say I am so sorry to hear of your two friends being injuried in this manner. It scares me, as I will be coming to Bonaire for the first time in May.

Regarding solutions to the free roaming animals ... this is not the animals fault, but rather the people. Everyone (not just pet owners) need educated on the importance of spay/neuter (which drastically reduces aggression and the urge to run free). I was surprised when I read about all the free roaming (and friendly) cats and dogs. Spay/neuter programs can be implemented at low cost with great success.

Spay/neuter also works on cats. You don't have to exterminate, just prevent.

I'm passionate about spay/neuter, as a volunteer for a cat rescue group. I too often see the results of irresponsible owners who let their animals breed freely. You are either part of the solution ... or part of the problem.

Best wishes to your friends for a speedy and complete recovery. And my prayers that the island can implement some reasonable programs to get things under control.

Harrie,

I wish your friends a speedy recovery and hopefully without traumatic after effects (including you).

I wish you strength in your quest. Sounds like you have started on the right track and it sounds as though everyone is behind you.

Hi all!

Thanks for the support!

An update first.

More-or-less the receptionist of the police-station had said that we would be called back today for the appointment with the police-chief. So, no call. My compagnon/partner (Aad) will go back to the police-station again tomorrow morning. (4th time). I am afraid we still will have a long way to go.

Last night both ladies had quite some nightmares, and at least a very troubled sleep (as we had too). Walking is still very difficult. I drive my wife through the house (from bed to bathroom) in a bureau-chair with wheels. That works. Makes us laugh sometimes. She also appeared to have some heavy back-pain, due to her falling on the ground. We hope this will pass by. The anti-biotics is really heavy stuff, (it looks like being developed for horses, or so?) they both get sick from it. But try to follow the cure to the end.

This evening we had a meeting with the doctor on duty (same one as the one that did the weekend (5th in a row), he had worked the whole day, and did an evening-attendance this evening. We had to be there at 8:00 pm.
He was happy with his work on the stitches, looked good, he said, (actually compared with the pics I made Saturday not much changed). The other lady's wounds looked also good, no infections this far, just one still open, and liquids leaking out of it. The doctor was happy too, put new bandages on it and we left. Wednesday we will be back again.
I took the advantage to make a pic of the enormous subcutaneous contusion of blood:



WOW! said the hospital attendant and the doctor together. This wás a killer-dog!

So far the update.

Then to clear an omission and a mistake.
You might think my English in the first post had become marvellous. Yes, thanks to Nathalie, for helping me. And Aad's name is Aad Dommisse.
Sorry for that.

Liz: I really don't know of any safe areas. I thought Belnem was relatively safe, but the post of Marion mentioned Belnem as a problem too. I think free-walking dogs are always potentially dangerous.

April: There have been several programs for sterilisation of female dogs. Not as an obligation, but on voluntary basis. As far as I know male dogs are not "helped". As long as it is on voluntary basis, the people that have their dogs for protection, or for dog-fights will not take part in it. Dog-fights? Yes, dog-fights, on Bonaire. When you obtain a dog from the animal-shelter, it is sterilised, and you pay for the sterilisation when you get the dog.
Perhaps other people can tell more about these plans. But I think waiting for such plans to come to practice takes to long time. There is a problem, here and now, and a solution is needed, NOW.

Harrie

Harrie, I have spent time in the barrios meeting with locals talking to them about walking their chained dogs and sterilizing. So far out of about 40 dogs and cats I have gotten sterlized or organized the sterlization, all are females. No locals would allow their males to be sterilized. Dog fights in Bonaire? I am not aware of this..in Antigua for sure I know of this going on. Each day you can drive to any local 'hood seeing young men walking their prized fight dogs. Sad but a part of that culture. I pray never hear.


The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Harrie, a bit late, but I'm sorry to hear about this. Keep at it and get them to take action. I hope the victims recover soon. A real pity to hear there are dog fights on Bonaire...

Harrie, thank you for your posts. I hope your friends heal soon, both physically and mentally.

Harrie, what is the name of the antibiotics that was prescribed? If you don't mind...
Good luck today...hope they take the right steps in making sure this never happens again.

Harrie, I'm so sorry about Carmelita and her friend. How horribly horribly scary. The wounds look very bad. I hope for a speedy recovery for both women. I also hope the police do something, this is just so sad and horrible.

Harrie - I can't imagine the trauma sustained by all. In that last picture you can certainly see the size of the dogs mouth and the canines (teeth) that imparted the bite on her leg.

I am slightly troubled as I am supposed to be walking at least 3 times while we are on island next week. We are staying north of "resort row" up north and now wonder if there is a better time to walk or if it is safer to walk in town.

Please continue to keep us updated on the progress you are making with the police.

Publicity machine is running...

Local newspaper "Extra" posted an article including the "bloody" pictures on page 32 and and editorial about the dogs-problem on page 33.
Carmelita is in an interview on Voz di Bonaire (FM 94.7 MHz) (12:10 pm or a bit later) and in an television-interview tonight on TV11 (Channel 24) 7:30 pm or later.

Aad was again at the police-station, the chief-commander was not available, and he spoke to the commander-in charge. He got a copy of the notice, and the commander-in charge promised to check what had happened on Saturday, and to take actions..... (They must have read the article in Extra?)
He also met Jopie Abraham (leader of the opposition-party) accidentally. He also promised to take action.

See and wait what is going to happen.

Harrie

Ann, I admire your determination in educating people about spay/neuter. You may not be able to help them all, but it matters to the ones you do help. And I love the Ghandi quote, how true.

I was reading today about the "California Healthy Pets Act" (Assembly Bill 1634). Perhaps the entire world could learn from the reasonable laws that California is implementing for pets. It is to protect everyone (pets, owners, and the general public). Both physical safety and saves a ton of money in the long run.

The vicious dogs running loose on Bonaire is certainly troubling. Especially since there is little legal recourse should one be unfortunate enough to be attacked. I have to admit, I am scared.

I truely hope all are on the mend from this horrendous ordeal. Shame on the owners - animals do sometimes get away - but to ignore the fact they have dangerous pets - Let us hope the pets have had all shots. Stateside the animals would have been taken for quarantine for at least 10 days. Shame on the authorities for letting this be taken to the press and airwaves before acting. Could it be this "owner" has special dealings with the authorities, as to turn the other way. I walk around alot during my time in Bonaire - this is quite disturbing. Next time down I will bring my pepper spray for cases such as this. May the persons that were injured have a quick recovery. We are are behind you.

Update: (This is not a real update).

We had a busy day with going to television-station (was a nice program), and radio-station, was good too, but only papiamentu. Went to the police-station two times. Had contact with the Officer of Justice. (This person helped us quite a lot, not the Police-people btw.) I will not tell about the results now, positive and negative, wait till tomorrow to cool the ideas down a bit before writing it down.
We will have to make contact with the police-chief too (wasn't successful up to now, ever since Saturday) and with mr.Domacasse too.
Then we will sit aside, lick our wounds, and start to do the bigger thing, try to get rules and actions to prevent this in the future, as far as I can see now, this will be a hell of a job. But it has to be done....
It is so easy to sit behind the computer, read everything and know the solutions, but to do this in practice with all the bureaucrats on the island, and the people that have fun if a Makamba is in trouble, that is the main problem.

have a nice evening.,


Harrie

Oh Angie,
BTW.

Pepperspray is not allowed on the island, and will bring you in big trouble.

Harrie

Harrie, You're right, but a spray bottle of Windex or something like that filled with ammonia cleaner will do just as well and is not illegal since you can buy both in the grocery store.

That would be my recommendation to anyone who wants to walk around.

An air horn works just as well and does not harm the animal.

I'm ignorant when it comes to trained attack dogs. Are they affected by air horns or trained to ignore the noise?

I would prefer to not harm any animal and the air horn does protect the "barking", not attacking, dog who might inadvertently get sprayed.

After viewing those photos I'm not sure if people are thinking about not harming a dog. Fear overcomes compassion.

I guess there's two questions here:

1. Will a trained attack dog respond to the air horn?
2. What amount of harm would a spray of any sort do to a dog?

There are times when the possibility of a civil suit for much money against a government, or individual, can be a wonderful prod to action. Not always but useful in this sort of situation. Too bad Dutch law doesn't allow it.

Any comment on why the police won't address the situation, Harrie? Or did you answer that above.

Harry, if I am not horribly mistaken, there was some law about dogs introduced / started last year on Curacao. Perhaps you could get in contact with the animal shelter over there, they would know.

Harrie and friends. I'm so sorry this happened, and this the lack of official action is appaulling.

We stay at a small Inn in Hato. I stopped taking walks by myself, while my husband napped, about 5 years ago. The dogs in the neighborhood really scared me every time I attempted to get out and walk. I've always thought the dogs running wild were far more scary than strangers.

1. A "trained" attack dog will not attack unprovoked. I do not believe we are dealing with "trained" animals. In any case, most are not conditioned to deal with loud sharp noises, like air horns.
2. Any chemical can cause harm. Put a drop of ammonia in your eye and see what happens. The pepper spray is the safest, but is illegal in commercial form. It will cause temporary eye irritation, enough to get away. You can make your own spray - a combination of water and cayenne pepper in a mister bottle that has stream capabilities, but be cautious of clogging if you use powdered pepper. A friend of mine makes her own concoction by squeezing a hot pepper into a mister bottle and adding water. She also puts the whole pepper in to help "ferment" the water. Another thing you may wish to add is a food coloring - to easily identify the animal afterwards for authorities. A note of caution...some peppers can cause blistering. If you cannot touch the pepper with your bare hand, choose another type.

I love the pepper idea. So, take out the ammonia and use pepper. And I have had pepper in the eye - ouch, it hurts real bad.

I wasn't really thinking to spray the eyes. I was mostly thinking of the nose - misting the air - the smell would chase them away. Of course there is the high likelihood of it getting in their eyes, too.

BTW Tribs...My wife once used Sting-ease, mostly ammonia, instead of her contact saline solution. In her defense, it was dark and the bottles are the same size. Stung like hell. Flushed it. Sight was normal - well, she was half blind to begin with, so normal for her - after about 6 hours (if I remember correctly).

There is one disadvantage to spray also...the wind. You know the old adage - pi**ing in the wind. One might get the spray right back at them.

I'd vote for air horn for sure.

Hi all!
Thanks for all the tips!

No value.
Do you want to walk with a bag of pepper spray, a baseball bat, a box of stones, and a bag of sand, on this near-to-heaven-island. That is no fun!
And, remember, the woman attacked, hadn't seen the dog coming at all. So you will most time be too late, when it happens. Only solution is to get all those loose dogs away from the public roads. And that is what we really want to address to with this action. After the first fights we want to go higher in the structure of Bonaire's political organisation, to get such thing done. And that is where we need all your support for.

Gail: Hato, is where we live. Is terrible. When we want to visit our friends (Aad & Meta) in the evening, we take the car (2 blocks) That is a shame! Sometimes we don't have the guts to leave the car, and go home again. We have an electric fence. Dogs normally don't go with the car into the fenced area.

There should not be unleashed dogs on the roads. Dogs that jump over fences: build a higher fence, or put the dog on a rope, or put electric wire on top of the fence, works perfectly!. Our dog stays away from any red wire in a distance of three feet, although the last time she touched the (powered) wire is more the one year ago. Also keeps unwanted dogs out of your garden.

Brigitte: Curacao has a law on dangerous dogs. Bonaire hasn't. Sometimes it is good that everything on Bonaire happens years later, sometimes it isn't.

Glen: Police doesn't address this, because they don't have the rules to do so. Their are holes in the rules. Using your intelligence, that is a bit too much asked. And this is good like this, No rules, no address, no action, sleep on, quietly. Makes life easier.

Ann/April: Read the part about sterilisation. Only female dogs were sterilised, not the males. That is not possible in local culture. What do you think are the most dangerous dogs? Right!
A male human being is also not sterilised. Not done. That is why so many men have so many children with so many different women......

Change the world, start with yourself (NOT from Ghandi).

Harrie

Harrie,

Fight your fight but please don't go there (quote: " A male human being is also not sterilised. Not done. That is why so many men have so many children with so many different women......" end quote) has nothing to do with this issue (and by the way it takes two to tango Harrie, sorry could not resist to react).

All the best for the attacked woman, very very scary to be attacked by a dog

Iris

Education is education! Thanks for the information Harry! As far as I'm concerned, go anyplace you want. To be informed about another culture is priceless!!! Ron

Hi Iris!

That was indeed a bit out of topic, but just meant as an explanation on how things work on Bonaire. Sorry to have you upset.

All the others, don't read that part in my post too literally.

And, Iris, about the two to tango, I could tell you quite a bit more, that remark is far away from reality, at least here.

But enough about the remark on sterilisation for humans, and the children problem on Bonaire. I will not respond anymore.

I was so angry/upset about all the impossible things that happened yesterday, sorry.

Harrie

Harrie,

I can understand that you are upset! Luckely you know the way to the media to get the attention to this problem of 'free-walking-around-agressive-dogs'.

Very often I have parked my car also at the bottom and 'climbed' the Seru Largu with child in a buggy...I cannot imagine what would have happend if we ran into that agressive dog your two friends ran into...

How are they doing, your friends?

Iris

The sadness of this is two-fold. 1. The enjoyment of walking has been taken away from these women. 2. Fear of walking around will remain with them for along time. It is sad that the owner hasn't taken steps to prevent this, and they authorities have little interest for a potentially life threating and possible deadly situation - say should this have happened to a child instead of an adult. The courage these women have endured and will continue to face in the future to put this situation front and center in the eye of the public, locals and authorities takes guts and determination. We should all applaude their efforts for this, hope and prayers for a speedy recovery. I myself have a questionable breed of dog - I being a responsible dog owner have taken the steps to properly train her to avoid bad behavior. Sterilization is not a fix for aggressive dogs - they are trained or mis-treated for them to become this way. It is the Owners responsibility to keep track of his animals to ensure public safety, just not his properties safety. Fence is o.k. but mine also jumps the fence or should I say climbs the fence. If I could have a fence such as the cactus fences in Bonaire I would be more than happy. The responsibility still remains with the owners and the authorities to protect the public from dangerous animals - regardless of how many times this happens - once is more than enough. My deepest sympathy for your pain - and best thoughts for your recovery.

Iris,

Harrie, in his own way, was trying to explain the reason why male dogs are rarely fixed/sterilized on Bonaire. It's very much a cultural issue, as Antillean male dog owners seem to believe that male dogs should have all their parts in working order and not be emasculated, and that if people have problems with puppies, it should be dealt with via the female of the species. This attitude, sadly, is reflected at times in the behavior of the humans owning such dogs too in Antillean culture, which is what Harrie was stating rather bluntly. From speaking with Antillean friends about this, the feeling seems to be that if you allow your male dog to be neutered, it reflects on the virility of the owner.

The fact that one male dog can impregnate many female dogs makes no difference because the reasoning for not fixing male dogs is emotional/cultural and not rational (at least from my perspective). In fact, this characteristic of male dogs can at times be a source of pride.

As the human friend of a number of animals (at last count three dogs, one cat, two prikichi parakeets, and two hermit crabs) I fully agree that we are responsible for our animals'. Domesticated animals in human populated areas that have any chance of aggressive activity should not be allowed to roam free. However, if an animal exhibits aggressive behavior against a human in a situation such as the one that Carmelita and her friend encountered (e.g. walking in a public place and being attacked), I think the human is fully entitled to take whatever action is necessary for preservation of self, even if that involves harming or killing the animal in the process.

I also agree that dogs in general should not be allowed to roam freely on Bonaire. We used to (well, one year, at least) have required dog tags and registration on Bonaire, and untagged dogs were to be caught and taken off the streets, and tagged dogs caught and the owners notified. Nothing ever really happened with that though.

Jake

(Message edited by jake on March 19, 2008)

That's too bad Jake... the solution isn't really not brain surgery, just takes follow-through.

Harrie, I really hope that your friends are doing better. So frightening.

I am afraid that there is dog fighting in Bonaire, it is quite a common occurrence in the middle of the Kanuku, I was invited to attend but obviously declined.

I was also unlucky enough to find a pit bull type of dog that had obviously been dumped close to landfill. My own dog discovered it under some bushes. The dog was very healthy looking with good muscle definition but the the bites on its face and body were symptomatic of controlled dog fighting.

Antony (Without the "H")

Antony, I hope you reported your find to the police.
If you were invited you must know the people who stage such "events". Can you report that as well?

Unfortunately I was not privy to locations, dates & times. It is pretty unlikely that the Police would be in the least bit interested.

I did report the dog but they said that it was not their concern and to inform Selibon to have it removed which I did.

It was there for months!

Well, due to the above story making the paper. This may be a good time to bring that news out. Have you spoke to the police about the dog fights or you are assuming they would not be interested?
Before more people and animals are injured it may be time to step up to the plate and at least take a swing at it.
The first few pictures on this thread are reason enough.

Unfortunately Meryl, I do not live on Bonaire any longer.

I did not report activity of dog fighting to the Police as I had absolutely no information to give them. Just saying "Some local guy in a bar asked me to go to a dog fight" would not be enough to stir them into action, particularly when you read above their lack of interest in the attack on a person.

One piece of obvious advice that I would give to people is; if you are the owner of a dog that could be suitable for fighting, don't breed it. If you do, be very careful who you sell the pups to.

Am I to infer that like the defenseless populace, the Bonaire Police Officers are also unarmed and therefore afraid to confront a stray dog?

IF however they are allowed some sort of firearms, perhaps a collection could be taken up from folks who would like to be able to walk the streets unattacked to purchase the Department a few 12ga shotguns and a couple boxes of shells? Total cost? Less than the medical fees from one attack. Ability for all to walk free.....priceless.

Let me know the Paypal account BT wants to set up and I'll gladly contribute.

It is always difficult for us "outsiders" to view things from a 'local' perspective. Many times doing things the "island way" is nearly impossible to comprehend. It is important that we NOT try to tell others how to run their lives or their country.

That said, leaving dangerous predator animals to run loose doesn't sound like a very sound choice to me. But what do I know? I am fortunate to live in an area that has systems in place to properly deal with attacking animals.

I believe the point with the local police department is that they did not offer assistance after the fact just to say they should seek medical treatment - with no assistance in getting the victims there. Local police cant control animal fighting in the USA, fully armed - to expect a local unarmed department to handle such situations is suicide for the officers. Their indifference to this situation at the time is what the problem is. Fighting of this type is a cultural practice in most of the Caribbean area this includes cock fighting of which is again illegal in the U.S. For those of us that travel to other countries - we must accept their culture and traditions or stay closer to home.

Well said Angie.

For as abhorrent as these practices are, they are indeed common place in many parts of the world and for an outsider to try to tell them the error of their ways is futile. Bear baiting, fox hunting, general hunting and bull fighting are all archaic practices and I believe that eventually will be part of history just as slavery is.

Educating the next generations is the way forward.

I hope so, Brian, I sure do hope so. And can we add archaic practices like war and torture to your list as well, please?

Apologies to all, for I have yet again been unclear in one of my poorly worded postings.

I am NOT concerned about about the "sport" of dog fighting, cock fighting, bull fighting or even penguin wrestling. I don't practice or enjoy watching ANY blood sports (professional boxing included BTW)...but whatever floats yer multi-cultural boat is fine by me.

I AM stating that a stray dog that attacks a PERSON should simply be put down swiftly and efficiently BY the armed law enforcement officer on the scene. I was not sure of the firearm status of Bonaire LEOs and was offering to assist in funding an appropriate anti-beast firearm, namely a good pump 12 ga, were they armed with only batons and flashlights or the like.

Alex, I believe you are asking way too much. All of the practices have been going on since Medieval times - current civilization is at best what one makes of it and his or her own life. Each country has its own customs, practices, and religions. We as visitors need to respect that. I hope the victims of this horrendous ordeal are on the mend, and dont have any repercussions from authorities and or owners for bringing this up to the press. If something can be done from off-island I would be more than happy to assist in any way I can.

Angie, I know I'm asking to much, my words were just a big sigh. Of course people will never change and there will always be violence and unhappiness, but I can at least dream, can I? And, like you, most of us try to do our little bit for a better world. May we succeed.

All points well taken,
Antony, sorry I didn't know you were no longer living on Bonaire..
But just because something is going on since "medieval times" doesn't make it legal.
Not knowing Bonaire's laws I would still guess it is illegal.

OK People,

We are getting a big bit out of topic.

At least I will try to get it back on track again.

1. There are dangerous dogs loose on the streets.
2. Police does not act active and good in these cases.
3. Hospital is understaffed.

I think most of these topics are relatively easy to solve if there is a will to solve them.

With this thread I wanted to make aware of the problem, and to point the not-willingness to get it solved.

I want to start a discussion to get the local politicians and government and police to change that attitude. It is a small island, if we organise it the proper way the problem can be solved. Therefore we will need the support of many, many people. Perhaps some hands-on help too. We don't talk about money, and specially money for guns. Please, those should not be on this island. This is Netherlands Antilles, not USA! Only the police, and they have guns, I've seen a lot of them, last days.

There are quite a lot of positive (and negative) things to tell you about the past 2/3 days. I am preparing a new post. But that will take some more time. We are getting forward, slowly, but we will go for results!

Harrie

Harrie.

The points that you make are valid but I would like to take up a few points.

Firstly, the chance of a massive purge by Police to rid the island of vicious dogs is not likely. For many years on this forum and on Bonaire, people have been campaigning for more officers to deal with crime and still there are very few advances in that area. What might be an alternative is the re-introduction of the dog warden who, to my recollection, did a pretty good job a few years ago.

On the point of the hospital, where is the money going to come from? SVB falls well short of supporting the medical system because of the relatively small amount of residents on the island. Only from an increase of cash given by the Netherlands will there be improvements. However, this then leads to the age old problem on the island of who controls those funds and who will be accountable when the money does not go where it is supposed to.

There are failings in some areas but if people move to Bonaire expecting it to be little Holland then maybe they have chosen the wrong place to live.

Different problems are prevalent in different parts of the world. In another town in another country, your friends could have been shot, mugged, raped or "happy slapped". There have been several cases in the UK for instance where children have been maimed and killed in the street by pit bull type dogs despite it being illegal to own such a breed.

When Bonaire has increased Police presence, gated communities, fast food outlets on every corner, all inclusive hotels and a population of 40,000, then maybe there will be adequate hospital facilities and an absence of dogs on the streets. On the other hand, most of us will not want to live on nor visit Bonaire.

Bonaire is a tiny Caribbean island with third world status, we have to be realistic.

Antony (Without the "H")

Harrie,

If there is anything we can do for those of us that visit and are off-island I would be more than happy to assist. Situations such as this can not change if people don't know about them. I am hoping your friends are doing well and recover fully from their injuries. Things happen slowly everywhere, keep the faith.