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Local Items: Mangrove Village definitely off
Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives 2007: Archives - 2007-01-01 to 2007-06-30: Mangrove Village definitely off
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan - "Bonaire Shore Diving Made Easy" (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #371) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 6:07 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

from www.amigoe.com


Governor nullifies decision BC Bonaire
Mangrove Village definitely off

WILLEMSTAD/KRALENDIJK – Mangrove Village in Bonaire is definitely off. In order to prevent that the nature reserve Lac gets irrecoverably damaged, Governor Frits Goedgedrag annulled two decisions of the UPB-Governing Body today.

According to unconfirmed reports, project developer Angelo Clarinda (Bonerian Building consortium) left the island and nobody knows where he went. Real estate office Remax of Bob Bartikoski is involved with the tourist project as sales organization. Bonaire Partners was supposed to be in charge of the rental units. In the beginning of October last year, the governor suspended the building permit for a period of three months. Also the granting of long-lease land for the build of an eco-resort near the unique nature reserve Lac in the vicinity of Sorobon is reversed, now that the decision is nullified.

The governor says that these decisions do not concur with the ‘international agreement regarding watery areas of international importance’, which is the Ramsar Treaty (Iran, 1971).

Based on the Island-regulation (ERNA), as official body of the Kingdom, the governor can suspend and nullify decisions made by island territories, when they are in breach of international treaties and such. Where they want to build is in the immediate vicinity of the Lac lagoon, a watery area that falls under the protection of the Ramsar-treaty. The management of that area must focus on preserving its ecological character and its natural profusion.

There is no environmental impact assessment for the Mangrove Village. According to the Ramsar-treaty, before considering developing such area, an environmental impact assessment has to be done that complies with high quality standards, followed by a public consultation. A decision can only be made based on the comments on that assessment and the public has to be informed of the decision. In the case of Mangrove Village, no environmental impact assessment is done in conformity with the requirements of the Ramsar-treaty. The island government indicated that it is willing to do this, but the BC cannot have this done before the suspension period lapses, which is tomorrow. The BC also didn’t see the possibility to withdraw the suspended decisions or nullify them. If the governor didn’t nullify them, they would have become valid again this January 4th, with the consequence that the building activities would have resumed.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom C. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3878) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 7:02 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Fantastic news!! Thanks for sharing Susan!

Now for ALL of those responsible, every person/business that had started developing or selling lots there to pay for the removal everything they had built and return the area to it's original state.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2690) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 8:29 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Great News, common sense at last.

Tom, that would be great, the odds of it happening??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #783) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 8:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Fine with me. Good Job Gov!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom C. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3880) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 10:15 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brian, the odds of the parties which caused the damage repairing the damage could increase if responsible officials such as Governor Goedgedrag required it.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan - "Bonaire Shore Diving Made Easy" (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #372) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 10:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think Brigitte can explain this better than I. The gentleman who annulled the ruling of the Island Council is not from Bonaire but is the Governor of the Netherlands Antilles appointed by the Queen.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anonymous (BonaireTalker - Post #78) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 10:47 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wonderful news, Susan.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3321) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 10:53 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Happy days on Bonaire. It seems the Governor is not on the payroll. Good job Governor!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #570) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 12:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The island governors as well as the governor of the Netherlands Antilles are all appointed by the queen and are her representatives - if I am not mistaken always for 5 years with the possibility of one extra term. The governors a proposed by the islands and by the central government to the Queen , all parties have their say but theoretically these governors are neutral to all the governments in power - works quite well , in the 20 years I am here I have never heard about any real problems.
The Governor of the Netherlands Antilles (at the moment Mr. Goedgedrag, who was in the past the governor of Bonaire) has a lot of Dutch advisers also... and as the foreign politics of the Antilles are determined and represented by the Foreign Ministery in The Hague, I would think that Mr. Goedgedrag had somebody to have a close look at the Ramsar Treaty and got the advise to forbid the construction as it was not in accordance with that treaty.
The construction was allowed by the local government after advise of the DROP (the Bonairean version of a department for all construction permits, ownership of land, lease land etc) - and DROP is the last years even worse than it was in the past - and they really have never been good. If any money changed hand, it was certainly at DROP.... nothing than problems in the last 2 years with them, so much that the local governor (Mr. Domacassee) called about 2 months ago for an investigation. No results heard yet.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom C. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3881) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 1:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brigitte, thank you so much for the information. I can not express how grateful I am when concerned citizens/residents of Bonaire share on these threads.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barbara "CB" Gibson (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #553) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 1:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Yep, me too. Love a different perspective.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #587) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 3:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan, thanks for posting this. Brigitte, thanks for your feedback as well. Always appreciated:-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anonymous (BonaireTalker - Post #79) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 5:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It's no wonder Mr. Goedgedrag (don't even bother trying to pronounce it) did the right thing: the English translation of his name is Goodconduct!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt III - www.RecTekScuba.com (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #322) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 5:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

From todays Amigoe

Amigoe today

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By blue mcright (BonaireTalker - Post #56) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 7:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan and Walt, thanks for the postings. Hurray!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #597) on Friday, January 5, 2007 - 9:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What Walt is referring to is the story down on the page "Booi furious at the governor"...me thinks this is going to get "ugly."

I would like to also know what's up with the white bread....is Bonaire at risk of not getting white bread?

Someone also needs to tell them they need to change the copyrite at the bottom of their page...it says 2001!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian mccarley (BonaireTalker - Post #45) on Sunday, January 7, 2007 - 7:22 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

It's actually DROB not "DROP" although there are probably a few other names in circulation for that Department.
These are the same folks that "removed" beach sand for road work until apprehended. DROB was later pressed to replace the sand.
DROB is also the group responsible foe approving the new four and five storey structures you see gracing the sky line of Bonaire.
Now the Government is going to be in litigation with the developers of the mangrove project (and will most likely loose the case and end up paying about $1 mil US)
Sad situation, there doesn't appear to be any fore thought process going on here.
The fragile resources on Bonaire are for sale at the expense of the next generations
Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #657) on Sunday, January 7, 2007 - 7:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brian..it's been almost a year since I've been on island but wasn't aware of any 5 story structures being built. What are you referring to?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim McPeak (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #528) on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 3:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Yes Vince. It is true. There are a number of 4 and 5 story buildings going up. The newest is right where Blue Moon used to be. I had a long talk with a Bonairean friend of mine, Roffino, of Divi Dive. We were both disgusted with this "progress." They are all new condos going in. There are quite a few going in north of town as well. No building was supposed to be taller than the government building. That has all changed. It shocked the **** out of me too.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #668) on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 5:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Jim for your response. I guess I'll see first hand when I get down there in Feb. I can tell you that I've become aware of some big money coming onto the island and am really amazed at the amounts of money being spent on some dwellings! Definitely a new class of people are arriving (Europeans and Americans)on Bonaire with the bucks or euros to back up the lifestyle and luxury accommodations they want.

Is this bad? Well I'm not unequivocally saying that. In fact it COULD be a good thing.
IF the dollars are used to put in a real sanitation system on the island (which in my opinion it needs desperately); If it aids the construction of alternate green forms of energy generation (wind farms and bringing some competition to WEB) & IF the construction isn't overdone & controlled it could well be a beneficial economic development for the island. We are all cognizant of the implications however if it's not done properly.

Yup it'd be nice & comfortable if things stayed the same, but my personal experiences in life indicate changes always come with time.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim McPeak (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #532) on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:09 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I know what you are saying Vince, and it is so true. I look at my lifetime and see many parallels with the Jersey shore. You can probably relate to this as well, being a Jersey guy. I remember when Long Beach Island and many other places were oceanic outposts in the 50's and early 60's. Developers came in and took it away to be almost urban in scope. I saw the same thing happen to the Outer Banks in NC. When I was stationed at Camp LeJeunne in 1968, we used to go out there for a weekend and camp. Now it resembles Malibu, CA. Bonaire afforded me that old time Caribbean feeling. Coming back from Karpata on a dive boat is where you can really see the changing skyline.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #669) on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:33 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim...Dem changes for sure... I spent my childhood & teenage summer years (50's & 60's)along the Jersey shore, specifically the Point Pleasant area.. The changes have been absolutely unbelievable.

I learned how to scuba dive as a 13 year old "child" by myself in the Manasquan Inlet with a good day's visibility of 10 feet, bad day it was measured in inches & I'd come out covered in seaweed..Back then spearfishing was the thing to do. I graduated college at the tender age of 21; made my first trip down to the Caribbean & have never ever made another dive in Jersey!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Antony Bond (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #169) on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 12:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am interested to find out what will be the final cost of this charade.

As it can be assumed that the developers were given legitimate rights to develop the area, there is bound to be some financial recourse.

Taking into account the forward planning, permits, architect and surveyors, initial development, legal costs etc. etc. it is likely that a bill running into $$$$$$$$ is going to fall into the lap of the Bonarian Government.

If that is the case, it will not be all good news for the people of Bonaire. Chances are we will be picking up the tab.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marilyn M. (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #105) on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 8:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

When I grew up on Aruba, my mother and I used to beachcomb as our special time together. The first hotel on Palm Beach was being built at the time. The island was a little poorer, and most of my friends had very little, but it was a lot gentler time. Now, their are very few places where any "local" can access to go swimming or camping. The beach where they do the Kitesurfing and windsurfing is constantly in the news as one hotel or another wants the property. There is not a shell to be found on the beaches anymore for stepping over tourists, and the crime rate has risen dramatically. In the meanwhile, the side of the island where San Nicolas is, the roads are terrible, and the school facilities are a disgrace. The money is poured into the areas where the big hotels are. My point is, all of this "progress" has not necessarily benefited the local population. If not for my loved ones in Aruba, I would avoid going there. Bonaire is like my memories of Aruba as a child - which I treasure. My wish would be that any extra funds brought in by tourism would be poured into the infrastructure - which in my mind - should also be focused on better schools, child care, job training and facilities for the aging. A happier local population would also make for a safer, gentler Bonaire. With that, I will get off my soap box!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Becky Hauser (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1022) on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 8:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Antony, my question is were the development rights really "legitimate"? I mean, there are international treaties protecting mangroves, so can anyone actually have legitimate rights to build in an area like that? This is an honest question, not sarcasm.

Marilyn, thank you for your insights on what happened over the years in Aruba, and may Bonaire not follow that track! Very well put.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anonymous (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #115) on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 2:01 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Marilyn, I can understand how you feel about the changes that have taken place on Aruba. I have seen the same things happening in my native Zeeland, where I used to go camping in the sand dunes near the beach as a child, go for long walks on the beach (and on the seabed; when the tide was out, you could walk for miles and find all kinds of stuff little kids find interesting). Nowadays it row after row of campsites, holiday villages and fast foods restaurants. I do think however, that in this case, the local population has benefitted, albeit only in the material sense. It has certainly not become a better place to live.
I also remember the deserted Greek and Italian islands where you were the only foreigner 30 - 20 years ago, and the Spanish coasts with its beautiful nature when I visited there with my parents. We all know there's hardly anything left of that, unfortunately. Let's hope Bonaire doesn't go the same way, and that at least the local population gets its fair share of the new material wealth.
And please climb back on your soap box as often as you please - I value your insights.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim McPeak (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #541) on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 12:26 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Marilyn, a most excellent commentary on Aruba. I went to Aruba about 15 years ago, and then went back for a day two years ago in transit from Bonaire. My in-laws were staying at the Marriot there, and we spent the day with them. I could not believe the changes, congestion, traffic lights, etc. on what used to be a pretty idealistic place. Aruba was used by Mobil Oil or was it ESSO (Exxon) right from the beginning. When that dried up, Aruba was left with a plethora of problems and nobody saw it coming. I can see what you mean about the problems on the interior, while the hotel areas shine. Seems to be a common Caribbean problem though. Hell, it's a problem here in the states as well. Everything looks great in South Beach and the Art Deco area of Miami, but go 15 blocks in and welcome to the war zone. The same can be said for any major city here.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marilyn M. (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 4:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It was ESSO. The refinery area used to be called Lago. True, some changes are good, and others are really disturbing. I think Bonaire has done a really good job avoiding a lot of the mistakes made in Curacao and Aruba, just hope they don't loose site of the most important asset of the island - the people. My hope is that with the change over to Dutch rule, more resources will be directed to the safety and well being of those who live there. What a beautiful, special island, below and above water!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Bellevue Condos # 9) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #671) on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 7:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Becky..I'm going to "jump in" on your question to Antony. The property developer (the way I understand it) received the "go ahead & approval" from the Bonairean government. The decision was subsequently overruled by a higher judge on the grounds of the Ramsar treaty.. The issue was then raised can the developer have legal recourse against the Bonairean gov. who gave the approval in the first place?

I suspect he can to the extent of damages he incurred. However whether or not he would be successful in the litigation (after all a Bonairean judge would probably hear the case) or whether he would even bother to file suit against the local government is a whole different matter. I suspect he would just "lick his wounds" & not bother instead of escalating with further litigation which may not be cost effective.

After all, the developer is a builder first & foremost & I'm sure might not want to be further bothered with additional costs of litigation. Just a guess on my part!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Becky Hauser (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1026) on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 11:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for the clarification, Vince. I wasn't sure how it all got started (that's what I get for coming in half way through :-))

 


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