During a visit to the supermarket today to buy some steaks, it came to my notice that all of the beef products were marked as Halal.

After a conversation with the Butcher, it was confirmed that all fresh beef was subject to the ritual slaughter method favoured by the Muslim religion known as Halal.

A visit to another supermarket was made and, although this time the beef products were not labeled as such, they too were Halal prepared.

As I neither agree with the Halal method of slaughter and am not Muslim, I chose not to make the purchase.

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, the practise of being force fed meat that complies with religious minorities seems at best a little unsavoury, what happened to choice?

If anyone knows of a Butcher that is selling traditionally slaughtered meat on Bonaire, please let me know.

Maybe I will have to follow my Wifes example and become a vegetarian!

Antony, Hat's off to you on the research. I am a vegetarian so I say follow your wife's example.
But any "slaughter" (wow what a word) is horrific. If I did wish to purchase any "meat" product I would not purchase any meat (or anything else) labeled as such.
But you still have a choice...buy it or don't.

What I do find interesting is that I thought most of the beef came from South America/Venezuela?

I wonder if the beef is from Bonaire? I always thought it looked like they got it in frozen and cut it up while still frozen. Anthony, which stores were you shopping at? I remember watching an old fisherman in North Dakota start to filet a nice Walleye while it still moved. I was appalled. I always chose to "club" my fish to knock them out before cleaning them.. Sorry Meryl!

Diane, no problem, I still prepare meat dishes for Steve (although I give him guilt, horrible wife I am!) But I have never seen any Beef/cows on Bonaire....goats....

Anthony, what do you mean by traditional slaughter? Halal is certainly a very traditional method. Though it may be horrid to see. Check out what the British Library says about it and Kosher slaughter here. It sounds like it might be more humane.

(Message edited by seb on December 13, 2006)

Appearances can deceive.
Seb this article was in the British Library, but who is the author?
I live in a pretty large city, I have never seen this label on any meat product. Why Bonaire? That is my interest.

Sorry but I too would not buy the meat. Can I just bring my beef from Texas?

Any visitor to Bonaire who is attempting to be conscious of the environmental footprint left behind can discover it’s no easy task when you consider the amount of energy consumed to import items, especially food. And red meat production carries a significant carbon price tag.

In speaking to butchers at stores in Kralendijk, I was told that the pork comes from Venezuela and most of the beef comes from Brazil. When you consider that the cattle ranching is a major cause of tropical forest destruction and factor in the energy cost of refrigeration and shipping to a Caribbean Island, eating red meat on Bonaire carries a significant environmental impact.

But in regard to comparing the Halal method of slaughter with Kosher, I’m neither muslim nor Jewish so I don’t know, but don’t both methods involve throat slitting while the animal is fully conscious? Is there really any difference, other than the presence of a rabbi?

If any consumer/visitor to Bonaire is concerned about eating cows dispatched by throat-slitting, there’s a link below. Warning, it’s graphic.

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=agri_short&Player=rp&speed=_med

You are an interesting bunch I must say.

Living amongst a zillion muslims, I eat Halal meat, noodles, food, etc everyday. Everything has to be Halal. There is no change in taste nor anything about it. In fact if it weren't labelled, one couldn't tell the difference.

Halal is to Muslims as Kosher is to Jewish as the rest of the "food that once had eyes" is to the rest of you, no matter what religion or how it is killed and butchered.

Who cares how it was slaughtered or killed....the darn animal is dead and you - and I - eat the meat!

Meryl, the answer to your question, which is valid, is that most likely there is a contingent of Muslims on island that need to eat Halal...just as a Kosher Jew would need Kosher food.

In 2000 they were building a mosque...did it ever get finished? The people who wanted to pray 5 times a day there are the ones who eat Halal.

Thank you for listening to me.

Barry

My understanding is that most Jews feel that eating Halal meat is acceptable when Kosher food cannot be found. There is a reasonably large Jewish population on Curacao, so this is probably driving the market.

Kevin,

Conversely, a friend of mine who is Muslim says that anything marked as Kosher (this applies to foods other than meats too) may be considered Halal. Too bad religions can't cooperate as well on everything else...

Factory slaughter in the US isn't exactly humane either.

The other difference between Kosher meat and non is that it is soaked to remove the blood and salted. Same for poultry.

Is this BT? A few unusual threads today!

Barry

just because an animal is being killed for meat does not mean that it should die in agony. The meat is supposed to be better when the animal was not stressed.

Wow we do get around on BT. A few thoughts on this, the only difference between Halal slaughter and standard slaughter in the states is the animal is stunned before it's throat is slit. There is some controversy about the stunning process and does it really work. On the other hand I have always heard that slitting a throat is not that painful and not a bad way to be killed eg Masada suicides.

On the environmental impact side, OK they are cutting down the rain forests to graze cattle in South America. Well we already did the same in North America years ago, remember we used to have continuous forests right to the Mississippi. Not now. One thing I have seen in my little state (that used to be farmed), the forests do come back (we now have more forest that when the Pilgrims landed). What is the alternative, eat fish, we know how that works out, don't we.

I don't have a good solution other than there needs to be fewer of us and the damage will be less.

All this is IMHO.

To answer a few questions, remarks etc.......

It appears that a lot of meat on the island is imported from Paraguay. The whole Halal thing was brought to my attention as I bought two pre-packed joints of Beef from Warehouse. In very small writing on the packaging it had some Arabic script and the word Halal. I was surprised because of its origin.

The method of Halal is very similar to Kosher. In areas such as America, Western Europe etc, there are strict codes of practice which forbids the traditional cutting of the throat to bleed the animal to death. Legislation has forced the industry to stun the beast before the throat is cut. Unfortunately, this is not the case in African, Arabic and most South American countries. Many orthodox Muslims do not except that stunning the animal before the ritual slaughter is acceptable.

Most of us eat meat. We all know from where the meat comes and we are happy to have Government agencies and pressure groups to ensure that the animals are treated well and slaughtered as quickly and painlessly as possible. Just because I eat meat, it doesn't follow that I find unnecessary suffering acceptable.

Warehouse now labels all beef clearly with the word Halal in red. I was told that it only applies to fresh meat and not to frozen. At More For Less, I asked Mike the butcher as to whether his beef was Halal. He confirmed that all of the beef that he imported was.

The Halal issue has become a bone of contention in the UK. While every effort was made to give the Muslim population the choice of Halal products in schools, hospitals, prisons and the armed forces, it was seen to be too expensive to offer both traditionally slaughtered and Halal products. As a solution, the Government decided to only supply these institutions with Halal meat on the assumption that non Muslims would not complain. The fact that it was done without consulting parents, patients and consumers made it even less acceptable.

While I am happy for everyone to have the choice that they require, it appears that the choice is being taken from the majority to satisfy the minority. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs but I feel that their chosen lifestyle shouldn't encroach on others. I am sure that if the food industry was covertly sneaking Pork by products into Halal meals, they too would be less than pleased.

Meryl, there are cattle on Bonaire, albeit a small amount. They can be seen wandering around at the top of Kaminda Lagoen. They can usually be heard before they are seen due to having bells around their necks.

There is a local butcher in Nikiboko South, that may be the solution. As there appears to be no legislation pertaining to labeling here on Bonaire, I would suggest that any people who do not want to eat Halal meat may want to ask before they purchase.

Antony, thanks for all the info. I find it very interesting.
Barry, Happy Holidays! Nice to see ya popping in from time to time!

Antony - excellent post. Thank you.

You stated your position in your initial post and I respect your decision.

I'm interested in your comment (last post) about the UK contention about Halal. I'm not accusing anyone of anything here...so, please don't blast me on it. Just provoking some thought.

I wonder if the contention comes from the opposition of method of slaughter or that it is a 'Muslim' food product.

I wonder if Kosher is opposed the same way?

Could it be 9-11 vs Holocaust? Consciously or sub-consciously!

Just some pondering that comes to mind...

IMHO I believe the majority of people in our meat eating society don't give a hoot, nor even know, how we slaughter the steers. They just eat it. If they did care, they would most likely be vegetarians if opposed or selective, such as Antony.

Once last thing...what about the agony of chickens, fish (left on board to suffocate, flopping around), pigs, lambs, baby lambs (veal) - oh and don't forget that stoba, the goat meals that many of you so enjoy on Bonaire....do we think about how they are slaughtered?

Of course all that's not labeled, so we don't know, we just eat and enjoy.

Again, just thinking out loud, no accusations in the least....

What an interesting topic and I must say, many well thought out responses. I am not a big meat eater but have eaten all forms (kosher,non-kosher,halal) meat. Honestly I don't think about it. Many restaurants here specifically advertise halal meat as an enticement (I live in a largely Persian and Indian populated area). My first trip to Bonaire in 1986 I was horrified when I saw dead goats hanging upside down from trees. I asked why and was told to drain the blood. It grossed me out to see but did not effect what I chose to eat. Because something is done differently than we expect does it make sense to boycott it or reject it when the outcome will be the same either way? Just my 2 cents.

Hi Barry.

I am sure that you are right in assuming that some people in the world are looking for an excuse to go "Muslim Bashing" because of recent world events. It's probably true to say that America is targeted in much the same way for different reasons.

My main objections to Halal/Kosher is the removal of choice. For many years, the Jewish community have had their own Kosher butchers and Delis, in fact that is still the case. The prominence of Halal/ Kosher in the supermarkets around the world is nothing to do with choice, it is simply to cash in on the Muslim dollar.

Many Muslims will eat Kosher meat when Halal is not available and a lot of slaughter houses use the method of killing cattle by slitting their throats so as not to alienate any particular market. Again it was assumed that because of its religious connotations, the non religious or non Jewish/Muslim population would not care.

Having seen main stream slaughter houses who use this method on a production line basis, I would question its validity in civilised society.

The method that I have seen was to force the animal into a circular cage, rotate the cage through 180 degrees, wash its neck and then slit its throat. A door at the side of the cage is then opened and the animal is unceremoniously dumped to the ground. On many occasions, the animal is still alive at this stage and is left to stagger around until an employee hauls it into the air using a chain that is wrapped around one of its legs.

Although this is not considered to be traditional Kosher or Halal as the religious rituals are not performed, the meat can be sold as such as the beast has been bled. This will satisfy all but the most orthodox of Jews & Muslims.

At the risk of sounding pious. If there is a God, I doubt very much whether he (or she) would be happy in the way these creatures are treated in his name.

You are right Barry to suggest that we as meat eaters generally give scant regard to how our meal came to be on our plate. Maybe it's time that we did.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23378331-details/Vegetarians+are+more+intelligent%2C+says+study/article.do

Well, then there is always this reason (found on today's Drudge report) for not eating meat.

Have you ever thought that maybe they just typed Halal on they label to satisfy them?