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Local Items: Coneys and graysbys on the menu at Karpata
Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives 2005 - 2006: Archives - 2006-03-01 to 2006-07-31: Coneys and graysbys on the menu at Karpata
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill and Donna Goodwin (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #180) on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 7:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

[Moderators - note sure if this is the best section for this - we'll leave that up to you.]
This has been stewing around in our heads since it happened on Bonaire two weeks ago and frankly we don't know what to do with this information other than to post it on BT.

We were passing through Karpata on our way up to NuKove and noticed the little food place there was open. We had never seen it open before, and we thought it was a good sign - a little income for a local family and some security from thieves for divers parked at Karpata - so we stopped by to say hello. We met the couple who were running the place and their little girls.

Then the guy says, "We have some very good fish - very fresh - here, I show you..." He went across the room, picked up a metal tub, and brought it over to us. "See, fresh coneys and graysbys!"

We were appalled, taken aback, blown away, shocked... In the tub were at least 10 or 15 gutted fish, and I could see that he knew the names of our beloved mini-groupers fresh from the reefs of Bonaire. They were small, the size we all see every dive - the beautiful, ever-friendly, ultra-curious coneys and the marvelous spotted graysbys. I could hardly speak as we backed out, mumbled a good-bye and got back into the truck and drove out of there as fast as we could.

Okay, I understand that the locals have some sort of special privileges regarding fishing. We've seen their fishing boats operating out of makeshift fishcamps at NuKove to the north and Fish Hut to the south as well as the boats fishing near downtown and on Klein, and we've seen the guys with the throw nets at the Salt Pier. We've also seen the line and hooks tangled in the reef at more places than we can name, and we've seen several fish (including angelfish) with hooks and line hanging from their mouths. We've also noticed the relatively small number of groupers on Bonaire - reminding us of Cayman Brac (where we also twice a year) where there are MANY groupers in the no-fishing protected areas but very few everywhere else. We've heard the stories (Capt Don and others) about how many big groupers there USED to be in Bonairean waters.

So, are the locals actually allowed to fish for reef fish (as opposed to wahoo/ono and other open water species) and sell them as a commercial enterprise? Are the limits and excluded species and seasons and controls on number of fishermen? Every other country that I know of has such restrictions on their own populace to protect stocks, etc, etc. Bonaire has the added reason for such controls because their reefs are a direct source of very significant diving tourism income (is that too obvious to state?)

I would be surprised if these locals can take lobster or conch, so why can't they be restricted from catching reef fish for commercial purposes?

Every time I picture that tub of dead coneys and graysbys I don't know it I want to scream or cry. If the locals actually can do this, then all of us must strictly boycott them and let them know why. If they are not allowed to do this then I hope the BMP personnel (are you reading this Ramon and all others at BMP?) can enforce the rules.

Sorry if this has a bit of "venting" associated with it - but I gotta tell ya, I'm a big manly dude who happens to think coneys are some of the sweetest little characters you can meet in the wild - I take this personal. And Donna and I have sworn off eating grouper of any kind...



 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3340) on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 9:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Bill and Donna, Yes, I feel your pain in seeing that. I have seen far too many such things in the past two years as well in different locations, one really burns in my mind to this day. We all went to the yellow hut by the airport for a snorkel and there was this guy, not from Bonaire he said, but he was line fishing right there and using BLEACH to kill the fish! My son got so upset, we had to leave, I said something and he claimed he did not know it was illegal on Bonaire, but a few days later we go back and he is still there fishing, no bleach this time and we ran into Ms. Caren and she said what he was doing was illegal and she would report him to the right officials. I say he was there for about a week off and on after that. So, yes, I do know how you felt. The little fish he had were so little and he even had a little octopus to boot! I have reported such things to the right officials in the past and they say the local fisherman who have lived on island many, many years have the right to fish, but not on the reef, supposed to be on the outside of the reef. Not sure if the officials really enforce much of that or not. I am not on island full time and I really don't know where and where not is o.k. and where is o.k. for such fishing. The officials I spoke to said it is their only ways of supporting themselves, so they allow it at certain places. I was under the impression that grouper was flown in and not eaten from the local waters of Bonaire for those places that serve grouper. I think that the local fisherman sell their catches at Rincon as some of the fisherman have told me that I spoke to. You see fishing all the time near time right from the pier north of town till it gets dark. Hand line fishing, that is. It must be legal to hand line fish, but not net fish? There are so many levels of ways to fish, there must be some regulations somewhere, but I have never seen them, so really cannot comment except what I have witnessed personally.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #244) on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 11:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bill and Donna. I don't know what the rules are, but I would contact the director of STINAPA, Elsmarie Buekenboom, E-mail Address:
director@stinapa.org

I'm not sure if there is a direct phone line you can call when you see what might be illegal fishing. Maybe someone on island will know.

I'm going to move this thread to Local Items as hopefully someone who lives on Bonaire can help with more information.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2790) on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:01 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

There is a phone number on your Park tag that is a real good start, we've always gotten a quick response the several times we've called in to complain about rule breakers.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3220) on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:24 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Folks, please see:

http://www.bmp.org/html/fishing_regulations.html

and

http://www.bmp.org/html/protected_species.html

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #246) on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:37 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Tom. I've read that before but it really doesn't address someone catching a bunch of fish and selling it. I assume that is considered "commercial" and would require a special license? They also state that:

Bonaire's game fish

permit
barracuada
tarpon
nook
jack
wahoo
dorado
dolphin
tuna
bonefish

I don't see coney's or graysbys on the list.

They also state this:

"If you are offered a wildlife product or natural item for sale, ask questions about the product's origin. If the vendor seems poorly informed, think twice about your actions. Otherwise, your purchase could encourage continued illegal trade in wildlife, and be confiscated either before you leave Bonaire or on your return home."

So you did the right thing by not buying any and leaving.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3341) on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:44 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Seb and Tom! Very interesting, but I am still wondering if those rules are "just" for the park section of the island or for the south side and other areas I have seen fishing. Guess I could email them for further information so I know for future reference. I did know about the salt pans rules. Great info on those sites!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Wallace (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #162) on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 3:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bill and Donna. It sounds like a Bonairean trying to provide for his family to me. He has his family there with him trying to eke out a living on a fairly poor island. It's upsetting to think that he may be fishing right there in the surf zone of Karpata or elsewhere, and it may be illegal but,,,,. If we (divers) don't buy the fish at Karpata, maybe they'll go away? There used to be a small market at Karpata that sold drinks and food and was not profitable so ,it closed. I hope the officials in Bonaire can remedy such behavior but, as a visitor I can only express concern, not solutions. It's their island. It would be nice to have something (on a smaller scale) similar to the Pink Bus that was used at the southern dive sites to provide refreshments and food and security to those dive sites. Not much profit there either. Flow with the tide.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Gauron (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #599) on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 3:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bruce, well put.
We weekend quarterbacks from the north should use this more often."I can only express concern, not solutions".

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Chalk - Habitat - STINAPA - BONHATA (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #230) on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 9:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think we all need to take a step back and look at this situation from a different perspective. While I too, agree with Bill and Donna on their decision not to buy the fish, what right do we have to condemn a local person trying to provide for his family the best way he knows how. I have lived here for 18 years and at times I question the validity of over fishing, spearfishing and whatnot of depleting the stocks. Spearfishing was banned over 25 years ago on Bonaire and though there was some occasional poaching that did occur, there was none to the extent that would have "wiped out" a population and yet there are still no large groupers on the island to speak of. Does it take 25 years for a grouper to grow to 5, 10, 15, 25 lbs or larger? How many times have you seen grouper on the menu at a local restaurant?Very seldom...you mostly see tuna, wahoo, snapper and the occasional baracuda or smoked marlin.

Fishing of reef fish is not illegal though we do try and inform the local population of the importance of the reef fish to the overall economy of the island as a result of tourism. Ladies and gentlemen, your fervor and commitment to protecting the wildlife you so love and enjoy every time you go diving or snorkeling is to be applauded, however it should also be tempered with understanding and compassion for the cultural heritage of the island on which you are a visitor...regardless of which island or destination that is.

Yes, a visitor and a very welcome visitor at that. Even after 18 years of working, paying taxes, donating time and effort to worthy causes, I too am a visitor and will always be one and the minute I accepted that fact and stopped using words such as "boycott", "ban",
"stop" and such and began "suggesting and recommending" and using phrases such as "Why don't we", "What if we", "How about" the more people were willing to listen and if the case was presented convincingly enough, changes were and will continue to be made.

Bill, I know it's hard sometimes for I too (as most of you know) am a "big manly (biker) dude" and I also have a deep affection for "my fish and reef friends". But we have to sometimes take away the emotion and look at the bigger picture and while we may not agree all the time with things the way they are, we must respect the rights of the people who the island truly belongs to...the Bonaireians.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3349) on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 9:30 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Jack for putting things in the "right" perspective. You do have a way with words! :<)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #250) on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Jack:-) I also received a few emails stating that what they were doing was not illegal:-) I am glad that Bill and Donna brought this up because once again, it lead to learning and a healthy discussion:-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill and Donna Goodwin (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #181) on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ah, Jack - thank you. You are always the voice of reason. I anticipated your words because, well, because we know you are fair-minded. Plus you really have a handle on the place, especially the cultural values.

Donna and I, perhaps fancifully, imagine that we are also fair-minded (if not also a bit ignorant about local conditions), and we totally agree that wildlife management is ultimately the affair of the people who live there and gain or lose by their management policies. And a case can certainly be made that the locals have a right to fish as they always have. This sort of cultural momentum is generally beyond reproach, especially when the reproachers are not locals.

I'm a local myself - Southern California where I lived (dived, surfed, sailed) for 40 years - but as a local I could not catch certain kinds of fish at certain times, certain places or beyond certain numbers, and I couldn't catch some fish and crustaceans at all, even though I was a local.

Bonaireans are subject to the no-take laws on turtles and conch. Why not include reef fish that grow and reproduce slowly (e.g., goliaths live 37 years) or the species that play crucial roles in the balance of reef life? Why aren't Bonaireans allowed to use traditional methods to take turtles and conch? I don't ask this from a sense of logical consistency. That's probably nit-picking, so...

Let's try a more positive tack - traditional fishing on the reefs for coneys and graysbys (and the unwanted by-catch that's used for bait or left to rot - those pesky angels and parrots should know better than to hit a baited hook!) in order to support one's family is hard to oppose. Only a hard-hearted and close-minded person would condemn that - unless there is a viable alternative melding the financial needs, traditions, and requirements for environmental protection.

Perhaps the answer is a training program to prepare local youth (including future commercial fishermen) for entering the diving and hotel industries, and a program for increasing appreciation of the amazing ecological circumstances of Bonaire. I've seen some reference to this on BT - no way do I believe I'm the first to come up with such a brilliant idea - and I'm also sure that the people who matter have hashed this through many times. Maybe there are reasons (financial, cultural, bureaucratic, maybe all?) why a training program won't work.

Clearly I'm just fishin'(oops) for a way to increase reef protection. Maybe I should just forget it and help the evidently best and only way I really can - with my tourist dollars. All this is our emotional (do I mean childish?) response to that tub of dead coneys and graysbys... sigh.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2425) on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 11:05 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Spearfishing is illegal on Bonaire as noted above, for those of you who may not know, .

The June 14 update of Amigoé online has an article titled 'Spearfishermen Caught Red Handed' (http://www.amigoe.com/english/):

'Diving gear and speared fish 

'BONAIRE – Nature organization Stinapa had caught a person again that was busy spearing fish.  This person will be prosecuted. 

'For years, catching fish with a spear and catching sea turtles have been prohibited in Bonaire.  Lately, the rangers of Stinapa have caught people on numerous occasions spearing fish.  A man was caught with a spear at the southern part of the island.  He was all geared up for diving and entered the water near Pink Beach with a spear in his hand and caught six fish.  The rangers alarmed the police when the man started to fight with them.  Same happened a few weeks ago, when a spear fisherman threatened the chief ranger with his life.  He even threatened the ranger outside the courtroom.

'According to the law, any type of spear fishing is liable to punishment.  Also the sale of harpoons and the carrying of harpooned fish are liable to punishment.  After spear fishing has been banned for 40 years in Bonaire, it is strange that Stinapa is still catching people doing this.  The rangers are going to keep their eyes extra open and will be tough on people with harpoons.'

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #349) on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 1:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Read the article..Makes you wonder what is wrong with some people! If someone wants to catch fish for personal consumption (or sale), do it in a sporting way, with a rod & reel. I think the punishment should be mandatory time doing conservation and clean up work on the island for the next 90 days plus a fine. I'd like to know what type of punishment they eventually receive.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeanine Missing Bonaire (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2692) on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 1:20 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi all! Having just returned from Bonaire and having been to the food place at Karpata, I wanted to chime in for a moment. When I first found the food stand, I did not link it to this post. I for some reason had it in my mind that this post referred to Hill Top (Oil Slick), not Karpata. We did eat at this stand more than once. He never offered us fish. He only sells hotdogs and chicken nuggets. I'm not sure if the message got to him that divers don't want graysbys, if I have the wrong location (this one is right at the entrance for diving Karpata, or what happened exactly. However, if this is the stand at the entrance to Karpata, the man was very friendly (actually rescued a female diver who tried exiting the wrong way), watches the cars while divers are out, and makes the best darn hotdogs on the island. Again...no fish.

After re-reading the original post, I think the hotdog place at Karpata has to be a different location. It is run by one man who has a son and a daughter. Would Bill or Donna please post back about exactly where they had this happen?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill and Donna Goodwin (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #196) on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 1:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jeanine... We did indeed have that very nice and friendly fellow at the bright-colored Karpata stand offer us whole gutted/scaled coneys and graysbys (he named them by name and when I looked at them in the tub, the skin remaining on their heads bore out the accuracy of what his identifications. We are gratified to hear he does not (ever, hopefully) offer these fish now.

He, his wife and children were really nice folks, and they certainly offer a quantum increase in security at a site that has seen much pilferage in the past.

Again Jeanine, thanks for the good news.

BTW, Ms J, what does an environmental historian do?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeanine Missing Bonaire (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2693) on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 1:49 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for the quick reply. I really have mixed feelings now. I sent a lot of people to that stand because if you are up north you don't have many options and he is very fast and they really are the best darn hotdogs I have ever tasted. I'm sorry to hear that he did offer the fish. I am glad that he didn't offer them to us. Hopefully he is done with that practice.

An environmental historian bores her classes with lectures on how humans interact with their environment (shape it, change it, love it, ruin it, etc...). I also teach history survey courses and political science.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #352) on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 4:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

3 cheers for hot dogs & chicken nuggets at Karpata.
Now if only he can grill some italian sausage!
Also nice that he can keep an eye on the trucks.

 


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