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Local Items: Armed robbery
Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives 2005 - 2006: Archhives - 2005-11-08 to 2006-03-01: Armed robbery
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #293) on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 10:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

There was an armed robbery in Hato (Between Kralingen-town and Sabadeco, near to the electricity-plant).
On Friday-evening around 09:30 pm. four persons with bags on their heads walked into one of the houses on the seaside, through the porch-entrance. The woman that lives there, a dutch tourist, was alone in the house. The assault-takers (note: I don't know if this is the right word?) were armed with at least one big knife and a gun. They probably entered the backside of the house over the beach, or through one of the pathways between the houses. She was not hurt luckily, although the assault-takers kicked her towards the legs. I don't know what and of what value they took.
I think it is very bad, that when she called the police, after the guys left, she got the answer from the police to come to the police-station to make a report. I think it is terrible that you have to do such a thing, when you are obvious in a kind of shock-position. But she went and made her report. Next morning they could come, four policecars were there.
We have shortly spoken to her, and she still is in a kind of desolate condition, but tonight she will go back to sleep in her house again. Brave.

The neighbours in the surroundings have made some precautions to warm each others when there are strange sightings or so. (unknown people on the beach for instance), and warning-systems between the neighbours.

Very strange, a robbery in town, or in Sabadeco isn't far as much impressive as when it is your nearby neighbour. Then it is coming near to you. A good and also-during wake-up-hours-working alarm-system is about a "must" now. Mind you, it was just 09:30 pm.!

I hope the police can show some more activity now to catch these people. It is not as worse as some year ago during the Sabadeco-robbery, but still...... frightening.
Some other BT-posters will probably post some comments tomorrow in the papers or so.

Hope to have a quiet sleep tonight.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3127) on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 11:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, thank you for your post. I had heard of this horrific crime via e-mails and telephone conversation today. The lack of immediate action by the police is disgusting.

Brave woman indeed.

My thoughts are with you all.

Tom

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cindy W. (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #443) on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 11:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am absolutely speechless.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Taft (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #607) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:07 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, thank you for your post. Like Tom, I too had heard of this tragedy. My thoughts are with the victim, everyone in Hato and all the wonderful people of Bonaire. My home was recently broken into and items stolen but I was thankfully not home. I can empathize with the victim of this crime but cannot in any way imagine what she must be feeling. I was fortunate to have a responsive police department and can understand the frustration you all must feel that she had to go to the police instead of them coming to her. I hope that all of you are able to get some sleep ...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #237) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 6:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I can NOT comprehend why the police could not get their asses down there ASAP when they received the tel call from this unfortunate woman. I think this is almost as reprehensible as the crime itself.
After all if they're not doing THEIR job, they're stealing from the taxpayers.Who's paying these guy's salaries? What's their motto to the community, "when you get attacked you have to come to us to report it".
Perhaps someone from the local police can jump into this, but personally I view this as quite disgusting.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2146) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 8:12 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hello all. This is disturbing to say the least. I'm sitting here thinking to myself, would I even know what to do if something happens like this on my next trip? No, I wouldn't. I know, don't fight back, let them take what they want etc.; but, what are the steps involved to get help? I don't even know the phone number to the police station.

Is there an old thread or something someone could point me to?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #426) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

What's this you say?!?

Ineffective Bonarian Police?!?

Outlaws having guns where guns are outlawed?!?

As a Chicago native I am simply shocked and stunned, shocked and stunned I tells ya'.

That the victim was not murdered or maimed IS a very good thing, as to the "crime on Bon" topic, the archives are filled with commentary.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2147) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:15 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Randy...fellow Chicago native here as well. I was serious with my post. I have went through the archives and there is lots of commentary, but that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for facts. What's the phone number? Where is the police station located? What about fire, etc??? I assume they do not use the 911 number system that we do, but can't seem to find what to do. I even found commentary in a trip report on ambulances choosing when they will come to scenes. How does one convince police, fire, ambulance that they are needed? What are the protocols, the basic laws, etc... Maybe we can get some good solid information instead of all of the usual commentary. Maybe we are evaluating their system based upon our own, when in fact they are functioning within their legal structure? Many countries simply do not have the infrastructure we do. It is our responsibility as guests in their country to learn the laws and know what to do. I cannot seem to find out what these laws are and the information put out by the US State Department is not very helpful. Any factual information out there?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #294) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:31 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here we go:

Police: 911
Hotline of Police (Tipline): 9208
Ambulance: 912
Hospital: 717 8900
Fire dpt.: 919
Coast Guard: 913

Store those in your cell-phone, just as I did, moments ago.


As to point out the location of the Police office, Perhaps the officers will be so kind to tell you how to get there when you make a phone call, but it is on the right side of the Telbo-building (Telephone company), a little bit back from the main street. That main street is "Kaya S. Bolivar", and the street on which the police station is located is probably "Kaya Hermandad", but that information won't help very much as there are not many streetsigns. Actually it is very near to the Tourist Office, just on the other side of the road.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2148) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:33 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you Harrie!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gail Thomas (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1067) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:41 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you for posting this Harrie. I like keeping up on all things happening on Bonaire, good and bad.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #427) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 11:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Jeanine,

Please excuse my failed attempt at levity in the midst of crisis.

From all that I have read here and elsewhere on this particular topic, there doesn't seem to be much difference in one's situation if the Bonaire Police are called or not. Might as well just let them sleep.

Perception tends to become operative reality and sadly that perception does not seem to be improving. In fact it would seem that level of assault is escalating from petty car breakins to plain unarmed burglary to sticks, to knives, to guns. It doesn't make Bonaire any different than MY home town and neighborhood to be sure.

I'm not likely to be leaving my home in Chicago (just a few miles east of Midway airport)to live elsewhere, nor would I choose to vacation anywhere else than Bonaire. It's just another reality check. There are NO paradises.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tish (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1060) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Two points:
1) I'm also originally from Chicago, and the crime rate is a whole lot higher per capita there than it is here. No place is 100% crime free, but Bonaire seems like paradise to this Chicago native.
2) What the police did was absolutely unacceptable. And I have just learned that the victim is pregnant.
My neighbor is head of the island security police (a different agency, not the same as the regular police to whom the woman placed her call). I have written to ask him to find out what the police thought they were doing in refusing to come. Although the woman is Dutch, and the police are supposed to speak Dutch, there might have been some communication failure or another major crime in progress. If I learn anything to explain (no excuses accepted, but explain) why the police did not rush to that house, I will post it here.
Since I live on Bonaire, I am naturally very worried about this situation.
Please stay safe everybody!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #180) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harry
I use to live in the area of the robbery and still house sit....do you know which house it was? Near Peereboom's?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2150) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tish...this is even sadder news now. I am very thankful the woman and her baby were not hurt. What is this island security police you wrote about? Can anyone call them in a crisis or is it a private agency?





 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan - BSDME (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #263) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tish,
I also knew about her pregnancy but out of respect for her privacy chose not to post that information. Susan

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #295) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 2:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan,
Like you did, I also didn't post the 4-month-pregnancy- information because of privacy-reasons.

Sue, for the same reason I will send you the information you asked for directly on your private mail-address.

I heard some more information. The guys, 2 long ones and two short ones, with plastic bags on their heads, throw the woman on the ground, one kept her there, and the others searched the house. They took several things, of which a part was found back the next morning, some 300 meters from the house, where their car was probably parked, and they threw away what they couldn't use.
Yes it was quite brutal, frightening. Everybody keeps their doors locked after dawn! And install some automatic lights around the house, will perhaps help a little bit too. And is good for the WEB too......


Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tish (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1066) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 2:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

BTers, I need your help. So does the victim.
Jeanine, Susan, and Harrie, please write to moderators@bonairetalk.com and ask that references to the victim's pregnancy be deleted from your messages.
I did this right after I posted my message. But the moderator I contacted refused because somebody else had already mentioned it.
Here's what happened: I heard from a very public source about the pregnancy. I therefore assumed it was in the papers already and posted it. Then I learned I was mistaken. I would NEVER have posted that information otherwise.
Please assist me with this.
Thanks!!
Tish

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #41) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Could we PLEASE keep the unfounded speculation down to a low roar, try not to post things we should not be posting, and maintain a modicum of respect and deference for the feelings of the victim? Usually a good rule of thumb to tell if you should post something is to think whether you would want it posted about YOU. I don't care if BT gets scooped by the Bonaire Reporter or anyone else. This is not Television News.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5793) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tish,

You're asking to have the moderators close the bag after the cat's already left. Way too late for that...

Sue - North of where you're thinking by several houses (and thus some houses north of where I used to live on the shore in Hato).

Bad stuff like this makes me thankful for those damn bars on my windows and doors (which came with the house when we bought it, but which we actively decided to keep). Also makes me thankful for my dogs...

I'm still aghast at the police response (or lack thereof).

Jake

PS Bravo Seb.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #42) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I did some screwing around with this thread, but I have restored it to it's original form. Deleting messages is not allowed under our operating procedures, especially after the messages have been responded to.

Post Carefully: the reputation you hurt may be your own.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tish (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1067) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Moderators,
Your stated policy is that messages can be edited if the poster contacts you and requests it.
Evidently that is not what you meant.
I have been devoting about two hours per day to monitoring BT and answering people's questions. Because I live here, I have often been able to answer questions that others could not answer.
I think those who have watched me do this on various topics know that I have tried to help people, not hurt them.
However, that does not appear to be the concern of the moderators.
I must therefore decline to participate further in BT.
To those lovely folks I have met at the Gibi's Tuesday night dinners and the friends I have made online, don't be a stranger.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rosanne Nandan (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 4:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think we should all for one, think about the victim and hope that she is o.k..
I awake to my local news every morning and hear about the gang violence in our schools and neighborhoods, the domestic abuse cases, the homeless and the poor. I like to think of Bonaire as a little peace of heaven. I am however a realist and know that crime and violence is in every part of the world where life exists. Let's be smart and take proper precautions when we are visiting anywhere, and lets not let this ruin the beauty and peace Bonaire has come to represent to so many of us.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #43) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 4:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I find nowhere in our stated policies the information Tish cites. Our policy is clear:

"That said, we will not edit, remove, or otherwise change posts made by people who later decide, for whatever reason that they did not want to post what they ended up writing. So, think twice before confirming that you want your message preview content posted. BonaireTalk messages are publicly archived indefinitely, so please make sure that you don't post something you may regret tomorrow or years from now."
Any questions, please first read the policies at the link below.


BT Policies



 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Antony Bond (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 5:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

This is very sad to see, the problem seems to be a combination of a few things. I believe that the prevention of petty theft is more successful due to word of mouth, sites like this have helped a lot. However, the would be thieves still require their "loot" to finance whatever habits they are supporting. If the "soft" targets are diminishing then they have to resort to plan B, hence this latest crime.
Other factors are the lack of Police response/presence and also lack of consequences. If juveniles are commiting these crimes (it is reported that juveniles are responsible for the majority of petty crime) the problem remains that facilities of detention and correction do not exsist here. A slap on the wrist is little deterrent when weighed up against the potential rewards.
Although I would not encourage anyone to "have a go" I do believe that the law is changing to give the householder the right to defend their own property. I believe that now it is illegal to detain a would be thief/attacker while waiting for the Police to arrive and that you can potentially be charged with false imprisonment.
lets hope that these scumbags are caught quickly and punished accordingly. Don't forget that it was only with the help of the good people of Bonaire that the assailents in the Sabedeco robery were brought to justice. I am sure that with local help, these people will soon be caught.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #296) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 5:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Come on, people, what was this post about?
About a terrible crime happened on Bonaire again. Which makes us all very insecure, and about a woman, the victim of that crime, and about the bad reaction of the police.
But not about the policies of the BT moderators. Is that what is important at this point???????

Jake, do you realise what this means?
all your bars and things on your house don't help anything, when you are sitting outside on your porch in the evening, enjoying a drink after sunset, and those guys walk easily into your garden, with a gun pointed at you? You will just have the possibility to sit inside your house, behind the bars.... It happened, remember 09:30 pm.!!!!! Don't tell me about your dogs, yes, they help, until they get poisoned, what happened here several times.
Whatever, sitting inside and guys coming onto you with a gun, you also don't have any chance, btw. I think it is about time to get a gun and shooting lessons.....
At least my panic-button is again within reach.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5794) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 5:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie,

I guess I was basing things on the fact that I rarely find myself sitting outside at night after dinner, and by 8 or 9pm my house is locked up and I'm either in bed, in my office, or vegetating on my couch with a movie. But you do make a good point that it could happen anytime, anywhere, when you least expect it...

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gail Thomas (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1072) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 6:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

And so those who will be vacationing where they sometimes sit out very late, outside their rooms, chatting and rehashing the day's events and dives, can also be vulnerable to these bums.... And we don't have dogs to warn us or weapons.... This is very unsettling.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #44) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:31 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tish refers to this message she received:

"Sorry, but the message you were attempting to edit was posted more than 2
minutes ago. You are not permitted to edit messages more than 2 minutes old.
If the message needs to be edited, contact a moderator, who can edit the
message for you through the administration program.

Please contact BonaireTalk Moderators if this problem persists."

Tish cites an informational message, not our posting policy. "Can edit" does not mean moderators will edit, or must edit your message. It means the moderators have the technical ability to edit your message. Whether a mod will or not is an entirely different question, and based on our rules, contract, and consensus. The message means exactly what it says; any perceived promise to edit is a projection of the reader, and invalid.

Please read our policies at Posting Policy and please do not hesitate to ask for clarification from moderators@bonairetalk.com

What you post is here forever.

Thank You

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By shawn thiele (BonaireTalker - Post #99) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I've lived in the not so nice parts of town for a fair amount of my life, which granted isn't long. One day while i'm sitting in my living room a guy tried climbing in through the window. I chased him out with my bat in just boxers. Luckily for me though the police came right away. Hell the first month i lived in that place there were 7 murders within a mile of my apartment. I'm sure bonaire can't be much worse than some of the places I've lived lol. I feel bad for this woman, especially given the circumstances with her medical issues, you guys are all going to be in trouble with hipaa ;) lol.

I think the key we need to remember here is that there is crime everywhere in the world. You can't let one or 2 incidents ruin your vacations. Even after hearing this I still plan on walking out staring out at the stars at night by myself(hey if any single ladies will be there when i am feel free to join me ;) lol). Live your life the way you want to live it. If you're unfortunate enough to have something like this happen to you, then you just got unlucky. I'm not saying you should walk down an alley at 3am on the south side of chicago or anything, but sit out and enjoy the stars if you want. Your chances of getting mugged I would say are pretty slim.

However I am really disappointed by the police response. I think this is rediculous and would like to hear more about this. I've never heard of such poor quality for police. Even 3rd world countries have a better response to these types of attacks. This kind of reminds me of when I worked in the crappier part of Milwaukee and this kid got shot, took the ambulance and police to get there, but there was nothing else major going on that night. They were waiting for things to cool down no doubt and the kid bled to death and died.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #429) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:50 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'll stay out of any potential urinating contest between posters and moderators but....

Several other web boards I frequent allow the poster to edit their posts forever. The edit/delete function is simply built into the software. The moderators also still maintain the ability to delete anyone's posts that are not deemed appropriate, but the authors can amend commentary or even such faux pas as spelling and grammar errors.

It is a rather handy feature.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #297) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:10 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Moderators!

Can you please change the discussion about editing posts and the complaints about the moderators to another (new) thread? This thread is about crime on Bonaire!

Harrie

(Message edited by harmoni on March 7, 2006)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freddie Hughes {Moderator} (Moderator - Post #133) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 11:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie if you and others would stop talking about it this thread would get back on track. we will not move these posts just like we will not remove the other posts above.. Now back to the crime issue!!!!! Has anyone heard anything else that can be posted?????

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2658) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 11:12 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Okay, CRIME. Does anyone have any factual and verifiable information that does not compromise the investigation of the crime or the privacy of the victim, and is within the posting rules, that they would like to share?

Hey Harrie, have you ever seen any crime statistics about Bonaire in your Dutch papers?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #430) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

OK then, crime it is....sorta.

A quick search of the BT archives shows 365 posts with the word "crime" in the posting and 34 with the word burglar/burglary. Anyone curious to re-read the same notions is welcome to wade through them.

And while the general discussion of these past unfortunate events has some level of merit I reckon, it does appreciable little to solve the problem. THAT rests with the good citizens and the governing agencies on Bonaire. If they do not affect changes, then nothing will change.

I have always advised prospeepctive visitors to Bonaire to pack their sense of humor, sense of adventure AND common sense and enjoy the experience.

I'm just an infrequent visitor who LOVES the island, wishes he was wealthy enough to visit more often, and recognizes that life itself is a gamble wherever you are or wherever you go. Thankfully I live in a city that NEVER has any crime - Chicago. lol

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #298) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry Freddie,
But it was me, who wanted to stay on track....

Back to track now.

I didn't hear anything anymore. Also on the radio there was no comment, (or we missed it). We also read very rarely newspapers, and then mostly the BonaireReporter, so I have no more info for the moment. When we saw the woman (Sunday-afternoon) she was not really back to normal, and I doubt if she will ever come back to Bonaire again.
There must be people on BT who have read things about this in the newspapers, please give a note?

Yes I know something about crime statistics on Bonaire. At least some 4/5 years ago. When we decided to move to the Sun, it was part of the investigation. I had several articles from good Dutch weekly's about that issue. There are not many places in the world with higher ratings on safety. It was actually one of the reasons for us to decide for Bonaire. I don't have those figures anymore. I just remember Saba and St.Eustatius having lower crime-rates, but those islands were too small for me. Curacao is really much worse, as Aruba and St.Maarten too. These crime-rates are normally related to the number of population. So Curacao, having some 17 times as much inhabitants with a relative higher crime rate, must be really very bad. Also all the islands in the Caribbean like Haiti, Jamaica, the Virgins, Dominican Republic, and even Guadeloupe, St. Barth and even the Bahamas were worse. Only Cuba, I remembered, got better ratings, but I don't think you can trust those figures for Cuba really. Actually it is a lot safer in Bonaire then in the Netherlands itself.
Personally, I don't have reasons to think it is different now from 4 years ago.
I was robbed in the Netherlands, France, Spain (Islas Canarias), Italy, Roumania, India, even in the USA, several times. And up to now not robbed in Bonaire.

Also depending on your behaviour, take necessary precautions always, everywhere, anytime.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #537) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Quickly, the moderators are doing a great job IMHO. Bonaire Talk goes on because the moderators have taken on the task. So, moderators keep it up!!! It may be time for another email/letter writing campaign. Is it just me or does it seem like the authorities on Bonaire get on the job when they start receiving letters reference a recent crime that threatens to cut down on the number of tourists visiting Bonaire then start to slack off when the volume of anti-crime mail slacks off? Seems that way to me so does anyone have those email addresses that have been posted on Bonaire Talk before - time they heard from me again I reckon. Thanks in advance to whoever post the addresses. I'll be doing whatever I damn well please on my 7th trip to Bonaire in June while taking the usual precautions of course Bad guys or no. Its all good on Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Phillips (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #355) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 1:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I keep hearing things from Bonaire residents about how the new police chief is a vast improvement over the old one and that he is trying to make things better. Does anyone who lives on island have any comment on this?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #299) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 1:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I don't have really experience on the way of working of the new chief, I also hear good comments too, and I saw him busy instructing his subordinates during the Carnival-festivities. He looked very pro-active, and did the right things to have his guys do their jobs, in stead of just enjoying themselves looking at the procession. But if you hear what happened to the Robbed woman, "some" improvement should be done.
What I know is that the police-force is very busy at the moment with checking the tax-paid-stickers on the cars. Priority One.

Harrie
edited by moderator

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #300) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry, I used a wrong word, I think.
Please read robbed in stead of XXXX.

My English is not too good...

Sorry again

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #141) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, thank you for all of your comments and information. Go to TTOL (www.traveltalkonline.com), ST. Maarten and do a search for crime....this past month there were murders in Marigot.

I'll search for the numbers and names of the authorities that have been posted before.

Cynde

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #143) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, no problem. I Freddie caught it at the same time I did. My Dutch is not good at all ;-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cyn (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #17240) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

OK, found them:

Gedeputeerde van Tourism:
Burney Elhage
elhage@bonairelive.com
Bestuurskantoor
Plasa Wilhelmina
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-4020


Gezaghebber Herbert Domacasse:
gezag@bonairelive.com
Bestuurskantoor
Plasa Wilhelmina
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-5330 tst. 220

Ramonsito Booi ( Statenlid)
rtbooi@bonairelive.com
Ministerraad Bonaire
J.A. Abraham Blvd.
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-5330 tst 117/118

Extra Bonaire
E-mail Address(es):
extrabon@telbonet.an

I do believe that Gezaghebber Herbert Domacasse WAS the head of police. I don't know the contact information for the new police chief but will try to find out.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #538) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Cyn. My emails will be on the way to Bonaire shortly. I'll send one to the head of police later assuming the address can be found. Good Job!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1449) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think this is a good time to reflect on how Bonairetalk gives far more information about crime on Bonaire than any other comparable island. I am not suggesting censorship but more interested in how the bigger picture could be seen. I mean no disrespect for the victim of this crime and hope that she recovers fully and am ashamed by the lameful response of the Bonaire Police force.

One of my co-workers asked me about Bonaire as he windsurfs and I sent him a link to Bonairetalk and I got back the following within 30 minutes "I took a look at the Weblink, there seemed to be a lot of discussion about the dangers of crime in Bonaire Ė Have you any thoughts on the subject?"

My response was "The reporting on the board is well out of proportion to the reality, crime is less there than in most places around the world especially the Caribbean. Bonaire does have a very active web community and any crime gets way too much attention relative to the risks. We have been there 12 times usually for two weeks and have had one incident; once I had my camera stolen after I left it unattended.

One thing where Bonaire is very different is that Shore Diving is very common and people leave the cars unattended for around an hour in some very isolated spots, people leave things of value in the car and a petty thief may be around. They have clamped down on it, but if you are sensible and use your senses you should not be bothered. I have not personally seen any violence on the island of any sort and we have always felt very safe walking around at night.

We view Bonaire as a home from home, it is politically stable as part of the Dutch Antilles and hopefully will be governed directly from Holland next year rather than via Curacao to Holland now. The tradewinds are fairly brisk and constant and you are out of the normal hurricane belt, they do get wind reversals sometimes in Sep/Oct and can have no wind on some odd days; this is rare.

When are thinking of going?"

I think proportion needs to be part of the debate, we can't sweep crime under the table or let the police and government be complacent.

Comments...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #539) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'd agree with Brian. The crime issue should not be a show stopper when deciding on travel to Bonaire; yet, the pressure should be kept on the police and government to continually improve the situation.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2163) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 5:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm always trying to find the bright side, so here goes with respect to Brian and Marcus. I think we see the posts on crime and openly discuss it here because crime is not the norm - it is the exception. No one would be shocked by, or even want to discuss really, the amount of crime on Jamaica or in the Dominican Republic. It is a given - hotels there hire armed guards and you do not leave the property. I think it is great that 1) Bonaire is so small and so non-violent that we are outraged when something happens and 2) we have this wonderful venue to discuss it when it does happen.

The problem is not with proportion. The problem is with the people who do not follow BT regularly and then they scan a few things and come up with crime as being a big issue. If they would take the time and really read the threads, they would know that crime - especially violent crime - is not the norm.

How do we get them to read and pay attention? I have no idea. People filter at will and only take away what they want. I don't even know if this is a bad thing...more island for me to enjoy.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #145) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I've sent out a couple of emails about the new Chief of Police contact info, and any other numbers/info that might be of help. Once I receive anything back I will post it here.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norm Duke (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 7:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

My wife and I will be visiting Bonaire for the first time in April and it is distressing to read about the crime in this thread. I thought it might be interesting to share this with everyone
We have lived in a tourist community called Jackson Hole, Wyoming for 33 years. For the first 15 years, the valley was relatively crime free. It was a very small community during that time. Now, it has grown tremendously and as happens in many tourist communities, all the negative things that go along with growth, such as crime, grow along with it. In our weekly newspaper, we have a section called the police blotter. There were 631 police related events recorded between 2/20/06 and 2/26/06 which includes a few break-ins and robberies, some assaults, lots of petty crime (ski theft) but mostly drunken tourist related crimes. So the bottom line is crime happens everywhere and from all the crime related threads in Bonaire Talk, the best advise is the same as it is here in Jackson, use common sense.
We plan to have a fantastic time while in Bonaire (using common sense) Thanks to all for the great advice we have been receiving from everyone over the last few weeks.
Norm and Marva

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Wagner (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Norm and Marva (and everyone),

My family and I have been to Bonaire a half a dozen times, as recently as this past January. We have never had a negative incident and have found the Bonairean people, the Dutch, and the other Bonairean residents to be friendly delightful people overall. Like all places there are of course a few bad eggs, and as the population increases, unfortunately so will incidents of crime.

We are planning to build a home and move to Bonaire in our retirement (or sooner if possible). We have full confidence that we will be able to live there relatively safely. I live near Boston today. If you want to look at incidents of crime per capita Iíd be happy to share some numbers with you.

The violent crime that there is on Bonaire gets highlighted because it is an unusual occurrence (by American standards) and is unacceptable to the residents, as it should be. I am hopeful that the Bonairean government and police will take the appropriate measures to insure that acts of violence stay in check and are kept to a minimum by enforcing the laws, changing the laws when necessary, and prosecuting those that break them. I hope that the authorities on Bonaire have access to this thread on BT and will read it.

Even with the few acts of violence that do occur, Bonaire is still a paradise.

Jim and Joanne Wagner

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #58) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

we are here and having a great time, everyone should get a grip!!! This thread is real amusing.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #338) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 6:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

"This thread is real amusing."

I didn't find anything amusing about this thread. Too many amstels maybe??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jenny redner (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 10:44 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

How effective are dogs at deterring criminals from your home?

Someone mentioned dogs getting poisoned... who does this and why?

I'm moving to Bonaire this summer, and this thread certainly has me concerned.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #35) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 11:01 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I wasn't going to comment on this, but...

This incident is not about common sense, to the contrary, this is about brazen criminals performing a "Home Invasion" at 9:30PM against a target they thought likely weak and easily compromised. Thatís just plain scary for any visitor to Bonaire. Visitors who should feel reasonably secure in their domicile while sitting down to read a book in the evening with the lights on and the sliding door open so she can feel the cooling trade winds the island is famous for.

2004 seems to be the banner year for home invasions on Bonaire. Is it possible that one of the "kids" convicted in 2004 is out already and back to their old tricks? Frankly, it wouldnít surprise me, knowing the lax state of the judiciary towards crime throughout the Caribbean (itís a money issueóas in, cost to imprison vs. the threat of recidivism and loss of tourist revenue).

Then, to add insult to injury for this unfortunate person, the Police donít respond to a violent crime scene! What the heck is that? What kind of fourth rate police force...never mind, I think I know.

To reiterate my point, this isnít a common sense issue. In my view the outrage here is a lack of proactive policing; a, "hey itís good enough for government work," attitude from the Bonairian Police; barefaced, fearless criminals; and just the unabashed willingness of these few bad actors to sully the good name and reputation of a relatively low crime paradise.

Ok, so I commented,
Jon

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grasshopper (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #17256) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 11:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jenny, a lot of folks have dogs. They are effective to some extent because they scare would be intruders away. There have been a few poisonings but I have no idea the number. I think I've read about one in the 6 1/2 years I have been reading BT. Keep in mind there will be crime anywhere you move in this world. Read Harrie's post above again, as to why he chose to move to Bonaire over other Carib islands.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #146) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 11:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here is the name and mailing address of the new Police Chief. They did not have an email address for him. Maybe someone on island will have it.

Mr. Jan van der Straten
Kaya Libertador Simon Bolivar # 4
Kralendijk
Bonaire

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norm Duke (BonaireTalker - Post #45) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So Jon, should everyone stay away for fear of crime? Should everyone who has moved there pack up and leave? My point is that for the visiting divers and tourist, common sense is the rule, not only here, but anywhere in the world.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #56) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The telephone book lists the email address for the former police chief (Daantje) as:
polbon@bonairenet.com

I would imagine there's a good chance it will work for Mr. van der Straten (who is, by the way, the former police commissioner of Aruba), but I have not yet tried it myself.

Alex

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #36) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

No Norm, I would still recommend Bonaire as a wonderful vacation spot to friends, family, and clients. However, I would hate to see lack of positive policing coupled with an increasingly aggressive criminal element ruin one of the last truly peaceful places on earth.

I would hate to see Bonaire become like Provo or Belize where visitors are told early and often to stay on the resort property--donít go on the beach at night, because you will be mugged. Visiting places like those cheats the tourist of going out into the community and meeting the people: 99% of who are nice and kind, generous, lovely folks.

My point with this specific incident--and all home invasions, anywhere in the world--is that it is unreasonable to blame "a lack of common sense" on the part of the victim as contributing to the crime in any way, shape, or form. My point is that the boldness of criminals in this case is attributable to their total lack of fear for the police and/or getting caught. And, the only way criminals loose that fear is because the police arenít doing police work, theyíre out enforcing tax policy or sipping coffee at their desk.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jenny redner (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What are the laws concerning defense of your property in a situation like this?

In other words, if a burgular enters your home, do you have the right to use physical force? Guns are illegal, right?

Say for example you hit a person who has broken into your home with a baseball bat, and he is seriously injured or killed (hypothetical scenario, of course). Is this self-defense/defense of property or assault/murder?

Here in the US, burgulars have sued the owners of the home they broke into for dog bites and won! I hope the legal system isn't this ridiculous on Bonaire...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grasshopper (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #17265) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jenny, guns are illegal on Bonaire. I'm not sure what the "self defense" laws are on Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #106) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think everyone is just getting a little too defensive and worried. We all know to use common sense(or should) when we are on these trips. Obviously this wasn't that type of case, just some bad luck on her part. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It happens. From the few stories I hear on here, I really am not too terribly worried about the actual crime itself on the island. It just gets blown way out of proportion because the size of the island is so much smaller.

The real issue here is the police themselves and that's it in my opinion. I still would like to hear their response to this if any of you get one. Does she have any right to sue them? I think if people were able to take financial liabilities against them they might be more inclined to respond to things. It makes you almost wonder if they know who is doing it, but don't want to stop them. With an island size of 15K inhabitants, everybody pretty much knows everybody I would think. It wouldn't take long for people to figure out who was out that night and what they were doing. I'm not one to bring up conspiracy theories, but this seems pretty whack. If they don't have the jail capacity couldn't they "ban" them from the island after so many offenses?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #540) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think Jon (and others) hit the nail on the head. When the smoke clears, this issue comes down to the criminals lack of fear for the police and the police department's lack of competence/motivation. I plan on telling them that(again)since I plan to continue visiting Bonaire, for, oh, the rest of my life!! Cyn posted the info - go for it!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #301) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 2:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So many questions, and I know so few answers.


First of all, I didn't hear anything at all from the follow-up of the robbery. Nothing on TV, nothing on radio, nothing in the journals, and even nothing in the rumours. I think because the woman wasn't injured, and also left Bonaire, it was again hushed up.
Wait for tomorrow? Or BonaireReporter coming thursday?


About all your questions:
Give it a little try:

1. Many more then one dog have been poisoned over the last 4 years (my experience on Bonaire). I would say for what I heard at least 15. And I will certainly not hear everything. Several of them were poisoned certainly because they were giving trouble to the neighbours, whatever kind of. At least five times, as I know the poisoning was followed by burglary, same evening, or one of the next days. My concern was at that time very big, because there was a dog in my house, that I really liked. Now there is no dog anymore. Just an alarm system. That cannot be poisoned at least. I have seen several times that the locals are quite afraid of an agressive-looking dog.
2. We are very secure in using the alarm-system. And I just upgraded it, and I am still looking for better protection. But also this is difficult on Bonaire. Not much competition, and no governmental rules, everybody can start such a company, and the guards don't need to have any certificates. I changed from one securitycompany to another, after a lot of mishappenings. It appeared that they didn't put any attention to the 24hours-connection-check at all. (Every alarmsystem calls the alarm-station every 24 hrs, to check if the line is OK, and if the check didn't come through, the securitycompany should react to see what is wrong.) My system was disconnected by myself from the phone-line, so there wasn't a 24hrs check possible anymore, and there was no reaction at all from the alarmcompany, for weeks. Same with a low-battery-sign, they should monitor it, but they didn't. And they missed some (false-) alarm-calls too. So I changed to a competetor, but I have not enough experience up to now. I think they are doing better, but we'll see. The reaction-times on an alarmcall are too long at least. But I am working on that with the new alarmcompany.

3. So many remarks on the relativity of the subject. Yes, that is true, Bonaire is still very safe, but I can tell you, when your neighbour is a victim it is very, very realistic, and very near to you. At least we have been dreaming of guys with bags on their heads pointing with guns. Wasn't fun, for sure!

4. I don't think it would be wise to go to a criminal with a gun with your baseballbat. I think the bullet is way faster then the bat. And not only that, I remember from long ago, when I played baseball, it was terrible difficult to hit that ball..... But I cannot give an answer if it would be legal to do yes or no. Antillean rules, I don't know at all about that, and Dutch rules? Yes there is some jurisprudence about that. I think, in common words, if you can make believe that the thief wanted to hurt you, your possibilities to not get in trouble when hitting him back are really good, but be aware, you mustn't kill him, that would make it a lot worse.

5. My main concern is again (as was in several situations like this before) f.e. the brutal attack at Esperanza (of Garden Cafe) some time ago, the non-reaction of the police. It is symptomatical. If they would show an active taking care of the situation, and really were doing something, this absolutely would help to bring the low crime-rate here further down.
Just one other example, I never mentioned before. Thiefs stole the 'Playstation" of a good friend of mine with all the software. He absolutely knew for sure who had done it. (Children). When he said this on the police-station the reaction was: "why don't you go there, and ask your play-station back?" And nothing happened. Perhaps these children, now some years older committed the crime of last Friday.........

If I have more information on the main subject I will post it.


Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #302) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 2:49 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Shawn makes a good point in the second half of his post. It looks like family of Police and Politicians (children?) are involved in many cases, but I think it is dangerous and not wise to post more than this. But I know more.....

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie,
When I was a kid I was abused by my stepfather. The times when I actually did call the cops they would show up, not write anything down, and instead call his mother. She was the mayor of the city, and instead of getting bad PR on her they wouldn't do anything about it. I have several friends who are cops here in the states and I know about the dirty business that goes on and how they look out for one another. There are also a lot of great cops out there too, but it always sits in the back of my mind, especially in cases like this when no one even bothered to come. I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything because I try to cast as little judgement on to others as I can, and I have never actually been to the island or dealt with their police. I'm just saying it sounds kinda fishy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #433) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I would only comment that this particular victim was NOT in the wrong place at the wrong time, she was the victim of a violent armed assault while in her own residence minding her own business of an evening.

She wasn't out trying to hassle the local bad guys in THEIR houses and got in the middle of a fight with them. THAT would be being in the wrong place and there's never a good time to be in the wrong place.

A 'popular' bumper sticker in the States reads "When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them." Just my own biased opinion, but it's a shame Bonaire has outlawed a means for the good folks to protect themselves from the tiny minority of bad ones who must not be following the law regarding gun ownership. I'd say "Shame on those criminals" except I just looked up the definition of "criminal" in the dictionary and it would seem they actually DON'T follow the laws in the first place.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #37) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, you write great English! Much better than my Dutch, ya?

Shawn youíre right, violent crime here (on Island and this forum) does get blown way out of proportion--for a reason. Itís almost unheard of! Moreover, itís almost unheard of that the local police or government does much unless people make a stink. And, if itís a tourist? Ha, kidding, right?

ďDonít worry Jan, that stupid tourist will be gone in a couple days, then we donít need to deal with it no more,Ē one lazy bureaucrat said to the other.

Following your line of thought, you would think the local Police would actually know everybody, right? Naw, why institute a community policing program when you can stay out of the heat and collect that government check for being totally unaccountable. Why would this change? The local voters arenít complaining. (And of course, the tourist donít vote).

This issue of a small community is far smaller that you might expect though. From the latest available stats, (DEZA and CBC) the permanent resident population of Bonaire is < 11,000 people, residing in < 4000 households.

So, letís you and I assume the worst. Ok? 5% of the population are ďbad guysĒ. Dude, thatís only 550 bad guys! Heck, give me two fire-squads of Army guys or one three-man SEAL Det and that problem is resolved.

Oops, no political will to alienate the families of criminals, you say? I say different. I say most of the bad actors on Bonaire are from off the island, I say the good natured moms and dads give up their criminal children. I say give that new Police Chief one or two operators with investigative experience and training and he will see the light and stop acting like some perfunctory Dutch bureaucrat, and start being a balls-to-the-wall cop. Hell, every public official wants to be a hero, ya?

Ok mods, time to move this thread to "Bonaire 2007". At least Iím getting way off base here. There are so many issues to discuss before the transition by both on-island and off-island entities.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #38) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Oh, Randy, no...

NA hasn't outlawed any means of law-abiding citizens/visitors protecting themselves. Theyíve outlawed ALL means.

Even holding a thief until the police come (48 hours later) and you'll be charged with kidknapping.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #111) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The wrong place at the wrong time cliche refers to wherever you are. That could be at home or at a store or in your car. If I'm sitting at home and a bomb just happens to drop on my house, I would be be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I was at my buddy's house I'd be in the right place at the wrong time. My house would still be gone, but I would be fine. Being at my house 2 hours before would be the wrong place at the right time, considering it's about to be blown up in 2 hours. Homes are less safe in my opinion. If I'm a burglar that's where I'm looking first, not the streets. She just happened to be at the place they picked. It's unfortunate, but well it happens. You just hope it doesn't happen to you.

I'm actually on the opposite end of the spectrum with you and the guns issue. I think that's how more guns get on the street. You're not going to stop burglars by having guns in your house, you're just putting more on the street after they rob you and take them. This is probably why bonaire has less homicides than other places such as the U.S. But hey that's a whole nother debate right there ;) and we are each entitled to our own opinion lol.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #112) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Also we must not ignore tourists who do illegal things. It's amazing while on vacation to just see random people grab things off places and you wonder if it's really theirs. Do they even realize it's not theirs? Sometimes I think people might take things not even paying attention, I know some really airheaded people like this. I had a teacher the other day ask everyone if they left their purse then open it up only to say, oh it's mine. Then there's people like my mom's ex husband who's always looking to steal something. Everywhere he'd go he'd always be on the lookout for something to take out of someone's car or purse or whatever he could get his hands on. Trying to track down someone who's there one day and gone back home the next is gonna be hard.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pete Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #46) on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 9:28 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hey folks,

I have emailed the chief of police and the politicos by copying and pasting those addresses which were so kindly provided up thread in order to to put in my two cents about the disgraceful performance of the police in yet another case.

I received a non delivery notice on the one to Domacasse. His email address is not in the phone book as is the chief's. Can anyone provide a more recent address for him? I know I could try his office, but I don't know Dutch and have trouble understanding Papiamentu unless spoken 'poko poko.' which some functionaries are not wont to do.

Thanks, Pete

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Smits (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #300) on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 5:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Herbert Domacasse: hdomacasse@yahoo.com

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pete Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 9:24 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bob,

Masha danki.

Pete

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Smits (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #302) on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 10:06 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Pete,

Denada.

I've send mr. Domacasse an e-mail too.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Taylor (BonaireTalker - Post #18) on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 7:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I arrived on Bonaire last Tuesday and as luck would it I am staying at a very nice home in Hato. It is five doors down from the location of the break-in. The local residents that are afraid and upset. At this end of town the street lights are about 1/4 mile apart and not very bright - a 60 watt blub would give as much light. You can also walk along the ocean frontage and stay out of sight in the darkness. There have been other robberies but more of a opportunist smash and grab variety.

My point is that this problem is serious and the residents are also concerned.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #303) on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 8:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

And Jim, so what?

We are about one-and-a-half week away from the robbery.
Is anyone concerned (else then the locals in Hato) ?
Did BonaireReporter make a notice about it?
Did you hear anything on the radio?
Did the local newspapers make any tiding?
Did anybody hear anything about it?
Did the police apologize against the concerned woman? (and will it be better next time?)
Did Police give any explanation about what they are doing?
Does any politician show any activity?

Most answers will start with an "n" in stead of a "Y".

What can we do, more then locking our doors all day long, put lots of lights around our houses, spend again more money on alarm-systems?

Who knows what to do?

This is Bonaire, and nothing will happen...

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pete Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #48) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:08 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

To underscore Harrie's point, I sent the following open email message (in Papiamentu and English but not in Dutch) to the politicos indicated). I also sent copies to the Extra and the Reporter, in case they might want to publish it along with any others they might have received in order to increase the pressure on the politicians to work to achieve a functioning law enforcement presence on Bonaire.

"An open letter to Messrs Domacasse, Booi and Elhage:


Esteemed gentlemen,

I have lived on Bonaire for two and a half years and,
as with many others, I am concerned about crime here
and how our police force responds to it.

Sadly, with another violent crime taking place, this
time in Hato, we find our police force still seeming
to not want to take care of the victims of such
crimes.

We have a new police chief, but apparently the same
ípolice culture.í We have public servants who do not
want to serve the public.

Something must be done about these officers who were
so rude, indifferent and unkind to the victim of this
recent attack.

I understand that none of you can directly solve this
problem. However you must use your political power to
bring pressure on the police chief to force him change
the attitude of his police officers. You must also
work to involve the Minister of Justice and
responsible parties in Holland so that they too will
help to ensure that our police will do what they are
paid to do--íprotect and serve.í

Thank you."

A different message was sent to the new chief, again in both Papiamentu and English. Not surprisingly, not even an auto reply has been received from any of these parties in return. And as Harrie notes there are no public signs that anything is being done to address the underlying problem of police indifference to criminal actions.

I don't see the Extra regularly so do not know if they have been carrying follow up stories on the Hato attack. Clearly, the Reporter has done nothing. Perhaps they think the victim was not 'credible' in reporting the crime--the reason they used for not reporting on the alleged car jacking in January.

Edmund Burke said that 'all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.' That's as true here on Bonaire, one of the best places to live on this planet, as it it is for the US and the rest of this generally unhappy world.

Pete Brown

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Taylor (BonaireTalker - Post #19) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:15 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

One thing the residents are doing is buying aerisol horns (the kind you start races with). If anyone sees anything or is threatened they will blow the horn whitch is VERY LOUD. The local stores were out of stock but a new shipment came in.

Sometimes the simple solutions are the best.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #418) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am not on the island at the moment, but read the local news paper... Extra had at least 2 articles about the robbery and there was one long letter from the police saying the response by the police was absolutely unaceptable (I forgot the rest, I think it was on Tuesday) ...
In the speech for the departure of Daantje , the new one (a Dutch man who had been in Aruba for some years) also mentioned it and also mentioned that changes have to come fast to restore the confidence of the population into the police of Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #304) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:02 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Brigitte,

Must have missed the second article in the Extra.
Did the article say something about the results of the investigation?


There was an interview with some police-person, probably the new chief, on the radio this afternoon, in papiamentu, so I could not understand everything. As far as I understood there was no remark about the Hato-robbery, but a lot of discussion about the obligation to wear helmets for bikers, and at least some remark about the intention to make more surveillances at the more remote diving-sites. And lots of plans to have more education for the officers. And two more surveillance-cars on the island.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Captain Don (BonaireTalker - Post #99) on Sunday, April 9, 2006 - 2:20 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

HARRIE COX

(bonaire alumni's refer to thread local items.)

I have been following you on some of your crime issues. You are coming on very strong and seemingly a very determined fellow. I like that.

At one time you had mentioned that your English is "not so good." I wonder your nationality. Frankly, I think you are doing fine

It would please me if we could talk.
Captain don/
<callingintheclan@yahoo.com>.

 


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