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Dining: Credit cards
Bonaire Talk: Dining: Archives: Archives 2007: Archives - 2007-01-01 to 2007-03-31: Credit cards
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By monica eccher (BonaireTalker - Post #27) on Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 4:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Do most resturants/grociery stores take credit cards??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2535) on Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 5:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Most places take Visa and Mastercard. Amex is not widely accepted. Warehouse Grocery does not take cards for small purchases.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By monica eccher (BonaireTalker - Post #28) on Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 5:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you Ann. Very helpful.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #988) on Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 6:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We use our credit cards practically everywhere.
I think a small purchase at Warehouse is under 100 (can't remember if that was guilders or dollars)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Myers (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #347) on Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 9:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Too funny! I just asked my wife/banker and she was sure about the 100 part, but not about the currency. To be safe, buy >USD$100. Easily done at warehouse.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dr. Director (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #296) on Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 10:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

While we use our credit card at restaurants on Bonaire to pay for our meals, we always leave our tip in cash. Think this is better for our waiter/waitress.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ruth van Tilburg (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #667) on Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 9:08 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

That is exactly right re: tip in cash (if you can). CC's leave a paper trail, and tips on cc's have all wage taxes, etc, deducted from the employee.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cyn (GH) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #353) on Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 10:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

There are some restaurants that only take cash. Bongo's, Antriol Catering Company, I can't think of any others right now (it's early and I need my coffee).

We try to pay cash at restaurants when we can. Credit cards are death to the small establishments (some even have signs as you walk in to that effect). I believe the establishments not only have to pay the ding fees of the cc, they also have to pay another percentage to the Bonaire government...and it's steep.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dr. Director (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #297) on Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 1:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ruth - Can you provide any insight on Cyn's statement on a percentage to the Bonaire government. If true, will change and pay cash at all Bonaire restaurants.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ruth van Tilburg (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #668) on Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 6:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Every business that takes a credit card, has about 4-5% taken from that amount charged, as a fee from the CC company, yet the total amount of the bill still incurs the sales tax of 5%, which the owner must pay. Say you charge $100. The owner must pay $5 in sales tax (5%), but still has 4-5% deducted from the $100 by the CC/bank. Amex has a reputation for taking a long time to transfer payments to the businesses, and usually takes the highest percentage, hence the reason it's not widely accepted. Visa and MasterCard re-imburse the owner faster, for slightly less. Anyway, it all adds up. Much like the 6% royalty I must pay off the top, to have my company's name. Yes-ouch.

I believe the law comes down to this: Any tips left on credit cards must be reported as additional income to the employees, and is a ton of paperwork for the employer, as he/she has to report the amount each employee receives, then deduct wage taxes (there are all sorts of income taxes employees & employers must pay-from straight income tax, pension fund, workman's compensation... to the amount the national health care takes, etc.--taxes might have different names, but they're always there). When we had Mango's, cash tips were handled directly by the employees--the bartender/waiters split up the night's tips among themselves, and the kitchen staff (the unseen). What might look like a $10 tip left on a cc, can end up really being only $2-3 to your actual server, after it's divided among all staff, and taxed. Even if employers cash out cc tips each night, and give that cash to the employees, the owner must still report who received what, otherwise the employer will be responsible for all of its income taxes. Amazingly exhausting, and not in keeping with the relaxed "life in paradise" image, but business is business.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cyn (GH) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #358) on Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 6:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ruth, no wonder you have migraines! You gave me a headache just reading about it!

So, if you are a small establishment (or even large one)...a $100.00 bill, between the cc company and the taxes, the owner only receives $90.00...and for the smaller operations who don't have expensive menus, it adds up quickly considering all of the other taxes/payroll, expenses of the employer.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wally and Eva (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1005) on Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 8:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I will switch to cash from hence forth. I usually hit the bank on arrival and convert my US$ and Traveler's checks to local so I will just do it twice.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #240) on Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 8:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The tips can be a real source of arguments with the employees, too. I process the tips pretty simply: tips go in the pool, and, at the end of the month, I divide the pool according to total hours worked (with the exception that neither me or my wife take a share of tips). I take all the taxes out before distribution. Any employee that pockets a tip from a table, bar, or room is fired. Every employee I have ever had has come to me and asked if they can't receive the tips as cash, under the table.

As for paperwork, I account for every tip received, and could show in an audit the exact bill to which every tip is attached.

One thing that wasn't really clear from Ruth's post is that it really doesn't matter much whether the tip is cash or credit: the employer is responsible for making sure that the taxes are paid, and if cash tips are taken in without taxes being paid, the owner has to cough up the money. I know of one case where the government decided that the taxes owed on back tips were approximately 300,000 guilders, because they decided that every hotel guest was tipping the maids 10% on the rooms. When they make assessments like that, the argument that cash is harder to track actually works against the business owner.

You will find that a number of business charge a surcharge to credit card holders, even though they have signed an agreement with the credit card company that they will not.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2538) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 8:10 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Having waitressed for years and now doing catering in the US for specialty events I can say phooey to that system Kevin. I know it's the norm but if I am a customer and I have a great server and I tip them 25% (which I often do for great service at night) I hate to know it's pooled for the month. As a server and if I earn a stellar whopping tip because I am a kick %$$ server I hate to know I will not see a portion of that well earned tip that night. I like Ruth's plan at Mangos, the tips of the night are split amongst ALL staff. It encourages team work and diligence. It inspires all to work together and at the end all are rewarded.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2539) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 8:11 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Having waitressed for years I can say phooey to that system Kevin. I know it's the norm on Bonaire but if I am a customer and I have a great server and I tip them 25% (which I often do for great service at night) I hate to know it's pooled for the month. As a server and if I earn a stellar whopping tip because I am a kick %$$ server I hate to know I will not see a portion of that well earned tip that night. I like Ruth's plan at Mangos, the tips of the night are split amongst ALL staff. It encourages team work and diligence. It inspires all to work together and at the end all are rewarded. And again as a customer I want that team who served me well to earn the tip I gladly offer. It is my way of saying thanks to all that served me that evening.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #241) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 8:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm not sure what the difference is: I split tips among all the staff, just like Ruth did at Mangos. The only difference is that I do the split once a month instead of every night. I don't know how Ruth managed the split, but I do it by hours: if one staff member works 48 hours a week and one works 24, the 48 hour worker gets twice as big a share.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan - www.bonairecaribbean.com (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2540) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 8:25 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kevin, I understand your method. It is the norm in Bonaire. Don't you see it from my perspective? If I get a killer tip one night, it's not shared that night amongst all staff. We earned a great night of tips because we ROCK. Instead, it goes into a monthly pool. I have earned sometimes 50.00 and 100.00 tips on occassions over the years. Ruth's way my team that night ALL earn share in that generous reward for GOOD service. Your way, I don't see it..it's sent into the montly pool and I get a portion of that month's tips. Its all about incentive. Last night I did a private party. We worked 4 hours on site and 2 hours for the actual party. I earned 16.50 USD an hour for the catering/banquet work and our team rocked..I mean were incredible. Our reward was 50.00 US tip. Imagine if I took that tip (550.00 for my team) and pooled it with the other month's tips?? It doesn't feel good. Our team was so happy last night. We made the party a success, we enjoyed our guests and we all walked home with a 50.00 crisp USD.

Peace

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Diane Gutman (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 10:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I can say for sure that the Warehouse will only let you use your credit card for purchases over $100 in US.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #242) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 12:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I see you point, Ann. I just wish that I could be sure that my staff would pay the taxes and keep their boss out of jail.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue from NJ (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #461) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 4:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Having worked my way through college as a waitress, I don't think I would want work at a place with pooled tips unless everybody helped each other out all the time. (the restaurant I worked at was very competitive - people argued who got the nice tables by the windows). When I leave a big tip (always in cash), I'm assuming my server gets it, as I'm complementing them on their service.

I used to record my tip income on my timecard so they would take out the taxes. Drove my boss up a wall, but I was an accounting major & had no interest getting an IRS audit. As a boss, you could estimate the amount of tip income based on sales and have them prove you wrong if they don't like it - you will probably underestimate anyways.

just my $.02

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jan Klos - ( Hamlet Bonaire #10) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #445) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 6:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Where is the incentive for the wait staff to give great service if they all know that they will get a fair share of the pool? Why should one person who goes above and beyond get the same as one who sits on their ___!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #243) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 6:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Where is the incentive for the busboy to get your table squeaky clean and the kitchen assistant to cut your vegetables perfectly and the maid to keep the floor polished and the front desk clerk to be friendly if the waiter pockets the entire tip?

Bonaire may be a bit over-the-top by making the employer liable for tax evasion by his employees, but tip-pooling is common world wide. Without it, you can't keep the unseen employees motivated. Believe me, peer pressure works: if the rest of the staff takes home less money because the waitress is doing a crummy job, she hears about it.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ruth van Tilburg (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #669) on Friday, December 8, 2006 - 8:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

A lot of valid points here--overall, what Kevin does at his place is how the tax office wants it done. There was an old 'saying' about what goes on between the table and the pocket was overlooked, but restaurants/cash oriented businesses have been under the spotlight of audits lately (it's already 4 yrs since we had Mango's, where I let the staff handle their own tips; if I were doing it today, I'd have to go with Kevin's method). Not fun. And it's always the employer's burden of proof, where you're guilty until you can prove you're innocent.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gail Thomas (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1667) on Saturday, December 9, 2006 - 9:50 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wow, this has certainly been an education for me. I've never been close to the food service industry on the working side. We've always rewarded great service and good attitude/personality (ie our waiter/waitress) with a great tip, and just assumed he or she got that amount and knew we really appreciated their effort.

This is a real eye opener. I appreciate Ruth and Kevin telling it like it is for the local business owner and will make an effort to use cash here on in when in Bonaire. I never really gave much thought to the unseen workers, but can now appreciate that if their not putting forth the same effort, the waitstaff won't look as good either. Thank you all.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jan Klos - ( Hamlet Bonaire #10) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #447) on Saturday, December 9, 2006 - 1:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kevin, Point taken. Forgot about the back of the house...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wally and Eva (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1010) on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 3:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

When I was a bartender in college the house practice was waitress' cut 15% of their tips and barkeeps cut 25% out of our jars for the bus and back staff.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Brokamp (BonaireTalker - Post #36) on Saturday, January 6, 2007 - 10:34 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Time to weigh in. I own a restaurant is a small town in Virginia.

Credit cost consumers billions of guilders and dollars of invisible money!
I wish my customers would understand some of this concept not just BT'rs
It cost my small town restaurant $11,000.00 last year in credit card fees. One thousand of that was to supplement tips left on credit card charges. If you write in a 10.00 my server gets ten bucks but I only get reimbursed about $9.68. If your magnetic strip isn't working I get charged even more. I also get charged at higher rates for corporate cards etc. Credit card fees have risen only about 1/2% for me over the last 12 years yet credit card use has more then doubled in the last 5 years since debit card use has skyrocketed.
That 12K came out of the pockets of all my customers.

I have been in the service industry my entire life and have never shared tips nor would I have ever taken a job in an establishment that pooled tips.
My servers keep 85% of their tips, they tip out the bartender and bus help the other 15%. The power of the incentive for the bartender and busboy to do a good job for the server is given to the server. If they don't do a good job the server can stiff them.

Tipping the BOH is done when the server has a good night and buys the cook a beer.
My back of the house gets paid at an average rate of about 4-5 times what a server gets. $2.13-2.75 an hour vs. 8.00-15.00. During the slower months the servers suffer while the BOH maintains. When we are busy the servers kick but while the BOH loses a little ground. Great servers make better tips because they get the better shifts and turn happier tables. Your placement, back or front of house, has everything to do with your interests and talents. I think pooling tips serves the interest of the owners most.

Taxes - we should all play by the same rules.
If an hourly or salaried wage earner has to pay taxes on all his or her income why shouldn't a server. It is a matter of ethics. Most of what I am reading here supports tax evasion - it's illegal folks - not a matter of increased paperwork.
Unfortunately I believe the days of cash are gone for good so we had better get used to the idea. I took a pile of traveler's checks to Bonaire and came back with a bunch of them. I was very surprised that despite Michael's best efforts that many vendors were willing to take credit cards over traveler's checks. I will pay also my restaurant bill in the same manner as I leave a tip since I will not knowingly make it easy for someone to break the law.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #286) on Saturday, January 6, 2007 - 11:30 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

One big difference between here and the states is that we don't credit the server's tips against the salaries. Back workers and servers don't earn wildly different amounts, certainly not four or five to one.

One thing to point out is that big tips are not the norm here. Many Europeans don't tip at all, and those that do tip at 5% or 10%. The 15% and 20% tips that Americans leave are considered outrageous. The staff always appreciates them, though ...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Brokamp (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Sunday, January 7, 2007 - 10:53 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Reading between the lines in the previous post I can discern that in Bonaire the FOH does earn at a different rate then BOH however there is no indication of the differential. I am left to guess.
Pooling is not at all common in the USA. When I leave a tip I expect it to go to the server, not a front desk clerk or janitor. An earlier posting suggests that the practice of pooling tips is common world wide. Perhaps there is a relationship between the tip pooling practice and the chintzy tips (by US standards) left by Europeans and other Nationalities. For when one is in Rome . . .
When I tip a server I consider it a gift to that server only. I resent the thought of the proprietor scooping it up using it to motivate an assistant cook. I leave a much larger sum of money when I pay my bill and what the proprietor does with that money is solely between him, his government and his conscience.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #290) on Sunday, January 7, 2007 - 11:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The spread is sometimes reversed from the US. The server needs to have better language skills than a kitchen assistant, so the server is frequently paid higher than kitchen staff. When I had dinner service, my servers earned about 1 guilder an hour more than the back.

I hope you do understand that the primary motivation of the business owner is to avoid fines and jail. I would rather stay out of the tips completely, but when my alternative is letting the government dictate an outrageous fine based on suspected tax evasion by my employees, I control the tip distribution.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Irmgard (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 11:31 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

one small, remote and very tourism orientated country in Europe has totally and officially given up taxing tips - for the simple reason that cash tips are impossible to trace in tax audits (and those receiving CC tips would be at a ... disadvantage). Aside from that it is common knowledge within the tourism industry in that country that staff generate a large part of their income from tips which is taken into consideration by the employers (a vicious circle of course)... my personal opinion is that whoever works as hard as those in tourism related jobs deserves that little tax benefit...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Blue Ridge (BonaireTalker - Post #80) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 12:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Irmgard, thanks for not identifying the country since many good service workers might emigrate.
You are correct - cash tips are impossible to trace. I am aghast that a taxing body would apply logic and fairness to a tax code! Of course I am only joking.
Unfortunately here in the US unequal taxing enforcement is accepted. When I began in this business tips were rarely reported. Our government has reaped huge rewards with minimal, sloppy and unequal enforcement. With the recent massive increase in debit card usage (over 40% at my establishment in two years) it just keeps getting better.
I like the idea of a tax credit since it might promote honesty. My experience is only about 5% of tipped employees are honestly reporting tips. Frequently these are the more experienced workers who have learned the hidden benefits of honest reporting. They pay a few extra tax dollars and can feel good about themselves ethically. They also find it easier to get car or home loans and if they find themselves in a circumstance collecting unemployment of Workers' compensation they collect at higher rates.
Another big business concern that has been cashing in on tips is the credit card companies. The discounts they charge the vendor apply to tips too. All these fees are passed on as cost increases so we are all paying for these credit cards.
If you must use a credit card please leave the tip as cash.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Irmgard (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 12:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

...forgot to mention that I ALWAYS leave cash tips when I use a CC - for all the reasons stated in this thread, but mostly because I want to reward the person who has just served my barracuda dinner with a smile and noticed in time that my drink was evaporating quickly...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #317) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Taxes are as bad as tips: no one in the government cares that I received the payment as a credit card, so they still collect $5.00 per $100.00, even though I only collect $95.50. Basically, every slice out of the bill gets paid in full except the business's share.

To add insult to injury, the government charges 5% tax on the commission, and the bank makes me pay the tax.

For example, a Visa charge for $100.00:

8 Jan 2007 169.12 VISA/MC EDC BTC# x USD 100,00 COMM. 4,75 NAOB TAX 0,24

And an AMEX charge for $100.00:

8 Jan 2007 170.88 AMEX USD REF# x

You can see that I actually prefer AMEX, for the simple reason that I get more money. The effective commission for VISA is 4.99%, and for AMEX is only 4% (based on an exchange rate of 1.78 guilders/dollar).

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Wayne Williams (The Great Escape) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #318) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Oh, Irmgard ... I hope you aren't encouraging servers to pocket tips on Bonaire. That could wind up with the restaurant owner being fined and jailed, which I am sure isn't something you really intend to have happen.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2428) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Depending on the $ volume merchants on Bonaire can negotiate a lower bank fee...all you need to do is send a letter requesting a reduction...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Irmgard (BonaireTalker - Post #16) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kevin, NOOOOO! I have never had a meal or experience or whatever that made me wish for the proprietor to end up behind bars :-) certainly not on Bonaire!!!!

In my country (cash) tips are considered to be part of the salary of, say, a waiter at a restaurant (the technical term is something like "salary from a third party" - as opposed to salary from your employer). With cc tips we entered a grey area considering how cc payments work. Creative tax investigators began to impose income tax (to the waiter, not the proprietor!) on cc tips and also tried to find ways to impose income tax on cash tips. This made our tourism industry cry out very loud which induced our government to totally exempt tips from taxation.

Now I DO realize that in Bonaire the legal situation is TOTALLY different and I certainly do understand your reasoning.

 


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