BonaireTalk Discussion Group
Diving Bonaire: Bonaire diving disappointment
Bonaire Talk: Diving Bonaire: Archives: Archives 1999-2005: Archives - 2002-11-26 to 2003-04-30: Bonaire diving disappointment
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Rose (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 4:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just got back from our first trip to Bonaire.

We loved the island, and although a few of the people lived up to the reputation established in this newsgroup, most of them were charming, relaxed and very helpful.

We enjoyed our time snorkelling, and had some wonderful evenings watching the sunset in the warm air.

It's somewhere I would have no hesitation returning to, except for ...

.. having dived in the Far East and the Middle East many times, this was my first trip diving to the Caribbean. And I can honestly say that I witnessed the most appalling diving standards I hope that I ever have the misfortune to see !

Let's overlook for the moment that I didn't see a single buddy check the whole time I was there, that the orientation dive (buoyancy check etc) required by the authorities was to my surprise conducted by me alone in the water, and that diving alone seems to be generally accepted.

Let's move onto some of the real problems.

If you're taking pictures when diving on Bonaire, it really doesn't matter how much damage you do. If you need to get really close up, then wedge your fins into the coral really tightly, and grab hold of something firm like some star coral, or just pull that gorgonian out of the way!

And I can't believe how it is commonplace for divers to drag their fins through everything as they enter or return from a dive. I'm not talking about the odd occasion. I'm talking about a situation where my partner and I watched several groups of divers returning. Almost all of them seemed unaware of their knees, arms and fins, and seemed almost comforted by the firm "clunk" of some coral under their fins as they swam in. This was not the exception, this was the rule.

Apart from the damage to the animals involved, how long can Bonaire suffer this treatment? Is there no way that any kind of standards can be imposed on or accepted by the diving community? Even if the people of Bonaire are comfortable with this treatment as a part of their economy (which must, of course, expect some wear and tear, but surely also relies on nature's regenerative abilities), can they really accept this level of damage and the cruelty to the animals around their beautiful island?

If this is largely due to ignorance, then somebody somehow has to do some educating very quickly.

I think that if there's one thing that will stop me returning, it's reluctance to experience this heartbreaking cruelty and damage.

I think I'll stick with non-American diving in future, such as the centre in the Far East I used a couple of years ago where you were banned from diving for 24 hours if you touched coral - and I saw this rule being enforced!

In Bonaire it seems that the needs of the diver/photographer are paramount, and the lives of the animals are very much an afterthought. If you need that shot, then it doesn't matter what you damage or kill to get it.

No thanks!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cindylou (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 5:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Larry

As someone who has traveled to Bonaire 7 times (two weeks per visit) in the past 10 years, I find your report rather surprising. Our experience has been, when we do actually see other divers in the water which is pretty infrequent, it is the exception where folks aren't respecting the marine park and the creatures within. As for the people of Bonaire accepting the kind of treatment you discuss, I am having difficulty believing this is the case. There are people like Bruce Bowker who offer free buoyancy clinics to help people understand how to 'lighten up' with their weight and stay off the bottom. Jake has a sign by the reefcam highlighting the importance of respecting the reef. I can't talk to the checkout dive situation - we use the same dive shop and they know us from previous checkout (and diving on their boat).

I only hope this is but an unfortunate experience and if nothing else, serves to heighten peoples' awareness of the important role we all play in preserving Bonaire's Marine Park.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #38) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 6:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Certain cultures (nationalities, races) can be more or less sensitive to the world around them. Welcome to the new way of thinking about the planet. Screw saving it, just enjoy it while you can.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #39) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 6:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

P.S.

I dont tip divemasters for the entire trip if I see anyone do something to the reef. Ive never tipped a DM.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peggy Wages (BonaireTalker - Post #37) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 8:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What does reef damage have to do with not tipping a divemaster? Believe me, I know from firsthand experience - as a dive professional you talk, you teach, you preach, and you do the best you can, but you cannot constantly police a group of adults who have minds of their own.

Most divemasters work very hard and make very little money. Withholding a tip because they can't be god in the water is unfair. Of course, if the divemaster was the one doing the damage, then that would be a different story. But some people just don't care about anyone except themselves and there is nothing that anyone can say to change their minds.

It would be a good practice for all divers to watch out for each other, giving reminders if bad behavior is noticed. Some people honestly make mistakes and don't know they have done so.

Peggy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (BonaireTalker - Post #81) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 10:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Larry~

Just because one doesn't bother with a buddy check doesn't make him/her a bad diver. I have dived for sometime now and actually very seldom see anyone do a buddycheck before or after submerging. Exception to that would be technical divers, they do checks unconditionially everytime, before starting the dive and also a bubble check at 10-15 ft level. I usually watch the divers to see how they rig their gear, that usually tells me if they got there act together...

If you're talking shore diving I wouldn't know how you couldn't walk on the coral or animals getting out of the water. Some people CAN'T stand up after a dive if they are leaving the water [especially wearing doubles], it has happen to me more than once, so I come out on my hands and knees, it beats dragging the tank and bcd across the bottom, at least in my opinion.

There are no underwater police on Bonaire that I know of so some people breaks the rules and others "JUST AREN'T VERY GOOD DIVERS" and they do the best they can until they become better. Don't judge all divers by what you saw in that timeframe. I have seen divemasters that do some dumb things once in awhile too. They're human too and because they are human they make mistakes just like everyone else. People tend to leave their good manners at home at least sometime during their vacation time and do stupid things. Some divers don't realize that coral is life and others don't care... As Bonaire is known as the "diving freedom" that includes all aspects of the sport. Good and bad... Sorry to say things probably won't change for the better any time soon. As divers and the sport becomes younger and more crowded I feel the aqua enviroment will suffer more unless we educate our new divers better about our oceans and seas.

Safe Diving,
jimini

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (BonaireTalker - Post #82) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 10:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Larry me again,

You stated "non American diving"? Are we talking Bonaire on this? USA hasn't bought or invaded Bonaire yet... :>)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #272) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:40 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Larry

You get bad divers everywhere and of all nationalities. Bonaire tries more than most places to encourage good diving practices and this should have been covered in your marine park briefing.

From my experience the check-out is usually unsupervised and is there to allow you to get correctly weighted to improve buoyancy.

I agree that the worst culprits are often photographers and I have personally lifted people off the coral. Maybe Bonaire should have a Marine Park Camera Tag that could be withdrawn for people abusing the reef or sea life.

I am also from the UK and have also dived in many other locations and with lots of different nationalities – It’s not a Bonaire thing it’s a poor diving thing, diving freedom means you are not supervised. My belief is that we should encourage better standards to protect the reef.

Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob neer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #983) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:46 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

no pics???

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Carrier (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #23) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:30 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I must admit, I've been appalled at the mistreatment of the reefs. I have witness divers standing on coral giving the OK sign to the dive master. Yet the divemaster does nothing. When I complained to the dive shop manager, the attitude was, The diver is part of a large group that comes every year. (Read between the lines -- money talks)

Last time we were in downtown Bonaire, and happened to catch the person in charge of the reefs. Wish I could remember his name or title. He was very concerned about what we had to say, and I know he talked to the dive shop manager.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6375) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:45 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

bill, you bring up a good point. if you see someone abusing the reef, report them to the dive shop (unless they turn their ear the other way) you have helped. doing nothing won't help the problem.

i really think that education is the key. i know that when we got certified originally, staying off the bottom was emphasized, but that was only to prevent sediment kick up (locally, most places have a sandy bottom, but you never know what is under the sand!) locally, i have been amazed when i see "bulls" swimming as fast as they can through the kelp touching everything in sight. i have to say that it was never mentioned in our classes about protecting and staying off of the substrates...just common sense to me i guess...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Rose (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #8) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 11:19 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for all the responses.

I do agree that a lot of people share my concerns, and that many divers on Bonaire and elsewhere are super careful (as I hope I am) and are very aware of their responsibilities to our environment. However, on my recent trip a random census of the divers would make this concerned group less than the majority by a long way.

I do agree that education is the key, but how and when does this happen if you're not still at school? The only person in any kind of "authority" who said to me "don't touch the coral" was the Woodwind lady, who gave us a brief but succinct talk before we got in the water for some snorkelling (it's harder to touch the bottom when you're snorkelling in 5m of water :-) ). Why isn't the "don't touch anything" aspect publicised more?

And, even though people are mostly on vacation, shouldn't there be some kind of "policing", ideally by DMs or equivalent? It would not be an easy job for them, but a friendly word (more carrot than stick, at least to begin with) might just make a few divers adapt their behaviour.

However, this wouldn't cover the unsupervised groups and individuals. The only consolation there is that when all the creatures have gone, they probably won't come along (with or without their cameras) any longer ...

P.S. non-"American" as in "the Americas" (North, Central and South), not just the USA :-)

P.P.S. Sorry Bob, no pics - I enjoy the diving too much and you can get great photographs in books :-) :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #273) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bob

How about

1

2

From my last holiday not Bonaire, but I will be in BON in September

Regards

Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cecil Berry (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2480) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Larry while appalled as you are about the misuse of the reef, it does not seem quite fair to blame the island or the DM's for the shortcomings of hopefully a minority of divers. The island does an excellent job of conserving the reefs and has been doing this longer than any other island. The DM's are stuck in the middle, they love the reefs and hate to see them damaged but also have to make a living and do not want to be the bad guys to the tourists.

Restating the problem does not necessarily help. Seems like the best solution is to get the information to the divers. Signs (which there are some I'm sure) on the dive boats and docks and maybe a handout with the Marine Park pass are a couple of possibilities.

When I'm there in June I will slap around any abusive divers I see, including myself if I'm not careful.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Botsford (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #231) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 1:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

a bit off the subject but...
Cecil, I have been reading and enjoying both your posts and your pictures for several years. Let me tell you, I for one, can not wait until June and you actually get to Bonaire...worse than that wait, however, will be the one for your trip report...I know it will be one heck of a tale, well told and avec a ton of fine pictures.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Rose (BonaireTalker - Post #12) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 1:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Cecil - I was careful not to blame either and don't! It's down to the individual careless and thoughtless divers. If they've all got PADI OW at least, it's there in the manual - Module 1!

Brian - great pictures of the Manta ! I might rethink the bit about books :-) :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1408) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 2:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Larry,

Maybe the subject should also be in the last module and on the C-card!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cecil Berry (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2481) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Dean, I've already lined up two 128 meg cards, plus the 200 megs I own. Should be able to get a few pictures. I'm down to 35 days and can't stand the wait.

Larry, I re-read your original post and you're right, you did not knock the island. Sorry about the misconception. Maybe conversations like this one will also raise some awareness.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linnea Wijkhof-Wimberly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #479) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Larry, I have dove the Indian Ocean, the Red Sea, and the Northern and Southern Pacific. All of those places are gorgeous and I have seen the same behavior that you described at the begining of the thread at all of those places. The underwater life in the Carribean is not as colorful and the water around Bonaire is not crystal clear most of the time. What we Bonaire addicts enjoy is the variety of the underwater life and the relative tameness of the fish and the uncrowded, unherded diving without having a bunch of "Mister Nasty's" trying to get fed.

The problem is with the divers either not being taught to respect the underwater environment or thinking that it does not mean them.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Liz Ginocchio (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #126) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi All!

Wow was I really surprised reading this thread! We have been diving Bonaire for many, many years and have only encountered 1 gross damaging of the reefs. This is what you should do if you see someone damaging the reef. #1 if it is a dive operator (e.g. divemaster) involved, inform the management of the resort you are staying. I am sure they will take care of it and I will tell you why later. Second, if it is a shore dive and you see someone damaging reefs, get their licence plate numbers when you get on shore. They were South Americans who walked on coral, broke off vase coral to take pictures, etc.

Ed and I did this and this was the procedure. #1) Report it to your dive shop, also report it to the Bonaire Marine Park (Go to the Tourist Center in town, they will direct you to it if need be.) Provide them with the licence plate number.

In our case, not only did we report our incident, another couple did. Our dive shop (Carib Inn!) reported it to the marine park authorities. They checked with the rental places, found out who the car was rented to and where they were staying. We later found out that they recieved a VERY HEFTY fine, along with the resort they were staying at (the resort is ultimately responsible for training and dive education of there guests, so they are held just as financially responsible as the guests. I am sure that if they knew what was going on, they would be upset as if someone reports it, they are financial responsible for fines as well). Also, the people's vacation was cut short as they were escorted to the airport and off the island on the next available flight, never allowed to return! We were thrilled to see that this took place. It is important that we as responsible divers (that is the whole key isn't it, it is about being responsible), report incidents like this, not just say "oh I saw this or saw that". REPORT ANY INCIDENTS!!! Thanks!

Liz

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #274) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I feel there are other factors at play here too. The Maldives and other locations have suffered severe coral bleaching which may due to Global Warming and some Indian Ocean reefs are now more like rock after they have been grazed bare by the parrot fish.

If your Bonaire Dive briefing does not promote keeping off the coral, good bouyancy control and not to wear gloves (with the few exceptions) - then complain to the Marine Park Rangers or Bonhata.

The viz in the Maldives is not as good as Bonaire, the diving can be very restrictive. But they do get plenty of friendly sharks and seasonal Mantas.

I still like the freedom diving in Bonaire the cool macro things, the excellent viz and the people.

Lets promote better diving and please pressure the USA and other countries to join in and try to reduce CO2 emmissions.

Brian


 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #40) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

"(the resort is ultimately responsible for training and dive education of there guests, so they are held just as financially responsible as the guests. I am sure that if they knew what was going on, they would be upset as if someone reports it, they are financial responsible for fines as well)"

This is why the DMs dont scold or report things. I am sure management tells them not to bother the customer.

Which resort or diveshop on the island is known for being competent in this department? If there was one wouldnt we know? Can someone say for sure which is the most environmentally sensitive, or are they all the same? Wouldnt a diveshop or resort take pride in protecting the island?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #275) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason

The good news is that the more responsible dive operators refund the cost of the dive package and then refuse to supply tanks to bad divers as well as informing these rogue individuals to the other dive shops.

We had a problem with a specific fishing boat every evening using a metal anchor tearing up the reef, DM's had little interest but the dive management immediately reported it and followed this up with the Marine Park rangers

Altogether this is more than I have seen anywhere else in the world, but then the operation we use started most of these initiatives.

Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #276) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 6:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Good points, Sorry I was multitasking. But what is added to this when additional burden on the ocean is added from global warming?

I don't know about the US but in Europe and especially the UK we pay through the nose and an average for fuel would be 20 cents per mile just for gas and this is probably a low figure.

We are told that is to help control emmissions to prevent global warming and keep to the Kyoto treaty.

As global citizens what position should we take? Surely we should have a level playing field and all be working to the same aims rather than for things to be just cheaper which means lower standards and this sort of problem.

Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob neer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #987) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 3:09 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

stuff happens...

i'm sure the diver damage to the reef mattered 15 minutes after Lenny's surge was done with it (NOT)!

i don't think "enviromentally conscious" means being overly judgemental of divers with/without cameras...

and i think, based on my numerous recent trips to bonaire, bonaire is taking care of itself;)

whatever...

and those fish pictures in books are just too much like photography...SO impersonal;)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Erhard (BonaireTalker - Post #52) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 10:12 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just want to jump in about the DM's being reluctant to scold reef intruders.

On a dive off of Klien with Toucan last year, there was 2 people in an inflatable raft diving the same sight. As we descended, we noticed the man standing on a coral head posing for a picture his partner was taking. Our DM approached them and singled the man to get down. After repeating the signal 2 more times, the DM physically pushed the man off of the coral. I will also add that the couple were both wearing gloves.

On our way back to the Plaza, we approached the couple who were also returning to the Island. We pulled up along side of them and the 2 DM's on board both laid into them. They were speaking in Dutch so I don't know exactly what was said but by just the tone and bodily actions, it was pretty harsh. When we got in, the DM's reported them. I didn't follow up on the outcome but I and others in my party that were on the boat were impressed by the DM's (both native Bonairians) concern for the reef. It's something my son and I still remember and keep in mind when diving.

Tom

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 1:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hmmmm. Still no stories of DMs reporting their own customers. Wonder why.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (BonaireTalker - Post #83) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 6:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason~

Maybe the reason why the DM's don't tell their "stories" has something to do with business ethics and professionalism. Maybe there is a business code within the diveshop where they are employed that states no public bashing of customers.. My hats off to those DM's that hold their stories in confidence...My respect to them for honoring their agreement and biting their tongues...

Safe Diving
jimini

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J Rushman (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 9:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I tend to think most divers who damage the reef are just clueless and would respond to a rebuke from a divemaster. However, with the diving freedom available on Bonaire, most incidents go unnoticed. I was trained while living in Aruba and bouyancy control and reef protection were not stressed. On a trip to Bonaire MANY years ago, I was "scolded" underwater by Linda B. for touching hard coral while pointing something out to my dive buddy. Although I was a little offended by her correction at the time, she was absolutely correct. I, too, was clueless then.

Also, I think that Bruce B's bouyancy control class should be mandatory for every diver coming to Bonaire - new or returning. Every time I attend, I'm inspired to lose another pound or try another technique.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #169) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 1:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We noticed some rather destructive behaviour by an American diver taking pictures at the Salt Pier. He dragged two camera's with him. He only used one camera at the time, while the other one was lying in the sand, the coral, wherever convenient for him.

He also didn't mind standing on the bottom while producing enormous dust clouds. I really wonder what his pictures look like. God, the vis in Bonaire was awful this year.

I confronted him at the surface. His reaction was that it was only dead coral. First of all, that was not the case, he was touching/standing on live coral as well. Second, people should not stand on "dead" coral either. How can coral ever grow their again, if divers stand on it. I can only hope that those "dead coral touchers" grab the wrong thing like a scorpion fish. Then they'll find out how dead the dead coral really is.

Sorry, I had to vent.

Peter

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 2:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So what ever happened to personal responsibility? I refuse to believe that so many are just clueless as to not know that grabbing stuff and stepping on it and otherwise bashing it around is healthy for the reef (but, incidentally, those parrot fish seem to do a good job). Same goes with "buddy checks." Do people not KNOW this stuff? Come on--they're just often times too lazy or unskilled (=unpracticed) to do the proper things they know to be proper. As a diver (and an American one, BTW) I do my absolute best to ensure that A) I do what I know is proper for the reef, myself, and those around me; if I can't then I will be the first to get my own a** outtada pool, and B) do my best to be a positive role model for all other divers--no matter what their "certification" level, and C) be constructively critical to help others achieve good and responsible habits.

After living on a practically dead estuary (dying at least) and seeing declining reef health all over I think there may be other important things to look at as well. How about uncontrolled and poorly planned coastal development for one? Bonaire may be lucky that it is arid and doesn't have alot of nutrient-laden runoff to poison its reefs (compare to Jamaica let's say). And (sorry to you golfers) no golf courses!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sherry baker (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #491) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 3:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

i felt that most everyone barry and i dove with on bonaire were very cautious of the reef. also on our shore dives, anyone we encountered seemed careful also. i am sure there are ignorant or uncaring divers everywhere which could include snorkelers too, we have been lucky not to see them doing such things.

i know we had to be extra careful when we were taking photos as to keep our bouancy correct and not touching things since you can be easily distracted with the photography.

now getting in and out of the water on a shore dive you have to step somewhere, however if everyone uses the entry and keeps it narrow it will minimize damage.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Ellwood ( Post #1) on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 9:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I did this before only to discover that I had forgotten my password so I have lost a little of my passion. What I want to say is that I am a bit tired of hearing portions of the great veteran diving comunity rant and rage about all of the unqualified divers distroying the reefs. All those out there that have never kicked or touched or bumped the reef please raise their hands. What no hands. Gee we must of all been new at one time or made a mistake at one time or both or a combination or both. Maybe some of us were new back when the amount of divers visiting the reefs were allot fewer so the impact was less thusly the need to be careful was less. Anybody remember those days. But now it's different. There are many more folks that want to enjoy the wonders that we all love. Way back then divers could collect things, pick them up and look at them and even spear fish all in the very places that are now protected. Anyone out there remember collecting or touch without concern cause the diver numbers were not so high that the impact was a worry? Think hard now. My hand is up I'm guilty, I have kicked the reef, bumbed the reef, touched the reef. Never on purpose and always with great regret. And ya know what I might screw up again, I constantly try not to but I unlike some folks am only human. My wife and I have dived in a few different place in the world with many different people and we have never met a single one that wants to damage the reef or a single one that would make me believe that they are uncaring to the point that the reef is secondary to their own personal wants. What has done the most damage to the reefs of the world, people or nature? In Bonaire it's Lenny. My opinion, but of course this has all been just my opinion. We love to dive, we love Bonaire and we truly love meeting all the other folks that share our love. So maybe we can get our noses out of the air, share the love of diving with each other and with that; the heart felt need to protect the reef will be communicated in a way that it will invade the hearts of those that we are talking to. Being a snob is not the answer. We will be back in Bonaire in two weeks and I promise that I will try to make every shore entry and exit without touching bottom....Who can walk on water these days not me but what the heck I'll give a try maybe I'll become famous.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Niki Harris (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #732) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 12:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I read all the above posts, and was sort of surprised how Larry painted everyone with the broad brush of carelessness. Bonaire's reef-clumsy divers have seemed a minority to me. I have been taught the customs clearly in the orientation at the dive shop. Some abusers get reported, some are instructed tactfully. I agree with Dave E, here. Lenny was the equivalent of thousands of years of bumps and tweaks from our elbows and fins. Such a loss. We do have to nurture what's there now. I'll join you tiptoeing on the surface in three weeks.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Ellwood (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 10:14 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Now we have two water walkers, this could be a great beginning. But alas the dive boat industry will not like it when we are walking to the dive sites instead of taking the boats. Ya know when I hit a bird with my car I feel bad but I don't stop driving. I didn't try to hit it, I tried to avoid it but it happened. Same with the reef, 99% of the folks are not trying to hurt or distroy; there are acidents, sad, bad for the reef, bad for the diver but true and as long as all of us do our very best to be careful and to pass our concerns to others then we are being good divers. The only other alternatives are A. to be pissed off everytime we dive cause there are others around that just might have an accident or B. we ALL stay out of the water so the reef is truely protected cause even the very very best divers have a negative impact. Neither choice works for me. I will continue to dive, enjoy the reef and all the folks that share it with me. That's it I'm done except to say that if I see a lady walking to Klien Bonaire in three weeks I'll know who it is........Bye

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 8:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well said Dave. I was starting to get a little paranoid thinking about the self appointed scuba police watching my every move and confronting me on the surface if I failed to meet the "walk on water" standard. Hope you don't mind if I sign on to your third choice above - "enjoy the reef and all the folks that share it with me" Not my words but I couldn't have put it better. Have a great dive y'all!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Thomas (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 11:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I guess Larry could do as my wife(buddy) and myself do. We have been to Bonaire many times and I guess the last five trips we have not put a foot in a boat. We do shore diving only and very seldom even see other divers in the water so we don't have to worry about anyone except our selves, we do hope all divers are as careful as we try to be. I guess it would take a bunch of dive masters to police all the shore divers.(G) Larry, I don't think you have taken into consideration that a large % of divers never do boat dives. I do agree that all divers should be as careful as possible but everyone can't be perfect all the time. Also I have heard many sad stories about divers in the Pacific trashing the reefs, anywhere that grown up kids dive their will be some damage to the reefs.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #21) on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 11:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

My only comment to this thread, is regarding the mention of solo diving being allowed.

I have 100's of solo dives. About 150 of those solo dives are in Bonaire. I can say that when solo diving is outlawed: I stop coming, plain and simple.

Also, I very rarely ever see another diver (I avoid boat dives for the most part). When I see a group, I usually head the other way.

I will be in Bonaire for trip 10 in one week and trip 11 at Christmas.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob neer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #996) on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 6:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

you go jeff ;)

really...i realize that there are not any "real" rules in diving...and so there is room for divers to have "opinions"...i.e. diving alone is illegal...dives not logged don't count...what a bunch of sh_t...we'll be judged for sure ... hopefully not by some over-judgemental diver;)

cheers;)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Rose (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 6:20 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Jeff

I agree that divers should be free to go solo if they want to, I'm just surprised that people do :-). I’ve never seen so many lone divers as I saw in Bonaire.

The increased risks are well documented, although most of the risk can be mitigated by just knowing what you’re doing yourself, being fit and using good equipment. You increase the risk by diving alone, but a good diver will only increase it from very very tiny to very tiny :-) . I prefer to keep the risk as low as possible as a general policy.

I think I’d miss the pleasure of diving with somebody else, and not just my wife :-). Sometimes it can be a complete stranger, like one guy I buddied with in Bonaire on my recent trip. He and I seemed to have a similar sense of humour and appreciated the same things. We enjoyed the dives and talking about them afterwards! (On the other hand, on a couple of occasions I've had to buddy with strangers who turned out to be less than helpful and I had to pretty much fend for myself anyway!)

But, most of all, the reason I don't go alone is because if anything happened all my life insurance (probably, but I wouldn’t like to test it out ;-) ) and travel insurance (certainly, standard exclusion) would be invalidated and the family would be up sh*t creek. Scary!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 1:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think solo divers respect for the sea and general responsibility for themselves makes them the least likely candidate for reef damage. Logic tells me that its the "boat" people who do most of diver related damage to the reef. When I ski the backcountry there is always a lead guide and a "tailgunner" or a guide to follow the party. This would be a good move for Bonaire DMs. Would the BMP or whoever go for this idea?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 2:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Not if they want to maintain their rep as the "HOME OF DIVING FREEDOM!" (a concept I hope Bonaire never abandons!).

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #43) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 3:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What does diving freedom have to do with two DMs in the water with their group.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 3:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

My mistake. I assumed you were also referring to shore divers.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1411) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 5:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Nothing to do with just having '2 DM's in the water with their group'.

But the imposition of a lead DM and a 'tailgunner' DM requires that the group is kept together under the control of the DM's, thus not allowing the freedom to dive the profile and speed at each divers choice. Those two last things are what Bonaire's diving freedom is all about, for boat or shore diving. We don't need the Japanese guiding system on Bonaire!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 6:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

A rear guide doesnt "require" anything. A tailgunner would be the guy looking at the majority of the group from behind. Most boat dive groups stay somewhat together and the viz is good enough to see if divers are touching or damaging the reef. He could focus on photogs or beginners.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sarah (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1890) on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 7:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Unfortunately, the two economic sectors associated with coral reefs, namely tourism and fisheries will face the impacts of global warming and SCUBA diving in the not too distant future. FOR BRIAN - Although total carbon dioxide emissions in the UK have fallen by approx. 20 per cent between the early 70's and 2000, unfortunately emissions from transport have increased by approx. 87 per cent! Nuclear power is the way forward...

Coral reefs are threatened continuously by tourism, global warming, diffuse pollution and so on.. On Bonaire, I do believe that the SCUBA diving industry tries very hard to highlight the importance of not making contact with marine organisms, however, there will always be divers/snorkelers that will make contact with the corals, especially when they are not being watched! On my last trip to Bonaire, I did see some coral species showing signs of disease. In terms of global warming, the impacts of this phenomenon are seen on the Pacific Islands, indeed, the Kiribati has already disappeared!

That's all from me.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #278) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 3:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sarah

Thanks, at least some of us accept global warming is an issue. No one else seemed to care.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark James (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 1:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I would just like to state that not everyone with a camera is damaging the reef. I will be in Bonaire on May 25th and plan on taking a lot of pictures. I was in Browning passage last month in B.C. Canada and went to the best dive site I have ever been to (Hunt Rock). There is not a spot that does not have life so you can't touch anything. With the very strong current and surge it was almost imposable to take pics. So instead of killing things I just did the best I could and only got a couple of keepers.

http://home.att.net/~underexposed/Hunt_Rock.jpg
I think this link works, not sure how to add a pic to the message.

I believe most of us do the best we can and that there will always be people that don't respect themselves or the world around them. Lets hope Bonaire and unsupervised diving can survive them.

Mark...[:]q

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark James (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 1:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Let me see if I can figure this out..;)
Hunt Rock

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By DIVER DEBBI (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #283) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 9:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

what awsome color....thanks for the posting

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By constance (BonaireTalker - Post #11) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:59 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just got back from Bonaire a couple of weeks ago and hate to but have have to agree with alot of what has been said in this thread about the, not carelessness, but either disregard, or even meaness of SOME divers. I saw a woman with pink fins in front of Buddy's on a shore dive with three other people. She had her knife out and was poking everything she was interested in with the blade!! Everyone else in her group was watching, then they would move on to the next spot and poke it.
I saw a dive master on a boat dive drag a seahorse out of a hidden spot and show him off.
On all of my trips I saw many photographers damage coral in pursuit of pictures but on guy completely lay down on the coral to take a seahorse photo. Back on the boat I said to him he was wallowing on the coral and he said, well, he had to get the picture.
This trip I pointed out a very big but pretty well hidden moray to my husband, this other couple saw up looking, came over, the photographer literally put his arms around the coral, hugged it, put the camera on the other side of it, into the hole with the moray to get the photo.
It has gotten to where I don't point anything out or alert anyone to something good to see if they have a camera. Defensivness doesn't help this problem. We all make mistakes, I am not talking about mistakes. Only the newest dive masters seem to even try to tell people to move up.
It is like going to a beautiful park and walking along the trail and seeing litter. The people who left it were also there because it was a beautiful spot but they trashed it anyway. I don't understand that and I don't understand this.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Rose (BonaireTalker - Post #16) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:49 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Constance

It gives me no comfort or reassurance to know that others have seen what I've seen and feel as bad about is as I do. But it does help to know that there are some other people who care. Thank you.

As you'll see from other replies, some people just think it doesn't matter because there'll be another hurricane along in a while, or have some other strange justification for their behaviour.

It is good to know that not everybody puts their own convenience or photo album before the lives of the animals they're sharing some space with, including Mark above who held off taking pics to avoid unavoidable damage. You go, Mark!

And if Bonaire can't take care of itself, and the people of the island and the dive operators do continue to let it get out of hand, where will diving freedom be then? Somewhere else.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Allen (BonaireTalker - Post #87) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:53 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I guess the real key is speaking up. If you see someone finning a coral head, poking something with a knife, or some other distasteful act, SAY SOMETHING. We all visit Bonaire to have a good time, so no one is itching to get in an arguement with other divers. We still need to let others know that such behavior is destructive and unacceptable. Visibility in Bon is good enough that you can still see a lot with bad buoyancy, just stay farther from the bottom. I also encourage the dive shops to let people know, as part of their orientation/marine park tag issuance, just how damaging it is to a coral head, fish or whatever, when you touch it. Most everone who posts on this site cares about the future of the seas. Act on those concerns and speak up.

 


Visit: The Bonaire WebCams - Current Bonaire images and weather!
The Bonaire Insider - the latest tourism news about Bonaire
The Bonaire Information Site, InfoBonaire
Search Bonaire - Search top Bonaire Web sites


Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration