While in Bonaire last week, we heard that a diver went missing at 1000 Steps (I think it was on Thursday).

Scuttlebutt was that he went too deep. His buddy tried to catch/help him, but was unsuccessful and after getting to 180 feet he decided his rescue attempt could not continue.

Does anyone know any other details about this?

Peggy

I posted some of what I heard over in Community Chat - look at the tail end of the Winter Flowers thread.

Jake

Thanks for the info Jake. So, the guy was from Georgia? Me too. I wonder if he was with a group?

If you hear anything else, please let us know.

Thanks!

Peggy

Yo,

This is what I got..... yes the divers were from Georgia, and I believe there were six of them total. On Thursday of last week, four of them entered the water, assisted by a fifth, at Oil Slick Leap to do a dive of "at least 350 feet".

We were at the site when they went into the water. The person that died was the last one in. They all had doubles, and were each carrying a "spare" 80 with an independant regulator, presumably for decompression stops.

I had also heard that it was a heart attack, but I didn't think an autopsy had been performed yet. And yes, the person had not made it to one of the deco stops, so someone actually went back down looking for him and recovered the body.

Now, for the rest of this post, please understand that I am writing from a state of aggrevation. I have seen this kinda stuff too many times - as a SCUBA participant, an FAA flight instructor, and a hand gun instructor.

These guys were some of the most arrogant, macho dudes I have ever met! I would say beyond a shadow of a doubt they were not tech diver qualified. Most people of advanced training just do what they do and don't go around bragging about it to try and impress others.

These guys were talking how just one day earlier they had done a reverse profile of 160 feet followed by 220 feet. They bragged how they "accomplished" this even though the divemaster on the boat said not to go below 100 feet (most macho guys think the rules don't apply to them).

It's the "nothing is going to happen to me, because I'm good" syndrome. I have known pilots who have died from stupid things, just because they always thought "it" would happen to someone else. They could break the rules and ignore training - that was for the other guy!

This is a sad incident, and one that could easily have been avoided. Don't do the dives unless you are qualified (and I'm assuming they were not).

Their group was on our AirJam flight to MonBay on Friday. There was kind of a low murmer around them. I didn't hear any of them bragging about their dive "accomplishments" that day.

And the sad part of it is, knowing the macho syndrome of people like this, that this will probably be another feather in their caps - something else they can brag about.... the fact that what they do is "dangerous" and they have lost friends doing this kinda stuff.....

Very sad.....

Again, most of this is hearsay. We did see them go into the water at Oil Slick, and the guy who went in last (the oldest of the group, and the one rumored to have died), was not with them on the return flight. Also, they were diving out of SandDollar, and that is where I first heard of the incident. I was telling one of the divemasters about these guys going deep (I was still trying to figure out why they wanted to do it anyway), when he told me that one of them had died. And after we dove Oil Slick and were up at Karpata or something, I could swear I heard sirens.... didn't think much of it at the time (except for the fact that I had never heard sirens on Bonaire before). But know that I think about it, the timing would have been about right for when they came out of the weter - they were figuring 11 minutes of bottom time, and 88 minutes for deco stops.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I just can't stand machoism and arrogance. They have no place in our sport. In the long run, all they do is get people hurt......

Dave I am in complete agreement with you and couldn't have said it better myself. We were diving with someone in Cozumel who was laughing about going to 110 feet and not even knowing it, because he was "chasing the cutest little fish". I think our profile that dive was maybe 60 feet, I don't remember for sure. You have to wonder where these people were when they went through their training? It's not macho, it's just plain silly.

My condolences go out to that man's family.

Yes this is a dangerous sport, we knew that going into it. That's why we always err on the side of caution. This isn't the time for me to get off on a rant, you said everything I would have said anyway. Just a senseless waste of life.

...And frightened...

Still, I am thinking of starting my diving-lessons when I am living on Bonaire... But I don't think I'll *ever* go below 100 feet...

Meanwhile I'll stick to snorkel, snorkel, snorkel...

I understand that the divemaster who told them 100 feet max was also pretty ripped by their response/attitude after the dive (also second hand information, mind you).

Jake

I do agree with u Dave, but I would feel "better" if we were sure what happened. As far as I know it could still be a "normal" heart-attack. Please do not turn this thread in2 a ranting one: somebody did die and there are people left behind.

Kitty, as you know, there isn't much reason to go that deep anyway. There is much more to see when you stay shallow! Good luck in your move, I'm sure when you have time to think about it you are bubbling over with excitement!

Thanks 4 the info Jake.
I do hope u'll share any information u might get.

Kitty, don't worry. In my opinion, there's no reason 2 go beyond 100 feet, unless u want 2 go tech-diving or are diving 4 a specific object. There's even enough 2 see between 15 and 60 feet.

OK Jake, now I'm even more curious.

What happened after the dive? Were they able to recover his body?

Some of our folks were also diving on the north side that day, and saw the ambulance. They said it was returning to town driving at a normal speed, and with no siren on.

If these guys were indeed the macho type, there is nothing anyone could have done. I've seen people like this in action and unfortunately they think things always happen to someone else.

My condolences to the man's friends and family.

Peggy

Jake,

From what I understand, the divemaster was also pretty worried/scared. Apparently, according to him, he had told everyone to not to do down the line because it ties off at 200 feet. He instructed everyone to go to shallow water, get a reference point, and do your dive.

These bozos went straight for the line and went down fast. The divemaster told me that that he put his gear on, and went after them. He stopped at 100 feet (for his own safety, and that of others on his boat), and lost track of them.

Even though I'm not the biggest fan of this divemaster (Jake, can you guess who?), it sounds exactly what these guys would do. And they told me the same story (before the accident), except they left out the part about the divemaster's instructions, and him chasing them......

Most good divers, pilots, atheltes, etc. don't have to tell you how good they are. They impress you with their skill, not with their mouth. That's the first sign of an amatuer - someone who has to tell you how great they are. And most pros understand and abide by the rules.

If they were diving on a Bonaire Dive and Discover (ex-Sand Dollar Dive & Photo) boat and violated André's rules to the extent related here by DG, they may have been shore diving because they were banned from BD&D boats. André takes no such nonsense from people.

It is sad that anyone should die scuba diving, more so when it is because of stupidity. I wonder at the reported late/last entry. Equipment trouble?? 'Buddies' going ahead on such a dive??? 350' on air??? There are always a few people on the lunatic fringe in any activity. Sounds like that here.

I know which divemaster you're talking about (and you should be proud of you offspring too :-) ), but I had heard the same of another divemaster, so it appears they did it to more than one.

Jake

PS To the other question: No idea if a body was recovered, but considering no one mobilized a rescue force on-island I would assume that the body was brought up by his comrades. And if he was already DOS (on surfacing), no need for the ambulance to rush (they don't rely on doctors at hospitals here to make that determination).

Igor, I agree with you; however, even if this turns out to be a heart attack death, the fact that they were bragging about their exploits tells me that they are very unsafe. Maybe the heart attack was brought on by the pressure? Maybe we will never know the answer to that, but based on Dave's first hand knowledge of the "bragging", I'd say they should steer cleer of diving altogether. I can understand maybe one person being that careless, macho, and wanting to brag about going that deep, but you would think of the other three or four friends/dive buddies someone would have the guts to speak up and refuse to do the dive for safety reasons. Sounds like they were all in agreement. Hmmm.

My sympathies to the family involved on their loss. If indeed the cause of death was a heart attack, perhaps scuba diving at the time of the event had no bearing on the outcome. I can't begin to imagine how you tell the next of kin someone died while pursuing a hobby. It would be even harder if this incident were easily preventable by the application of common sense and good judgement.

The ocean is no place for machismo.

ditto to randy's post...my condolensces to the family as well. Very sad indeed.

Kelly, I agree.
All we've heard so far, doesn't exactly point 2ward safe divers. I just hope everybody thinks of the ones left behind and shows some compassion.
Please dive safe and don't take unnecessary risks. Remember: if u get yourself in2 trouble while diving, u'll get others in2 trouble 2!

Well, that's just it, Igor. You aren't only putting yourself at risk, but your dive buddies as well as whomever decides to try to rescue you. I feel so sorry for his family, how do you tell them that he was just careless and it was his fault? I assume if they know nothing about diving maybe that information can be kept from them, I don't know. How difficult this must be. If it was an isolated event, that's one thing, but it sounds like they probably did this sort of thing on a fairly regular basis. I thought about this all night last night and it has really upset me. Everyone out there --- BE SAFE. I hate to go on and on about it, but we really must remember how easy it is to become a statistic. If it means refusing to make a dive with someone who is being careless, then just refuse. It certainly beats the alternative. Now, with that said, everyone have a great day today !

By the way, and of course off-topic... Igor I've never told you, but I just love your profile pic. You two look great together.

OK, this is off-topic, too.

I had no idea that some people had profiles and pics. How do you do that?

Peggy

Thanks Kelly

Peggy,
at the bottom of the screen there's a bar with icons. The second from the right reads "User Profile". Click it and u'll end up in the Profile Editor. Add the information u want (remember 2 check the fields u want 2 show us ) and save it.
I'm looking 4ward 2 see your picture....

Igor

P.S.

According to the local newspaper:

The body of the diver (Archie Deal, date of birth: August 1st, 1952) has been recovered. Several doctors have tried (in vain) to reanimate him. He was already dead when he got ashore. He had airbubbles in his blood (is this called acute caisson disease / compressed air illness ??).

Apparently they went diving with the three of them, wanting to experience the things great depths do to your system on purpose. When they reached the depth they wanted to reach, one of the divers went back up way too fast. The other divers even lost sight of him.

Local Police do not see any need for the policial/judicial confiscation of the body for an autopsy, unless the American insurance company asks for it. Local Police see the death as an accident.

Thank you Kitty for that information, I've been waiting to hear something about it. Maybe they just didn't believe what they learned in class about what it can do to you. Once again, to all my diver friends -- BE CAREFUL and be safe.

Another case of terminal stupidity, as one of my instructors used to say. If they wanted to 'experience' what deep depths could do to your body, they could have done a chamber demonstration
'dive' without killing anyone.

Thanks for the update Kitty!
I have a hard time believing anybody would take such a risc... It looks like the rumours weren't that far of the truth this time. Sigh, what a waste. I do agree with the police though: this should be regarded as an accident/incident. It's impossible 2 prevent such irresponsible actions.

By the way Kitty, in what paper did u find this?

Igor, I found it in the online Bonaire edition of the newspaper 'Èxtra': http://www.extrabon.com/edishon
It's in Papiamentu, though. But if you understand the language it should be no problem...

I am a PADI scuba instructor, and suppose I will always worry about students/divers being responsible and careful.

Last April (in Bonaire) 4 men in my tour group did a dive to 130 feet, "just to see how it would affect us and how we would react." One was a brand new advanced diver with less than 20 dives, and the others were relatively new open water divers who had never dived in the ocean before that trip. When I learned what they'd done (they were bragging about it), we sat down and had a pow-wow about the dangers of their actions, and the definition of being safe, responsible divers. They were aggravated that I found out about it and "poo-poo'd" my concern, saying that it was no big deal, they'd "looked after" each other, they made it back OK, etc. These guys were friends as well as customers, and I ended up telling them that if I ever heard about them doing anything that stupid again I would report them to PADI and have their certifications voided because I didn't want to have to tell their wives they weren't coming home. Of course I have no authority to void anything, but they didn't know that, and that got their attention. It also got me a not-so-nice nickname, but that's how it goes.

On the trip last week, we had another 4 divers go too deep (2 of them reached 128 feet, and one was using nitrox). One was an advanced diver, one was another relatively new diver. They didn't do it on purpose, they just got carried away and weren't paying attention to their depth gauges. At first they said a current pushed them down, but later they admitted that wasn't true. Thankfully, they were horrified at what they'd done, and they learned a valuable lesson. I know without a doubt they will be more careful in the future.

There is no way we can watch every diver all of the time. All we can do is stress safe, conservative diving practices, and then hope that people will adhere to what they've been taught.

Hopefully the divemaster doesn't feel like this accident was his fault. Sounds like there was nothing that anyone could have done to prevent this.

Peggy

Peggy,
I totally agree with u. I just hope these kind of stupid "accidents" won't give diving abad name.

By the way: I saw you updated your profile... where's your profile-pic?

Peggy,

As a clarification, these guys were shore diving when the accident occurred. There wasn't a resort dive master with them at the time. The incident with the divemaster(s) was earlier in the week....

Here's another interesting thing they mentioned. One of the guys said that they were all divemasters and/or instructors, so they were qualified to do the 350 foot dive. I've done all the PADI divemaster training, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember a divemaster or instructor certificate to indicate that you were tech diver qualified..... and to me a dive to 350 feet would be considered a technical dive. I thought about questioning them on their technical dive training, but....... was it really my business?

Peggy, I hope your little discussion with your set of divers makes a difference. I have had similar discussions with some of my flight students in the past. The problem is, once someone does this type of thing and survives, whether it's SCUBA, flying, etc., it seems to reinforce their decision to have done it in the first place, and sets them up to try again. They figure "hey, everything went okay before, let's do it again!". Usually people who get themselves in trouble have been there before and have gotten away with it.

As instructors, mentors, and friends, we need to make sure these things don't happen the "first" time.... It's no different than taking the keys from someone who is stone drunk.

It still freaks me out - I saw this guy go in the water for that faitful dive! I knew they were putting themselves in harm's way, but I didn't try to stop them or convince them to re-think their plan. Odds are, they wouldn't have listened to me anyway..... and I'm not their father or gaurdian angle...... and we all have to take responsibility for our actions.....but I still wonder......

I will try not to let those excuses prevent me from at least trying to make a difference the next time I'm in this situation (God help me that I never am!). To answer my own question from earlier: Yes. It is my business - it is all of our businesses to step up and be heard when we see someone doing something stupid that may endanger themselves or others.

Sorry to unload, but I've been thinking about this for a couple of days. It's the closest I've ever been to actually seeing someone die. I still remember looking right into that guy's face as he let the air out of his BC, and slid under the water....... never to see the sunlight again.

So sad, and so avoidable.

Thanks for listening.......

-dave.

Dave,
although I do agree we all share a responsibility 4 the things we witness (if u can prevent something or help victims, u should), u aren't responsible 4 what happened just because u happened 2 be at the same place! Judging by the things we hear they wouldn't have listened 2 u!
I can understand u have a hard time 4getting about it, even I thought about it a lot and I was a few 1000 miles away. We'll all have 2 try 2 make sure it doesn't happen, but sad as it is, such things will always happen!
Please, Dave, don't feel bad.

I'm glad they were shore-diving without a dive-master present: I would hate 2 see a divemaster feel responsible 4 something he also probably couldn't have prevented.

'Divemasters and/or instructors'??? '..qualified to got o 350' on air...'???? Jake had the PO2 ratios above here. Anybody know a course that doesn't teach about oxygen poisoning?? I wonder if the depths they talked about reaching were real???

Dave, is it possible that the fourth diver was really reluctant to do this dive, knew he was unqualified, but was pushed into the dive by friends???

A too fast ascent and bubbles in the blood sounds like air embolism from breath olding, which often comes with panic.

Bad in any case.

Police list it as an accident...maybe accidental suicide.

Peggy, I applaude your efforts...maybe a glimmer of reality did leak in, if it got you a disrespectful nickname, it also got you my respect. thanks.

Dave, I can only imagine how you feel, and it does not feel good to me. Most likely you could have done nothing to stop what seems at first glance, and in reality, is a case of terminal disrespect to physics, human physiology and good sense.

my prayers are with all involved, so sad.

How awful, and what TERRIBLE judgment they used! It is indeed a terrible tragedy, and a completely preventable one.

Glen,

Peer pressure is a powerful force. It *is* possible that he was pushed into this by his buddies, but I really didn't get an indication of it one way or another.

There again, I still believe it is more of the "it always happens to the other guy" syndrome.

"Rules and Safety are for other people - I know what I'm doing"......

-dave.

Peggy, Your nickname comment reminded me of a trip to Bonaire in 1998. A few of us were palnning to make a couple of dives in the National Park. I had dove the sites the year before. The current was strong and shore entries were narrow out of the lagoons. They were definitely for advanced divers. We had 5 in our group that were planning to go. One was an instructor and the rest were AOW with experience. One other diver that had just been OW certified two days earlier wanted to go. She threw a fit when the dive instructor told her she couldn't go. This lady had not mastered bouyancy and was not trying to. She did not have her own computer. She always said she would just "stay with the group" to be safe. She didn't even do that. She would bounce up and down like a yo-yo on dives. She refused to listen to the instructor. She said it was her life and she could risk it if she wanted. I finally said that I was not going on the dives. (I was the only one who had made the dives before and had talked the others into going.) I explained to her that I never dive beyond my ability nor WITH ANYONE who I feel is diving beyond their ability because that puts everyone at risk. She finally backed down went with others in our group that day. The five of us made the dives. They still rank up there with my favorite of all time.
I, too, got a nickname (S_ _ _ Head) for the rest of the week. But everyone came home safe and when I ran into her a couple of months later at a dive party, she laughed and said "S_ _ _ Head is here." I just looked at her and said, "That is Doctor S_ _ _ Head to you." Sometimes you have to be a S_ _ _ Head. But I have been called worse. I was even called a Yankee once.

so where did they get the doubles?

Joe,

Basically, their double was a regulator/manifold that connect two tanks together. Their BCs were setup to handle and strap two tanks side by side.

They just took two 80s, strapped them up to their BCs, and hooked the manifold between them.

I haven't seen too many doubles, but I believe it was a pretty common arrangement. I believe that "doubles" are just two single tanks connected at the valve by a manifold, and strapped into a BC configured for two tanks....

I have to say, these guys did have good equipment: top of the line Sherwood & Zeagle regulators, Zeagle BCs, Force Fins, Cochrans, etc. They had spent good money on equipment - for what it's worth....

-dave.

i,ve heard of rigs like that but never seen them. more used to seeing permanently configured doubles.

There's a more detailed article in this week's Bonaire Reporter, although some of the details there conflict with what Dave observed first hand...

http://www.bonairereporter.com (subscription required though)

Jake

Jake,

Uh-oh...... what are the conflicts? I tried to tell what we observed, without empelishments.

As Popeye said: "I knows what I sees"

-dave.

There are details about the dive, three divers instead of four and a few other differences. Mostly it is an expansion of information about the dive itself and post-dive. Apparently his computer read 305'. And his two 'buddies' were reeling up their down line while he was still at depth.

I have asked that they post a copy of the article here.

Hmmmm....... I could swear I saw four divers go in the water. Maybe one of them wasn't going deep? Or maybe he came to his senses and backed out of the dive early? I may have been a little narc'ed from my 47ft dive, but I still was able to count to four!!

And I don't recall seeing a line on any of them. But, what the heck... who knows.

Looks like the buddy system at work: same day, same ocean.

I'm curious.... how did they do the investigation? Was it completed the day of the incident? Because the surviving members of that group were on our AirJam flight the next day.

-dave.

To quote Popeye the Sailor, "That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more !!"

This thread is beginning to remind me of the "rubberneckers" that tie up our highways looking for blood and gore at the scene of an accident. It appears the only thing that has not been talked to death is the colour of his wetsuit.

People a diver on Bonaire, one of us, has died in a most unfortunate incident. May he (and this thread) rest in peace.

Dear C.Kritagent,
I don't think u've been reading the thread very well if u think this is about "looking for blood and gore"! This thread is about how this tragedy could have happened and how it could have been prevented (or not).
There are people who have seen this happening and who are wondering what they could/should have done. I think that's a very valuable discussion!
If u feel it's not your cup of tea: don't read it.
Igor

I think it is good to try to get as many details on a tragedy like this so that others can understand what happened. Discussions like this can save the lives of other divers. It can wake you up and make you understand that instructors like Peggy aren't just trying to ruin people's fun. Rules and guidelines are for your safety, not to spoil a good time.

George DeSalvo, the publisher of the Bonaire Reporter, has given me permission to post, verbatim, their report on the diver’s death at Oil Slick Leap on 5 December. He also outlined his sources for the article: a slightly abridged version of that reply to an email of mine is next. He also said that he has talked to the family in Georgia. This is posted here for information and education purposes.

George’s source comment:

“,,, You may post it verbatim. You may wish to add my sources were two VERY experienced divers on shore who assisted in the rescue, a diver in the water who witnessed the ascent and took the diver to the hospital, one of Deal's dive buddies and other informed sources. Please say it is posted with permission.
Regards,
George”

The article from the December 13-20, 2002 issue of the Bonaire Reporter, p. 3:

“A tragic accident claimed the life of American tourist Archie "Mike" Deal, 51, last Thursday afternoon, December 5th. According to eyewitnesses, Deal popped to the surface at the Oil Slick Leap dive site without decompression after a dive to over 300 feet. He was breathing compressed air. Divers on Bonaire are upset because this was an incident that should never have happened if normal procedures were followed. It was obvious that the three men who made the dive were untrained and ill equipped to go to such depths.
“This horror story might begin when three experienced divers planned their dive. To dive to more than 200 feet breathing compressed air is risky for many reasons, but people do it regularly nevertheless. However, special training, procedures and equipment are recommended. Only some of these were used. And no oxygen or other safety gear was available in case of trouble. And to go to over 300 feet is almost suicide. According to our source, the dive was planned to reach 350 feet, although this was denied by one of the surviving divers who said the plan was to go to 200 feet.
“The three divers wore double tank rigs, but each had only one first stage regulator, so there was no emergency redundancy. They did hang additional tanks on the dive mooring to support them during the long decompression and used line reels to monitor their descent to the depths. They arranged for land support by a fourth man in a pickup truck, who was to wait on shore. Deal was an "Assistant Dive Instructor" with lots of experience. He owned an air conditioning/heating business in Savannah, Georgia.
The three divers descended and stopped at a depth which varies between 200 and 305 feet depending on who is telling the story. The victim's computer recorded a maximum depth of 305 ft. (92.4 m.). One of the survivors said they descended to 200 feet then agreed to ascend after less than 30 minutes, but instead one of them dove deeper.

“Up higher in the water column a pair of other divers, making their safety stop at about 15 feet, noticed tanks hanging on the mooring line and a thin line disappearing into the depths. Soon they saw a diver's bubbles rising toward them, followed by a diver who stopped at about 50 feet down and signaled OK. Another diver followed him, reeling up the line. Suddenly, a third diver ascended quickly past them both and the safety stop divers and broke the surface.
“Realizing there was a problem, the divers at 15 feet surfaced and offered to assist the diver, Mike Deal. He was coherent and speaking but in distress and requested help. With the assistance of a snorkeler and other people ashore he was hauled up the ladder and lay down ashore, unable to stand, but still conscious. On the scene, coincidently, were a nurse and an inhalation therapist who immediately began to help. The diver who had recovered him from the water brought around his pickup, loaded up the victim and drove off to the hospital arriving in less than 10 minutes. All the while the nurse and therapist performed CPR and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.
“The victim's buddies were unaware of the problem and remained in the water. They were just beginning a long decompression. Their support pickup truck was nowhere to be seen.
“Upon arrival at San Francisco Hospital the victim was placed on a gurney and hustled into the emergency room. A few minutes later the doctor emerged and said that the patient was dead, probably having passed away en-route. The rescuers returned to the dive site and informed the victim's buddies and the pickup driver who had just appeared that their companion was dead. Their time under water was 91 minutes,.
“Why Mike Deal, an experienced diver and veteran of many deep dives, ascended so rapidly may never be known. But there are so many dangerous factors in play at those depths there can be many reasons. All that can be done now is to offer sympathy to his family and friends and hope that fellow divers learn from this tragic experience.  G.D”.

Good article. Strange things both real and imagined are seen and felt at those depths. Good thing his buddies kept their heads and continued their decompression assent, there might have been more.
A couple months ago the womens freedive champian succumed on a dive of 720'.
I may be a wuss and a little lazy, but I can see more than enough under 50'. The time and effort to go where no man has gone just has never tripped the trigger of this midwest beachbum wannabe.

No matter what their insane intents were, I think I can say that we all feel horribly for these guys. What makes people do things like this is way beyond my realm of comprehension. It was a severe tragedy that should have never happened. I've only done one dive at 106 feet, and that was in Grenada diving the Bianca C. I am also the 50 or 60 foot diver, and always will be. This is a tragedy for sure, and I agree it needs to be talked about, especially by Dave. If for nothing else, maybe it will provide a wake up call for other divers that think going down that deep is exciting.

There are old divers and there are macho divers, but there are no old, macho divers.

Thanks 4 the information Glen!
This helps in trying 2 understand what happened.

ps I don't think that's correct, Al. It's true that u find more macho's in young people, but I don't think all macho's are old.

Just for the record, not all "deep" divers are macho divers.

Igor,

I think you miss Al's point: he was saying that macho divers are much less likely to grow old than sensible ones. A play on the saying that there are no old, bold pilots.

Ahhh, thanks Glen. I didn't get that (might have something 2 do with the fact that I'm dutch ).
Sorry Al!

Peter,
I agree and I think most of us do. If u have the right training and the right gear there's no problem. Of course there are (and always will be) higher risks involved when diving deep. For most divers diving deep will not add much, for some it's the ultimate thing. It's just not necessary to brag about it.

Thank you so much Glen as well as George DeSalvo.

I have been watching this and other threads since this unfortunate accident. Repeating to myself over and over "There but for the grace of God, Go I".

Having lost a diving friend during a dive this year, my heart goes out to this man's family.

I also feel for his diving companions regardless.
The nightmare they are reliving is unbearable, over and over seeing your friend shoot past you. I hope they get some form of counseling. I would not want to diving in their fins right now.

"Good, Bad Or Indifferent - We Are All Examples"

Try to be a good example!

Great words Tom!
Sorry 2 hear u had 2 experience loosing a diving friend.
I hope everybody out there listens 2 u!

I've heard the same saying, a little differently:

"There are old divers, and there are bold divers. But there are no old, bold divers."

Meaning, if you are bold enough to take chances, then your chances of living to old age are not that good unless you are very, very lucky.

Such a sad, sad situation.

I have a friend who is a macho diver, and I firmly believe that one day I'll read about him in the paper. In his case, I think that being able to talk (maybe even brag?) about doing things that not many people do is what motivates him. As an example, he recently had the RK procedure done on his eyes. He made sure to ask the doctor if he'd still be able to dive to 10 atmospheres after having the procedure done.

Aarrgghhhh!!!!!

Peggy

One last comment on this thread, and I'm through....

The remark about 200 feet is a bunch of crap. Maybe the surviving family members were told this by his buddies or something, but it's bull. These guys told us that their dive plan was to go to 350 feet. They had it all "mapped" out to be 11 minutes of bottom time, and 88 minutes of ascent time.

They never once mentioned 200 feet as the plan....

And Peter, I agree with you. Not all "deep" divers are macho. I did not mean to imply that. There are "machos" in every sport. There are macho shallow divers.....

I think this has been a good thread. Unfortunately, it usually takes a tragedy, or near tragedy, for us to step back and think about things. Ask yourself: "When was the last time I reviewed or discussed safety issues with my dive buddies?" The answer may scare you. Do any of us actually do buddy checks before getting in the water anymore? Can you still remember the acronym? Shore assitance - even shallow dives may require help from someone on shore. How many of us have that luxury when we are shore diving a remote site? When was the last time you reviewed the symptoms for DCS? Do you know how to apply diver first aide?

As a pilot, I try to gain as much "experience" as I can from mistakes made by other pilots. I want to know how to keep from making the same mistake. There is always something to learn from other folks' misfortunes.

The same applies here. Even though I will probably never make a 350 foot dive, there are still things that I can learn from this tragedy. If nothing else, it forces to me to review some of my own safety procedures and discuss/modify them with my buddies.

Don't take the attitude that "this can never happen to me - I'm not that stupid". If I don't learn something from this tragedy, then aren't I also "macho"?

Thanks for the shoulder, and please dive safe.

-dave.

Glenn, thanks for posting the article.

Dave, great words above. I think it is something that we as divers should all live by. Although our sport has some inherit dangers, we can all lessen those dangers with some common sense and common courtesy. Good points above all! I'm glad to know all of you fine people.

As we are getting ready to return to Bonaire, I am revisiting the BT board and came across this thread...something of a coincidence given the shared name---no relation, though.
I would like to agree with some of Dave Goodwin's comments above, especially as regards keeping current on safety skills and practices. As an inactive OWI, it seems to me that many divers appear to "learn it and forget it" during certification. It is well worth while to practice and/or review those skills and procedures occasionally.
With reference to other comments above, also---from Peggy Wages and Mike Endrizzi---perhaps we need to speak up more when we see unsafe practices. It may take something extra to let yourself be called a fathead (or Yankee, or whatever), but it just may lead to a change in behavior that keeps someone from being hurt.
Thanks for the opportunity to preach.

Robert, thanks for checking in. I know that I thought the same thing when I saw the post (about relation to you)...have a good trip!

I would like to add, as a victim advocate, that sometimes people just like to "talk" about things like this. It's a sort of debriefing, if you will. This incident/accident has affected every one of us in one way or another. We can talk to our friends at work, or our family, but no one understands like a fellow diver. Sometimes we just need to understand our feelings, and why we feel a certain way. I know this senseless tragedy has affected me and it's nice that others out there understand. Reality is that these things happen, and we need to make sure that it never happens to us. Once again, all you divers out there --- please be careful and safe.

And thank you to Glen for posting the article.

I can't image anyone doing a 350 ft. dive on air. That is what "Trimix" is for but with certified training. I have done air dives to 211 ft. but took over a week of dives to work up to that point. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless with properly trainned people. These were no tech divers, they didn't have the proper equipment for that type of dive, not enough gases; not enough backup equipment; and not enough training to know the difference. I have dived with many divemasters and I found some to be less than capable or knowledgible to put my life in their hands. Don't trust anyone with your life but YOU. Technical training is very stressful to the whole body and not for annual vacationneers. People who push their limits will suffer in some way, whether its pulled muscles, shortage of breath or having a heart attack. Training and daily exercise is the only way to prepare for a tech diving along with knowing your limits and ALWAYS having a way out with a backup system. Divers, who tech dive, should have yearly physicals with a dive doctor. Anyone can put on doubles, grab a reel and clip on a single 80 but it takes much more than that to do a tech deep dive safely. There's more paper/computer work to do than what the dives take to complete. Plan; Plan; Plan...

No one should die while diving.
Dive Safe, jimini

Hey Jim,

Well said.

These guys just don't get it. You should see the e-mail flames I have gotten from one of the bozos. Two e-mials, and more to follow I'm sure.

Not sure you remember me, Jim. I live in Earlville and I have met you once or twice through Mick. He was on the island when this happened also.

-dave.

I have resisted posting in this thread until now. Dave am I to understand that one of the #*%king morons that survived is still trying to justify what they had done?

"Darwin at work" sometimes he just doesn't work fast enough!

They will all "join" their friend if they keep doing what they have done in the past.

I guess I can now also expect to have contact with one the surviving morons?

If they would like to read about how to do these types of dives correctly they could have just pulled up one of these 2 threads.

The Anchors of Red Slave

Bonaire's Deep Wall

Or the upcoming Expedition Red Slave where the mystery of what lies at the end of the chains is revealed and yes we have pictures.

As a TDI Instructor Trainer and Advanced Tri-mix Instructor with over 200 dives below 200ft all of these dives with at least one other team member for close to 500 man\woman dives below 200ft I do believe I can speak from experience.

These guys were "Idiots waiting for a bad accident to happen to themselves". Those of us here on Bonaire that have discussed this ALL agree that we hope they never come back to Bonaire unless they change their attitude.

How you doing Jim?

Walt,

Although I have never meat you, your reputation speaks for itself. Based on what I know of you, I agree that you are in a position to speak to some authority on this subject.

One of the guys in the group has sent me two flame e-mails trying to justify what they do and convince me that I'm the idiot not them. Since they have "1000s of dives" they must be better and safer than me, even though they have no idea of my experience or qualification level..... I do not base safety on the number of dives one has made. Safety is a frame of mind and an attitude - not another page in your dive log.

He actually wants to come to Illinois (from Georgia) and settle this thing "Man to man".... typical of arrogance. When they are unable to justify their actions with intellect, experience, or common sense, they resort to violence.

Of course, in his opinion, I am wrong. We are all wrong, even you Walt. Don't you people realize that safety is for the other guy! Rules and procedures don't apply to these bozos. Rules are for the "sheep" - not the experienced, macho divers that they are!

I gave him my address. That's another thing about arrogance....... they expect you to back down and cower in their presence. The last thing he expected was for me to tell him where I lived. Nothing will come of it, I'm sure. Arrogance doesn't like to be confronted with common sense....

If anyone would like to see the e-mail(s) he sent me, send me a private request and I'd be glad to share. Don't want to post it on the board.

Happy Holidays,

-dave.

The thing that amazes me, is that it isn't just "rules", it's science. NO-ones body can handle 350 feet on air safely - it ain't a matter of machismo, it's oxygen and nitrogen at unsafe levels. Sheesh.

Well put Susan. The laws of physics do apply to ALL of us.

They broke\"fought the law and the law WON"!

Dave, I'm sure I can get the gist of the emails you have received from those bozos' that have lower IQ's than the island's donkeys. Early in my diving career I did one dive to 185 feet on air with an instructor and decided there is nothing down there interesting enough to justify the boring decompression stops. I don't have to prove how 'macha' I am. Diving has enough freaky things that can happen if you get careless, much less than if you deliberately do something completely stupid and suicidal. Those idiots were pure dumb lucky that it wasn't 4 out of 4 that got body bagged back to the mainland.

Okay, just got e-mail number 4 from my "buddy"....

This one said that he wanted to meet in a nuetral place to rumble, and that I can't be very smart because I'm employed by a large company, and I don't own a dive shop. Linnea had it right with the whole lower IQ thing. For the most part, his e-mails are just a stream of ramblings.... and sometimes hard to make out. But this last one was pretty clear :-)

I responded and basically asked him why everyone who has commented on this incident believe they were taking extreme risks and were disregarding safety. I asked him how the entire world was wrong but he and his buddies were right. Of course, I then apologized for cluttering his mind with reason and logic - two things that he doesn't comprehend very well.

Anyway, I'm sure there's more to come. It's kind of fun, in a sick sort of way. I only respond - I do not instigate. If he quite e-mailing me, I will quit responding.

Take care.

-dave.

Hi Dave of course I remember you. What the heck you're only ten miles north of me [Prairie Center]. So Mick was there in Bonaire, he wanted me to go but at that time I already made plans with Walt III for trimix course. Health reasons cancelled all my plans for that trip and I didn't get to meet anyone at BT. BUT now my health is on track and the docs gave me the go ahead to continue my tech diving. You see I practice what I preach about yearly doctor visits :>)

How are you doing Walt III? I must admit I was wondering where you were on this topic. I figured you were waiting in the bushes and just couldn't keep quite any longer. Good thing, everyone on BT knows that you know what you're talking about.

Some people will never learn and they will dive this way again ruinning everyone's vacation watching them come up belly first. Think of all the newbie divers who heard of this accident...They're probably scare to death...Divers with 1000's of dives, dying from a mistake! The mistake was diving in the first place.

It reminds me of a diving buddy who changed the dive profile at 130ft without telling me on the USS Duane. We were diving single 80's and wouldn't come up when we hit 1700psi because as he later told me "this was the first time I dove on the Duane and I wanted to see the whole ship". Came up on the stern line instead of the bow line. Our divemaster and captain was ticked to say the least. I didn't blame them one bit. We were supposed to go down on the bow and return on the bowline... I just couldn't leave him on the ship by himself just in case of trouble. So I stuck with him! That was the last buddy dive with him; now I ALWAYS carry a pony at all times. I never leave the surface without one. As someone said "cover your own ass".

I think some people from Georgia are called 'rednecks'. Seems these are them. Can't remember whether the term 'rednecks' is because they have spent too much time in the sun (would fit here) or just don't wash off the red Georgia clay. :–)

Just be happy we don't have to live (or dive!!) with them.

Let 'em go, Dave, even if they do write again.

We need Mimi Greenburg to write a note to these guys....sad commentary, isn't it? Carole

Amen Carole. All of us, dive safe, and a to all a happy, healthy 2003!!

My last two cents to put in this message topic is, that in my mind, the guy was narc beyond belief and probably hit the wrong button on his BCD and kept inflating instead of deflating thinking his BCD malfunction causing him to surface without stopping... Simple enough to do when one is confused..Too bad someone passed away...RIP
jimini

Well folks, I agree with Glen, "let them go"...
but I just can't yet.....something in this guy's latest e-mail is really bugging me.

Jake may edit or delete this, but I have to do it.

My 16 year old daughter was flirting with one of the local divemasters at SandDollar. He is 20 years old and he was flirting back. I was keeping a VERY good eye on this.

Somehow the guy sending me e-mails knew about this. Apparently, he was trying real hard to get under my skin with the following remark. In one of his e-mails he said that I "...should keep my daughter from dating black divemasters...."

I can't tell you how mad I was at this statement! The color of this person's skin had no impact on my concern. I did not need my 16 year old daughter getting "involved" with a 20 year old "hunk" from Bonaire.

But the guy sending me e-mail a made point to say "black" divemaster - not just "divemaster".

I think this points out some of thier (his) views on life.

And to go a step further..... what does this have to do with the topic? Why did he bring it up at all?? Again, just shows their state of mind - grasping at staws.

Glen: I do not instigate these e-mails... I only respond. I would be better off just quitting, but I have to respond when he sends an e-mail.

Thanks for all of your support.

-dave.

Dave,

Re his 'black' reference and your daughter: as I said, 'redneck'.

I understood that you were only responding; I was saying, don't bother to do that. He just may be enjoying 'drawing' you. Likely he will be most aggravated if you ignore him. And you will have a happier Christmas and New Year. :–)

If you are referring to ET, he looks 20 but acctually is 28...the main reason to stay away from 16 year olds!!!!

Dave,

My suggestion is that you not respond to his e-mails anymore. Sometimes, when someone is on the edge, this only feeds him and reinforces his behavior. There was a friend I had who was being harassed by e-mail. It just got worse and worse. She stopped responding, and it stopped.

Mary & Glen: You are both correct. I am finished..... thanks for the convincing.

Micheal: That is unbelievable! 28?? Well, I'll be watching him next time we are on Bonaire. I'm sure we'll stay at the SandDollar and run into him. Thanks for the heads up......

Happy Holidays all.

-dave.

When I took a Safe Driving course a couple of years ago (I didn't HAVE to, I've never had an accident or even a ticket, but wanted to be a better driver, and get 10% off the insurance), the instructor was very adamant about "accidents".

He said there are VERY few accidents on the road: INCIDENTS are caused by bad judgement, bad/poorly/not serviced equipment, or inappropriate behavior (which is probably the same as bad judgment anyway).

I think that's true in many other areas.

I've not felt drawn to comment on this topic before, but it does sadden me, and cautions me to not be arrogant. I pray we all learn from it.

Yikes. I'm from Georgia. Don't believe it, we're not all in the "redneck" category! Of course, there ARE some of those folks hanging around in my family tree (LOL).

Peggy

This is really turning out to be a wonderful thread. As just an OW diver with <50 logged descents, it reinforces all that I practice whenever I dive.

I must confess that, as between me and my buddy, I am the more "macho" diver of the two of us. But at the same time, I am also avidly wary of the potential consequences of believing that the rules are just loose general ideas that can be transgressed with impunity as long as you deem yourself worthy.

I'll bet that our intrepid group of deep-dive dumb___es honestly believed that doing a few quick calculations to come up with a +100m air-only dive profile did not really put them at great risk of crossing into the great beyond. I, too, recall my dive instructor's comments about how dive tables are engineered for a wide margin of error - a highly conservative set of diving rules is intended to maximize safety for the widest possible range of people.

But who wants to drive laps at Indianapolis Speedway going just 55mph? There is inherent excitement in testing the limits - whether it be speed, time, depth, altitude, whatever. Can a diver with less than 30 logged dives do a multi-level dive profile with a max depth of 100ft, penetrate a wreck, and on the same dive have a dive time of over an hour on just 1 tank of plain air? Yes, it can be done, even as a no-deco (safety-stop only) dive. Should he dare do it? That depends. With good planning, reliable and redundant equipment, a trustworthy buddy and an experienced guide or divemaster, the risk becomes quite manageable. Indeed, if one takes an AOW course and chooses the wreck-diving module, it may in fact be on the normal agenda. On the other hand, if it is the first dive of spring-break vacation with a college freshman roommate who hasn't dived since being certified two years ago, using borrowed gear that hasn't been recently maintained... it's a disaster waiting to happen. Same dive; different risk level.

In his Instructions for Life in the New Millenium, the Dalai Lama advises "Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." The key word in this guidance is "properly." Some of us take the time to learn and practice ALL of the rules of our sport so that we can, in fact, break them PROPERLY. Recreational diving is meant to be practiced a entirely no-deco, yet we are trained on how to do a proper deco profile so that "if" we find ourselves exposed to the higher level of risk that comes with greater depth we can better manage it by applying the right principles. By comparison, the rules of good automobile driving shun skidding and sliding; yet knowing how to control those conditions is part of being trained to drive safely. Those who are highly skilled - like high-performance race drivers - refine their skills to be able to safely drive in ways that would be patently dangerous - and thus "against the rules" for less experienced drivers.

As another poster in this thread aptly noted, what happened to the late Mr. Deal may indeed be a case Darwin's theory at work, or at least a variation upon it. Those who incompetently manage the risks they take perish; those who actively control their risk of death survive. Simply breaking the rules often leads to disaster. These fellows apparently intended to break the usual rules; their primary error was that they had not learned them well enough to break them properly.

So, given the various accounts of the details that have already surfaced in this thread, let's count the mistakes Mr. Deal's group made; knowing (from Walt III's experience, as an excellent example) that 350 ft. dives are in fact quite possible, and can even be done with relative safety:

1. Wrong gear. Redundancy is worth mentioning twice. At the end of my last trip to Bonaire my buddy and I came home with one failed air gauge, one failing depth gauge, and two perfectly happy and healthy divers. On a 300ft dive (with virtually no air reserves in the plan, as in the case at hand), what can you possibly do if one diver's sole 1st stage fails at the max depth of the profile?

2. Wrong gas. Trimix is not that much more expensive than air or nitrox, in the great scheme of things... Perhaps it was not available because no dive shop would hand it out to anyone lacking proper training and experience to use it?

3. Wrong math. 11 minutes BT at 300+ft with 88 minutes of deco stops, plus time to descend and safely ascend, all on a total of just 3 tanks of plain air for each diver? What is the signal for "out of air"!

4. Wrong crew. Where was the experienced local divemaster for this radical (as opposed to conservative) dive? It's like climbing Everest without a Sherpa.

5. Wrong attitude. Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason. It blinds you to hazards and inflates your self-assessment of skill and ability.

6. Wrong buddies. A cardinal rule of safe diving - and pretty much any potentially dangerous sport - is to never leave your buddy alone. Certainly all of the divers in the group were at a depth of 200 or more feet at some point during an ascent phase of their plan. Even with my sparse experience, I have on at least one occassion chased my buddy as she accidentally shot up from 65 to 35 feet (she had mask problems and had no idea she was rising so fast). I grabbed her by the fins and got her under control before letting her get into real danger. Had I just let her bob up into the <30ft range, who knows what might have happened. Let's assume that it is true that Mr. Deal "shot by" a deco-stop point. Even the most basic open-water certification course includes practicing a host of emergency ascent methods. Sure, it would have caused both divers to be locked out of making any more dives for a few days, but if any member of this group had got ahold of Mr. Deal and got his too-rapid ascent under control while he was still at 50 or more feet (or even 30 - since the most dangerous part of any ascent is the last 10 meters), perhaps he would not have died. Assuming the opposite is what happened (the stories conflict), a buddy suddenly beginning to sink too deep should only have required the committment of reserve gas and the patience for extra deco time by one of the group to scurry down to grab him. A case of DCS is a fate that is NOT worse than death - or the death of a friend - at least by my reckoning.

Given all of the mistakes that his group made, the clear conclusion is that Mr. Deal should not have been diving with these "buddies" at all. It is sad that he either never realized this or only understood it too late.

-LS

Leif,

You have some facts wrong.

1. If they were trained to use Trimix, it hasn't been mentioned. And without proper training, no reputable shop will supply it.

2. This isn't a matter of managing risks, it's a matter of understanding the science. Science tells us that oxygen toxicity resulting in seizures *may* occur when the oxygen partial pressure goes above 1.4 ata, and is almost certain above 1.6 ata.

The Oxygen Partial Pressure formula is

D + 33 383
------ X O2%, so ----- X .21 = 2.43
33
33

A depth of 350 feet yields an O2 PP of 2.43
That doesn't define risk, it's certainty.

well, that didn't format well...
It should be (D+33 over 33) divided by O2%
or (383 over 33) divided by .21

ack
TIMES O2%
TIMES .21

Leif,
I have been diving for over 30 years, worked as a Master Instructor and I find your approach to be deeply troubling.

First, there are no rules in diving. You are free to do as you please. Comparing diving to driving on the indianapolis speedway is absurd. If you want a more reasonable comparison, deep diving on air is more like going for a slow walk on the speedway during a race while drunk. Once you put yourself in this situation, you are no longer in control.

Driving over 55 on the speedway with training and knowledge proves a great deal about you. Diving past the limits of a gas mixture proves nothing positive at all. It is precisely as macho as russian roulette, but proves nothing about the participants ... so why spoil the effect with any misbegotten "Preparation". It would be stylish to wear an armani suit to a round of russian roulette but does it really change the character of the event?

Buddies have nothing to do with this kind of diving. They are off wandering amongst the whizzing traffic and they are just as looped as you are. Hopefully they will not get killed attempting to save you. Buddies are part of the illusion of preparation for something that should not be done.

This kind of diving is most especially selfish because it consumes the resources of Bonaire that might be available for others. I'll bet when the Dalai Lama "breaks rules" he does it in a way that does not consume others resources. I wonder who paid the bill for these jerks escapade? That money could have been used for medical care for the people of Bonaire.

As a diver exceeds 220 feet, they exceed Oxygen toxicity limits for air (and they exceed shallower if there were prior dives in 24 hours). Thus, as the diver drops deeper beyond that limit their chances of having a seizure go up steadily. We do not realize how "wasted", to borrow a sixties term, we are and that's even at 100 feet. None of the queues of walking, talking or fine motor coordination are there. If you ever do real wreck penetration, teach a course or salvage something from depth, you will realize that even at "reasonable" depths, you are very compromised.

I might add that, for you, as a beginner, your ability and confidence WILL BE ERODED by the effects of even 100 feet if you become challenged in any way (such as penetrating a wreck) you need the experience of many dives to have the confidence that will sustain you during more complex circumstances while deep. There are indeed added skills needed to plan a dive so challenges do not occur. If you are "macho" as you say, do it right by methodically building skill and knowledge and not by simply exceeding the limits of challenge. Narcosis is not simply a kind of rapturous foolishness. It most often presents as blind psychotic paranoia (no exageration) and a complete collapse of judgement and all human nuance.

The ocean is very deep and no matter how lucky someone might be in exceeding safe diving limits, that does not predict how lucky the next guy will be or that guys next event. One can be proud of running a marathon or climbing a mountain or driving skillfully around a race track. These activities do test skill and fitness. Diving deep involves only gravity.

The issue is that these people exceeded the limits for their mixture (air). If they wanted to undertake these depths, then they should have taken a good mixed gas course AND they should have had a reason for going to the depth (such as a wreck)

I should say... an O2 PP of 1.6 really does not make a seizure a certainty, but puts the risk of one pretty high. Sorry.

Still, O2 PP of 2.43 ata is way too much.

Hmmmm, yes, Geoffrey, I've been wondering about the health care expenses for this sort of thing...good point about how resources for Bonairians (sp?) may be better used than for unfortunate apparent tourist (ego?)trips....

Excellent post Geoffry. I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one a little bit troubled by Lief's post.

IMHO, attitide is a huge part of this sport. If you have the wrong attiutude, you end up having accidents. There is no room for 'machoism' in any form.

Darryl

Right Darryl, it's all about Attitude!
Doing a risky sport like diving ask from you that you think twice about what your doing.

Agree with Geoffry that there are no rules in diving, only the rules of nature (where the "guidelines" for diving are build on, like max depth on air, nitrox etc.)

Like the guys who did this dramatic dive, they were/are probably really good trained and had a lot experience, but NO-ONE can defeat the rules of nature!
and they did try that... (The mail's Dave got from them say's enough about their attitudes)

I also compete in Motorcycle-Roadracing in the Netherlands during the summer, which is also about attitude and "knowing" the rules of nature.
(When you go to fast into a bend, your exceed some force rules and will certainly crash out!)
And with crashing a motorracer you get mostly a damaged bike and some bruises, with diving it can be a lot more dramatic...

Hi Marco,
I don't think its fair to call diving a risky sport. In fact, I think its extremely safe if done properly. Of course, if not done properly its dangerous, but you could say that about just about any sport - hockey without a helmet (or cup ), man even bowling could be dangerous - those balls are heavy .

Even bike racing is actually quite safe - if you're wearing the proper gear. But what if you were to race in shorts? ANY accident would be a serious problem. Its the same way with diving - if you're not properly equiped and trained it becomes dangerous.

Darryl

I'm a recreational diver, but enjoy reading and understanding the technical aspects of the sport.

I'd be interested in hearing what the dive plan for the failed 1000 Steps dive was. The max depth, timing, stops, gas switches, etc.

Thanks to Susan above for pointing out that oxygen toxicity isn't a certainty at these elevated pp02 levels. There are people who have done deep air dives and lived to tell about it. Today deep air is considered dangerous and foolish because of the availability of technical training and helium gas for safe deep dives. But in the "bad old days" there were those who did deep air dives for the challenge of doing them.

I've included a link below to the aquacorps archives. Take a look at the articles under "wah-wah". The Bob Raimo story will give you chills.

http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/AQUAcorps/contents.htm

Yepp Darryl, All sport one can participate in has a risk to it. Even going shopping in the city will have some risk to it (crossing streets) J
When done properly, (good planning etc.) diving will be pretty save! ("Risky" is a to big word)
What i meant about divingrisk is that with all the proper planning we are still entering a hostile environment to the human body (we're not made for it).

JeffW, chills don't even begin to describe it. If these guys want to push the envelope that far out, that's their business -- personally, I think they're nuts, but I'm no thrill-seeker. I just hope their families understand when something goes wrong and they don't come back...

Faith

Dave,

I know this happened back in Dec. 02, I'm just reading about it. But it's still stupid. I'm a scuba instructor in Georgia and this is the very thing that we harp on in class. We have a group of individuals that we call the DDSS team, (Don't Do Stupid Stuff or Sh--). And that's all that is stupid!!! Does anyone know what dive shop they were out of or were they with a group from a Dive Shop? We teach that Diving should be FUN not STUPID and put each other at risk. Lord, help them!