Lord forbid I slip, but is it ok to wear gloves only during my entries & exits? Knock on wood...

If the Marine Park catch you they will confiscate your dive gear. Thousands of divers enter and exit these sites every year. Just become part of that number. You will be fine... Ron

Think I'll keep my gear... lol, thanks Ron :-)

nooooooooooo


having said that, I keep 1 gardeners glove in my pocket on liveaboards for holding onto(in currents) the mooring lines.

never, never, never on Bonaire........did I say never?!

OOOOHHHH NOOO the "G" word....YIKES !!

What do the Marine Park enforcers look like?
In a mere three Bonaire trips, I don't think I've seen one...

why should 'they' look like anything?? is it your game to break our reef protection laws?? if caught it is very serious .. dive on .. ? no .. just to destroy .. then move on to another island ..

Tom...I saw them quite a bit on my last trip. Even had our tags checked while gearing up at Windsock. Very nice people who love the Bonaire reefs.

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quote:

If the Marine Park catch you they will confiscate your dive gear.

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Eddie, what it would take for you to understand the difference between an accidental and an intentional violation?

Truck going into the water: accident (unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case please take it to the authorities).

Diver going into the water with gloves: intentional violation.

It's being months since the accident and if the investigation had turned up any shred of malicious acts, we would know by now. Are you not convinced that it was an accident? Or are you not satisfied that the driver was not sufficiently punished for the accident?

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quote:

Diver going into the water with gloves: intentional violation

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eddie

then you were not paying attention

I heard the truck driver at Karpata got fined because he was wearing gloves...

Let's get past the Karpata mishap...PLEASE and THANK-YOU !

Please stay on topic or this will be moved to CC

Eddie, prior to their first dive in Bonaire, divers go through mandatory orientation. At that orientation they are informed that no gloves are allowed. Thus if a diver enters the water with gloves, it means that either the diver was not paying attention to the orientation or that the dive shop was not providing a thorough orientation.

I am not aware of any dive shops that are not providing a thorough orientation. Are you?

Also, since you have not answered my question about you knowing any facts that would indicate otherwise, then you do recognize the Karpata incident as an accident.

Sorry Freddie, didn't see your message. But I am on topic (word "gloves" appears twice in my comment!!!).

Tom S,

I understand your question as to what the Marine Park workers look like. I do not think you were asking what they look like so you run off and hide your gloves.

It still amazes me that people can ask questions in these forums and then get haranged.

Just answer the **** question if you know the answer and keep the opinions about the question to yourself.

Sorry,
Tree

I was pondering a smart-*** reply involving my u/w gloves along with my hammer and chisel that I use to chop off whole brain corals with.

But in reality, daily presence of patrolling BMP officials might lessen dive vehicle break-ins a bit as well, so that would be a good thing.

do you know what "they " look like Will?

Didn't know about that "G" word Michelle... LOL

It was a dusk dive & I was late getting back & slipped a bit. Didn't go down thank goodness, but always wondered about the glove thing and thought I'd ask...

I love diving and hope to share that passion with my grandkids someday. That will only happen if WE ALL understand and take measures to protect this precious resource.

I would "never, never, never on Bonaire (or elsewhere touch the reef)........did I say never?!" I love your passion Brenda, maybe we'll be on island & catch a dive sometime? :-)

"I heard the truck driver at Karpata got fined because he was wearing gloves..." Ronald, you are the man!!! way too funny

Hi Freddie :-) tks for your good works.

Take care all,
Dani D

I only wish the passion and effort expended on glove-wearers could be be transferred to those who pollute. My guess is it would make a much bigger positive effect on the reef!

Mel are you talking about divers who pollute or other pollution in general (eg, sewage sipage etc)?

I don't think the reef cares.

(Message edited by tursiops on July 27, 2009)

I understand but my followup question would have been about divers polluting and how? I think I am pretty conscientious myself but perhaps we all behave in ways that we may not perceive as polluting. Just curious about what we can do as divers if we are polluting the reef without knowing it.

I don't think individual divers do anything to pollute, let's be realistic.

Now if you told me that Buddy Dive Resort discharges all their sewage through a 6" pipe onto the reef, well then, that's a different matter...

I do not think divers are the big problem, other than their activities ashore....like "#1 and #2" and what the resorts do with it. If there were no divers at all on Bonaire, but the same tourist volume was replaced (for example) with casino fans, I suspect the reefs would continue to degrade at the same rate.

The issue is: is the problem the number of divers, or is the problem the number of people? What concerns me is the focus on minor things like gloves, rather than the major thing which is pollution.

Fair enough Mel. It makes sense and I agree, though being a motivated devil's advocate, I might raise the broken windows theory to support the enforcement of the glove ban.

(Message edited by lgreco on July 27, 2009)

Swimmers' Sunscreen Killing Off Coral

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080129-sunscreen-coral.html

http://www.google.com/products?q=reef+safe+sunscreen&hl=en&aq=f

Leo, I'm not compelled that the broken windows theory is relevant here. Maybe a better analogy is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic....the BIG problem is looming, why are we focusing on the small things? It is like a ticking bomb in the
building that has the broken windows; why are we fixing the windows?

My problem with being technically trained is that I look for the size of effects and focus on the big effects. I do not subscribe to the "every little bit helps" approach, if the accumulated effect of all the little bits has no significant impact. Let's suppose no Bonaire diver ever touches the reef again, or stirs up sand on the sponges, or pees in their wetsuit, or scares a seahorse or frogfish; will the reefs survive? I think not.

Mel, from a pure technical perspective I recognize your point and agree with it. The broken windows theory, however, introduces a social aspect into an otherwise technical problem. We (divers, residents of Bonaire, and others) are not machines. We function in a community/social nexus, observing behaviors of others and adopting our behavior accordingly.

Now, regarding the big problems in Bonaire, I assume that one of them is the sewage treatment. I understand that a sewage treatment facility is being funded by the EU, with completion projected in 2014. I also understand that there are objections about the project regarding both the timing (too late) and the scope (too limited coverage). But it's a beginning (which may or may not reverse the damage underway).

What else can be done, realistically? Given Bonaire's limited resources and also our society's priorities (which are not the most environmentally friendly), this may be as good as it gets.

Freddie: gloves, gloves, gloves, gloves, gloves, gloves

(Message edited by lgreco on July 27, 2009)

Leo, often folks agree on the problem but do not agree on the solution. It worries me in this case that maybe there is not even agreement on the problem.

Let's suppose the sewage treatment were not available until 2020. Do we agree that is too late? How about 2018? How about 2012?

What if the sewage treatment were in place TODAY? Would that reverse the reef's decline, or only halt it?

To stay on topic, maybe the problem is kid gloves where boxing gloves are needed...

Maybe some Dutch environmental minister needs to go diving on Bonaire? Preferably one who was there 10 years ago so can see the decline?

Maybe some science group needs to make a strong statement?

Maybe the constant quoting of ancient studies about how pristine the Bonaire reefs are need to be challenged?

Maybe the attitude that Bonaire's reefs are not declining as fast as the reefs elsewhere needs to be challenged?

Maybe I need to shut up....

Mel, I'll put a check mark on every one of your maybe's except for the last one.

The problem is that if all your maybes (except the last one) become reality, will it be too late? Will a dutch minister, after diving to see the damage for himself/herself, decide accelerate the sewage plant?

And if so, will that help? Will it halt or reverse the global problems of warmer and more acidic oceans?

Mel, I became a downright pessimist about the environment after a few visits in Eastern Europe when the Warsaw Pact was still in tact (hey, it rhymes!). I dread to think what a visit to China's industrial areas would do to my attitude ...

(Message edited by lgreco on July 27, 2009)

Krispi,

No, I do not know what "they" look like.

I would have answered Tom if I did and I surely would not have implied that he was wanting to avoid "them" so he could break the rules.

A BMP official not in uniform will never take my gear.

rest easy eddie...they do wear uniforms. not exactly a cross between mohamar qaddafi and michael jackson but they do have recognizable uniforms and patrol in a stinapa truck. they've stopped us once or twice after dives. they asked to see our tags, asked our opinion of the dive, where we were staying, how we liked it, etc. very pleasant experience.

Eddie do you just talk big because Bonaire is not the US, or would you be just as cavalier with stateside plain-clothed law enforcement officers?

Well stated, Eddie.
Here, have another whiskey sour...