By jason thomas on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 7:28 pm: |
A friend just got back and said this is the norm at habitat now. I wonder if other resorts will follow?
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By Rio on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 8:44 pm: |
Jason if you stay there do you have to pay as well?
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By Ernie Bauer on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 9:53 pm: |
I don’t think you have to pay if you’re a quest.
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By Rog & Karen Huff on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 11:05 pm: |
Jason & Ernie...we also noticed the $5.00 fee to dive there...instead we went next door to Lions Den where they welcomed us to dive and we dove north up to Capt. Don's...did the same dive and it didn't cost us...we also had many fabulous lunches at Lions Den...Happy diving, Rog & Karen
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By Mike Dunn on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 11:11 pm: |
I did the same. Lion's Dive was very welcoming and their restaurant is great!
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By Meryl Virga on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 11:15 pm: |
Yeah we were upset at this...not diving freedom...we brought all our stuff...just wanted to dive in........ luckily we scraped up some gilders to pay...
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By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 8:12 am: |
Capt. Don's does not charge their guests to dive there. Also, there's a lot of people shuffling in and out of the locker/dock area- what would prevent you from just walking down to the dock and diving in? Seems separating guests from non-guests would be a difficult task.
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By Jack Chalk on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:03 am: |
Dear All,
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By Jeff Farris on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:23 am: |
Jack a comment and a question.
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By Ernie Bauer on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:38 am: |
Jack,
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By Jack Chalk on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 11:48 am: |
Dear Jeff and Ernie,
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By Walt III on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 11:49 am: |
It is my understanding that several other Hotels are charging to use their amenity's i.e. beaches, chairs and towels so why is it not fair to charge for the use of the Pier, showers and rinse tanks at Habitat. Hotels will not let non guests use their pools. Why should those that have not paid for the use of something think they should get it for free?
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By Renee Bayes on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 12:17 pm: |
I understand the rationale, but I still disagree with the practice.
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By Jeff Farris on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:00 pm: |
Just to put another perspective on this issue, consider that on most other islands in Caribbean, if you showed up on a resort's dock with a tank from a different operator, you would be shown the way out or the way to the dive shop where you would have to rent one of their tanks.
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By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:30 pm: |
...not diving freedom...
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By sherry baker on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:48 pm: |
since you can enter the reef at capt don's from another location on site besides the dock for free, i really dont see an issue. after all, the goal is to get into the water and enjoy the dive.
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By sherry baker on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:50 pm: |
also, i would think it is one thing for someone to use another place's dock for entry and exit, but to think they should use any facility-such as shower, lockers, dunk tanks or showers for free is just inconciderate.
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By Martin de Weger on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:53 pm: |
Jason, I think the sentence was diving freedom yes and diving free no. I think Habitat has every right to charge a small fee. Most shops, not located on Bonaire, would not even consider letting you do your dives for free from privat proporty. Most hotels and diveshops I've seen in the caribbean and in Europe would not let non-guests stay on their beaches and dive from their piers and beaches. If they would let you do it, it costs a lot more than $ 5,00. It's a policy wheater you like it or not.
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By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 2:06 pm: |
good point-
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By Steve Jevon on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 2:21 pm: |
It's difficult for me to understand the confusion over what is public and what is private property.
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By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 3:15 pm: |
I thought Jack was pretty clear. The staff at Capt. Don's is not trying to discourage anyone. You are more than welcome to enter there using the beach, which is just as easy as giant-striding off the pier. If you choose to use the pier or fresh-water facilities, you pay on the honor system. Even if the rest of the resorts switched to the fee you are so outraged over, there are so many non-resort related shore-diving sites available on Bonaire that if you chose not to pay, you'd still have a great selection to choose from.
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By Alan & Joan Zale on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 3:43 pm: |
FYI: Last time we were in Grand Cayman I recall the policy being that if you did a shore dive from another resort you were expected to rent your tank from that resort.
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By Robert Deal on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 3:59 pm: |
I throw my vote with Jack and with Steve Jevon. I think it is entirely appropriate for any privately owned facility to charge a fee---especially a nominal fee--- for the use of infastructure which is built and maintained with private money. Then again, I have this irrational belief in a free market. Those who disagree with the policies of Capt. Don's or the Plaza can choose to take their business elsewhere. As Glenn points out, there are a lot of other great shore divesites have free entry.
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By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 4:34 pm: |
Isn't it amazing how sometimes people read perfectly intelligible sentences and interpret them completely wrong? As Glenn said, anyone who wants to dive in front of Captain Don's still can, if they use the beach instead of the dock.
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By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 4:37 pm: |
Also I might add: Tsk tsking Captain Don is silly - he has very little to do with the Habitat now.
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By John Cowperthwaite on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 4:40 pm: |
Wow, such the hotbed of debate. Another slant good or bad, is I agree with both sides sort of. I haven't stayed at the Plaza or Habitat, and probably won't because I like a different type of resort; however, I dive both of those sites each time I come to Bonaire.
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By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 5:16 pm: |
John,
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By Geoffrey Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 5:45 pm: |
There is also a safety issue at Capt. Dons dock which is another reason for people to check in. All guests are briefed on how to head to the reef without getting in the way of the dive boats.
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By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 6:54 pm: |
John, your point about "the pier, it wasn't put in so us shore divers could us it. It's their for boat access primarly..." is only true for the large pier, or "Papa Dock". The smaller "Baby Dock" to the right of it was specifically put in for shore divers to giant-stride off of. No one, guest or non-guest, is allowed to use Papa Dock for a shore dive for safety reasons.
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By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 7:12 pm: |
Gooood job everyone. My agro post was to get some people typing. I didnt feel like this thread was getting the attention and serious response it deserves. John Cowperthwaite you should run for Gov. of Colo. because that was pure poetry. Everyone should read it to get a great outline on making a point... and being right. Yes, 5.00 is too much and not very realistic, but if I only use the dock for entry exit do I still have to pay?
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By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 8:24 pm: |
Jason,
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By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 8:32 pm: |
Well, there you have it folks. Jason just admitted to being a troll. You can disregard any future posts by him.
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By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 9:39 pm: |
"Finally, though the docks may be completed, it wouldn't surprise me that they aren't completely paid for; and even if they are, there's upkeep. Why shouldn't people who don't contribute to the total income of the Habitat pitch in towards that?"
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By Steve Jevon on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:15 pm: |
I'm enjoying this, let me ask another question:
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By DARLENE ELLIS on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:47 pm: |
Guys! Can we just play nice. Jake and Linda have been away on vacation and are probably just getting back to reading the board. They do us such a kind service by providing this for our pleasure, I would hate for them to be seeing this thread just as they come back and start entering reality again!
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By Carole Baker on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 12:12 am: |
Amen, Darlene! If it is private property...it is their perrogative (sp?) to charge this nominal fee. If one were to use their facilities (rinse tanks, showers, etc, etc) then I see nothing wrong with charging to do so. As much as I disagree with the policy here in New Jersey...if you want to park your butt down on the sand of the beaches here it will cost you more than $5.00 per day!! That includes nothing except crowds, sand and hopefully clear waters. No questions and no discussions...pay the fee or don't utilize the facility/beaches, etc. I don't care for this system at all, but it is a fact of life here. "They" claim the revenue is needed to keep the beaches patrolled, lifeguards and cleaned, etc. and that the year-round residents property taxes cannot and should not foot the bill for the day trippers or seasonal beach pass users.
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By DARLENE ELLIS on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 8:29 am: |
Carole, Jake and Linda should be back in NH by now because we have the awesome NH BBQ tomorrow that they are attending and I am looking forward to! I do not know when they actually return to Bonaire but I suspect it will be soon!
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By Jack Chalk on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 9:10 am: |
To All Who Commented On This Subject,
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By Susan Feldman on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 10:20 am: |
Jack,
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By JIM KENNEDY on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 11:03 am: |
Being that I never been to Bonaire may I add something to this conversation. Maybe the reason divers take other divers lockers is because they feel they need to lock their equipment up while they attend the bar or eatery. Cerrtainly if there is a problem with not having enough lockers for the regular guests of the diveshop than more lockers should be installed for those divers that paid for those services. I understand all this takes money and time, which in most places, there isn't enough of. Money can come from the five dollars fee of course but what type of message is this sending to future customers? There is no free ticket to anywhere that I know of so why expect it from Bonaire. In Mexico there is a law that says the beaches are not own by anyone, everyone has the right to the beaches even on the Resorts of the Gold Coast of the western shores of Mexico. But than again, natives aren't allowed within these "resort grounds" without first paying for a room. Natives usually have their own beaches away from the tourists. It sounds to me that Bonaire is changing with these fees which may or may not be a good thing. Only time will tell if this was a proper thing to do. The diveshops business profit line will be the deciding factor and not the diver's opinion here online...
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By Steve and Sandy Oliver on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 11:17 am: |
Amen, Susan.
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By Bud Gillan on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 3:19 pm: |
Captain Jack,
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 3:34 pm: |
Having finally returned, I agree Steve :-)
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By Tom Starkweather on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 4:18 pm: |
Correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't Cargill Salt own the land on the whole south side of the island? What would happen if they decided to charge a entry fee to get access to the South. Good bye Bonaire tourism. Capt. Don's has the right to do what ever they want but to me they are on shaky ground with the 5.00 USD charges. To me they could easily post signs telling people that the locker's and rinse facilities are for guest of the property only. I believe that the vast majority of people would respect the policy. It used to be common knowledge (probaly still is with the exception of Capt Don's) That Divers could dive from other Dive facilities without charge by simply asking someone at the dive shop. It will be a sad diving day when Bonaire decides to be like other dive destinations.
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By scott and sharon barlass on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 4:55 pm: |
Tom,
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By Kay Powers on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 4:55 pm: |
Well said...Jack, Steve and Jake! Although I have never used their facilities...I'll gladly pay my $5.00. Next trip!
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By JIM KENNEDY on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 5:41 pm: |
Just to play the devil's advocate: today it's $5 for diving off the dock; tomorrow there's $6 dollars added for a locker; than the third day there's $7 dollars added per showers...I believe when one takes money in exchange for services or admission to a place than the money ball starts to roll...and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. I hope everyone carefully thinks about the repercussions this will have with tourism and the diving industry on Bonaire. When things like this happen maybe there are too many divers visiting Bonaire...I guess my first thought would be to define the real problem; is it that divers out weigh the services? Probably, Diver control? Probably, Cheating the diveshop for services? Probably. So what's the answer- more money? Probably not. Why not be totally honest with these people and tell them you're not equipped to handle these masses? That they should not dive here unless they are register guests?? Honestly is the best policy isn't it??? Remember I'm just being the devil's advocate here- don't flame me too bad!!
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By mary pequinot on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 5:54 pm: |
One thing that people often take for granted is the incredible expense of fresh water on the island. Given that, I don't think it's a bad policy, and for $5/day, it seems reasonable, if you have access to a shower and rinse tank.
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By Geoffrey Feldman on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 6:08 pm: |
Jim Kennedy... I think when you do come to Bonaire, you should let us all know where you are staying. It would be very handy to store stuff in your room during this time. I know some locals who would then have more space in their living rooms at least for that week and could hold some cool parties for everyone.
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By Susan Feldman on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 6:09 pm: |
Jim,
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By JIM KENNEDY on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 8:15 pm: |
Susan~
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 9:31 pm: |
Jim,
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By JIM KENNEDY on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 12:49 am: |
Jake~
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By jan flubacher on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 5:07 pm: |
a lot of people know that there is a nice bar and restaurant at capt. don's only because they came there for a simple shore dive. which means that they became customers, and maybe even guests at the resort only because of the dive they made there. so maybe guest-divers aren't such a plague to the habitat after all. but then again: $5,- for only using the dock and maybe some water for rinsing sounds to much to me. someone want's to earn money here. and if it is not stopped now (by boycotting or something similar) the other resorts WILL follow. if the habitat DOES NOT have LESS divers using their dock because of the fee, the others will follow!!! that's the law of the "free market" robert believes in. you as a diver paying this fee or boycotting don's by not even having a beer there after you entered the sea from aside are creating and ruling this market. so it is in your hands - do the right thing whatever that is for you, but concider influence of what you do or what you don't,
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By mary pequinot on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 6:48 pm: |
jan,
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By Susan Feldman on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 7:10 pm: |
Um Jan:
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By Carole Baker on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 7:27 pm: |
Thank you, Susan for again trying to easily explain things to those who wish to complicate matters.
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By JIM KENNEDY on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 11:00 pm: |
...WHEN DOES VILLA #6 CHARGE SIX DOLLARS TO USE THE STAIRS????
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By Carole Baker on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 11:09 pm: |
May we come help ourselves to some crops from your land? Gratis, of course? Is Mimi out there, or what? Carole
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By Carole Baker on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 11:12 pm: |
I am only joking, Jim, please do not take my posting personally...I just think the topic has been beaten to death at this point. I admire folks who are able to work the land. There are not enough people on this earth who care enough to continue to do what you do. I truly do admire you for your work. Carole
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By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 7:55 am: |
Why Jim, when they see YOU coming, of course!
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By joe chandler on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 11:29 am: |
I racall a discussion Mr. Chalk had on rec.scuba a couple years ago in which a gentleman adamantly argued that he could use Habitat tanks for free for night dives any time he wanted to. He suggested everyone do so. Said he had been doing so for years. I think that is when "Diving Freedom not diving for free" was coined.
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By jan flubacher on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 2:57 pm: |
mary - i do not expect to use facilities for free, but in my opinion that is not the issue. the issue is: when will the other resorts follow. and yes - diving is not a necessity (well i know some fellows....) but i don't see why $5,- is the right price for the use of the dock and some water.(i am aware of the bonairian water-prices)
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By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 3:33 pm: |
Jan,
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By jason thomas on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 4:15 pm: |
First, this thread has never been about the "rights" of resorts. I think we are all aware.
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By JIM KENNEDY on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 4:25 pm: |
I hope none of you take me too seriously! It's just my style to get people's blood boiling and stir the pot. And Carol with the low price of crops in the last five years you actually have been taking them for nothing ;>) But that's ok, when prices comes down they go back up- grain prices including. You know the funny thing about giving crops (sweetcorn) away is that people expect me to pick and deliver to them. I have told my co-workers (I also work full time in a factory for 16 years) to come out and pick all they want- no one showed up as of yet! And probably never will...
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By Carole Baker on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:25 pm: |
Jim, I wish I could drop by and gather up some sweet corn right now! Just love it to pieces. Thanks for offer and keep up the good work with the land...it is one of the most important occupations in the world. Carole
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By Linnea Wijkhof-Wimberly on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:32 pm: |
OK, here's a CAL divers $.02 worth.
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By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:36 pm: |
Jason,
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By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:47 pm: |
Linnea,
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By John Cowperthwaite on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:19 am: |
Ok All:
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By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 8:31 am: |
John,
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By Tom Starkweather on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 11:08 am: |
ONce again correct me if I am wrong bit I believe that there is a land easement along the complete shoreline of Bonaire. X amount of feet belong to the goverment.
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By Glen Reem on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 11:42 am: |
Another point. I understood that the dive ops which have the yellow dive site markers (La Machaca in Habitat's case) on the road were required to give some sort of access to that dive site over their property. That does not include use of facilities like lockers, rinse tanks and showers, just access. I thought that meant across docks or beach access. Perhaps Jack is saying that H is now limiting that access to Seven Body Beach.
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 12:34 pm: |
Tom,
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By Martin de Weger on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
Jake,
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 1:01 pm: |
No idea, Martin. Sorry.
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By Martin de Weger on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:15 pm: |
Jake, NP, I guess I have to find out next November. Only 11 weeks and counting....
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By jan flubacher on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:31 pm: |
thank you, john. you put in clear words what is my opinion as well. let's not compare with the north-carolina-parking-situation. let's realise that bonaire is different and luckily not U.S.-like. and let's try to keep this charme alive.
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By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:49 pm: |
Jan,
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By Renee Bayes on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:11 pm: |
It's been a while since I've been there, but couldn't Habitat gate off the locker area and only give access to the guests? I really think the "problem" is being exagerated. I may be naive, but I believe that most people are polite and only use the dock for access and do not use the rinse tanks and/or lockers.
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By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:32 pm: |
Oh please!
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:37 pm: |
Corporate greed? Figure they maybe get 5-10 non-guest divers a day. Perhaps half of those actually fess up and pay a fee - that's $25 in "profit". Hardly enough to justify your analysis. And I think my numbers are high considering Bonaire gets maybe 300-500 divers per week - and I doubt that even 10% of those not staying at Habitat attempt to dive at Habitat.
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By Renee Bayes on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:38 pm: |
It's just a suggestion, and it doesn't seem any more ridiculous than charging $5.00 to walk accross their dock!
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By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 4:21 pm: |
Renee,
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By Martin de Weger on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 4:29 pm: |
Susan,
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By JIM KENNEDY on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 4:37 pm: |
Jan~
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By James Thomas on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 9:40 pm: |
Well I think you should say most Americans, give my buddy (my wife) and I a little peice of Bonaire and we will just join the locals and let life be good. Also we have been to Bonaire nine times for a total of about 25 weeks and have never dove of the pier a Captain Dons, not any special reason just never had any reason to. I could care less what any operations charges to dive off their docks in Bonaire, we seem to find plenty of places to dive without worring about such a small thing. We be back in Feb. for three weeks, can't wait.
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By John P. Wahlig on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:28 am: |
Everyone keeps saying "and there are 50+ other site to go to". But for how long? Andrea I is already being privately developed and may not be accessible, at least is was pretty much cut off last year. When Andrea I & II are gone, then what's next?
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By Gail-the Dux on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:32 am: |
Just read your post on Americans and having to own a little bit of paradise, then checked out your profile, and seeing you're an agricultural engineer. We've got a little bit of paradise right here in West Texas, we'd sure be willing to sell you 5000 acres of prime, irrigated farm land that you could make a little money with. At this point we could move to Bonaire and truly enjoy life and have a BIG smile on our faces. Bubbles to ya'
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By Susan Feldman on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 11:18 am: |
John,
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By scott and sharon barlass on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 12:05 pm: |
John,
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By Gail Thomas on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 1:01 pm: |
The Black Durgon is a very small Inn, with only 10 rooms. I, for one, am very grateful that Al sticks to his "Guests Only" policy. When our group is there with 15 - 18 divers, there is no room for any others in the suiting up area. I would resent waiting for walk-ins to suit up and dive, to access the gear locker, etc. Besides, the reef behind the Black Durgon Inn is not a recognized marked dive site. And in my short 3 year of diving Bonaire, I have never even entertained the though of diving where I wasn't staying. That just doesn't seem right. (To me anyway)
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By Susan Feldman on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 1:23 pm: |
Gail,
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By Brian on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 2:21 pm: |
Susan & Gail
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By JIM KENNEDY on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 4:00 pm: |
Gail the Dux~
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By jan flubacher on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 5:50 pm: |
if we are talking about ca. 5 guest-divers a day, like jake said, what is this all about???
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By Susan Feldman on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:47 pm: |
Jan,
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By Glen Reem on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 10:48 am: |
And, if you read far enough back here, in a couple of places, Jason says straight out that he started this thread simply as agitation. Some people do 'agitate' easily.
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By jason thomas on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 10:57 am: |
Glen thats not what I said. Thanks for being the BT police. I started the thread to get the ball rolling on peoples opinions. Apathy sucks.
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 11:07 am: |
A reporter approaches a man on the street.
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By Marion Wilson on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 4:27 pm: |
Heaven's above! What a lot of words over such a simple principle - that being the one where if you own something, it is up to you what you do with it. Wow!
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By Kay Powers on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 6:23 pm: |
The simple solution....AGREE TO DISAGREE!
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By Leif S on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 6:23 pm: |
"Only trolls charge tolls"
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By Glenn Fager on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 9:39 pm: |
Jason,
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 9:47 pm: |
Glenn,
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By Walt III on Friday, August 9, 2002 - 7:42 am: |
The simplest solution, NO fees and allow No off property divers. Solves Habitats guests problems, and those that want something for nothing get exactly that nothing.
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By joe chandler on Friday, August 9, 2002 - 10:10 am: |
>
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By Jake Richter - NetTech on Friday, August 9, 2002 - 11:59 am: |
Wouldn't it be ironic if this particular BonaireTalk thread Jason started "to fight apathy" resulted in one or more resorts simply banning non-guest divers from using their property for access to a dive spot because they may have been contemplating a fee and have come to the conclusion that it's too much grief to take half measures? :-)
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