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Diving Bonaire: Capt Dons charges 5.00$ to dive off their dock...
Bonaire Talk: Diving Bonaire: Archives: Archives 1999-2005: Archives - 2002-05-24 to 2002-11-25: Capt Dons charges 5.00$ to dive off their dock...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 7:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

A friend just got back and said this is the norm at habitat now. I wonder if other resorts will follow?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rio on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 8:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason if you stay there do you have to pay as well?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ernie Bauer on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 9:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I don’t think you have to pay if you’re a quest.
It would be pretty bold of them if they did charge quests.

For me, it more or less says non-quests should stay out. I noticed the sign after patronizing their restaurant. Even though the food and service was great and I’ve heard nothing but good things about the resort, the sign gives me a bad feeling.

I’m not sure what their real motive is for the fee. It does however, make me think twice whether or not my money should also stay out.

Ernie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rog & Karen Huff on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 11:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason & Ernie...we also noticed the $5.00 fee to dive there...instead we went next door to Lions Den where they welcomed us to dive and we dove north up to Capt. Don's...did the same dive and it didn't cost us...we also had many fabulous lunches at Lions Den...Happy diving, Rog & Karen

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Dunn on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 11:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I did the same. Lion's Dive was very welcoming and their restaurant is great!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Meryl Virga on Thursday, August 1, 2002 - 11:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah we were upset at this...not diving freedom...we brought all our stuff...just wanted to dive in........ luckily we scraped up some gilders to pay...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 8:12 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Capt. Don's does not charge their guests to dive there. Also, there's a lot of people shuffling in and out of the locker/dock area- what would prevent you from just walking down to the dock and diving in? Seems separating guests from non-guests would be a difficult task.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Chalk on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:03 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Dear All,

Let me explain the $5.00 fee as opposed to everyone jumping to conclusions. We instituted the fee approximately 1 year ago. The reasoning was as follows. We paid approximately $200K to replace our piers, which by the way are private piers as are all other dive operations on the island. Our water bill amounts to quite a substantial sum over the course of one month (rinse tanks and showers included). All of these are costs of doing business which are in essence paid by our paying guests or divers registered to dive with us who may be staying somewhere else. It only seemed fair to our guests and divers who purchase a dive package from us that all others should contribute to the cost of maintaining our easy entry dive pier, rinse tanks and showers as well as lockers, which in some small way may help to keep our overall costs down which translates to the fact that our rates have not gone up in 2 years and will not go up next year despite the fact the cost of doing business on Bonaire has risen.

Furthermore, we have had many instances where entire groups from other operations have just shown up without even the courtesy of checking in with the dive operation and asking permission to use the pier, our luggage carts to haul their tanks and equipment down to the dock and even going so far as taking lockers from our guests who may have been out on a dive at the time. We have had many times where I have personally seen it impossible for our own paying guests to even get on the dock because it was full of non-paying guests.

I am not sure if any of the other operations are doing this or even have plans to do this, however if they were, we would certainly be willing to inform our guests of such a policy and most of our guests I have discussed this with would have no problem with such a fee as long as it was a reasonable fee such as the $5.00. I like to use this analogy. By not paying the $5.00 fee if you are not a guest of Habitat or registered to dive with Habitat is sort of like going to Burger King and buying a Whopper and then driving to McDonalds to sit down an eat it.

Some have made the comment to me that the water is free...indeed they are correct, however the infrastructure to facilitate easy entry and exit to that water is not. For those who do not wish to pay the $5.00...no problem...you are more than welcome to make your entry in front of Villa Number 6 where we have a small beach entry area and steps (which by the way Habitat installed)free of charge. If you are not sure where this is located, any of our staff would be more than welcome to direct you to it.

In answer to Glenn's comment above, he is correct. It is difficult at times to know who paid and who didn't, especially since our pier and tanks are accessible 24 hours a day,(Diving Freedom - Yes, Diving Free - No) and yes we have had several people that we know of that have used our tanks and piers without paying, however, those are the minority. We feel that most people are honest and will continue to run our business on that premise. Tanks will continue to be available 24 hours a day and there will be no-one at the pier checking for your red tag (this is the tag you will receive when you pay your $5.00 so that the staff know you have paid) or your room key at night time. All I can say is let your conscious be your guide.

Some may not agree with the fee, however most that I have talked with and after explaining the fee have no problem with it. Maintains my faith in my fellowman.

Sincerely,
Jack Chalk
General Manager
Habitat Bonaire N.V.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Farris on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jack a comment and a question.

First, I personally see nothing wrong with your policy. If I am going to use your dock and your shower, I certainly am willing to pay for its maintenance. In fact, I will be sure to do that on our trip next month. I stayed at Habitat a few years ago and remember the dive from your pier as a wonderful piece of reef, easily accessible, and loaded with life.

My question is, for someone who would like to do a few dives from your pier over the course of a week, is the charge $5.00 per day or per dive or per week?

Thanks for taking the time to contribute your side of the discussion.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ernie Bauer on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jack,

I’m glad you took the time to explain the rational for the fee. It comes down to a business decision for Capt Don’s. I think you underestimate the revenue from non guests at your facility (restaurant, bar, dive shop etc.) but, I have to respect your judgment on what’s best for your business. Considering all the things Capt. Don’s has done for Bonaire, I guess this is a pretty trivial issue.

Ernie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Chalk on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 11:48 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Dear Jeff and Ernie,

Thank you for your comments. Jeff, the fee is a daily fee (24 hours). Looking forward to meeting you next week.

Jack

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt III on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 11:49 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

It is my understanding that several other Hotels are charging to use their amenity's i.e. beaches, chairs and towels so why is it not fair to charge for the use of the Pier, showers and rinse tanks at Habitat. Hotels will not let non guests use their pools. Why should those that have not paid for the use of something think they should get it for free?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Renee Bayes on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 12:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I understand the rationale, but I still disagree with the practice.

I think that if all resorts charged a fee for access to their reefs, that a lot fewer people would be inclined to go to Bonaire. If we had to pay $5.00 for each shore dive, I'd be doing a lot less shore diving. Plus I think it's unfair to the other resorts - they don't charge Habitat guests for the use of their piers.

IMO towels and swimming pool use are a separate issue - the economy on Bonaire is not driven by pool and laundry services.

Just my .02

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Farris on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just to put another perspective on this issue, consider that on most other islands in Caribbean, if you showed up on a resort's dock with a tank from a different operator, you would be shown the way out or the way to the dive shop where you would have to rent one of their tanks.

And, Jack, I wish it was next week. It's not until the first week of September.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:30 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

...not diving freedom...

This says it ALL. Wasnt it Capt Don who coined the phrase? Ouch!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sherry baker on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

since you can enter the reef at capt don's from another location on site besides the dock for free, i really dont see an issue. after all, the goal is to get into the water and enjoy the dive.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sherry baker on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

also, i would think it is one thing for someone to use another place's dock for entry and exit, but to think they should use any facility-such as shower, lockers, dunk tanks or showers for free is just inconciderate.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 1:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason, I think the sentence was diving freedom yes and diving free no. I think Habitat has every right to charge a small fee. Most shops, not located on Bonaire, would not even consider letting you do your dives for free from privat proporty. Most hotels and diveshops I've seen in the caribbean and in Europe would not let non-guests stay on their beaches and dive from their piers and beaches. If they would let you do it, it costs a lot more than $ 5,00. It's a policy wheater you like it or not.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 2:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

good point-

"I think you underestimate the revenue from non guests at your facility (restaurant, bar, dive shop etc.)"

good point-

"I think that if all resorts charged a fee... that a lot fewer people would be inclined to go to Bonaire. If we had to pay $5.00 for each shore dive, I'd be doing a lot less shore diving. Plus I think it's unfair to the other resorts - they don't charge Habitat guests for the use of their piers."

are you kidding?-

"the fee is a daily fee (24 hours)."

I'll add something here. The 5.00 dollar fee is CLEARLY to discourage divers from using Capt Don's as an entrypoint for diving. How many other resorts in the caribbean charge to use dive piers? Im guessing not one. Not even glamorous and overpriced Cayman. When all the resorts decide to charge non-guest divers 5.00 for use of the dive pier isnt Boniare as we used to know it dead? Diving freedom no more. The only saving grace is that you can use the property to enter the water if you decide to forego the entry fee. If at any time, any resort decides to charge divers for using property as well as the dive pier I assure you there will be trouble. Shame on you Capt Don. You started something you may be unable to stop.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jevon on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 2:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It's difficult for me to understand the confusion over what is public and what is private property.

For example Plaza does not charge for entry to our beach and waterfront, we do not charge for shore divers going off the beach, however it is a little frustrating when those people using the beach think that the showers, rinse tanks, chairs and pool are also part of Bonaire's "diving Freedom",even more strange is the number of divers who think that the tanks we leave out for use of our guests are included in the package of other resorts.
I've tried reasoning with people in the same way Jack has, and even after explaining that taking someone else's property without permission is actually called theft in Bonaire, the same as in any other country, they still have not got the message. Is the above any different than opening a car door and taking a pair of sunglasses? If anyone can convince me otherwise I'll buy the beer.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 3:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I thought Jack was pretty clear. The staff at Capt. Don's is not trying to discourage anyone. You are more than welcome to enter there using the beach, which is just as easy as giant-striding off the pier. If you choose to use the pier or fresh-water facilities, you pay on the honor system. Even if the rest of the resorts switched to the fee you are so outraged over, there are so many non-resort related shore-diving sites available on Bonaire that if you chose not to pay, you'd still have a great selection to choose from.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan & Joan Zale on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 3:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

FYI: Last time we were in Grand Cayman I recall the policy being that if you did a shore dive from another resort you were expected to rent your tank from that resort.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Deal on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 3:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I throw my vote with Jack and with Steve Jevon. I think it is entirely appropriate for any privately owned facility to charge a fee---especially a nominal fee--- for the use of infastructure which is built and maintained with private money. Then again, I have this irrational belief in a free market. Those who disagree with the policies of Capt. Don's or the Plaza can choose to take their business elsewhere. As Glenn points out, there are a lot of other great shore divesites have free entry.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 4:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Isn't it amazing how sometimes people read perfectly intelligible sentences and interpret them completely wrong? As Glenn said, anyone who wants to dive in front of Captain Don's still can, if they use the beach instead of the dock.

As someone who's stayed at Captain Don's a few times now, I know that the locker space is limited. Paying guests are asked to "double up" when possible - if I couldn't use a locker because someone walked in off the street and took the last one available I'd be a bit upset.

And I personally and selfishly agree with Jack that his paying customers should not ultimately foot the bill for the water usage of non-paying guests.

Those who want to shore dive at Captain Don's for free still can - the shore is open, just over there to the right. It's the dock, lockers, dunk tanks and shower area that you must pay for, and the last time I looked, most shore dives didn't have those either.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 4:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Also I might add: Tsk tsking Captain Don is silly - he has very little to do with the Habitat now.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cowperthwaite on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 4:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wow, such the hotbed of debate. Another slant good or bad, is I agree with both sides sort of. I haven't stayed at the Plaza or Habitat, and probably won't because I like a different type of resort; however, I dive both of those sites each time I come to Bonaire.

I ask, or have been mind you, every time whether I may dive from their facility. Usually there is a couple of young girls in the rental shack on the beach at the Plaza, or some dive instructor wandering around the habitat. Each time, they have said yes and even gone as far as pointing me in the right direction or pointing out something worrysome (habitat boats coming and going for example).

I would never think of going beyond that, and realize some do. I don't use lockers, showers or rinse tanks...merely the beach or dock. I fully appreciate Habitat's stance on charging for facility use, but feel the dock is a bit extreme. After all, that is paid for (eventually) by all guests, non-guests at restaurants, and dive ops. Sure, it was lost during Lennie, but to start charging non-guests now is a little after the fact.

On the other hand, Habitat should be charging for the use of lockers, rinse tanks, showers and other facilities that are not directly involved in entry/exit to the reef. Granted we can take the beach route, but shouldn't it be easier to monitor the dock? A couple of well placed signs welcoming us non-resident customers and explaining rinse fees, tank fees, etc would go along way to promoting the good will. I regularly eat/drink at the Habitat, and are in some minute way supporting their infrastructure by doing so. I won't give up that view from the bar during sunset and expect to pay while I am there enjoying it. I have (the last 3 visits) planned the Habit dive at 4pm so that I would be on a barstool relaxing directly there after. I wash my self and gear (I know, yuck) when I get back to our condo a couple of hours after getting out of the water.

Plaza, doesn't charge me to walk in and out of their wonderful beach when diving, but should if I borrowed tanks (I don't) or rinse, or flop down and take a chair. I hope that policy doesn't change, and I certainly hope Habitat rethinks what they are charging for. Granted some of us are more considerate than others, but should we be dinged too?

Reconsider the pier, it wasn't put in so us shore divers could us it. It's their for boat access primarly, and only offers the shore set an easier route to the water while giving the local dive masters a teaching platform.

Thanks for reading and I hope the right trend starts from this. Will be there again in October, hopefully bumming a giant stride off the dock, rinsing later [:~o]

Cheers

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 5:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

John,
It's a lot easier to just post the sign and trust people to be honest than to set up locker police.

Obviously, Jack or some of the other people working there *could* spend their time making sure that the people who walk in off the street don't take up locker space or use the rinse tanks, but that takes away from the their time spent servicing paying customers.

Ultimately, what is a nuisance to Jack is also a nuisance to those of us who pay to stay at Habitat. If the nuisance is bad enough, we stop paying to stay there. It's completely reasonable that Jack make an effort to prevent that happening.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Geoffrey Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 5:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

There is also a safety issue at Capt. Dons dock which is another reason for people to check in. All guests are briefed on how to head to the reef without getting in the way of the dive boats.

A lot has changed over the years and, as a paying guest to capt. dons, I am pleased with the restriction. I go to Capt. Dons because I like "diving freedom" and I am willing to pay for it. I never confused what the Habitat offered with "free diving". Free SCUBA diving can only be claimed by those with sufficient wind to charge a tank by blowing on it with their lips. (to say nothing of the skills to hammer out the tank from old engine blocks etc. etc.) Even years ago, I think guests were asked to check in with the dive operation if memory serves. It certainly was the polite thing to do and always was.

For those who wish to return to the old days, if you are willing to meet me at the bar for a few rounds of drinks, I will supply you with one of my old dive regulators (US Divers aquarius), (You are too deep or too long when it gets hard to breath, so operation is simplified) an old NE divers snorkel vest (fairly leaky), A Scubapro (no batteries required) deco meter, and I will pay your $5 fee provided you enter within 20 minutes of completing the bar crawl.

Or ... you can pay Jack and get the safety briefing.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 6:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

John, your point about "the pier, it wasn't put in so us shore divers could us it. It's their for boat access primarly..." is only true for the large pier, or "Papa Dock". The smaller "Baby Dock" to the right of it was specifically put in for shore divers to giant-stride off of. No one, guest or non-guest, is allowed to use Papa Dock for a shore dive for safety reasons.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 7:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Gooood job everyone. My agro post was to get some people typing. I didnt feel like this thread was getting the attention and serious response it deserves. John Cowperthwaite you should run for Gov. of Colo. because that was pure poetry. Everyone should read it to get a great outline on making a point... and being right. Yes, 5.00 is too much and not very realistic, but if I only use the dock for entry exit do I still have to pay?

"Will be there again in October, hopefully bumming a giant stride off the dock, rinsing later"

I guess I'll find out in a couple weeks.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 8:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason,

While you may think $5.00 is too much, I'm sure the people who came back from dives to find the lockers they'd had their gear in usurped by people not even staying in the hotel, and those who couldn't get out on the dock to giant stride in because some group from outside was dillydallying and putzing around, would think otherwise.

To you and other people who *don't* (ab)use the facilities, perhaps it is; but Jack has to listen to the complaints of his guests, not you. Unhappy customers talk with their pocketbooks - their next trip to Bonaire may be to the Plaza or Divi instead.

Many of us go there and never leave the premises - my husband has problems with his back, so we don't shore dive, just boat dive and dive off the dock there. Sitting at Rum Runners I see many of the same people there everyday too - the occasional diner from other resorts isn't the one bringing up the profits.

Keeping US happy, those of us who stay there and eat there almost every day, is not only in Jack's best interest, but makes good business sense.

Finally, though the docks may be completed, it wouldn't surprise me that they aren't completely paid for; and even if they are, there's upkeep. Why shouldn't people who don't contribute to the total income of the Habitat pitch in towards that?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glenn Fager on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 8:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well, there you have it folks. Jason just admitted to being a troll. You can disregard any future posts by him.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 9:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

"Finally, though the docks may be completed, it wouldn't surprise me that they aren't completely paid for; and even if they are, there's upkeep. Why shouldn't people who don't contribute to the total income of the Habitat pitch in towards that?"

good point. 5.00 a day is too much. How about 5.00 a day and progressively cheaper the more times you visit? Like Mr. Cowperthwaite said something that promotes "the good will" can be very valuable in the long run.

Im not sure what a troll is but I assure you I am much better looking. Thanks for being the BT police and please see line above regarding good will.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jevon on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm enjoying this, let me ask another question:
If I'm paying good money for a quality meal at a quality restaurant, with excellent service, fine ambiance and because of this it is not the cheapest place in town, and yet the clients from Burger King next door feel they are entitled to wander in and help themselves from the dessert trolley; how would I expect to feel when I come to cough up the bill and service charge.
If you want to have the use of a very convenient dock then go stay at Habitat, otherwise use the beach access, if you want the convenience of 24 hour access to tanks, rather than find your dive shop closed for tanks after 05:00 or 06:00pm then come and stay at Plaza.
The primary problem here is as stated earlier on; we would not need these rules if everyone behaved responsibly and respected other peoples property.

By the way, as far as I know, Habitat does not own the bar and Restaurant, so they probably do not get that much revenue.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By DARLENE ELLIS on Friday, August 2, 2002 - 10:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Guys! Can we just play nice. Jake and Linda have been away on vacation and are probably just getting back to reading the board. They do us such a kind service by providing this for our pleasure, I would hate for them to be seeing this thread just as they come back and start entering reality again!
The rules are the rules weather we like them or not and a privately owned business have the right to make up their own rules!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 12:12 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Amen, Darlene! If it is private property...it is their perrogative (sp?) to charge this nominal fee. If one were to use their facilities (rinse tanks, showers, etc, etc) then I see nothing wrong with charging to do so. As much as I disagree with the policy here in New Jersey...if you want to park your butt down on the sand of the beaches here it will cost you more than $5.00 per day!! That includes nothing except crowds, sand and hopefully clear waters. No questions and no discussions...pay the fee or don't utilize the facility/beaches, etc. I don't care for this system at all, but it is a fact of life here. "They" claim the revenue is needed to keep the beaches patrolled, lifeguards and cleaned, etc. and that the year-round residents property taxes cannot and should not foot the bill for the day trippers or seasonal beach pass users.

I really don't think Don's is being out of line...but, that is just my opinion and it is not meant to stir up any additional controversy by any means!

When are J & L coming home, anyway? Soon, I would expect? Peace to all and happy diving. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By DARLENE ELLIS on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 8:29 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carole, Jake and Linda should be back in NH by now because we have the awesome NH BBQ tomorrow that they are attending and I am looking forward to! I do not know when they actually return to Bonaire but I suspect it will be soon!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Chalk on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 9:10 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

To All Who Commented On This Subject,

Thank you. To those that agree, it is always good to have support to reinforce your decision, and to those that disagree, it is always good to get constructive critisism, for with out both you could never improve.

Capt. Don's will continue with the $5.00 daily fee for pier use, however we are looking at some sort of discount for repeat users, i.e. Free Drink Coupon for the bar, Discount Coupon for the Restaurant or Boutique, etc.. (thank you Jason).

Steve, as a "competitor", thank you for your support.

Bottom line...Capt. Don's has and always will try to protect the rights of our paying guests and divers.

Respectfully,
Jack Chalk
General Manager
Habitat Bonaire N.V.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 10:20 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jack,

You are one of the reasons why we come back to Don's every time. A class act, you run a class operation.

Thanks.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 11:03 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Being that I never been to Bonaire may I add something to this conversation. Maybe the reason divers take other divers lockers is because they feel they need to lock their equipment up while they attend the bar or eatery. Cerrtainly if there is a problem with not having enough lockers for the regular guests of the diveshop than more lockers should be installed for those divers that paid for those services. I understand all this takes money and time, which in most places, there isn't enough of. Money can come from the five dollars fee of course but what type of message is this sending to future customers? There is no free ticket to anywhere that I know of so why expect it from Bonaire. In Mexico there is a law that says the beaches are not own by anyone, everyone has the right to the beaches even on the Resorts of the Gold Coast of the western shores of Mexico. But than again, natives aren't allowed within these "resort grounds" without first paying for a room. Natives usually have their own beaches away from the tourists. It sounds to me that Bonaire is changing with these fees which may or may not be a good thing. Only time will tell if this was a proper thing to do. The diveshops business profit line will be the deciding factor and not the diver's opinion here online...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve and Sandy Oliver on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 11:17 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Amen, Susan.

I especially commend Jack for his patience in responding to those who expect something for nothing.

Steve

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Gillan on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 3:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Captain Jack,

Let me get this straight. For five bucks I can have all day access to the world class reef off Habitat, plus water, shower, etc. Sounds like a good deal to me. It costs $8 to park ($10 on weekends) just to use the "free" beaches here in Florida. Thanks for opening up, yet another great place to dive on Bonaire.

In the early days of Bonaire diving when Capt Don was at Hotel Bonaire and Bruce Bowker worked for him, when we went down to where Habitat is now located to dive, we would have to climb down and up those cliffs to get to that reef from the shore where Habitat (et al) are now located.

Thanks for helping build and keep Bonaire a great place to dive and snorkel. I think your cost and rationale in quite reasonable. And thanks for opening up the free access area with stairs, even though I will miss the challenge of climbing up and down the cliff to get to the water. I am sure I spent that much on bandages and wound care.

Regards,

Bud Gillan
Flying Fish
Boca Raton

ps. my 25th trip to Bonaire was delayed until Jan. See you then. We are still trying to track down a new species of jellyfish photographed off Bonaire (Belnem and Hilma). It is a cubozoan and has even the Cnidarian /jellyologists from Smithsonian baffled. I will email you the picture. Hopefully, you can help us find more of these new creatures.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 3:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Having finally returned, I agree Steve :-)

We have had similar problems explaining why we offer paid memberships to folks in exchange for extra Bonaire WebCams features - some have told us all we offer should be free since it's on the Internet - same mentality.

If someone doesn't want to pay a nominal amount for shore access via private property, they still have 50+ other marked (and countless unmarked) dive sites to enjoy from shore with no fee.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Starkweather on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 4:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't Cargill Salt own the land on the whole south side of the island? What would happen if they decided to charge a entry fee to get access to the South. Good bye Bonaire tourism. Capt. Don's has the right to do what ever they want but to me they are on shaky ground with the 5.00 USD charges. To me they could easily post signs telling people that the locker's and rinse facilities are for guest of the property only. I believe that the vast majority of people would respect the policy. It used to be common knowledge (probaly still is with the exception of Capt Don's) That Divers could dive from other Dive facilities without charge by simply asking someone at the dive shop. It will be a sad diving day when Bonaire decides to be like other dive destinations.

TPS

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott and sharon barlass on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 4:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tom,
Cargill leases the land. My understanding is that part of the lease agreement includes maintaining public access to specific areas and watering the palm trees on Pink Beach.

I agree that Jack may want to post signs that explain the policy and fee as he did in his post above.


Scott

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 4:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well said...Jack, Steve and Jake! Although I have never used their facilities...I'll gladly pay my $5.00. Next trip! :)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 5:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just to play the devil's advocate: today it's $5 for diving off the dock; tomorrow there's $6 dollars added for a locker; than the third day there's $7 dollars added per showers...I believe when one takes money in exchange for services or admission to a place than the money ball starts to roll...and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. I hope everyone carefully thinks about the repercussions this will have with tourism and the diving industry on Bonaire. When things like this happen maybe there are too many divers visiting Bonaire...I guess my first thought would be to define the real problem; is it that divers out weigh the services? Probably, Diver control? Probably, Cheating the diveshop for services? Probably. So what's the answer- more money? Probably not. Why not be totally honest with these people and tell them you're not equipped to handle these masses? That they should not dive here unless they are register guests?? Honestly is the best policy isn't it??? Remember I'm just being the devil's advocate here- don't flame me too bad!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mary pequinot on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 5:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

One thing that people often take for granted is the incredible expense of fresh water on the island. Given that, I don't think it's a bad policy, and for $5/day, it seems reasonable, if you have access to a shower and rinse tank.

As for shore diving costs, none of the shore dives offer any kind of amenities.

To complain about a $5.00 fee seems ridiculous.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Geoffrey Feldman on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 6:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim Kennedy... I think when you do come to Bonaire, you should let us all know where you are staying. It would be very handy to store stuff in your room during this time. I know some locals who would then have more space in their living rooms at least for that week and could hold some cool parties for everyone.

The Habitat is a business. It's a hotel and dive resort that provides a variety of services to its paying guests. If the devil was as intelligent as your advocacy then good would be rampant in the world.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 6:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim,
Does it really make sense to you that, because some non-customer thinks they need to store their stuff, it's ok to take someone else's locker to do this????

If they schlepped their gear as far as the Habitat, it must obviously have been in a car unless they're possessed of superman strength, why not dump it in the car if they really feel the need to lock it up somewhere while eating or drinking? Or are you going to suggest that there are thieves waiting to break into cars in the Habitat parking lot??? Do you know Mimi???

Trust me - you said it yourself, you have not been to Bonaire. You really don't have a clue.

As has been repeated time and time again in this thread: anyone who wishes to dive at La Machaca still can for free - you just need to walk a little further. If that bothers you, then book into Captain Don's next time.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 8:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan~

No I don't agree that it's ok to take another diver's locker. But I been around long enough and have a clue to be upfront with people and tell the truth. What if- $5 doesn't solve the problem? You tell me...

Jimini

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Saturday, August 3, 2002 - 9:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim,

I'm not sure I agree with Geoff's or Susan's analogies with respect to your comments, which I don't entirely agree with either, but you make a point at the end which is right on the money - if a dive operation, or any other entity which controls access to a dive site doesn't want strangers using their property as the means to access a particular dive site, they fully have the right to restrict the use of their property as a means of access. So far, most of the dive operations (Black Durgon as a notable exception) allow non-guests to go through their property in exchange for certain consideration (letting the dive shop know you'll be diving through, for example, or in Habitat's case, charging a nominal $5 fee for the use of the access facilities). But, piss them off enough, they are within their rights to block access entirely to an individual or a whole group of people (e.g. non-guests).

Similarly, those of us who live on the shore don't want strangers opening our gates, wandering through our property, and then going onto our beach just to access a particular dive site just because they think its their right - it's a privilege, and afforded only to a limited number of people (at the discretion of the occupant of the private residence through which such traversal occurs).

That's why some dive sites are listed as Boat-only on the dive maps.

As I said before, that still leaves 50+ or so shore dives that are unencumbered by dive operations, private residences, etc., so it's not like not being willing to pay a $5 fee, etc., is seriously inhibiting your ability to dive Bonaire.

TANSTAAFL

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 12:49 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake~

I hope more people than you understand some of the points I was trying to make. Money does not solve all the problems all the time. If the issue is overcrowding; using guest lockers; and taking up valuable space charging $5 probably won't remedy the problem- maybe charging $50 would...Signs posted would help? Maybe. Divers who are using other divers lockers and such probably won't be stopped from using those lockers by charging them $5 infact that may very well make matters worse in that they would think that they would have a "right" to lockers. I don't know what the answer is but I doubt that charging $5 will effectly solve Capt. Don's problem. I just wish Capt. Don's "Good Luck", diveshops are a tough racket to get into and survive...

Safe Diving, JIM

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan flubacher on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 5:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

a lot of people know that there is a nice bar and restaurant at capt. don's only because they came there for a simple shore dive. which means that they became customers, and maybe even guests at the resort only because of the dive they made there. so maybe guest-divers aren't such a plague to the habitat after all. but then again: $5,- for only using the dock and maybe some water for rinsing sounds to much to me. someone want's to earn money here. and if it is not stopped now (by boycotting or something similar) the other resorts WILL follow. if the habitat DOES NOT have LESS divers using their dock because of the fee, the others will follow!!! that's the law of the "free market" robert believes in. you as a diver paying this fee or boycotting don's by not even having a beer there after you entered the sea from aside are creating and ruling this market. so it is in your hands - do the right thing whatever that is for you, but concider influence of what you do or what you don't,

darlene, i disagree strongly with you! the rules are not the rules, WE make them. and if we dont like them we can do something about it. otherwise we accept everything until we can not bare it any longer and by a gun....
of course the habitat can make it's own rules, but we don't have to follow, we do have a choice. the market rules and the customer has an influence on this very market. let's not be the market's slaves but it's masters. halleluja

jack chalk, if it is not to encourage other divers to use your dock, but to protect the interests of "paying customers" (which i asume are only people staying at the habitat) then i don't see the use??? if all the divers agreed to pay the fee AND use the facilities, the lockers would still be crowded...but you would have earned $5,- per diver - congratulations!!! i hope everybody can clearly see that protection can not be the issue here. other solutions would be much more protective for the guests at habitat, but not so financially interesting;-)

steve and sandy, not to be misunderstood: i do not expect something for nothing, i am just warning about a new policy on bonaire.
it's no fun on american beaches were you have to pay, so let's not say: they do it as wel - let's do it different here!

jake - right now there are 50+ other sites, but for how long if this idea turns out to be a goldmine??? and then again $5,- is not nominal for some water to rinse;-).....so is this about this water and the 10 seconds walk on a dock before and after diving???

mary, if complaining about $5,- is rediculous, would you like to pay $5,- for a normal loaf of bread, just because it is not so much in perspective of your income? besides, diving is not only a sport for the rich and happy few, there's a lot of divers out there who care about $5,- more or less a day.

geoffrey brings us back to what it is all about, thanks, geoffrey! it's business!!! and again: WE can influence the market, in fact we ARE the market. i do not chose to make the habitat richer with this little trick, all of you have this choice.

susan - yes, that's the solution: no fees, no lockers for the divers from outside. but then the habitat would not earn $5,-, would they;-)

finally, i don't think what the habitat does is wrong. it's good for them and it will be over the years for all other resorts, because they earn more money by not offering anything more than before. but the diver pays!!! it's up to us if we like this policy or not.
i personally do not like to spend this extra fee and i will not only boycott the dock but also the bar, the restaurant and the diveshop and will also rent my tanks somewhere else. i hope enough people will do so as wel to prevent other resorts from following this exemple.

jan

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mary pequinot on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 6:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

jan,

No, I wouldn't like to pay $5 for a loaf of bread. But again, the price of water and other utilities on Bonaire is costly. Why should you expect to use facilities that are provided for nothing? I haven't read many complaints about the Plaza, who charges for the use of their beaches. It's more than just "charging the patrons". There are costs involved-those of us in the US take for granted the price of water I pay much more than $5 for a movie in the states. And while others may disagree, diving is a pleasure, privilege and luxury, not a life necessity. I fail to see where anyone traveling to Bonaire could not afford $5 for diving for a day. Again, diving freedom does not mean diving free.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 7:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Um Jan:

YOU CAN SHORE DIVE AT CAPTAIN DONS FOR NOTHING. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING. NADA. JUST USE THE STAIRS AT THE BEACH, IN FRONT OF VILLA 6. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY 5 DOLLARS, KEEP ON GOING TO THE RIGHT.

Is this SO HARD for anyone to understand???????

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 7:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you, Susan for again trying to easily explain things to those who wish to complicate matters.

Jan...there IS an option here, as Susan and others have pointed out several times over...just go to the right to the stairs at the beach GRATIS! There are points to access shore dives all over the place on the island of Bonaire for nothing...this way one does NOT have to utililze the actual docks owned by resorts. Is this so hard to grasp? Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 11:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

...WHEN DOES VILLA #6 CHARGE SIX DOLLARS TO USE THE STAIRS????

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 11:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

May we come help ourselves to some crops from your land? Gratis, of course? Is Mimi out there, or what? Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker on Sunday, August 4, 2002 - 11:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am only joking, Jim, please do not take my posting personally...I just think the topic has been beaten to death at this point. I admire folks who are able to work the land. There are not enough people on this earth who care enough to continue to do what you do. I truly do admire you for your work. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 7:55 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Why Jim, when they see YOU coming, of course!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe chandler on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 11:29 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I racall a discussion Mr. Chalk had on rec.scuba a couple years ago in which a gentleman adamantly argued that he could use Habitat tanks for free for night dives any time he wanted to. He suggested everyone do so. Said he had been doing so for years. I think that is when "Diving Freedom not diving for free" was coined.

So Jason - next time you do a giant stride from the Salt Pier - do you think they have a right to ask you for a fee? :)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan flubacher on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 2:57 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

mary - i do not expect to use facilities for free, but in my opinion that is not the issue. the issue is: when will the other resorts follow. and yes - diving is not a necessity (well i know some fellows....) but i don't see why $5,- is the right price for the use of the dock and some water.(i am aware of the bonairian water-prices)

susan - no it's not hard to understand and if you read my posting well, that's what i am going to do in the future, using the other entry. but i am one of the people who used to ask, who didn't use a locker, who rinsed at home and still offered a beer or two at the captains bar. why charge me??? i don't see why i should be charged exept that there is more money to earn. a new niche were money can be made. susan, is the habitat so poor that they really would worry about the use of water, while half of the "guests" leave a couple of dollars at the bar or restaurant? when willl we have to pay in a restaurant for using the toilet, or maybee a fee for people with diaree, who use the "powderroom" more often than others?

carole, it is not that there is no option right now - it's about the future: over a couple of years all resorts an the salt company and the gouvernment will charge you for a shoredive if you accept this policy now. they might decide differently if the customer gets upset. is THAT so hard to understand??? it is nice but not neccessary if a waiter offers cockies with the tea. it will cost him more than serving without cockie, but i (the customer) will be happy and come back soon. i will not go to the one who does not serve a cockie and say: i understand he's not offering a cockie because it's too expensive for the poor guy.

after all i understand you must be very rich people if you don't care about five dollars and consider them to be "nominal". the funny thing is: most people get rich by calculating very accourately and counting the cents. something to think about;-)

jan

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 3:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan,

You may well be one of the considerate ones - but it's a fact of life that there are others who are not.

At the Habitat those inconsiderate ones are not inconveniencing Jack as an individual, but negatively affecting the vacation experience of Jack's paying customers, and we pay a lot more than just a few bucks at Rum Runners or the bar - both of which (if I'm not mistaken) are run by someone else, by the way.

If you can come up with a way for Habitat to decide on a person by person basis as they're approaching the dock, in a cost-effective manner, that a given outside diver is or is not a considerate diver so therefor should or should not be charged, you should patent it and sell it to them.

Meanwhile, they have the right to do whatever it takes to stay profitable and not alienate those of us who think enough of them to spend our hard-earned dollars to stay there.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 4:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

First, this thread has never been about the "rights" of resorts. I think we are all aware.

Susan, have you been alienated? And if so, would you take your business elsewhere because of it?

The bottom line is the 5.00 is to discourage visitors from the pier, not to profit from them.

Habitat doesn't want visiting divers near their divers. I guess they dont feel special enough as it is and need more pampering.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 4:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I hope none of you take me too seriously! It's just my style to get people's blood boiling and stir the pot. And Carol with the low price of crops in the last five years you actually have been taking them for nothing ;>) But that's ok, when prices comes down they go back up- grain prices including. You know the funny thing about giving crops (sweetcorn) away is that people expect me to pick and deliver to them. I have told my co-workers (I also work full time in a factory for 16 years) to come out and pick all they want- no one showed up as of yet! And probably never will...

I think this board is probably the best internet message board I seen in a long time. But I bet Capt. Jack would love for us to drop this subject-

Safe Diving, JIMINI

PS. Susan, if Villa #6 knew I was a farmer they probably would charge me extra - what's that saying about rich f-----g farmers??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim, I wish I could drop by and gather up some sweet corn right now! Just love it to pieces. Thanks for offer and keep up the good work with the land...it is one of the most important occupations in the world. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linnea Wijkhof-Wimberly on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

OK, here's a CAL divers $.02 worth.

1. Capt. Don's has the right to charge non-guests a fee to use the pier and rinse water. I remember during my first visit to Bonaire in '89 and some residents feeling good about watching their water usage carefully and being able to get their water bill under $100 US. That did not include washing clothes as they used the local laundromat. That said, I don't understand why the lockers couldn't have padlocks issued to divers when the lockers are assigned. A squirt of WD-40 everytime a padlock is returned should keep them working.

2. As has been noted, if you don't want to pay, use the beach. The only free beach parking around So. Cal. has to be gotten before 5 am or you are out of luck, summer or winter, and before 7 am at the latest for the pay parking ($1 an hour) on the street and $10-25 to get into the state or county beach parking lots. I take my own water in buckets and/or gallon jugs to use for rinsing my self and gear off with.

3. As usual it is the lazy and/or rude who are the cause of restrictions for everyone, either actually not being allowed the use of facilities or having to pay for the use. Laguna Beach has cops crusing the street parking areas for beaches used by divers because of idiots that play their radios, clank their tanks, and flap their traps at full volume at 6 am or earlier, The beachfront residents have tried several times to ban all divers from the beach, but so far have not succeeded.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason,

If I pay for a service or access to a facility and people who have not paid for it go in and take advantage of it, without the service provider taking steps to lessen it's impact on me, yes I become alienated and yes - I do take my business elsewhere. Why, don't you?

I agree, that the $5.00 is not to profit from people using the dock, especially since it's on the honor system. I think it's more to make people think about what they're doing. If you want to use the dock, you pay. If you don't, you walk a few more feet to the right and dive off the beach. Either way, Habitat divers will come in contact with you.

It isn't a matter of pampering, it's a matter of courtesy.

THAT'S the bottom line.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Monday, August 5, 2002 - 5:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Linnea,

Habitat doesn't assign lockers, they're first-come first-serve. However, they encourage even the paying customers to double up if at all possible, as a courtesy to the other paying customers - there just isn't that many of them. Once a locker has been claimed by putting a lock in the door, the honor system kicks in and you don't take someone else's locker.

We provide our own locks, and when our gear isn't in them tend to leave them in the door, but unlocked - again the honor system kicks in, and as long as the lock is there the locker is assumed to be occupied. In the 4 times I've been there, I've not had anyone staying at the Habitat fail to respect that unspoken rule.

Of course, this is all covered in the briefing we get, too.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cowperthwaite on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:19 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ok All:

I posted earlier with my slant on this thread, with the sole intention of hoping to promt the BT folks to see both sides of the coin, then work on an amicable (sp?) solution. Seems this debate is hotter than originally perceived and mud slinging is an understatement.

Sure Habitat is a business and has every right to protect both the biz and the patrons.
Sure Bonaire is diving freedom and those of us not staying there should have the chance to dive that reef from shore albeit by beach.

Bottom line is the access point to the reef is private property of sorts, and Habitat has every right to regulate who traverses her grounds to get to the reef. I appreciate the free beach access, and understand the facility fee, and add these last thoughts with the hope the BT'ers can stop slinging trash long enough to look at both sides....but first a little story.

In 1999 I came to Bonaire to dive, like before; after a few days of boat and shore diving, found myself driving back from Oil Slick late in the afternoon tired and hungry. Stopped in the Harbor's bar for drinks and Baracuda fajita's, which turned out to be the best tired diver's meal ever. Last year they were closing. Service sucked, food was worse, and the employees were surly (that's usually my job).

Point is this...politics (can we all say golf course? how about room density?) has all but ruined a great Bonaire property/resort. Sure stubborness is involved, but the place is/has died nonetheless.

I am in no way implying that this will happen to Habitat. I agree that Habitat should do what is necessary to protect not only their interest, but their customers. Accident insurance/liability alone would persuade me to pay the $5 usd to stride off their dock. I, as aforementioned, would never borrow a locker, tank, or rinse without asking to or paying what is charged for the services. After all, when I drop La Danias, there is no rinse, shower, locker (damn those stealy boys for ripping my vid camera) or dock, let alone insurance outside of DAN. I pull myself from the sea, de-gear at the bed of the Hilux, then move on to off-gas. If I hurt myself, there is no one to blame but me.

The issue isn't about what it is costing the customers that are staying there (we all give up something knowingly or not), or even what it is costing Habitat because they will lose their collective shirts should there be an accident, the issue is Pandora's box!

Do we really want to open Bonaire to what is already happening to every other resort around the world? After all, don't we all travel many many miles/Kilometers to experience Bonaire and all her beauty? Do we really want to open the door to commercial exploitation at every level?

Sure, you as a resident customer have rights over me as a non-resident customer of Habitat. That is what you pay for when staying there, and that is why I don't take your locker. Bottom line is we are both customers of Habitat at varying degrees. Yes it is wrong to take gear washes, showers, tanks, or/and lockers. Hell, it was wrong someone stole my vid-camera, but I come back. Every year! Still!!!

I come back, because Bonaire is different. People are friendly despite the camera insident, diving is better than Thailand (it really is!) which is touted these days, and the Dutch Antilles haven't succumb to the politcal mechanism that is ruining both the reefs and the dive industry elsewhere.

Are we sure this isn't the fin in the door?

When I come back this October, I will ask (like I always do) to dive their property. I will ask to use the pier because I don't want to disturb the microbiologic life in the shallows if I have the choice. I will schlep my gear from the Hilux to the shore (or pier) and back. I will lock the gear up in the Hilux when I am done, so I may sit at Rum Runners for an Amstel Bright and watch the sun set. I will swap stories and laughs with whomever wants to join me, and I will spend my hard earned Colorado money (if it hasn't caught fire) at Habitat, and with many other merchants on the Island.

I sure hope we can keep Bonaire pristine, wild and wonderful like in her past. I certainly hope we don't open the door to every Tom Dick and Harry that wants to charge for something that should be part of the Marine Park Tag we arleady paid for.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 8:31 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

John,
OK, you are one of the considerate ones, too. Great, and it's too bad that given that, if you want to be honest about diving off the dock at Habitat, you'll have to pay $5.00.

I just don't see how, given limited resources (a finite number of lockers and high cost of fresh water), and given the fact that one thing PADI and NAUI and all the other agencies neglect in their training is courtesy (perhaps assuming that everyone's mother taught them how to behave, and that they aren't entitled to everything they see), if Habitat as a business wants to encourage outside divers not to use resources they provide for their paying customers, that is opening any such door.

Knowing Jack, I'm convinced that this action was taken only because there were plenty of other divers NOT as courteous and considerate as yourself, and they had to do something to curtail the trend, before they started to lose their real customers - not the ones who simply sit at the bar and down a few. Again, I'm almost positive that Rum Runners is under different management, so that spending money there isn't even a compelling argument against the dock fee.


Also, I'm nearly positive that the marine park tag gives you access to the water and reef, not the land abutting it. That's why some dives are just boat dives. There may be land-lease agreements where land access is stipulated, but I think those are stipulations, not general rules.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Starkweather on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 11:08 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

ONce again correct me if I am wrong bit I believe that there is a land easement along the complete shoreline of Bonaire. X amount of feet belong to the goverment.

TPS

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 11:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Another point. I understood that the dive ops which have the yellow dive site markers (La Machaca in Habitat's case) on the road were required to give some sort of access to that dive site over their property. That does not include use of facilities like lockers, rinse tanks and showers, just access. I thought that meant across docks or beach access. Perhaps Jack is saying that H is now limiting that access to Seven Body Beach.

Jack, please clarify both the general point and H policy.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 12:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tom,

That is incorrect. There is private beach property on the island (all residential as far as I know). The only thing which comes close to what you suggest is that the marine park goes up to the high tide mark, so it could be argued that the land between low tide and high tide (a difference of about 2 feet) is the easement of sorts.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 12:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake,

Can you tell us if the dive site at Punt vierkant (near the new blue houses) is open for public? Last may I noticed the constructors had placed a fence from the house allready build to the hotel beeing build. Is this still closed or is it open for public again?

Martin

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 1:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

No idea, Martin. Sorry.

I do know that the land on which the houses with the convertible (by nature) carports/salt water swimming pools underneath is part of the same land on which the semi-constructed Esmerelda project sits - it's all part and parcel of the same thing, so that would explain the fence connecting the two.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake, NP, I guess I have to find out next November. Only 11 weeks and counting....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan flubacher on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

thank you, john. you put in clear words what is my opinion as well. let's not compare with the north-carolina-parking-situation. let's realise that bonaire is different and luckily not U.S.-like. and let's try to keep this charme alive.

susan - yes i'm a considerate one. i hope that people take more responsibility in there own hands to prevent bonaire from becoming too commercial (not to say too american;-)

here is some very simple way of dealing with the locker and water/rinsing problem:
1. get a simple card (creditcardsize) to clip on your b-jacket that identifies you (or your jacket when being rinsed) as a staying guest of the habitat. (like: special guest VIP- card or something that makes the guest feel special...;-)
2. get a locker-key at the divesite or the bar by showing this "guestcard"
3. put boards that say "the usage of all facilities incl. docks,lockers, showers, rinsing etc. is for habitat guests only! thank you. the dir."

so people will have to ASK before they get permission to use the dock. and if people disbehave regularely just throw them of the property. most of them won't. by the way: how about more lockers so there would be enough for all the guests???

all this together i believe would help to make the customer feel more at ease. without a charge that makes the visitor less happy. the habitat with the name of a place that welcomes people warmly - long live the habitat!!!

jan

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 2:49 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan,
What you are suggesting is simply not workable:

1. Jack would have to have someone sitting there policing the stairs down to the dock, checking tags. That is certainly the complete antithesis of "diving freedom."

2. The locker space is finite. They can't simply "build more."

This customer is happy, and any visitor who doesn't want to pay, AND isn't willing to walk to the beach instead, can go sulk, for all I care.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Renee Bayes on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It's been a while since I've been there, but couldn't Habitat gate off the locker area and only give access to the guests? I really think the "problem" is being exagerated. I may be naive, but I believe that most people are polite and only use the dock for access and do not use the rinse tanks and/or lockers.

Also do Habitat guests not use docks at any other hotels? Does Habitat only allow polite guests to stay there? It seems like it would even out in the end.

I truly believe that corporate greed that is what is behind the fee.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Oh please!

$5.00 per visiting diver who chooses to be honest and pay up (the point is, it's the HONOR SYSTEM - they don't WANT to be GATE NAZIS, they just want people to THINK before they use, and NOT abuse)
is going to put Captain Don's into the black.

Good Grief!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Corporate greed? Figure they maybe get 5-10 non-guest divers a day. Perhaps half of those actually fess up and pay a fee - that's $25 in "profit". Hardly enough to justify your analysis. And I think my numbers are high considering Bonaire gets maybe 300-500 divers per week - and I doubt that even 10% of those not staying at Habitat attempt to dive at Habitat.

In terms of Villa 6 people charging a fee (as someone suggested), one does not need to traipse through villa 6 to get to the stairs at Seven Body Beach - one walks past the Habitat dive shop to get there.

I'm really surprised at how much discussion this point has raised. When I was a tourist visiting Bonaire, I felt a little weird about going to a hotel/resort that I wasn't staying at to dive, and therefore didn't do so, and was surprised to hear that other people did so, and even more surprised to hear that the dive shops at these resorts didn't force them to rent a tank from them to dive from their property.

Even now as a resident of Bonaire I don't like the idea of diving at a local resort myself as it seems that I'm going someplace without having paid for the right of using that location (i.e. by being a paying guest at the resort). Generally the only times I dive a hotel dive spot is if I'm doing it with friends staying at the hotel/resort, and even then I let the dive shop know I'll be there.

And to be blunt, I much prefer picking a nice shore diving spot where I don't have to deal with groups of people of varying experience levels getting in my way - between me and the water.

While there are some nice things to be seen in front of Habitat, Buddy's, Lions Dive, Sand Dollar, etc., I'm pretty sure I can see most of the same things on other dives around Bonaire (at those 50+ sites which are unencumbered by development of any sort and therefore in no danger of being restricted).

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Renee Bayes on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 3:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It's just a suggestion, and it doesn't seem any more ridiculous than charging $5.00 to walk accross their dock!

And - before you flame me - I do plan on using the beach access, or not diving there at all.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 4:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Renee,

Maybe it seems ridiculous to you, but YOU aren't in a service industry, and you don't have to listen to Jack's customers every day.

I know from experience that it can be a bit tiresome waiting for space on one of the tables to open up to get your gear set up or for one of the rinse tanks to open up, or waiting for a few people to just get in the water already who have been putzing around on the end of the dock; but everyone who stays there deals with it, and eventually they DO go in the water. I'm on vacation, and I just bide my time - I'll be in the water soon, too.

However, not all people are patient, and I can certainly imagine that Jack hears a lot more from those who aren't than those who are in these matters. If the transgressors happen to not be guests - and we generally recognize each other after a few days - that exacerbates matters.

Jack has stated earlier in this thread some of the things that occurred which resulted in him having to make this policy. Having met Jack, I believe him to be an honorable man, and has no need to make up stories to support what some people seem to perceive as a nefarious plot akin to an MLM "make money fast" scheme.

Gates with attendants, more lockers, more rinse tanks (I know that one hasn't been suggested, but it probably will be eventually) - none of these ideas make much sense. I wonder if any of those making these suggestions have even been to the Habitat and seen the way the dock is set up?

Obviously, some inconsiderate slobs (no one here, of course), whether they be American, German, Dutch, Chinese or East OshKoshian, were obnoxious enough to cause Jack to have to put a policy in place that annoys some of you.

But you still have lots of choices:

Dive at any of the other 50+ dive sites.
Stay at Habitat, and use the lockers, dock and rinse tanks with impugnity.
Visit and use the beach.

Is this really such a big deal?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 4:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan,

1 small extra, how about diving freedom with gates???? that should be nice.... I think Habitat is entiteld to do the things they are doing. If someone doesn't like that, dive eldewhere....

Martin

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 4:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan~

As I told one native on the island of Utila "don't sell any property to us Americans if you want the island to remain the same". There is now a new international airport, also new oceanfront property for sale that wasn't there two years ago. My bet it's American money causing the changes. There's something about Americans that we just can't go and enjoy an destination without thinking we need to "buy" it. I don't know why that is, I suppose its the way we're taught from childhood and instilled on us throughout our education...We need to OWN it for some reason maybe so we can brag about owning a piece of paradise... I think you probably said it correctly- we need to make money on it - to commercialize on paradise...Us Americans seem to have no use for places or things that don't provide us with some kind of grafication or some type of returns for our money... I had seen many Americans who have the world in their hands but never a smile on their face...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Thomas on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 9:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well I think you should say most Americans, give my buddy (my wife) and I a little peice of Bonaire and we will just join the locals and let life be good. Also we have been to Bonaire nine times for a total of about 25 weeks and have never dove of the pier a Captain Dons, not any special reason just never had any reason to. I could care less what any operations charges to dive off their docks in Bonaire, we seem to find plenty of places to dive without worring about such a small thing. We be back in Feb. for three weeks, can't wait.

Happy Diving & don't worry just enjoy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Wahlig on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:28 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Everyone keeps saying "and there are 50+ other site to go to". But for how long? Andrea I is already being privately developed and may not be accessible, at least is was pretty much cut off last year. When Andrea I & II are gone, then what's next?

I think the larger issue is that this is setting a precedent. A dangerous, downward spiral precedent. I've already had the run in 6 years ago with the Black Durgeon and it really left a bad taste in my mouth. I have NEVER returned there.

I would wish that somehow, all BMP published/recognized sites that are physically shore dive-able be required by law to have reasonable free public access provided. If the government could pull this off, then the Habitat issue is not a problem because they have the beach access already and the fee for their facilities is reasonable and within their rights. The future of "diving freedom" on Bonaire must be protected from private development. Otherwise, Bonaire will turn into boat dives only. And then I will be truly sad because I love shore diving at MY pace, with My group, on My schedule.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gail-the Dux on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:32 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just read your post on Americans and having to own a little bit of paradise, then checked out your profile, and seeing you're an agricultural engineer. We've got a little bit of paradise right here in West Texas, we'd sure be willing to sell you 5000 acres of prime, irrigated farm land that you could make a little money with. At this point we could move to Bonaire and truly enjoy life and have a BIG smile on our faces. Bubbles to ya'

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 11:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

John,

By your argument, the Black Durgon could be said to have been setting the precedent, not Habitat. And since their policy has been around for at least 6 years, does not have the alternative that Habitat has, and yet has not brought on any kind of precedent-followers, the argument seems pretty baseless.

Is Andrea I where that gawdawful tacky greek- revival-palace-temple monstrosity is going up? If I remember correctly from a conversation with Jake, the owners of that place are not American, by the way. I wonder if they will have to open up the shore dive after construction is complete. Jake?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott and sharon barlass on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 12:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

John,
Your information about Andrea is wrong. Public access to both sites, and public access to the entire "beach" is part of the development agreement. Don't lose any sleep worrying about this one!

Scott

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gail Thomas on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 1:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The Black Durgon is a very small Inn, with only 10 rooms. I, for one, am very grateful that Al sticks to his "Guests Only" policy. When our group is there with 15 - 18 divers, there is no room for any others in the suiting up area. I would resent waiting for walk-ins to suit up and dive, to access the gear locker, etc. Besides, the reef behind the Black Durgon Inn is not a recognized marked dive site. And in my short 3 year of diving Bonaire, I have never even entertained the though of diving where I wasn't staying. That just doesn't seem right. (To me anyway)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 1:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Gail,

I agree with you. And I doubt either the Black Durgon policy or the Habitat policy is any indication of a downward spiral of the quality of a Bonaire vacation.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 2:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan & Gail

Well said; if free access is not an issue then please can the sound of one hand clapping many times slip silently into the blue.

PLEASE

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 4:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Gail the Dux~

I have a saying "Farmers aren't very good business people or they will not be farmers". They could make much more money by investments than by worrying whether there is a profitable crop in the field... You said it correctly when you stated "a little money with"! If you were rich like most Americans' think you are; you can have your farm and Bonaire too! Than again there's an old Irish saying that says "Ground is forever"...

Dive Safe, Jimini

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan flubacher on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 5:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

if we are talking about ca. 5 guest-divers a day, like jake said, what is this all about???
is habitat not able to deal with that small amount of visitors? i don't get the point.
susan, right now someone is checking the red buttons to see if people have paid the five bucks. but it's not possible to check guest-cards!?
besides, they won't need a perfect system that controles everyone and every move, and no person that controles buttons all day;-)
anyway, habitat is of course entitled do whatever they want, i just think it's a pitty this way.
and i still believe that susan and some others will not see what's going on until it's too late to stop it.

jan

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan,

Right now no one is checking the red buttons - it's an honor system. I'm curious, does that not translate well (I'm not trying to be nasty, I just am trying to understand why you don't understand)?

I'm sure that if one of the divemasters happens to notice someone using the facilities who neither has a red tag nor is recognized by the divemaster as being a guest of the Habitat, they might approach them; still, I'd be willing to bet that they might not even bother unless that person is doing something that is inconveniencing a paying guest.

This whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion. You're acting like chicken little ("the sky is falling! the sky is falling!"), making assumptions, while really not having a clue about what it's like there.

I see exactly what's going on: outside divers have to use the beach (with the nice path along the water and the stairs) instead of the dock, just like they do at so many OTHER dive sites.

Oh, the humanity!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 10:48 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

And, if you read far enough back here, in a couple of places, Jason says straight out that he started this thread simply as agitation. Some people do 'agitate' easily.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jason thomas on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 10:57 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Glen thats not what I said. Thanks for being the BT police. I started the thread to get the ball rolling on peoples opinions. Apathy sucks.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 11:07 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

A reporter approaches a man on the street.

Reporter: "Sir, what do think about a recent survey that indicates most people are ignorant and apathetic?"

Man on the Street: "I don't know and I don't care."

Says it all.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marion Wilson on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 4:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Heaven's above! What a lot of words over such a simple principle - that being the one where if you own something, it is up to you what you do with it. Wow!
Marion.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 6:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The simple solution....AGREE TO DISAGREE!

Wish I were in Bonaire! :)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leif S on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 6:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

"Only trolls charge tolls"
...and...
"Utilities do not have to be freebies."

I am now weighing in on this subject as follows:
I sit firmly and decidly on exactly the middle of the fence. (ouch; that could hurt).
Allow me to elaborate...

A $5 fee to use specific, utility-like AMENITIES like a shower, rinse tank, etc. is fine and logical.

A $5 fee to simply walk down a sidewalk that happens to end with a jump into the water is not.

If the $5 fee is clearly indicated as a charge to use the resort's very nice functional infrastructure, then fine; I will either pay it gladly or, being the cheapskate that I am, decide not use those amenities at all. If, however, I am being expected to pay $5 just to walk to the shore and jump in - using my own gear and tanks from my preferred (perhaps cheaper) dive shop, and not rinse off until I got back to my own "home base", then forget it! There are plenty of other sites, and as heretofore noted, I am a cheapskate, after all.

Further still, while the showers, rinse tanks, lockers, etc. are all "utility" installations for which a fee for use may be rational, a fee to use the dock as opposed to the beach is not. It would be the same as charging $1 for the privilege of passing through the hotel lobby. Only trolls would charge such tolls! (ooh - that sounds like a protest motto if I ever heard one, if I do say so myself, and I think I just did...)

Perhaps any and all resorts should clarify the matter. They do, after all, exist in symbiosis with each other. If one resort starts leaving sour tastes in too many diver's mouths, the trade for all of them could suffer.

At my office the landlord "owns" the elevator, but you better believe there is never a charge to go up or down, whether you are a tenant or a visitor. Dive piers, like sidewalks, lobbies, elevators and the like, are common areas, and it is neither polite nor kosher to charge anyone just for the privilege of using them. This is not inconsistent with the small fee charged for spending just a day at Sorobon; they provide services in exchange for the fee, that being maintenance of their tall fence and provision of a reserved place for conduct that if found at a "public" place would be illegal.

-LS

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glenn Fager on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 9:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jason,

That’s two people you’ve “thanked” for being the “BT Police”.

1) You’re welcome.
2) If my fellow sheriff and I hadn’t made your original intentions known to the people of this thread (“My agro post was to get some people typing. I didnt feel like this thread was getting the attention and serious response it deserves.“), we would be guilty of apathy, the very thing you so eloquently stated “sucks”.

I’m going to make another attempt at assisting the thick-skulled in understanding the situation with an analogy:

Jake charges money for extra user options on this website. You can use the site for free, but you have to pay for the extras. Capt. Don’s charges money for extra services at the resort. You can dive for free, but you have to pay for the extras. By your reasoning, to be upset with Jack, you would have to be upset with Jake. Also by your reasoning, Jake has sent a dangerous precedence, one he “may not be able to stop”, for everyone with a website is no longer going to allow you to use it for free. To borrow Jason’s quote, “Shame on you..” Jake. For now, not only will we have to pay for an ISP, we’ll have to pay for every website we log into, instead of having many other ones to choose from for free.

By the way, when Jake made the decision to start charging for extras, it started an outrage on this board that rivaled this thread. I don’t hear any more whining about that subject thankfully.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 9:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Glenn,

I like the analogy - minor point of correction though: The "extras" are on the Bonaire WebCams site, not on BonaireTalk :-) (Although even that confusion resulted in misdirected outrage - jeez)

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt III on Friday, August 9, 2002 - 7:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The simplest solution, NO fees and allow No off property divers. Solves Habitats guests problems, and those that want something for nothing get exactly that nothing.

As one who has been seriously inconvenienced many times by rude off property divers I can say this would be the simplest solution.

This is getting very boring with everyone repeating what everyone else has already stated.

Why don't we find another topic to beat to death?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe chandler on Friday, August 9, 2002 - 10:10 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

>

Good idea. how about some more pictures of those places that are too deep for everyone else to see?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Friday, August 9, 2002 - 11:59 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wouldn't it be ironic if this particular BonaireTalk thread Jason started "to fight apathy" resulted in one or more resorts simply banning non-guest divers from using their property for access to a dive spot because they may have been contemplating a fee and have come to the conclusion that it's too much grief to take half measures? :-)

And on that note, discussion is closed, as I agree with Walt. Beaten to death...

Jake

 


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