In a few weeks, we'll be on our third trip to Bonaire. Each time I've said I wanted to try to the wild side, but somehow never managed it. Well, this time we have a full two weeks, so I think this may well be the year we finally get out there.

From what I understand, there are two ways to go about this..a guided shore dive or on one of those RIB thingees. I'm wondering what everybody's preference is? Truthfully, am also wondering which is the easier method? I've got my AOW and have logged about 150 dives, but am not the most--how do I put this--graceful person during entry and (particularly)exit. Even places like Ol' Blue or 1000 steps are a bit of a struggle for me. OTOH, I think I could roll off a boat easily enough, but getting back in...

Any advice?

Larry's Shore & Wild Side Diving.

Do not try it on your own.

A strong second for Larry's Wildside - EXCELLENT. Once you have done this you can understand why Larry says he has not done a dive on the west side for years and years. Go with Larry then with some experience you can try the shore dive at Cai perhaps.

Try this link: http://www.larryswildsidediving.com/
pictures removed at Larry's request


(Message edited by modcynde on December 2, 2008)

(Message edited by modcynde on December 8, 2008)

pictures removed at Larry's request



(Message edited by modcynde on December 8, 2008)

pictures removed at Larry's request


(Message edited by modcynde on December 8, 2008)

pictures removed at Larry's request


(Message edited by modcynde on December 8, 2008)

So far, everybody seems to prefer Larry and his RIB to a guided shore dive.

If you want to shore dive the wildside I highly suggest emailing Bas (I think his email address is looneybin@bonairelive.com) and hiring him as your guide. We went on a great dive with him and I feel it is well worth it to hire someone who knows the area as well as he does. He ran us through an in depth profile of our dive so there were no surprises. The day we went the waves weren't too bad but, they built up while we were diving and from what I have heard, this is fairly common. After our dive he went in to rescue two divers who had gone out on their own. I mean rescue too, that woman really would not have made it without his assistance. IMHO, even hiring a guide, I feel you must be an experienced diver to shore dive the wild side.

Good Stuff Dan. It brought back great memories of the Wild side. Thank you.

Sorrows - definitely make the time to do it. Graceful or not, RIB and shore each have their own difficulties because of the waves. That's why it's called the Wild Side. But, you'll enjoy it no matter how difficult you 'might' find it.As everyone said, use a guide and don't attempt it yourself.

Go for it!!!!

I agree with Diane.. Bas is a great guide!

Haven't heard from him in AGES!!!! Would love to know how you are doing, Bas???

Do get in touch: sbryett@ntlworld.com

xx

Considering your concern about entry and exit (which I share) I would recommend Larry's, however if the wind is calm then I know it will be a much easier/exit for a guided shore dive. I was on the island for the middle two weeks of November and they were experiencing unusually calm winds, and a number of individuals were talking about East side shore dives. If you decide that you want to try one then in addition to Bas, Yellow Submarine also offers East Side guided dives on Thursday morning.

If you want to check the wind predictions while on the island then check out http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?sc=56
If you see no stars under the time you think you want to go, then shore dive is an option.

We have gone on Larry's RIB (not a typical trip as it was dead calm), and have done Lac Cai from shore with Bas. Both were great but the shore dive (which after all is our #1 reason for going to Bonaire) was one of our favorite dives of all time. Bas does an excellent and detailed briefing, and his dive plan allows for an extended and varied dive. Our bottom time was 96 minutes. Entry via the boat channel is easy, exit in surf a bit more challenging, but none of us (2 late forties reasonably fit but not athletic, one 18 yr old) had any trouble. The dive included the largest turtle we've seen anywhere, squadrons of eagle rays, schools of tarpon, nurse shark, some unusual small fish and critters. And I would rather dive with a guide in a small group than with a larger group from a boat.

Either way, though, it is worth the effort and the cost.

Thanks for the advice! And thanks for the link to that windguru site, Gord!

BTW, I am the very LAST person who would attempt this without a guide. Not exactly a hot rodder, if you know what I mean; I leave that to my teenager! As for me, I'm not after any great adventure--I just like to look at pretty and/or unusual fish!

Actually, I think I would prefer a guided shore dive to the RIB--if the wind is calmer than usual. Last year at Christmas time it was definitely not calm. Visibility was down in both the northern (Ol' Blue) and southern (Angel City) sites.

I will try to contact Bas, as you suggest, Diane. I assume he also conducts guided tours of the extreme Southern sites?

I am happy to add my endorsment of Bas Tol to the list...Dove with him and my daughters 16 and 18 for one of our best dives..he is also available for all other areas of Bonaire.. hey loonybin...cain't wait to get back to the garden

Bas is terrific, Larry is terrific, the east side is terrific. Do it all! Laura, call me if you want to discuss.

I'm coming back to Bonaire on December 12th for my eight or ninth trip. I would not want to leave without diving the east side. It's amazing.

Doing Cai at night with Bas was probably one of the best dives I've ever gone on. He know's where all the little creatures like to hide. Give it a try!

Would love to contact Bas, but the link upthread doesn't appear to be the correct one--at least, my e-mail was bounced back to me! Anybody have another contact for Bas?

Thanks!

it's loonybin instead of looneybin

Thanks, Bas! I just sent you a message!

Dan, I had to remove the pictures from Larry's website. Folks, remember that pinching pics is a copyright violation.

Thanks,

Cynde

ModCyn, Larry's site does not have a copyright notice on it. And I wouldn't be surprised if he is delighted to have his pictures "pinched," especially with attribution as Dan did.

I would add to Mel Briscoe's post. As an academic, I deal constantly with copyright issues, both in terms of my students' papers and my own. Books are copyrighted - but may be quoted or paraphrased so long as that material is properly attributed.

Larry's website, copyrighted or not, is indeed his intellectual property. However, I believe that Dan's post was proper because it did include attribution. To be really careful, he may want to have included an informal, semi-standard URL citation - the name of the page and its link.

With that said, I prefer the homegrown photography of BT-er's to that of the pro's - although, truth be told, there are some BT-er's whose work is every bit as good, and often better, than work published commercially. So, I don't miss those images (beautiful as they are) as much as I would love to see images from BT-er's.

Peace,

John

(Message edited by cyndelee on December 2, 2008)

Mel and John, we also noticed no copyright notice on Larry's page, however, we emailed Larry, and he asked that the photos be removed, so we complied

(Message edited by modcynde on December 2, 2008)

If any of you are interested in seeing photos from my two dives with Larry in 2006 follow the link below. No copyright issues that I am aware of, as I was behind the lens for all of them.

http://gordalder.com/Vacations/bonaire/_bonaire_2006_13.htm

Thanks for the info, ModCyn. It puts things in proper perspective and lessens the 'sting' of the pinching pictures comment...8^)

Peace,

John

"we emailed Larry, and he asked that the photos be removed"

Works for me, but if he feels that way he really ought to copyright the site, otherwise he has no recourse. Not everybody is as nice as the BT folks.

(Message edited by cyndelee on December 2, 2008)

Mel, I also suggested to Larry that he put a copyright notice on his webpage

John, I said "pinched"...to me that was a "light" comment...maybe I better go look it up on Urban Dictionary ;-)

Gord, nice pics

I guess my "alter ego" has been exposed ;-)

Modcyn: my second heads up on posting pics although I gave due credit to Larry and do apologize to him. I will post some of my own instead from a couple of months ago. Given my professional experiences I am cautious of copyright issues and never would use any materials not given proper credit. I only hoped to stimulate a poster's interest in Larry's operation which I think is fantastic.

Dan, I know your intentions were good, no worries

Larry gets great reviews on BT, however, this was his email to the moderators:

---

quote:

please take the photos off BT as i think this is totally wrong as i am not happy with BT anyway

---

I have to agree with Larry, I would be unhappy with BT as well if they promoted by business in a positive manner, spoke highly of me, and recommended me to potential new customers.

How strange?

I know I am getting into all kinds of garbage, but one reason why Larry would not be happy is this very thread. I am sure he likes the positive comments about him, if he cares at all. However, this very thread also mentions and highly recommends Bas, the loonybin one. Believe me, bas is a friend and I highly respect his diving skills. However, he does not have a diving license, which makes his guided diving simply illegal. Instruction, guiding and transporting divers within the Bonaire Marine Park requires a proper permit. In addittion he never did any of the necessary investments to be able to guide anyone, such as the purchase of tanks, compressors, the exhausting and/or extremely expensive process to get a license, or go out and advertise, market himself on shows and what not. Never mind carrying insurance. Considering the above, I think that to even mention Bas and Larry in the same thread might be offensive to Larry. I would imagine that Larry would be a lot happier with BT if these facts were recognized by this board and then acted upon accordingly when on island. For example anyone that wishes to dive with Bas can do so, if you hire him thru an official dive operator, such as Larry, or any other. Larry must then(want to)hire Bas on a per hour basis probably, and then charge you accordingly. And since you guys now know, here is another troubling situation: simply solliciting someones services that are illegal is...against the law.
m2c
Bart

Bart, you aren't going to get into any garbage for your post. I can certainly understand why legit operators don't like the promotion of a service that is 1) not legal, and 2) competing for business.

I (speaking for myself as a moderator) want to do what's right. Our posting policies don't really cover this area at all. We have been working on a new policy (for months), but the mods haven't been able to come to an agreement on some of the issues. Maybe this is something we need to discuss.

As always, feedback from the community and business owners on Bonaire is ALWAYS welcome.

(Message edited by modcynde on December 3, 2008)

Bart, I had no idea. Thanks for the info.

Bas is an excellent guide, and I would be happy to hire him through one of the licensed operators. i do not see him as in competition with Larry, since what they do is so different.

I will keep this information in mind.

It would be a far, far better thing to hear Larry's point of view from Larry himself. either on BT or directly to the mods alone.

Bart is certainly entitled to express his own opinion about Larry's position. However, here he is putting down Bas under the guise of giving his explanation of what Larry may be thinking.

This same allegation about Bas has appeared before recently. Until a crime has been proven, allegations like these are slanderous in themselves. If Bas is acting illegally that is a matter to be dealt with on Bonaire.

Let the inter-party bickering and backbiting of competitors be done on the island and not on BT.

Oooooeeehhhh thin ice Bart...:-)).

Ha Menno, I guess I kinda knew that :-) This is why almost none of the businesses never, ever post..Hey Glenn, lighten up man, you react like a little child having your toy taken away, it ain't that serious!! At least not to me.

I cannot even remember how many times I ran thru a red light (and since there are no traffic lights on Bonaire, it has been 20 years :-)), downloaded music illegally, smoked a cigarette in the toilet of a restaurant, and what not. Alert the bloody authorities!!!I certainly cannot remember how many times I have asked Bas to guide divers that signed up with my dive shop over the years. Many times at no charge to guest or Bas, while at the same time looking the other way. In fact, I filled his tanks for free to facilitate this, many many times. To boot, in doing so, I provided Bas with a bit of an umbrella of legality and insurance, should he ever need such. My post is hardly slanderous or bickering and certainly not back biting. I stated the following. I consider Bas a friend and I respect his skills. I see him just about every week, while we dive the same site. Great, by the way! We use each others drawing in the sand for our briefings. I tried to find a very clear (and friendly) explanation for Larry not liking BT. Thanks to posts such as Glenn's, I understand Larry's position even a little better, besides the reasons stated, HA!!. Now the truth still stands. Diving in the Bonaire Marine Park commercially in any shape or form requires a permit, Glenn. To guide, transport, and/or teach divers, for example. Doing so without permit is illegal. Period. For honesty's sake: ask Bas to show his permit to you when you ask for his services. If Bas has one, it will state what he can and cannot do, but he told me himself that he does not have one. Now, to obtain such a permit is next to impossible. Bas has made it his specialty to dive right where Larry dives as well: the East Coast. Larry went thru the grueling effort and investment to get and exploit a permit. I am sure that to then see on this board, that Bas is being openly promoted does not exactly rub Larry the right way, whaddaya think :-)? Last question. Glenn, suppose that I am right, what will you do? Call me slanderous again? Man, you must have been stuck in traffic somewhere, tappin'the ol' blackberry. Other than that I agree with you, Glenn, I am just assuming; let Larry state whatever he thinks, should he care at all.
In the mean time I will continue to run a red light occassionally (far, far away from here :-)), or more to the point, ask Bas occassionally to dive the East Coast with guests of mine.
SSHHHH, don't tell anyone....

Oh yeah, the answer to Sorrow's question is as far as I am concerned: Go for both options, regardless with whom. The East Coast is awesome!!!!

Menno, I'll thicken the ice for Bart just a bit. Fact is he is correct. Although many(myself included) have enjoyed diving with Bas, I believe Bart has made many valid points as to why Larry's legal business would be unhappy with how Bas has and is promoted on this board. Bart would be the last one to tell us he has surely lost his share of business in this way. Both Larry and Bart are among the many who have made the effort to apply and obtain proper license and insurance to conduct guided dives on Bonaire. I'm also sure it wasn't free to do that, and we all know insurance is an ongoing expense. Food for thought, people.

As much as I hate to say this, I cannot continue to endorse Bas as a guide for hire unless it is through an operation such as the ones mentioned previously. He is the "East Side King", a barrel of fun and an all round nice guy. I just wish he had the legal status to work on his own.

John,

Well said.....

As a business owner who abides by all regulations, laws, and taxes, it drives me nuts to see "shade tree" guys taking my business.
They are able to undercut my prices because they don't have the overhead associated with doing business legally.

I understand how Bart feels. And I have to say I commend him for keeping his cool as well as he has - I'm not so sure I could show as much restraint.

Frankly, if he is not licensed and doesn't have the proper insurance, he should not be referenced on the board for services.. you don't allow people to post about crime without a police report.. how can you let someone advertise as a business without proper bona fide's?

Mr. Wiggins, please show me/us where Bas has advertised on this board? The last time I looked, the only advertising on this board is contained within the banner ads which appear at the top of each page and directly under the last post.

Tom is correct. Bas T doesn't advertise. People have mentioned him as a shore dive guide but he has never promoted his own business. In the same manner, a lot of people recommend various people to rent places from but the owners themselves don't (and aren't allowed to) promote their own places. Let's not make this any more complicated than it is.

When I was on the fire department we started off with a couple of rules about who would or could work overtime. Then a situation would arise and another rule would be put in place. By the time I retired I'll bet we had almost a hundred rules and you could have put a person's name next to each one. I'd hate to see than happen here.

I've dived with Larry numerous times and will do so again later in the month when I'm there. I'm a walking billboard for Larry because I think if someone dives Bonaire and hasn't done the Wild Side they haven't seen the best diving in Bonaire. I thinks this discussion is silly because I suspect BT has brought Larry as much business as those signs he's got posted around town. I first found out about him here as have many others. We then talked up his excellent service, great boat, and superb dives. On the other hand, if someone here thinks Bas, without a license, can take me on a great shore dive I'd like to hear about it. If that bothers Larry, so what? If he doesn't want his pictures posted then take them down. If your conscience bothers you for referring someone to Bas because he's got no license then tell them he's not licensed. I agree that I hope this board doesn't become so restricted we'll need a rule book to know what to post. Furthermore, I think Larry is mistaken not to post his pictures on BT--those pictures will just bring more people his way. For those of you who don't know Larry--he's one very cool dude!

Why can't Bas get a license? Does Bonaire only allow one or 2 to dive the east side? That's not fair either.

I'm with Bill on this one. There are all kinds of recommendations on this board for dive shops, lodging, car rentals, and etc. Why pick on those who like and recommend Bas.

For the record, I have never personally recommended or used his services.

Deborah - I believe it's because there are a set number of licenses, and if they are all taken, you have to wait for one to become available. (Kind of like liquor licenses in most cities) I also believe they are fairly expensive to obtain. I hope someone who has more information will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

Beck-ee... - As far as I know you are right. The market is closed for new dive-licenses. You either need to buy an existing one (which will come extremely expensive for this very same reason) or you have to come with such a great and new, not yet existing, business idea that the government would be stupid to withhold you a new license.
Sadly, in this case, guided dives wherever around this island at whatever time of day with whatever kind of light is not (and far from) a new or great business idea and absolutely no new money maker for the island so will very unlikely result is getting a new license. (I think both Bas' (and others) can second that, because I do believe they have tried. Over and over again.....)
For the few around there who want to do it anyway there are (at this moment) only two choices left: Work together with (or for) an existing dive operator or just do it independently and see what happens....
Those who choose to do it independently are the ones we (at least I and if I am correct Bart as well) refer to as illegal businesses. If they offered there services free of charges - by all means have fun and knock yourselves out, but, some do charge a fee..... That is the illegal part and that should be stopped. That is the part where the license is needed for and that comes with a hugh investment....... Sadly, due to this hugh investment existing operators can not offer the services like discussed above and before..... That is sad and there is a way around that:
Maybe you 'all' can ask your diveshop (the one who provides your Marine Park Tag, your MP orientation, your tank-fills etc.) to set up a guided dive with your favorite guide and ask them how you should expect to pay for that service; Direct in cash to your guide or at your diveshop at check-out. This might take the sharp edges somewhat away from this subject, but, that's just me......
(FYI: I am called a moron, rude and stupid frequently before and that has been confirmed by others.....)
I like to end this one with the following:
Enjoy your divetrip. That is what it is all about and that is what your dive-operator should always keep in mind as well; It's YOUR dive-trip!!!

Here is what I think would work:

The Bonaire government hands out a permit to independent operators who have proven themselves on the island to operate as dive guide with the stipulation that this occurs under a contract with one (or more) of the licenses dive operators on the island. That way people have the freedom to choose their dive guide and it all happens legally and with payments of all fees and taxes. I am curious whether this is something that the dive operators (like Menno and Bart) would agree with. In my opinion dive guides like me and Bas Tol are not interested in renting out tanks and equipment etc so this could all be excluded in the terms of the permit.

So:
- A diver is registered with a licensed dive operator for tanks, marine park tag etc
- The diver chooses to dive with an independent guide
- The guide has a contract with a licensed dive operator and has a permit from the government to allow this
- The diver gets to dive with his/her preferred guide

Sounds good?

There was a few months ago a meeting at Captain Don's Habitat between all licensed dive-operators about this issue because the moratorium (THE bible for (new) dive-licenses) had proven not to bring the wished for result. The intention of that meeting was to get all licensed operators' nooses pointing into the same direction and to put that direction on paper for the government to review (or ignore).
If I am correct a (sort of) possibility as you describe was mentioned (and 'approved') and, for a fact, I have voted in favor for such a license. It happens anyway so why not tax it !!(haha)
What happened further is not known to me, but maybe Bruce Bowker can help out. He is the chairman of CURO and might have received an answer or reply.

Hey Sorrows, you got to dive the East Coast, it is awesome!!

However no can do with Larry no moh. Sold his boat! please post facts, not speculation

(Message edited by modcynde on December 8, 2008)

That is a sort of shock that Larry sold his boat. I talked with him in October and he expressed a desire to get out of the business then. Guess it finally happened. Very sorry to see him leave. His operation was fantastic and the diving awesome. Is anyone taking over the boat and dive op or not?

Pardon my ignorance, but do any other dive ops run boat trips to the east side? I guess I've never checked.

I thought a BT poster said Yellow Sub did from time to time? Can't remember of find the post however.

Thanks Dan, I'll do some digging. My dive shop is going in March and a few of us were hoping to dive with Larry

Wait.....if Larry sold his boat and you can't dive with him anymore, then what are the "legal" alternatives for guided east side dives?

Most Dive opps have this. I do know Wannadive and Dive-Friends have this guided dive.

Hi
I know that Bruce has gone to the East coast occasionally. My daughters dove with him there a couple of years ago. I also saw one of Plaza's boats there in October this year.
Mick

As far as I know text removed, "grapevine" I would not automatically assume that his boat being sold means no more wild side boat diving.

As far as guided east coast dives from shore are concerned...many of Bonaire's dive operators offer guided shore dive at Lac Cai and some other sites. Wannadive (Bart Snelders operation) is one of them. I am not one to automatically assume that Bas Tol is operating illegally so I also count him in. Self promotion is not allowed so do NOT contact me or Blue Divers for east coast ;-)

(Message edited by modcynde on December 8, 2008)

There is also that guy with that big camera known to me as 'the 'Nurseshark Wisperer'. Not illegal either - he just seems to have lot's of friends diving with him over and over again....

Hopefully Larry got what a wanted from this deal and that the company will keep on existing although Gijs' Wildside diving sounds somewhat strange....:-)) If true: Good luck Gijs!!

ugh...OK, I've removed the "hearsay" from some posts. Sorry Bart, Bas, you know I love you guys. We are talking about someone's business and livelyhood, think about what you would want someone else posting about your business.

That said, Bart, Bas, see ya in a little over a month

Cynde

(Message edited by modcynde on December 8, 2008)

Thanks for mopping up Cynde. Didn't know how to do that. (Born outside the ol' computer age and all that) It was a stupid post.
Bartman

No problem Bart You have 10 minutes to edit a post, after that, us mods have to do it.

Heck, I'm a lot older than you, I know you aren't THAT old (computer age)...although Tom IS older than I am.

And there is NO such thing as a stupid post ;-) LOL!

No problem Cynde. See you in January!

Just emailed Larry today. He replied right away and said that he is restructuring his business but he is still in business and running trips.

Andy

Folks,
It is official. I received an email on Tuesday from Larry stating "i regret to inform you that i just sold the boat and truck". We had reservations with Larry to dive next Thursday so he was writing to inform us the dive was off.

Sad day :-(