By David Frank (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #684) on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 8:07 pm: |
From Undercurrent online:
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By Dr. Director (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #436) on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 8:56 pm: |
While I don't doubt the importance of what the researchers have found, I believe they (or perhaps Undercurrent, of which I am a subscriber) may be misrepresenting some of the facts. Are they saying that the 5,000 tons of sunscreen that wash off people in oceans annually all comes from divers (as I believe is implied in the statement) or does it come from all people who use our oceans. And if from all people, then what percentage of that 5,000 tons comes only from divers. Perhaps some other BTer's have additional facts to add.
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By Scott Knobler (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 11:46 am: |
Dr. Director...with all due respect, I think that you are missing the point. The point here is that sunscreen does damage the reefs. I don't see anywhere that implies that this is solely from divers, it just appears in a diving publication.
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By Gerald Huppertz (BonaireTalker - Post #49) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 1:22 pm: |
This is very interesting so I did some quick searches on google and found a lot of information. Many resort destination ask you to wear reef-safe sunscreen, some even give you small tubes of it for free for the snorkelers. I will definately be picking up some for our April trip to Bonaire. So far I have only found this site that advertises reef-safe sunscreen.
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By Snowfire (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #531) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 1:31 pm: |
Here's a link to the actual study, for those who'd like to know more:
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By Cecil (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6085) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 1:36 pm: |
Got to go with the good Doctor on this, this warning is based on one very shakey experiment. He enclosed the coral in a closed tubes and exposed them to differing amounts of the active ingredients in sunscreen. It died, OK where's the water exchange that happens in real coral.
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By Scott Knobler (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 1:48 pm: |
Cecil, this is not the only experiment done on this. I think you should investigate a little more before coming to your conclusion. To compare it to an urban myth is misguided.
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By Lloyd Haskell (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #119) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 2:17 pm: |
Channkanaab Lagoon in Cozumel died after about ten years exposure to snorkelers using sunscreen , fact not myth . To think that the small amount of sunscreen one person may use in the sea is like saying a few drops of bulk oil wont hurt either . If its artificial dont use it , there are natural sunscreens avaliable everywhere that leave no more pollution than a bit of lemon peel .
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By Jennifer Parmley (BonaireTalker - Post #48) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 2:25 pm: |
Does the report state what ingredients specifically are harmful to the reef? I know when we were in Mexico at Xel-Ha they were very strict about not putting on sunscreen before snorkeling.
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By Snowfire (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #534) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 2:33 pm: |
Hello Lloyd -- Is there a link describing this study? All I could find was this link, but it's more about the damage caused by dolphin enclosures, etc.
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By Lloyd Haskell (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #120) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 2:45 pm: |
Im going on what i saw , in 1988 it was a pristine coral garden enclosed in a natural lagoon . I went back every year and saw the decline untill it was totally bleached white with just a few parrot fish left . Then they closed it and started protecting the ocean side , it too is bleached dead . It use to be one of the best places in the world to snorkle. When you see destruction happen that fast it makes you realize the effect we have on the sea.
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By Lloyd Haskell (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #121) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 2:50 pm: |
Wearing sunscreen around the coral reef is like smoking in a car with children.
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By Scott Knobler (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #110) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 3:03 pm: |
Exactly, thank you Lloyd!
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By Cecil (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6087) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 3:21 pm: |
Yes we are inherently environmentalists, but I am also an engineer and on the skeptical side especially when I hear something like this where a few grams of something is going to cause a mass killing of anything in billions of gallons of dilution.
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By Tad Jones (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #121) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 3:26 pm: |
Lloyd,
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By Lloyd Haskell (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #122) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 3:46 pm: |
The actual lagoon part of channkanaab closed in the early 1990s. Hey Cecil , I hope you are right , ive seen people pour that stuff on them and snorkle in the shallows for hours . If your dilution theory is correct the ozone should be ok as well. whew!
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By Steve Jorgensen (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #115) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 5:34 pm: |
OK -- I have to ask -- what would be an eco-friendly sunscreen that I might be able to pick up at home here in the states? Gerald included a website that looks promising. What other choices are there?
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By Dr. Director (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #437) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 6:07 pm: |
Since I started the questioning of the study, let me restate my points, but do it separately:
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By Fid Chinoy (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 9:20 pm: |
People with fair complexions definitely need to put something on their skin to protect themselves from the harmful effects of over-exposure. Aside from severe sunburn, there is also skin cancer and extreme misery.
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By Glen Reem (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2689) on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 10:33 pm: |
I read the same material in an article in CDNN online, about research from Italy.
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By bob...no april showers) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2520) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 6:37 am: |
your skin could very well become tolerant of the bonaire sun...with enough visits...i do not use sun screen anymore...
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By Snowfire (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #535) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:49 pm: |
I am extremely grateful for any research that will make me aware of environmentally-safe alternatives, and have not worn any sunscreen in the ocean since becoming aware of this issue.
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By Dr. Director (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #439) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 2:50 pm: |
When I made my original post, I had not read the full article. Was only commenting on the implications. I have since read the full article, which includes information/estimates on how much total sunscreen is manufactured, how much is used in tropical areas, how much washes off, the percentage of coral reefs in the tropical areas, etc. Also details on their test methodology, and the specific problem-causing ingredients. Did not directly/solely implicate divers, so it seems the alarmist title and implication that the 5,000 tons were from divers may have been more from Undercurrent. And while I may not agree with the test methodology, at least I now have some additional information on which to decide what to do.
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By David Frank (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #685) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 5:13 pm: |
Dr. Director,
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By Glen Reem (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2690) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 7:43 pm: |
Ah, yes, headline writers! All the same the world over: suck in the reader regardless of how benign the real content may be. TKS for the update, Dr. :–))
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By Snowfire (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #549) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 7:53 pm: |
Dave wrote:
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By John "Smack" Anderson (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1506) on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 10:16 am: |
Hummm...cover up? Stay away from the man-made SPF chemicals? I think I like that approach. Must be why I don't use the stuff in the first place. If I could only say the same thing about Deet.
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By Kristi Tennessee (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 9:26 pm: |
Does the article mention PABA free???
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By Yo MO (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3169) on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 3:53 pm: |
OK - I'm a "Janie come lately" to this discussion BUT - what exactly makes a sunscreen environmentally safe? Sorry but I HAVE to wear it. Yes - I wear a hat, a wetsuit, a do-rag, a rash guard and everything else but I also wear sunscreen on my face, hands and feet. I put it on exposed skin as soon as possible when I'm out of the water and try not to apply it too close the to time I am going in the water.
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By Diane Gutman (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
I think it is worth it the effort even if there is only a slight chance we are affecting the reefs and the creatures that live in them. I try bring a sunblock that lists Titanium Dioxide and/or Zinc Oxide as the only sunblock ingredient. It is a physical rather than chemical sun block made from ash. Draw back of course is that it turns your skin kind of white. It's almost impossible these days to find it as the only ingredient unless you go to a heath food store. I am an Aesthetician so skin care is very important to me. For the face I like to use Fallene Total Block www.totalblock.com, the tinted one works as makeup and the clear one only gives a very slight "whitishness" to my husbands beard area. They are both around 60 SPF.
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By Terry Armour (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #104) on Monday, March 3, 2008 - 8:25 pm: |
Make sure you use a low powered light so you don't blind anyone or cause the reef to fade!
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By Yo MO (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3232) on Monday, March 3, 2008 - 8:49 pm: |
Here's some info that was sent to me regarding natural marine friendly sunscreens. Sounds good to me... I don't know anything about these products so I can't tell you the best ones or anything but this is the second person to mention the titanium dioxide AND/OR Zinc Oxide so that's two more than before...
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By Gary Allman (BonaireTalker - Post #30) on Monday, March 3, 2008 - 10:14 pm: |
I'll just point out that the lowest concentration that they studied in that paper would be the equivalent of 450 gallons of sunscreen dumped on an area the size of Bari Reef, all at one time.
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By Barry Gassert (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #517) on Monday, March 3, 2008 - 10:50 pm: |
Amazing Gary. I was just thinking the same thing.
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