I was thinking of buying a wetsuit online instead of in store as up here everything is about 2-3x as much in cost and the nearest dive shop is a pain in the butt to get to. I'm about 6'1" to 6'2" and weigh about 200lbs give or take 15lbs depending on what type of shape i'm in that time of year. I can't figure out what size wetsuit to get, I was thinking an XL would be a good way to go for someone of my stature. If I'm at my "more ideal body weight" will the suit still be pretty effective or do you think it will give me trouble. I would think it's better to go too big than too small. Also if anyone knows about what size in numbering this would be, i would be forever grateful, i should say it's mens too, I did meet a female shawn once

XL Bare Suit fits 6'0 -6'2, with weight at 210-235 , chest 43-45 inches,waist at 37-39 inches,and hip at 43-45 inches .

Wow Bev! That was very thorough! Throwing a little bit of caution your way...my other half ran into problems with the fit around the wrist. He tried on several larges and x-larges before settling on a Bare L. He is 5'9 1/2 at 150 pounds. Our nephew ended up with XL Henderson Titanium Hyperstretch and he is 5'10 at 235 pounds. Fit really varies. Your best bet is to try one on and then order it on-line. Remember, if it is too big it won't keep you warm because the water will continuously flow in and out of the suit. You need a good fit.

i think you should try the henderson hyperstretch. it's very forgiving as far as gaining weight. they stretch enough that you would take a size or two smaller than normal. i normally wear a large and can wear a medium hyperstretch....i'm 6'0 and 185 lbs.

I am totally disgusted by this statement.

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quote:

Fit really varies. Your best bet is to try one on and then order it on-line.

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Sorry Tom. Is this better?

The way a wetsuit fits really varies based upon the actual size and shape of the person trying it on. You should find a store, try several different suits on, and then order it on line once you find a suit that fits you. Unless of course the store you are in had employees that were so kind and nice to you that you feel obligated to buy from them regardless of the cost.

Is that better and less offensive? (Wasn't sure which part you found offensive.)

Tom is a shop owner so anything less than buying in a shop so that if there are problems that an be addressed in the shop is unacceptical the worst case senario is that someone brings a suit to the shop that is split on its seams and they want some compensation....NOT!!

I think the point is to support your LDS (local dive shop) when possible. They are becoming a rare breed, and the big shops and online stores just can't provide the service you get at an LDS. It's a tough business...

I was not suggesting that someone try and defraud a shop. I'm sorry if it was taken that way. However in some of the bigger places, you can walk in, never be greeted, try on anything you like, leave without being acknowledged, and then order what you found on-line for a more reasonable price. (Like you could do in any mall type store.) Of course then, you should use the return policy of the on-line retailer and not attempt to fraudulently represent your problems to an unsuspecting dive shop owner. That said...this is BT and one would think that these things would be understood and not need an explanation.

Hi,

Another option. Shop Bonaire. I use Bruce's Carib Inn as my local dive shop. (We live in the Washington DC area, there are shops here, which we really do not use very much) Bruce has several of the brands mentioned above. And great prices. My spouse purchased his Henderson hyperstretch last year, well actually it was an early Christmas gift, at Bruce's. He loves it, but it was important to ry it on first. Sizing and all.

Lydia (and no I do not work for him)

So what you are saying Jeanine is that if a shop is big enough and impersonal enough it's alright ethically to make use of their inventory, lights, rent, heating or air conditioning, parking, location, and employees to try on things you have no intention of buying from them. Why stop there? You might as well just try the wetsuit on, find one that fits, put on your street clothes and wear it home. It's all the same, just a matter of degree.
Shawn should order himself several suits online and return the ones that do not fit, This is the ethical way to order online, and if the prices are truly 2-3 times his local dive shops, then he can easily afford the extra shipping. I certainly don't buy every single thing from my LDS, but then again, I don't dive around here or with them.
One more note, my local dive shop has VERY good equipment, and it lasts me quite a number of dives, they always stand behind what they sell, and they are always helpful with my problems. So a few more bucks might be worth the KNOWLEDGE they can impart, even if that is only evidenced in what inventory the select.

No Seb...that is not what I was saying. And if you ask someone who owns an on-line store, they complain when people don't order the right thing the first time. It wastes their time, money, and energy if you order excessively and make returns. Not to mention what that does to their bottom line. So there is no pleasing anyone.

What I am getting at is that we all comparison shop. If you say you don't then you are either lying or you have so much money that you cannot relate to the average person. No where in my mind does scuba diving translate into an elitist sport that only the rich can afford, nor should it for anyone. We all know that the major equipment needs to be purchased from a reputable dealer. But come on...you can buy wetsuits from your local chain sportings good store (not to mention the dive outlet stores in the popular areas).

Do you buy the first car you test drive? Is it unethical if you don't? You used their lights, their sales people, risked crashing their merchandise... Why not just take the car home and be done with it? There is much more risk with a car dealership and joy riders than there is in someone trying on some wetsuits. And if the sales staff is competent at the shop, they will be able to make the sale by explaining to the customer the reasons for purchasing through them. Come on, your analysis was not fair and you know it.

As for my original post, my concern was in helping Shawn (not the shop owners) and if you will read...I did state for him to get into a dive shop. If the shop can't sell him that is not my fault. My local shop is phenomenal and I always recommend them. I have bought everything from them and I even do my tank rentals with them, even though they are an hour from my house and I can usually get tanks a lot closer. I choose to stay with them because they are a small shop that takes the time to get to know their customers. I have been on dive trips with them and they were awesome when someone had an equipment problem. My shop has earned my loyalty. Considering that Shawn wrote "the nearest dive shop is a pain in the butt to get to," the assumption can be made that they have not yet earned his loyalty. Because let me tell you that when I get stuck in traffic for an hour and half or more sometimes trying to get to my preferred shop, I do think it is a real pain, but I still keep going.

I think that for an item like a wet suit when the fit is so important it would be best to use your LDS. When I bought my last wet suit the dive shop found the size I needed specially as the style had just been updated. Yes I could have bought it slightly cheaper but I would not have been sure that it fitted without a lot of hassle.

I understand Tom's position of disgust; I know how hard it is to compete in this market and I personally try to give my business to the locally owned place, whether it's a dive shop or not. When prices are reasonably close, I'll pay slightly more to support a locally owned store (again, dive shop or not) rather than a large corporate entity; I do this not only because I prefer the personalized service of the smaller shop, but also because of my own personal social/political beliefs.

But let's get real here; these are all businesses, not charities. When price differentials become too great, then my common sense dictates purchasing at the lower price. Two examples: my locally owned neighborhood variety store sells anti-perspirant for $6.00, Walmart has it for $2.49; I don't like giving my business to Walmart, but frugality with money is essential to MY financial survival. Second example: I love my LDS. They service my regs annually, and I trust 'em. I'll pay a couple of bucks more for smaller items just to help support them and to stop in and chat. But I was looking last year at a 1mm wetsuit that the manufacturer listed on their website as having a list price of $90. My LDS was charging $110. An online source had it for $58. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to do the math on this scenario.

Yes, support your LDS; they offer personalized service, advice, setup, and many other value added features. But I do believe that ultimately they are just a business like any other, and whether you buy a particular item from them has to do with many things, including price.

And Seb, while I often agree with ya, I think your position on this one is a tad off; stores are businesses, and browsing and trying on stuff is part of their business. Stores WANT you to come in and browse and try stuff on (or test drive a car), and if they're any good at what they do then you'll buy SOMETHING from them, come back again and buy something else, and tell your friends about it. And if their prices are WAY out of line, you'll make your purchase elsewhere.

What I want to know, Freddie... is what is "acceptical" ? LOL!

Lol well this is all becoming a bit crazy, didn't mean to create such a stir. I will probably go to the dive shop with my gf and have her and I try on things. I'll probably end up buying at least her boots there. I have bought from them in the past, I bought my snorkel, mask, prescription lenses, and boots from them for my last trip. They're just a bit on the expensive side and it's a 2 hour trip. I try to support the LDS, but it's not exactly local for me any more. Thanks for all your opinions and help, didn't mean to create such a stir.

Hey Kelly,
Perhaps that didn't read properly.. Tom being a shop owner has to deal with people coming into his shop with items that have been purchased online that need replacement or repairs.. It doesn't seem fair to me that Tom, or any other shop owner , would have to compensate these people even though he might carry the same brand item..
At my LDS , where I have purchased BIG ticket items and go on trips through the shop every year, If I come in with a price off the internet of lets say a wetsuit that sells at the shop for $350 the price on the internet is $299, My shop usually will come down on the price to the internet price,{as long as it isn't outrageous!!} But remember I have spent thousands of dollars at this shop this past year, and yes we get good deals or free air or numberous other surprises all year long..
I would never expect my LDS to service anything that I have purchased elsewhere,, We actually have a regulator that they do not sell, I have to take that reg to another dive shop for service, even though they could service it at my LDS I don't think it is fair of them to do so...does this make any sense??

OK here is my two cents on the subject. I stand with Tom on being disgusted. We had a unnamed person come into the shop, try on 6 BC'S asking all kind of questions about them taking up time that could have been spent on another customer. Finally decided to purchase said BC only to get on his cell phone and call discount scuba shop online and ask if they had the same type of BC in which they did at a cheaper price. The customer decided to buy from them instead of the LDS, because he saved $35 dollars with them. But here the funny part he when on a trip an the new BC power inflator did not work it fell a part in his hands. He came back from the trip and expected his LDS to fix it for him. We did an it cost him $55 dollars for the parts. So just remember buyer beware some deals are not deals at all. END OF RANT

I do not think that you LDS owners/employees should be disgusted at the consumer who chooses to buy elsewhere. Sometimes you have a right to be disappointed in a system that creates perhaps unfair competition, but a customer is just a human being who shops around and decides (based on numerous factors) where to ultimately buy. To me, it's that simple. And these factors are NOT just price. You have a very, very, valid point, Patrick, in that life support equipment, like a BC or regulator, requires setup, adjustment, service, repair, etc, and that the value that you add may very well be worth far more than the difference in price. It's obviously really important for you and other LDS employees (sales people, if you will) to SELL this value add to your customers. And don't forget that there are a lot of things that are important from the customer's point of view. I have stopped frequenting various local dive shops in the various areas that I've lived in for many reasons: unfriendly people working there, absolutely ridiculous bad info about a product or about diving, sub-par equipment service, misleading/changing price quotes for service, personality differences, and yes, over-inflated prices. I only mention this to remind you LDS owners/employees that from the customers vantage point there are MANY things you can do to gain, lose, or keep a customer. You are a BUSINESS, and there are obviously MANY factors in that business that you must do well in order to succeed.

Oh jeez... I should shut up... I was kidding because I didn't think "acceptical" was a word...

[said as I back away quietly from the keyboard...lol] shhhhh

Scott, I don't think they are disgusted by folks who buy elsewhere, but rather when they then bring said item to the LDS for servicing or to fix something broken, etc.

And for the record, I do agree to buy from your LDS. But I love Smalltown, USA. ;)

Hey Freddie! Time for you to educate me, pretty please. One of the selling points from my LDS was that by purchasing through them and having all of the necessary annual treatments/checkups, I would be able to use any shop in the future if I were to move. Being still in grad school there is a good chance that I will not stay in my state once I find a job. It was explained to me that the dive shops who do the servicing are like any business that is a certified dealer - the shops agree to be the servicing center and the customers can use any shop they choose to use and the shops are reimbursed either via the corporation who made the gear or through their charges imposed upon the customers for their service (or a combination of both in some cases). Is this not correct? I'm not trying to compare this to buying on-line versus in the store. I'm simply asking are these dive shops certified dealers, in that they are there to service the "lines" they carry? I really don't want to be given a hard time once I move and need to find a new dive shop and I am sure not going to fly back to this state just to have my dive gear serviced.

Kelly, Tom and others were originally disgusted by the concept of trying on a wetsuit at an LDS and then buying it elsewhere. My primary point is that the LDS is a business like any other and if they add value they often must make sure the customer is aware of that value and must also realize that there are many, many reasons why customer will or will not buy at their shop.

I, too, love Smalltown USA (I live in a town of about 3,000 people) and always prefer to buy at the small locally owned shop rather that a big corporate entity, but just because it's locally owned doesn't mean I'm automatically going to give them my business -- if they're unfriendly, unknowledgeable, unreliable, or extremely overpriced, or if I even perceive any of these to be the case they will not get my business. I recognize that the LDS has a real tough time staying in business, but just think that it's important for them to remember that there are lots of reasons why a customer will give them their business and that there are many things they can do to get that business.

Hey Tribs,
I think that not all shops are certified to service all regulators. Then again maybe some of the shops are certified to service all regulators.. How many miles away from each other are they?? oops wrong question.. Our LDS does not service Tusa regulators.. so I have to take it to another shop not too far away that does.. If however my LDS did service Tusa regs I would have him do it for sure.. You will have to make sure the shop that you eventually consider local will service your equipment or I guess you have the option to send it to the manufacture for servicing as well.. does this help???

Yeah sort of...I wasn't going to buy equipment until I knew where I was going to end up, especially since I bought it all (except tanks) and it was quite expensive. I bought it with the assurance that I would be able to service it at any dive shop that handles servicing. Maybe my LDS is just exceptional? They don't turn people away for having purchased elsewhere and they definitely don't belittle them or laugh at them for having made a bad purchase. They are always kind and friendly and attempt to help whomever walks through their door. Maybe that is why their little mom and pop shop is always busy and that those who come in with problems end up staying as customers - the service there is excellent. Man...given the tone of how this thread went, I think I have been spoiled by my LDS and am going to have a real hard time finding a shop as good as them.

I'm 6ft, 215-220 lbs. Ordered a Henderson Hyperstretch XL 3mm. Fits OK. Long enough in the arms and legs, but a little loose in the back and body. Liked the material so much, I ordered a 5mm for the cold waters in a L. This fits perfectly.
Size chart says XL, mainly for height, but the L fit the body better.

i was going to suggest to shawn that he give carib inn a try when he's on bonaire. they do have a decent selection of sizes and a few different styles. i have an LDS here, two actually, but use bruce as my LDS since we leave our gear on bonaire. like shawn said, it's a two hour drive to the closest dive shop for him. instead of tying up sales people at his DS maybe he could email bruce and describe himself and his gf and see if bruce has something that will fit him. because hyperstretch is so flexible, it's easier to fit (in my opinion). carib inn prices are great...two years ago my mask cracked and i needed to buy another one. when i got home i told the LDS what mask i had bought and what i paid...he replied that i had actually paid a little less on bonaire than i would have at home.

Jeanine most dive shop will be more then willing to help out but that does not mean all of them. It's that you made a point in your post to say go to a shop try on something then go online and buy it, it's cheaper that way. It's like you are using the shop and then taking business away from it all in the same sentence. Does that make sense to you. Hopefully you do not think you are being attacked. LOL It just hurts some of the LDS that really do care about the customers to be treated that way. Thats why we feel like we are being attacked. Yes i am a shop owner also and i do go out of my way for my customers as does Tom. So sometimes we do take it personal. END OF RANT Sorry if i offended anyone that was not my intention to do.

I'm glad this whole topic came up...makes for a good discussion. There are good LDS shops, and mediocre LDS shops...on our local board someone posted wanting the worst LDS shops listed...LOL!

Ours local LDS is in Laguna Beach, we know the owners, and they go out of their way to help in any way they can. It's a tough business that's for sure...the last couple of years so cal has had some weird weather and it makes it hard to teach classes and make a living doing that and selling gear/accessories.

I'm in a bit of a quandry we purchased our regs 6 years ago. Dacor Extreme Plus...I didn't buy them at our local LDS, as a new diver we bought at Sport Chalet (didn't even know what a LDS was)...anyway...they no longer service our regs, don't buy the parts (we just found this out). It appears that when Mares bought Dacor a few years back they just quit manufacturing replacement parts for our regs...soooo....we may be looking at buying a new 1st and 2nd stage sooner than we had planned...and of course, I'll go to Gordon and buy from them this time.

Freddie has a good point, bring in the internet price and see what they can do for you on overpriced items. Michael bought a new 7mm wetsuit about 3 years ago (the one piece kind with the hood in it) and the first LDS shop we went to was 200 bucks more, we talked to them and they woudln't budge...took it to Gordon and he cut us a deal. Better to make a few bucks than no bucks at all...so guess which LDS get's our business!

Pat, I think Carib Inn qualifies as your LDS since you spend so much darn time in Bonaire.

Signed,

Jealous and Cold

This is interesting Patrick. No where did I tell Shawn to go to an LDS to try the suits on. I actually wrote about going to a larger store. One store in particular came to mind, where I have never been able to find a sales clerk to assist me (I only go there when on vacation - because it is the thing to do). You could try on a million different things, and no one would even say boo to you. The employees are too busy listening to music to care about the customers. So why not go in there to try things on and then buy it elsewhere? I attempted one time to get assistance at a chain store and was told that they only sold the items, no one knew anything about them. Again, left to my own devices. Why should I buy there? I know...so that no one makes the leap in logic and associates me with being a thief!

To sweeten the pot...when I was in the larger store (on vacation) and couldn't get assistance, I found a wetsuit I loved, but the color I wanted was not on the floor. Went back to my LDS and they didn't carry it, but because I had tried it on and knew the size and color I wanted, they special ordered it for me. So in that case my shop got the sale because the other larger place could have cared less if I purchased from them or not. If the stores don't care about the people, why should the people care about the stores?

I like the idea of posting the best and worst LDS. I wonder which list would be longer?

Jeanine if you go to your #1356 post and just read what you said, you will hopefully understand why we have reacted this way. You threw a blanket statement out there about try one on and then order it online. Where do you find most wet suit mainly in your LDS. You never said anything about a big store while on vacations until now. I do not get involve in a lot of these discussions for the reason somebody always get there feelings hurt that is not my intentions. So like Kelly said set away from the computer.

Is everyone stressed about the holidays or what?? Seems like an argument or major differing opinions on lots of threads the past few days. How about we all smile and remember that if nothing else, we ALL have one thing in common --- we all love Bonaire and can't wait to get there or get back.

{{{Group hug.}}}

Everyone, don't beat each other up over this. My disgust was and remains with the statement as originally written.

By choice I work full time in our retail business and have seen the people that go into stores, (not just dive shops) with the sole purpose of using that store as a "sizing room". Ask your local dive shop, clothing store, sporting good store manager if they have had similar experiences. I guarantee their answer will be “yes”.

Jeanine, you should have no issue with obtaining service for your equipment, providing the manufacturer continues to support the products you purchased. If you move to an area where your equipment is not supported, ask the local shops if they know where you might be able to obtain service. If those shops are like the shops I associate with all over the eastern United States, you will find they are more than willing to help.

Ok...so it is a misperception coupled with my lack of a full definitive explanation. My LDS is not where I find most of the wetsuits. Actually, and this may be due to geographic regions, I have found more variety at the larger stores and other "specialty" stores. Wetsuits are not just for divers and I don't see many surfers, borders, or swimmers in dive shops. Many of the swim stores around me carry wetsuits and skins. My LDS doesn't even carry skins but will order them if you ask. The outdoor water sports stores are even carrying wetsuits for the tubers and skiers up here. Oh yeah, I even saw a better selection of wetsuits in a kayak/canoe store in one of those strip malls - that's where I first learned of the hyperstretch. Shawn is only a hop skip and a jump from me, so I would assume he is having the same experience. It's cold up here and many people use wetsuits for a variety of reasons. The dive shop is where you find the best assortment of technical gear - wetsuits seem to be omnipresent (even saw skins at Target last season).

Eeegadds! I evidently can't type fast enough or my dial up is just really slow. I was responding to Patrick and didn't include his name because there were no other posts out there at the time. Yikes!

Jeanine, a note of caution, if I may. Not all neoprene is the same. Some of what is available for "topside" sports, does not hold up when used for diving. Henderson Aquatics actually has two lines, their "Henderson" wetsuit line and another called "Neosport". The latter is made using this less expensive neoprene and should not be used for diving.

If more people would think before they speak, there would not be as much discontent in this world as there is now. "IF YOU MAKE A COMMENT AND DO NOT HAVE ALL THE FACT YOU ARE IN THE WRONG NO MATTER HOW ANYONE SEE IT" IT just kills me how people will answer things and not have the first idea of what there really talking about. I am not the most educated person in the world but i was always taught to make sure before inserting my foot in my mouth. Maybe i was raise different then most people now a days. So if your wrong say your wrong and leave it a lone, and to think i was having a good day until this thread.

Kelly i could use a big hug right now.

Wow Tom, I didn't know that...learn sumpthin' new every day

Thanks Tom i should have said that earlier. We sell dive gear not water sport gear.

Here's a hug for everyone

Thanks Loo Hoo: I have a grip on reality once again. Sorry if i got carried away that was not my intention. Hey maybe i going thru PBD, that whats wrong with me. And i thought it was male menopause.

I think Patrick is suffering from a severe case of PBD. Just my opinion, of course. ;)

Consider yourself hugged !!!

LOL... great minds..

Thanks Tom, but no caution needed. I am aware of the variety of different lines. I do my homework and besides it was the guy in the strip mall that told me to check out the hyperstretch, he was not trying to deceive me - he was giving me good information. Besides, I bought all of my gear from a reputable LDS.

Patrick, I can't seem to decipher your post. No one was wrong. You understood LDS to be where most of the wetsuits are and I understood it to be the other way around. Doesn't mean we are wrong, just that we have had different experiences. Given the rivers and cold temps etc up here, many stores are getting into the wetsuit business. I don't know where your quote came from either, so can't address that - but maybe that was not directed at me.

I might actually go hit up the mall or sportmart of sorts up here. Otherwise I'm going to try out that dive shop called Deep Blue in Milwaukee(I actually don't live in milwaukee, it's the closest big city I live to now, I live in a little town now). It'll be about a 45 minute drive for me, but I'll check it out on Friday I think. Basically I'm looking more for just something to keep the rays out than getting myself a real good wetsuit for diving. I blew out my ear drum 2 years ago on certification day because I was sick and we tried to push it because there wouldn't be another class for 6 months. I've been toying with the idea since of trying to finish my certification up, but until I do I don't really have a need for anything worth too much money. I just need something so I don't burn up and it ruins my trip.

Oh Shawn, sorry to hear about your ear. That is sad news. However, I am happy to hear that you are an extremely brave man. Just look at you...going out shopping, at a mall even, on the Friday after Thanksgiving! My hat's off to you! Happy holidays and happy shopping!

Shawn,
If you're talking about diving in Bonaire or the Caribbean in general, you might not even need a wetsuit. Seems like the more northerly divers wear only skins or T-shirts like we do (from Chicago). But sizing can be an issue even for skins. Body shape more than height can dictate size. My LDS looked at me and guessed "XXL" and I thought he was joking (I'm 5'8")--it's long in the legs and arms, but still a bit tight in the middle. Order 2 or 3 sizes and return what doesn't fit.