I was just informed "WannaDive" that all dive shops are asking their customers to only take one tank per person per pickup. This was supposedly to eliminate crime and to help us all with managing our surface intervals...sounds to me like a concerted effort to force more people into boat diving and get away from the non-lucrative shore diving...also use more gas...spend more money in town...etc...looks like Bonaire's reputation as the home of easy shore diving is soon to be changed.

Actually, I was told when we were there a few weeks ago that tanks had been stolen in the recent past from Habitat. I believe they said that they'd lost some of the less common sizes (63's, 67's), which was a pain for me, because I prefer smaller tanks.

While it can be a bit of a pain, it's hardly a hardship to have to stop back and pick up more tanks. It certainly sounds reasonable if they've been seeing people dive, change tanks and turn around and go out again without a surface interval.

You sound awfully sour about this - perhaps you should simply find another, easier shorediving location then?

I admit I am awfully sour about this...its not what I had in mind when I bought the airfare and accommodations...if your afternoon plan involves say La Dania's Leap followed by a late afternoon/sunset dive at Karpata and finally a night dive at Karpata...we're talking a lot of driving...that's not only hardship, but more expensive gas as well...I come to Bonaire to get in 5-6 dives a day...not all people are that aggressive...and maybe this is ok for them...but if I had known this last month...I would have booked Roatan again...I quit going to Grand Cayman for the same reason...I feel the money that I spend on diving maybe a little more than some of you.

I have to agree with Tom a little. If we pick up 2 tanks each, and are staying North of town, but want to dive South of town, we go do one dive, drive to town to get something to eat on our surface interval, and then head back south for the next dive. It would be an inconvienience to have to drive back to the resort North of town to get another tank...it's odd that they would steal tanks. I remember the gal at Sand$ telling us that it wasn't a problem, because the tanks are marked per resort, so if someone came to Toucan, with a Buddy's tank for a fill, something would be suspicious. So unless the thieves are shipping them off to Aruba...it doesn't make sense...but then thieves don't make sense....

Perhaps Habitat can explain how limiting divers to one tank in hand at a time will reduce theft of tanks. I can understand loss of tanks being a problem but wonder at this 'solution'.

Carib Inn has had this rule for some time.

Habitat has been the 'home of diving freedom' and diver responsibility so I am sure that they are not trying to dictate surface intervals, especially with so many divers using computers.

That said, I must agree with Tom on the annoyance of having to spend the time, fuel and all in driving by the dive op between multiple dives on a single day. One can plan to dive alternate dives north and south but still that requires the driving.

Having to 'simply find another, easier shore diving location' should not be necessary. Especially when there isn't one as we all know.

Here again an easy solution to a problem is adopted, causing aggravation to the many because of the very few.

Another reason behind this might also be because, I suspect, it means the dive ops need fewer tanks on hand to serve the same number of divers, cutting their cost of doing business.

Re Cynde's comment: Curacao more likely than Aruba, I would think, smuggled onto one of the car ferries. In the past there also have been one or two 'pirate' fill locations on Bonaire where such tanks could be filled.

I agree, it's odd about them stealing the tanks. The divemaster I spoke with was a bit bemused about it, too. I suppose it's possible someone rigged up his own fill station... who knows?

I can see your point. But I don't think we have all the data though: maybe they're seeing a rise in the number of people taking a ride in the chamber, or someone's been threatened with a suit, or has been sued, for not ensuring that some diver act sensibly by forcing them to do so. All it takes is a few idiots with more money than brains, and a willingness to blame everyone else for their own stupidity, to make it necessary for rules...

If you have one tank, and you're using it to dive, I think most thieves would be hard pressed to steal it out of the back of your truck.

Also, we have the word of one new poster that this policy is about to become island-wide "law". This could also be a case of Chicken Little...

Glen, your comment about Aruba vs. Curacao made me laugh...I actually wanted to type Curacoa (sp) but couldn't remember how to spell it and was in a hurry, so I substituted Aruba instead...thanks for the giggle...

I have been told by an experienced Bonaire dive operator that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to bring the kind of 'negligence' suit so common in the US in the Dutch legal system in use in the Antilles. Maybe that has changed.

I hope that perhaps CURO will speak here up about this and put our fevered minds to rest. :–)

Cynde,

I always have to stop and think about the spelling. I remember that it sounds like 'cure-a-sa-o' not 'cocoa'. ;–)

Glen...<giggle>...Cure - a - sow...

Susan may be right...perhaps we have a troll...

Let''s see: a troll in a chicken suit??? Must be Big Bird!!

Don't mean to come off as a troll...whatever that is...this is the email I received from WannaDive...might not be "island law" yet.. I was hoping a thread like this would increase awareness in the early phase and keep that from happening.

Dear Tom,

Just recently all diveshop on bonaire ask all of there guests to take one tank at the time. This is also for the safety of the divers. This way the surface interval will be done in a conservative way. So 'a good thing' we feel.
If you have additional questions feel free to contact us at any time.
Take care
Bob.

Tom,

Ok, apologies for suspecting you were a troll.

The email sounds like they are asking divers to do this, not making it an enforced policy? I would love if Jack Chaulk or someone else that has the connections to the dive shop inside scoop to clarify before we all get into a tizzy ;-)

P.S. Glen, I hope I spelled Jack's last name right...;-)

(Message edited by cyndelee on November 16, 2004)

Didn't think you were a 'troll' (someone who makes a provocative comment just to stir up trouble).

TKS for the Wannadive email copy. I seem to remember that this is the reason Carib Inn gave me some time ago for their rule. I was hoping that was not the case. Good old American hand holding whether you need it or not. Actually, it sounds like a PADI rule; several/many of the dive ops (those that advert something like 'PADI 5-Star') are insured through PADI and must work to the insurer's rules.

I wonder how the dive ops are going to control the surface intervals of people shore diving on their house reef??? I shouldn't really say that I suppose, like putting ideas into their heads.

Glen, you are killing me today...

---

quote:

I wonder how the dive ops are going to control the surface intervals of people shore diving on their house reef???

---

Since I have not heard of anyone getting bent after repetitive dives without a surface interval, I will assume it's a theft issue.

I really would like Jake or someone on the island to get clarification on this. Or maybe the dive ops are going to set up a refill station at Karpata? It would probably make the park off limits if you could only do one dive up there.
Just Thoughts
Pete

Tank theft is not uncommon on Bonaire, John and I had two stolen during broad daylight at 1000 Steps last month. For the rest of our trip, we only took a single tank when diving remote spots. Not because it was requested, but because it made sense.

Did it cost us more in gas? Yes!
Was it a bother? A little compared to previously enjoyed freedom!
Did it cut back on our diving? No, think surface interval!
Will we do the same next trip? Damn straight!!
Who will we be diving through? WannaDive,if they will have us!

Tom...simma down now simma down...;-) Although, I'm not sure the tiara divers will be allowed back on Boniare...hee hee...

It is interesting that the Wannadive mail says all operators will be adopting this inconvenient proposal. Since I use only Nitrox, I sign every tank out with a control # from whatever op I am using at the time. I've never had a tank(knock knock) stolen, I don't know if one is charged for it or not. I assume operators lose a few tanks per year, but in past threads dive ops have posted that they lose many more than we might think.

If this policy is indeed a result of thievery then a better and more useful plan ought to be hatched, especially for those folks who don't stay at resorts.

Maybe Bonaire needs some Pinkertons.

It'd be nice if all the shops came together to allow divers to refill their tanks at ANY dive shop by presenting something like a Universal card. That would show that the divers have paid for the right to unlimited shore diving whether is air or Nitrox. That would prevent most divers from having to drive back to the home shop, which in some cases, could be at the opposite end of the island. Just my two cents. Coach Izzy

Tom Linder...off topic, but are you new Sutherland Dam Road or Kerri Lane? Good friends of mine left Ramona two years ago and relocated to the hills of Kentucky. I miss visiting Ramona! Carole (I am in NJ)

Well, I really like to take enough tanks for two dives, however, this will not stop me from diving in Bonaire. The point of having a filling station of some sort up north is a good one. But, theft is bad enough up that way right now, so it probrably won't happen. I have not heard anything from my dive shop in regards to this. Will find out in February on my next trip.

Coach Izzy ... this is a very good idea! Actually I had a discussion with one of the more prominent dive operators on the island (he can identify himself if he likes). What we discussed was actually a step ahead of your idea and is predicated on the principle that "If you have seen one tank, you have seen them all". The idea is that you could drop off your emptys at any number of participating shops and then pick up a full one from the same shop. The shops would sort out the inventory amongst themselves.

We discussed some operational and political details of this but its out of scope for this discussion. It would not be easy to do, but lets hope that it will be done someday. I think that it will. Bonaire has one of the most interoperating and cooperative of all communities of operators.

Maybe they think people are bringing extra tanks for another diver who isn't paying for the tanks...just a thought. As we all know there are many dishonest people in the world.

Tom's post is the first I have seen here or heard of about theft of tanks from vehicles at dive sites. All before have commented on no theft, which was my experience through 2002. Anyone else??? Isn't the new world order great?

I would still like to hear from CURO. Maybe tomorrow; we have arisen to this like a hive of angry African bees.

Most of the time when we do shore dives, we take two tanks each and we always use them. if this actually happens, it might just be enough for me to not go back to Bonaire again.

We stay at Belmar and dive both ends of the island; for southern sites this policy would be an annoyance but no big deal. To go north past the point where the road becomes one way, then have to drive all the way back, just to grab another tank...this would be a major pain. If tank theft is the issue, I would agree to pay for lost tanks. Nine trips, mostly shorediving, and have not had a problem. An inexpensive locking tank rack would not be that hard to design either. I also saw a truck bed with a lid that closed and locked - no glass to break- on one recent trip and wonder why these are not in wider use.

If "safety" is the issue, the (?previous} lack of this sort of babysitting is one big reason we go to Bonaire in the first place. I think there are enough others to keep us coming back, but we will definitely look for operators who continue to treat their divers like adults.

David

I would like to point out again that this whole brouhaha is based on an email sent by one dive operator in which there is a REQUEST that people not take more than one tank per diver.

Whatever the reasoning is behind it (about which we can only speculate), the fact is this is not a mandate. It certainly is a request to which a reasonable diver, planning two dives within a reasonable distance of each other and their dive shop, can acquiesce without undue pain.

Totally agree on your last remark susan!

Susan,

Certainly would be nice to hear from someone with some some inside info on this. The response to this is understandable though, as I, and, I assume, many others, love Bonaire for the freedom from boat schedules and other hassles present just about everywhere else, as much as for the great diving. I want to spend my surface interval in a shady spot with a cold drink talking with my wife and daughter about the dive we just did and planning the next one,or taking some topside photos, not schlepping on a round trip to the dive shop three times a day. Do-able but definitely a big deal, and the operators should know how we feel about this. The more brouhaha the better, and I hope this is much ado about nothing!

Cynde,

The link to troll info was eye-opening. That some people like to make trouble is unsurprising. That it's an organised sport is astounding.

David

I've sent a e-mail to many of the dive operators with the request to clarify.
I enclosed the contents of this thread.

Well I'm DEFINITELY in Tom's corner on this one! Yes, I'd be sour too if told about this while on island.
The way I see it, if Bonaire has a crime problem with tanks now being stolen from trucks (& to my knowledge which albiet may be limited on day to day activities on island) this is an issue which I've never heard of. However to shift the burden of only taking 1 tank to the customer to solve their perceived theft problem doesn't fly with me.
Catch the criminals NOT inconvenience law abiding paying customers.

Bonaire is well known as the home of diving freedom.. To penalize customers with only taking 1 tank when they have purchased an unlimited shore diving package is hardly fair (IMHO of course).

The SECOND issue is the dive shop's attempt to disguise this as big brother telling us that this is being done in the name of promoting better dive safety by ensuring longer surface intervals. In this age of computers this smacks of chicanery (espescially bearing in mind the 1 hr S.I. on dive boats so they can get their 2 dives in & be back by lunch). I am a huge proponent of a long S.I. and after a morning dive prefer to lounge by a secluded spot & leisurely do a 2nd beach dive maybe 3-4 hours later without resorting to driving back to the dive shop to pick up/unload tanks.
This one of the reasons why I never personally book double tank dives on a boat. Much too rushed for me. Hopefully this is a policy which will NOT prevail amongst the dive operations on the island.

I came back from Bonaire on Sunday night and did not see this policy in practice. We stayed at Harbour Village and they did not have this policy and while they told people not to leave stuff in the truck when shore diving they were asked by a guest and specifically said not to worry about extra tanks in the back. I also spent time at the Plaza and they had there tanks at the drive up ready to go and it did not appear people were limiting themselves to one tank.

That's good news from the front lines...I as much as anyone hope this doesn't materialize...

Here's an idea...how about hiring a local to babysit the truck while you dive...sort of like a scuba caddy...voluntary submission to extortion I would think, but only brainstorming.

Coach Izzy has a good idea (Fill tanks anywhere, or do an exchange thing like gas propane tanks). But probably will not happen.

For what it is worth, my wife and I typically do two dives a day, they are usually both shore dives. I have always found it a bit amazing and aggrivating when I am getting our four tanks for the two of us, and find I have to wait because someone just loaded 20 tanks for 4 or 5 people in back of their truck. Thus taking all the full tanks. I have always thought that that was rather on the rude side, (besides pushing your luck).

I would really hope that the rule gets changed to two per person. One does seem rather limiiting, and will have a huge effect on my ability to dive.
We bring our son, whom we have generally hired a local sitter to watch during the morning time so we can get two dives in. This year he will probably go to a program of some sort (Like Sea & Discover). Nonetheless, to go back to get another tank may make it very difficult for us to get two dives during the 9:00+- am to 12:30+- time frame.

Also, what about the park, that is one time we would sometimes take 3 tanks person.

Tankless Dave

Sebbo the Seahorse Hunter, I have a question for you. How would this affect you as a person renting a house for a month? (I only pick your brain since I know you personally and know you were in a house for a month) If I remember, when you were at Elkadia, you and Mare had several tanks at a time and made a trip to the dive shop probably every few days or so. Does this mean you'll have to only get ONE tank at a time? I don't know why it seems like it should be different if you're at a house there, but good lord, going back and forth three or four (or even five) times a day to get another tank seems really excessive to me. If you're centrally located (at Divi for instance)and only doing two dives a day, it wouldn't be much of an issue. But that's probably the exception rather than the rule.

THIS IS NOT AN ADD !
However it may clarify the confusion.
On behalf of two diveshops I like to stake once more that there is no such an agreement between the diveshops. Our guests can still take as much tanks as the like.
Since the beginning of this year we are missing a lot of tanks, probably through theft but we are afraid that not every customer has informed us about a missing tank.
That is why we are handing over the following request to our clients on their first arrival.

Dear Customer,

We are sorry to inform you that we have lost many tanks lately.
It appears that tanks are stolen from cars near the dive sites or at other places where after they are transported to South America most probably.

That is why we are asking your co-operation in protecting our properties.

1.Do not carry more tanks in your car than you are going to use.
2.Do not leave tanks in your car unattended. Not even in Kralendijk, especially near the City Centre.
3.Return the tanks before 5 PM or, if you keep them overnight, store them in your room or apartment and not in the car.

This will enable us to supply you with affordable air!
Thank you for your co-operation.

P.S. I could be an idea to start your first dive at the site where the Pink Bus is at that day.

Jan, thank you for the clarification. South America heh....geez...I appreciate your stepping in and giving us what your policy is. Glad the pink bus is up and running again too ;-)

I'm holding my tongue now about what you can, and can't leave in the truck while your diving...ugh...sigh...tires, gas, and an extra tank...

Bonaire needs Dive Butlers.

Clearly there's money in this. The job would be a combination of taxi driver, shore security director, emergency first aid contactor and gear-helper-oner.

For folks who really don't need to be renting a vehicle for their stay other than shore diving, maybe it makes more sense for the dive operators to provide a service of truck and driver/butler? This would allay fears of tanks being stolen, vehicles being broken into, right on through how to contact someone in an emergency.

The butler trucks could even be equipped with DAN O2 kits and first aid, providing a significant safety reason to use them in addition to the security aspects.

In essence, I'm talking about land-based dive boat operations. One of the reasons to dive from a boat these days is there are people on board watching whatever gear is left aboard. In most cases you wouldn't leave a boat unattended on the surface. You want someone there to help you out of the water and administer aid if needed. Well, maybe the same is now required on shore.

Good Idea!

Stop and think, if I lost a tank weather it be stolen or misplaced the dive shop is going to charge my good old Yankee credit card. End of story.

Message from buddy dive:

Beste Bob,

Bedankt voor uw boodschap.
Ik kan je mededelen dat we bij buddy dive deze maatregel niet hebben. We bieden unlimited shorediving aan, en mensen kunnen dus zoveel duiken doen als ze willen binnen de bekende grenzen natuurlijk.

We raden mensen wel aan om niet TE veel tanks mee te nemen, (laats hadden we er een paar die namen 4 tanks mee), de tanks liggen in de auto in de zon, etc. Meetal neemt men 2 tanks mee, komen terug voor bijv lunch en dan weer een paar tanks mee voor de middag, maar nogmaals, het is up to you

Graag hoor ik als er nog meer vragen zijn!

Groetjes,

Heleen

Summary:

We advise people not to take to many tanks, but it is up to you.
Most of the time, people take 2 tanks, return for lunch and take another 2 tanks.


(Message edited by bpsmits on November 17, 2004)

Jerry, WannaDive never charged my credit card, they only asked for a copy of my Police Report.

Jan Kloos form Yellow Submarine & Phototours wrote:

summary:
Today police found 16 stolen tanks in a house + a number of BCD;s. It is said that a thieve makes $ 50 per tank.
Yellow submarine does not want to impose a limit on the tanks you can take, but hope for understanding and cooperation.

Toevallig is er vandaag een inval in een verdacht huis gedaan en werden er 16 tanks (waaronder 5 van ons) gevonden en een aantal BCD's. Ook andere gestolen goederen. Gezegd wordt dan men $50 voor een tank ontvangt dus het is lucratief! Wij willen geen limiet stellen maar hopen op begrip en wat medewerking. Het is vervelend dat wanneer je 's avonds langs de boulevard een borrel gaat halen, je verschillende pick ups ziet staan met je tanks er op. Vroeger was ik er trots op maar nu houd ik mijn hart vast. Groet, Jan

Thanks Bob.

Hi all since this thread was started because of an answer from our shop I'd like to clarify: Last week I and two other diveoperators (so not all.... (yet)) two of whom owners and one general manager sat together, as we do daily for coffee :-), we came to the absolutely startling conclusion that as many as a thousand! tanks a year get stolen from Bonaire and simply dissappear. This year we estimate 60 to 80 from us alone. The general manager mentioned above was from Yellow Submarine the owner of which also posted in this thread. Their manager mentioned the same amounts as did the other owner. we are not the largest shops on the island and there are 12 shops. any one can do the math. Just today we were called to the police who found six of our tanks back from the home of the suspects of the brutal robbery/attack a couple of weeks ago. Now the problem of theft on divesites and other spots from cars has been a very persistant one. Anyone on this board knows for example the stickers carrental agencies put in their cars, to warn you not to leave any valuables in your car. It appears that now tanks have become valuables as well to those street thugs. The purchase of a tank costs more to us than it costs a diver for a week of unlimited air I assure you. So we simply ask for your cooperation exactly as Jan Kloos of Yellow Submarine asks above. This is not about gas, boats, restaurants, surface intervals, restricting diving freedom or making anyone to spend more money, it is to stop theft, that the authorities apparenty can't or even try. And as said above, if there's nothing to steal it won't happen. We feel it is such a simple thing, and at Wannadive we ask your kind understanding.
Bart, co-owner Wannadive

Hi Jan, Heleen and Bart,
I'm glad you clarified. I think you made yr point.
However, a number of divers had strong arguments too, why it would be very inconvenient to be able to take only one tank per person.
Some proposed a solution.
Maybe it's a good idea that all dive operators get together and take a look at the abovementioned arguments and possible solutions.

I think we all share the same interest: hassle free diving on Bonaire.

I hope that you, while drinking yr coffee, will be able to discuss this matter further and inform us of the outcome.

Bart, also, thank you for your input. I really think that it puts it in perspective for those of us that love Bonaire, to hear the "rest of the story" from the businesses, and how it (i.e. theft of tanks) effect the business. 50 to 80 tanks a year is a lot of money to lose. Question, have the dive ops noticed a rise in the number of tanks being stolen in the last couple of years, or has it always been a problem?

I don't know how feasible it would be, but a mobile air fill station on the South end, and possibly on the North end would be a great idea. If it were possible to get all the dive ops to cooperate and run the stations, then that might outweigh the costs of losing so many tanks per year. Locally, on the island of Catalina, there is a mobile air fill at Casino Point. It is a big enclosed truck, and they provide tanks, and air fills while you are there diving the point. It's run by one of the dive shops on the island. Just another thought to throw out there with the morning coffee ;-)

A mobile fill could be interesting. There's an outfit providing this service on Grand Cayman. They've got a trailer with two big tanks, one with air, the other with 32% Nitrox. The dive boats use various beaches and docks depending on the weather, so this helps the dive operators get fills where needed without a lot of schlepping.

On Bonaire, where folks are out on their own, one approach would be to have the mobile fill station track the name of the person getting the fill, and what shop they're from. The shops could settle up later with the fill operator. While this would add some expense to the dive shops, it's sounding like it'd be a lot cheaper than replacing tanks on a regular basis.

The 1000 tanks a year figure is stunning...

1000 tanks/year = beaucoup $$$, but presumably this cost is/has been passed on to the consumer (us).
Again this is a law enforcement problem on Bonaire, and one more thing, like the brutal crime we've all read about, vacationers finding thieves in their rooms,etc that makes bonaire less attractive. The answer is patrols, reasonable law enforcement efforts, not restricting divers access to air.

Kelly my dear friend, if I were limited to one tank per stop at the dive shop, I would probably not return to Bonaire unless I went to a resort, or had my own tanks, or dealt with reasonable people, which so far I've been lucky enough to find. If I wanted a driving vacation I'd head for the Amalfi coast. I don't believe in businesses making their problems my problems.


I think the first action should be to publicize to divers that there is a problem. Education is the most powerful tool for change, and usually the only one with lasting effects. A flawed system will continue to be a flawed system, even when the various participants are replaced. The participants must be changed through knowledge. Few tourists are aware that there is rampant tank theft. You read in this thread that even people well versed in this board have missed previous posts from Bart and others. I have NEVER personally talked to someone who had tanks stolen, though I've read posts. For many tourists, the whole theft-windows-down-leave-nothing-in-the-car shore diving concept is a great shock. The education process should include all the information a shore diver should have - they ought not to have to read this board or get ripped off to find out the "score." I mean, we already have mandatory education for divers, yes? A little handout maybe with the dive tag?

Secondly, I would find a way to engrave the tanks for easy ID if they are stolen. Maybe everybody could just go Din?
(and steel while you're at it)

Thirdly, I would vigorously prosecute people or businesses with stolen tanks, basically try to ruin their lives through civil actions in the courts if possible through a consortium of dive ops in concert with a common insurer. That's how the Pinkertons started the first national database of criminals in the USA, working for the insurance companies to PREVENT crime. The law is very different to a private detective than a cop. The message is, "We are watching YOU!

Fourth, I would leave out decoy tanks with dead fish in them to screw up the thieves with their buyers.

I don't know how long the whole shore diving freedom of Bonaire is going to last. I don't know what number of years/months I'd pick in the pool.

Finally, this post should preclude anyone ever asking me a question again.

Ever Hopeful and ready to join the Bonaire Coast Guard Seb

Now, if the Pink Bus had an attached fill trailer......

TKS, shops, for the explanations. Does your insurance cover these losses???

All the circles cross at the police problem. Here's hoping....

Yikes! This thread has grown in viral proportions! Good to see everyone is so concerned though. Lots of interesting proposals and seldom opions. Seb, great posting. You read my mind. Still being realistic, yet hoping for the best. Coach Izzy

Yikes! This thread has grown in viral proportions! Good to see everyone is so concerned though. Lots of interesting proposals and solid opinions. Seb, great posting. You read my mind. Still being realistic, yet hoping for the best. Coach Izzy

I apologize for the double posting and the errors. That's what happens when the fingers cannot keep up with the thinking... Oh well... Coach Izzy

Seb, I love the dead-fish-in-the-tank idea... of course you knew I would. lol

I know this is a problem that won't have one quick-fix solution and it's a syptom of a much larger problem, i.e. Bonaire Crime. That being said, I have to just point out that the visitors are the ones being "punished" (not punished per se, just "punished" for lack of a better word) for the criminals' actions. Since it would seem that the criminals can do as they please, with no recourse, it's up to the tourists/divers to pick up the extra hassle of only taking one tank. I hope this never becomes mandatory. As Seb said, he has a truck full of tanks at any given time, but are kept on their property when not in use. Just using my friends Seb and Mary as examples, they do many dives a day. To require them to trod to the dive shop each and every time they need a tank is just absurd.

Seb, I will never be sorry I asked you a question! You and Mary were the first ones I thought about regarding this issue.

Hi
There is another aspect of limiting the number of tanks, which I believe was not mentioned even by the dive shops.
Think of the inventory of tanks riding around all day in the back of trucks doing nothing. Then at 4 or 5 o'clock in the afternoon they all come back and have to be filled for the next day. I'd also figure that some people will take a couple of extras "just in case". Adds up to a lot of extra cost for dive operators.Then a few get stolen to add to the fun Jeez! Mickey

Just to add my .02. I would not come back to Bonaire if I was limited to a single tank. I go there because of the shore diving (diving freedom!), it would not be worth the hassle to drive back and forth. If I was going to take a boat there are other locations I would go to.

There is also the fact that Bonaire is TINY, with no stoplights (except the one at Pasa Bon Pizza, which has nothing to do with traffic control.)

Driving from north of town, say AndreaI, to a dive site south of town, lets say Alice in Wonderland, takes what - 15,20 minutes, tops? With most of the dive operators you may be doing business with somewhere in between, my mind is really boggling at the griping, pissing and moaning, going on here...

Bart and Other Dive operators.

Please do not look at theft of the tank as your only loss.

Quote from Bart...
"The purchase of a tank costs more to us than it costs a diver for a week of unlimited air I assure you."

When divers come to Bonaire and get their car raped by the thugs and items are stolen including your tank the real loss to you is that diver and his/her friends will not come back to Bonaire. You lose much more than just a tank.

The buisness's in Bonaire are at great threat here and need to brainstorn to find solutions. Your customers should not bear the burdon, and in the long run will not.

On the 1 tank limit if it becomes a strict rule I too will probably start diving elsewhere. I understand your problem but please think hard on the impact a single tank at a time rule would have. Just think of the time , gas wasted if you were diving Red Slave, Hidden Beach. Or Bopec , Taylor Made, etc....

Also, please do not bring in time between dive at all. It is somewhat insulting to me that you imply I cannot read my dive computer correctly. (Or even if I didn't have a computer that I can not read a dive table)

TPS

So, where are these 1000 tank per year vanishing to? It's not like you can put one in your pocket and get on a plane. If there were someone fencing them, don't you think it would get around to at least ONE of the many dive shop operators? They are big, heavy and noisy to move. SOMEONE has to know where all of these tanks are being exported to because that many can't possibly be filtered back into the local population. There something about this whole thing that sounds bogus.

I just dived with WannaDive, and *nobody* mentioned that I couldn't take multiple tanks. I usually had at least two, frequently 3 in the open truck bed, just for me. Doing the north end from the one-way road on would have been a pain in the arse with a one-tank-limit! It'd totally kill any diving in Washington Park. What's the point in a half-day rough drive with a single dive?

The guys diving with me *did* get told about a tank limit by someone at PhotoTours, but they still had at least 2 tanks each on all the dives we did, limit or not. Anything less would have been unacceptable, even WITH the multiple locations that PT has.

I saw precisely ONE truck on the island with a diamond-plate tonneau cover. I'd asked for one myself, but Total Car Rental said they'd stopped doing it. I think AB is the only one with secured beds any longer, and most of their trucks did NOT have them, from what I observed. Marc, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If I'd known in advance that Total didn't have the locked beds any longer, I'd have rented from you.


And a side note: I followed the "leave the windows down yadda-yadda-yadda" sticker UP UNTIL we got out of the water a week ago and found the seats soaked with rain, and over an inch in the floorboards of both trucks. After that, I left it unlocked, and figured any potential thieves could easily see that they didn't need to break the windows. The truck was hot after that, but at least I didn't have to swim to drive B<g

Again, this whole thing was because one dive shop requested (and that's the operative word) that people not take so many tanks at a time. Yes, they said all others might ask it too; however, those others aren't piping up here.

There are a lot of OTHER, REAL problems that the tourism industry on Bonaire is trying to deal with right now. Why is everyone reacting as if this is one, too?

Hi Susan,

ANY policy that penalizes EVERYONE because of the bad behavior of a few seems to be at cross purposes to happy tourism and Total Diving Freedom in my humble opinion. Unless of course YOU are volunteering to drive folks tanks back & forth all day so they can enjoy their surface interval hassle-free.

What's next, limit the amount of gas you can buy at the station because the thieves are only going to steal it anyway? NO windows on any rental vehicles because the thieves like to break the glass to get in? Let's just eliminate the doors so the bad guys won't break them. ALL of these things are costs to the vendors too.

How about open season on the bad guys instead? How about you dive shop opeartors pressure the truck rental agencies to install locking tank racks? How about tourists say the heck with all this nonsense and dive elsewhere? Business will NOT grow if you put up roadblocks to your customers.

Well said Randy...

Well, since it isn't a policy, isn't all this moot?

Susan, you KNOW how excitable we all are! Give us a nibble and we will devour the entire loaf ;-)

I think the concern though may be that at some point, it MAY become policy, that's why the uproar. I do think that Tom S. and Randy P. make good points (if it became policy, and were enforced).

I still like the idea of a mobile fill station :-)

Well, I like the idea of the "United Aggressive Broads Fill Station of Bonaire."
Or some such thing.

Just my .02. LOL

Hmmmm Kelly, UABFS just doesn't slip off of the tongue very well. I tried it a couple of times. I like the idea though.

I wonder if I should bring another bicycle chain and combination lock with me...one for the spare tire and the other one for the tanks in the back of the truck.

I'm picturing us at the fill stations... think Hans and Frans from Saturday Night Live.. "We are here to fill [clap] you up."

Kelly, are you volunteering?? Hire a Bonairean or two and start a business that allows you to dive every day on Bonaire! :–)

Such a policy may not be the best tourism but sometimes ideal tourism must be tempered with reality, which is the theft problem. Of course, each shop could raise the price of an air fill by a dollar each to cover the cost of replacements. I know no one would complain if it allowed multiple tanks per pickup.

Kelly,

Can't we PUMP them UP?

I have a sweatshirt that I can stuff with t-shits so I am sufficiently PUMPED!

We will have no girley-man antics at OUR Pump station!

And we'll be real mean -- we'll chew strawberry twizzlers. OOOoohhhhh I can FEEL the fear!

I think it is real simple....we all love our diving freedom....
especially the freedom to grab as many tanks as we want, don't tell the tank owner how many tanks we take (freedom), turn them in when ever we please and if a few are missing don't take responsibility for it.
I would think it is reasonable for a customer to be responsible for his own lease. And if we are going to blame business owners for the crime situation on Bonaire then we should apply the same standard to ourselves and our own towns. Now, you can either check out your tanks and take as many as you want to be responsible for or you take 1 and keep it on your back.
I choose to not buy the CDW and carry as many tanks as I want and if I get ripped I'll give the dive op $150 each for tanks and pay for the truck. Odds over the years are in my favor.

How about giant solar powered tank vending machines at each dive site? You could get a swipe card and select your tank size and viola. They could even replace the yellow rocks.

Seriously, at the risk of being a total contrarian, I have not found a one tank limitation to be that big a deal (and they are willing to bend for things like the park, etc.). Perhaps that is because I like to dive the south (and stay south of downtown as well) so the drive is no big deal. I also rarely make two dives in the north on any given day (although I am probably doing three to four shore dives every day).

For those that enjoy taking multiple tanks (and who recognize that may tend to increase the price of things), so be it.

How about suggesting the car rental agencies add an extra piece or two of wood the to tank racks in the back of the trucks. I can imagine a simple design that would fit over the existing racks - hinged on one side, with some sort of hardware (exact term for this is escaping me!!) that can accomodate a padlock on the other. Sure, this isn't foolproof, but it's a deterent.

When we go out for the morning, we always take 5 tanks. 2 each for 2 dives & an extra in case there is a problem with an O-ring or something else. We have used this back up tank on occasion, so I would be very annoyed if we got to the site & found my tank had a problem. Since my son is in Aquakids for the morning, we often run on a tight schedule & hauling back to Toucan between dives would detract from the relaxation we strive for on Bonaire.

How about the dive ops supply the car rental agencies with such devices? I don't see why the car rental places would be too concerned about loss of tanks, they have their own problems. I mean, we're talking a hinge or two, a chunk of 2 by and a hasp here.

Mare, I don't know how this portion of your post got past our "moderator software" but it made me laugh...

---

quote:

I have a sweatshirt that I can stuff with t-shits so I am sufficiently PUMPED!

---

Cynde! I very innocently meant to imitate Hans and Frans, two weakling girly-men on Saturday Night Live who stuffed fabric IN THE SWEATSHIRT ARMS so they looked like they had muscles.

Now, whatever were you thinking you twizzler twirling gal?

tee heee

Riiight Mare...sure..."innocently"....I remember Hans and Frans, and I agree, a non-girly pump you up station would be quite cool! LOL!...(air fills, pump you up....don't want anyone getting the wrong idea here) ;-)

Wow just playing with numbers again....
1000 tanks with K valve at wholesale dive op cost of $100 (80% of retail guess) plus import tax of $33 plus shipping of $50 is $183,000 per year to share amongst 12 dive ops....that doesn't sound like petty crime to me. Looks like if WannaDive is missing 70 tanks ($12,810) a year then Buddy and Lions are probably missing 120 tanks a year ($21,960).
Hey Bob looks like you are being ripped off $35 a day, everyday, 365. That sucks.
Here is what I will do....carry my normal 5 tanks, if one gets swiped I'll pay you and your crews Bongos tab for a week AND as a anti tank swiping diversion I'll leave my softside cooler full of cold beer on top of the unguarded tanks at the dive site.

Wally, just thinking about your playing with numbers again scares me. Y'all just take care now and make sure you don't overtax your self.
I am imagining your eyes glazing over and I'm not sure if it's the numbers going about in your head or are you thinking about all that beer in your soft-side cooler....

I actually always leave my camouflaged soft side cooler in the truck and in 2003 somebody swiped a beer....regardless of what Eva says

whispering:Pssssst: Hey Wally -- maybe it was Eva...maybe she was thirsty. SHHHHHHH!

First, I would have to say I'd be reluctant to return and use a dive shop that restricted me to 1 tank. We frequently do a couple of dives in the North in the morning, and I like to spend my interval sitting at a site looking at the ocean, not driving. I do enough driving at home.

Second, at ~$150/tank, that is a lot of money, and if I were a dive shop I'd be looking for solutions too. So why don't the dive shops provide tank locks? Isn't that a better solution? You don't restrict divers and you safeguard your tanks. . .

Something like this:
http://www.ellock.com/Scuba1new.htm

I'm a bit surprised it was Wanna dive that this post was about (we've used Wanna dive both our trips). If I remember correctly they don't even lock their tanks at night. . . .

Third, like its been mentioned, this, along with all the other theft has to be dealt with harshly of its never going to change. . .

I am late in a response, but I still want to air my opinion on the above.

Although I understand it is far more popular stating that "I will not let myself be restricted by some Dive Op" I must agree with them (e.g. with Bart Snelder form Wannadive).

The statement made by Seb ("I don't believe in businesses making their problems my problems") is way off and means Seb probably doens't believe in ANY business.

The point made is simple:
Tanks are being stolen. This costs money to the Dive Op and one way or the other the DIVER will pay for the consequences. With all due respect: THAT'S HOW THIS WORLD WORKS!
If the Dive Op makes suggestions which might be somewhat awkward, we all should realise that these guys also could have made a different choice:
Take their loss (in stolen tanks), recalculate this into their standard Air prices and let the customer pay, without knowing. (I.e. higher rates for the hole of Bonaire)
That's the average business response to a situation like this. The suggested locks might work. But again: WE the divers will, eventually pay the price. The problem isn't one of the Dive Ops alone.....it's also OURS!

I think Bart and his colleagues have made a reasonable proposition. Maybe there are better solutions, but it still remains (at least partly) OUR problem too!

Michael,
"Seb probably doens't believe in ANY business.
"
Uh, yeah, businesses exist, dude. I do believe that. Don't know where you got the idea that I didn't. I've even had a couple businesses of my own. I'm not sure even you know what you're talking about there.
If you love Bart's idea, then give him your money and follow his rules. I would find it ecologically incorrect, for starters, but I will not debate you.

It is interesting to read BonaireTalk. Here's an interesting tank theft story. Four of us in two different p/u trucks left after lunch to do the Hooker and Alice having picked up two tanks for the afternoon. Dummy me left his comp/reg on the table (doing dive logs from the morning dives during lunch). I had to drive back to get it while my dive buddy waited. The two in the other truck did their dive. I returned and did the Hooker with my buddy during which the other two surfaced. While breaking down their gear they noticed two guys looking in our truck. They really noticed when one guy put his reg on a tank to (presumably) get a pressure reading. After that they switched a couple of empty tanks for our full ones and dove the Hooker. Our friends, waiting for us to do our planned second dive together, told us what had happened. We checked the tanks, found them empty, and noticed they were from a different dive shop. We went back to our shop and told them what had happened (with truck description, very telltale), they said they'd take care of it, we got two more tanks, and did our second dive. The end of the story is that these two guys (Dutch and island neophytes) had to "pay" for the "stolen" tanks. Seems they couldn't explain why they showed up to their refill station with only one tank each from their dive shop and one each from another. My buddy and I met these two guys and their wives later that night for a deco at Karel's and explained to them how the island had eyes. They were very embarrassed (doubly so when their wives understood what they had done) and we had a few (OK, several) beers on them. The moral of the story? Well, I still find that you can get two tanks for shore diving rather than just one and you won't have them stolen or replaced.

As an aside, if you're north at Karpata, or close, do you know about the shortcut back to the resorts (i.e. Buddys, Captain Don's, et ux) instead of driving all the way around through Rincon?

John, interesting story...good that your friends got their M.O...and got it straightened out...I bet those guys were embarrassed! The island does have "eyes" doesn't it!

Yep, know about the shortcut...but do we really want to tell everyone? I think it should be kept a secret ;-)

It would seem that there is a very interesting moral to this story: it ain't always that bad Bonairean youth (or any other on-islander) doing the stealing.

And brazen, with other divers right there??!!?? I wonder how many other times they had done this already, or did it again later.

Good to see the dive ops working together and acting on information.

On the other side, unfortunately 'the island' didn't have eyes here, only alert fellow divers. And would this have been reported anywhere if the watchers had not been friends???

Nice to see one instance 'resolved' but.... Sorry for the pessimism but ....

John, why on earth did your friends let them do this???

Seb, I thought that at first as well, but then maybe they feared there would be a nasty confrontation that could have turned ugly and someone might have gotten hurt?

Seb, Cynde is correct. Our friends are two middle aged ladies and confronting two 20 something guys was not something they wanted to do especially since the guys were brazen enough to switch the tanks. So they waited and told us what had happened. My buddy and I could have confronted as well but we, also middle-aged, decided to let the respective dive shops handle it. We had their descriptions, their vehicle had a very identifying logo on it, we had their tanks, and we had their tag number. They were waiting for them when they returned to the drive through. They could have lost their park tags which meant no more diving. In the end they got a warning, paid a fee, and met us (our request) to apologize that evening. They confessed to a lapse of judgment and incivility. They actually turned out to be quite nice.

Quite nice? Morally bankrupt thieves is more like it.