What do you do if you reach Atlantis on a windy day, to do a dive, and you observe several kitesurfers (about 6) right there, in front of the fishermen's hut? As a proper certified open water diver, you do your orientation and decide whether the circumstances are good for you to do your dive...

You decide to enter the water, with surfers sailing and jumping somewhere along the drop off. You do your dive, but on the way back you loose your orientation and you decide to come up in +/- 20 feet of water to check the coast to see where you are. Whooops, then this kitesurfer passes 6 feet in front of you!! A bit startled, you submerge again. Me, the kitesurfer, does not know what you are thinking (probably something like: bloody kitesurfer!!) but I get really ticked off and am thinking: what the .... got into your head to pop up like that?!!!
If I would have hit you, you would have a big bump on your head and I would have a big problem, considering the big controversy of kitesurfing.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say you coming up like that (knowing there was surfing-activity) was very irresponsible, you could at least carry a flag, send a tube (sausage) or whatever so everybody could see where you were. Normally I would have been able to see your bubbles, but because of the extraordinary chops that day, I didn’t.

Now, I know the controversy of us being there, but that’s an other story. All I want to say here is: let's go about our sports responsibly. We try to stay in one spot, so you won't encounter us over the whole coastline and if you do plan a dive there, please carry a tube or a flag, be safe!

Swa, I do not understand the "controversy of kite surfers using a small portion of Bonaire's coast. The area in question is a portion of the Marine Park and you are entitled to use it the same as a snorkler or diver. Your suggestion that if a diver's wants to share the site, or adjacent site, they deploy a safety sausage or simliar buoy on ascent is excellent. Personally I would never dive the open water without a "safety sausage" on my person. You have outlined another use for a very valuable piece of safety equipment.

However one question, do kitesurfers purchase a Marine Park Tag ??? If they do then there would be no issue or at least should be no issue.

Once again, I find myself in total agreement with the wisdom expressed by the gentleman from N'Ahlins

I am not too sure this would even be legal. Below is the text taken directly from the official marine park rules, I for one consider a kitesurfer the same as a jetski and it's for sure more dangerous to swimmers and divers than a dingy which is also subject to the rules.


FROM THE MARINE PARK WEB PAGE>

Boats may travel only in blue water. Swimmers, snorkellers and divers use Bonaire's shallow coastal waters. Therefore all boats (including dinghys) may travel only in blue water well away from the shore, anchored boats and mooring buoys.

Dead slow in shallow water. The following regulations are strictly enforced:

The speed limit is 5 knots when passing within 75 m (230 ft) of the shore.
The Bay of Kralendijk is a 'no wake' zone. You must travel seaward of the public yacht moorings.
Do not pass within 50 m of a boat on a mooring.
No craft longer than 3 m (12 ft) may pass landward of the yellow moorings and boats at anchor.
Jet skis and water-skis may not operate within 200 m of the moorings. They may only be used in blue water and are completely prohibited in Lac Bay. In shallow water they must travel dead slow.

Right on, Herman, I agree with you. Thank you for posting the marine park rules. They seem clear to me. I found it odd that Swa's post makes it appear that a diver's surfacing in 20 feet of water is hazardous, although it is routine. 20' is the light blue water. And I always believed that no vessels are allowed that close in. 200 meters is a long distance!

P.S. kitesurfers wouldn't even kite or surf if going 5 knots, right?

I was wondering what the situation was regarding Kitesurfers- On my trip we waited for about 45 mins for the surfers to leave the area before diving- but we were concerned about what would have happened if they had appeared during our dive. Obiously a diver always looks up when surfacing, but the surfers can go at a fair old lick- and don't make any warning noise.
The particular day we were there, the surfers were definately way close to shore and in what would be considered shallow water (like 15ft).
It's not that I don't want to share the water, but it did seem a little strange so close to shore and such a heavily trafficed dive area.

Herman, you state the Park Rules well, BUT the kite surfers boards are well under 3 meters, by no means can they be considered "boats" or watercraft.

If kite surfers are using a site, don't dive there until they are done. I have never observed kitesurfers moving into a site occupied by diver's trucks. I have noted windsurfers cruising the shallows of Bonaire for extended distances. Now that is a large object moving quite fast...hell half the time the kite surfers aren't touching the water anywayy.

There are a number of dive sites available to us all !!! I honestly don't understand the herding need of some divers. I prefer a quiet site with no one around. Go dive at the Pink Bus !!!

Thanks mr. Kritagent for understanding (you were the one that showed us there does not have to be a problem when a diver uses a sausage!)
I was expecting a lot of criticism on this post, and it is not that I don't understand it, honestly. I do think however that it is not quite clear to others which situation the surfers have. We talked to marine park, they too started about the rules and we tried to explain them in many ways that obeying those rules means we have to risk our lives by starting sailing half a km. out of shore with off shore winds! And coming in dead slow means you'll drift off any way, because you don't have enough speed to cut upwind to get to shore. Surely you can understand that this is a very bad option! Just remember we did not choose to be there, we rather be in the spot were we do not bother divers and were everybody surfs. But as you may know, this is banned. So what are we supposed to do? Unfortunately, BMP has shown little cooperation regarding this, we pointed out the problems for us and tried to get solutions. Nothing so far. Government kicks us out of a safe bay, and that's it basically. 'Go surf a km out of the coast with off shore winds, and we'll try to be as intolerant as we can.'
So we turn to divers for a bit of understanding and to work something out. We already met quite some divers who showed comprehension and interest, that was inspiring.

Regarding the almost incident: I am not saying the surfacing in 20 ft. of water at itself is hazardous. I am just saying given the circumstances it was not a wise thing to do it that way. And I know we don't have the marine park rules on our side, but I don't think it's far to slap us in the face with them; this is a special case. Please come around during the weekend when there's kitesurfing, I'll explain every detail, if necessary, I'll even give you a drag with the kite so you can feel for yourself you can't compare us to sailing boats, motorboats or windsurfers. We really tried work something out with BMP, but when push came to shove, they said: 'oh right, we did not set the boating rules, you have to turn to the harbour master' And unfortunately he too is as cooperative as a fire coral. Touch it, and you get burned. That's what I mean with controversy of the sport.
So is there even a small possibility we can get some understanding from divers until a good solution is worked out? We won't hassle you at the other 70 divesites you have at your disposition....

Oh right, and if there's less than 9 knots of wind, we won't be out any way.

Swa,
Do you and other kitesurfers purchase the Marine Park tag?

Whether you call them water craft or you call them water skis, the rule is the same for both, and quite specific, dead slow in shallow water, which is for use by divers, snorkelers, and swimmers.

Seb, I really think you need to visit the Fisherman's Hut and watch the kite surfers for awhile. Maybe you will get a better idea of what "dead slow" does to them. We all can share Bonaire, it is that very simple.

You would think from Swa's posting that kitesurfing has to be accommodated by divers. Divers have cultivated Bonaire and Bonaire has cultivated divers. Kitesurfing is a new fad. Dead slow in shallow water is for safety of swimmers, snorkelers, and divers! Of course it is no good for kite surfing. Swa says "given the circumstances": referring to surfacing at the end of the dive in shallow water. The circumstances divers should expect is NO fast moving craft in shallow water. Period.

I can't help not chiming in on this. There's a BUNCH of shore diving spots on Bonaire and I guess I'm just a bit uncomfortable with an unequivical NO to the kite surfers. There would seem to me to be some kind of accomodation that could be reached to keep everybody happy. After all, we let those bad old salt boats use their pier and they let us use it when they're not around. Maybe the kiters could come up with some kind of their own "pink bus" to ensure the safety of kiters and divers when they're in the area. My concern is the idea that "that's the way it is and there's no changing allowed"...are we going to outlaw UW scooters too.

Just my two shekels

the cheesester

Niki, I am not sure how you interpret Swa's post to indicate diver's have to accomodate kite surfers. It appears they are attempting to find a way the sports can co-exist within the same enviornment. She was suggesting if divers were going to use the same stretch of beach, it would be safer for both parties if a diver were deploy a warning buoy. Actually It would be much safer if diver just move down to the next dive site.

And I have a feeling diving and wind surfing were considered a "fad" when they first hit the market. Give em room, Bonaire is not that small, just some of the people are.

I guess I'm not quite done ranting on this one:

:-)


To quote Swa: "If I would have hit you, you would have a big bump on your head and I would have a big problem, considering the big controversy of kitesurfing."

I think if I were hit in the head, I might be seriously hurt or drown, and he's worried about losing his exemption from common sense and marine park rules. He doesn't want to get in trouble!

I do have compassion for his enthusiasm for a new sport. Yet the marine park rules are there for the purpose of creating a haven for the enjoyment of the UNDERWATER reef environment. A rare place on earth.

What is the big deal here??? If there are kite surfers, go to another spot or just watch them. If there are divers in the water (can be noticed by abandoned cars at the shore), wait before they are out of the water or go further of the coast.

Safety is needed for all the people who use the water for their hobby, so we all have to be careful and judge every situation before we start swimming, boating, diving, surfing, fishing (indeed, even fishing, have you ever been hooked by a fisher man??)

I know there are often problems with boat-people (and just for the record: I consider a (kite)-surfer a boat-person) and divers/swimmers/snorkelers. But on the other hand, why should we make such a big deal about it? Divers don't stay under for more than 90 minutes and there are more spot's than just this spot where the surfers are having their piece of the fun one can have on Bonaire. I just might visit Swa next week or in April and see for myself what kite-surfing is all about before I tell them they can not use the coastal waters of Bonaire for surfing.

Just my 2 cents.

So current practice is to set aside a shore diving spot for the use of kitesurfers? One site in particular, or a changing site?

What it *feels* like, speed, flying, etc., such as roller coaster thrills, I think shouldn't cloud our judgment.

Nope, I just tried to point out we could all enjoy the same spot, as long as we are using some common sense and if one group is there, the others will wait. It might be the same as not diving at town pier or saltpier if there are boats moving around.

For what I've understood, the kite surfers are only "allowed" to use one spot only.

Yes, taking turns, as it were.

So, Swa, do you have an assigned site?

My two cents (if I have any):
I do agree that these folks should be given opportunity to revel in their (way cool) sport.
However!!! Those boards should indeed be considered watercraft (as are windsurfers by the way) and their operators need to follow current laws--or have them changed. Getting hit by a board skeg travelling at 30+ knots would probably result in a fatality. Maybe a good idea to have a rotating site that was specific for one activity alone? What's the deal with Lac Bay? Did the windsurfer's get upset? Anyone know?

"Herman, you state the Park Rules well, BUT the kite surfers boards are well under 3 meters, by no means can they be considered "boats" or watercraft"

I have to disagree, while they may not make 3 meters I am guessing they are 2 1/2 meter or better and regardless of the size at 8-20 knots, if it hits you, you are in serious trouble. A fast moving object on the water is a watercraft, regardless of it's size.

I kind of equate this to the problem we have had here in the states with jetskis. By their very nature they must be operated fast and on the edge of control to get the excitement the operators enjoy. The trouble is that many (not all) of the operators are just plain irresponsible. Jetskis have been ban in a lot of places and are restricted in a lot of others because they have proven themselves a hazard. I have no problem with sectioning off a section of the coast for kite surfing and keeping divers out but the sharing an area is not going to work. Kite surfers go too fast to be safe in the same area as swimmers and divers.

By the way, why is kitesurfing not allowed on Lac Bay? I would think it would be compatible with wind surfing.

Right, and isn't that why they were banned from Lac Bay? (Sharing didn't work)

Jamie, there has been a lot of discussion of kiting in Lac Bay on the board (a search will give info).

I have to agree with Herman and Niki on this...I don't think that the kiting and diving mix. It is a tragedy waiting to happen. I'm not saying that kiting should not be allowed, but I do think that the Marine Park rules are there for the SAFETY of all people (and animals) participating in recreational activities in the waters around Bonaire. Maybe designated days, at a designated spot for kiters...like they let divers at Salt Pier on certain days. This way everyone knows what to expect...

No, we don't have an assigned site, that's the whole problem! Basically we can be everywhere we want except for lac Bay! This is ridiculous, so we try to keep everybody at one spot, so at least the problems stick to one spot. And Nikki, we don't ask you to set aside anything, just to show where you are. Makes us all more comfortable.

Believe me if I say we really did not ask for this. I did not want to bring up this subject, but i have the feeling I need to:
When still in Lac bay we talked to BMP, their main concern was not environment (as is claimed) their concern was safety on the beach. Exactly what we wanted too. Okay, so we make a proposition, in meantime BMP is overruled by the decision of Government banning the sport. Period. Next thing we know, we read an email from BMP with a 'sorry guys we did not know about this, otherwise we would not have you make a proposal regarding beach/water use in the bay' So what the h.. happened there? You see, we really tried to stay away from divesites and had many ideas of how we could regulate this sport in watersports bay Lac. But the door was slammed in our face and there's still no good alternative. I know this is not your problem, but still, now you know how we end up in your divesite.

You are right when saying; divers should not have to expect a fast watercraft/something in shallow waters -in general-
But is it too much to ask to be a little more flexible in this case?
I'm sorry, but I can't understand why one of you would basically say: "I don't care why you can't go dead slow, just obey the rules, because they are for us and we were here first!"

I like the idea of a 'pink kite bus' however! Brilliant idea.

To answer your question Susan; kitesurfers do not buy BMP tags, we suggested it when we were still in the bay (so a proper orientation could be handed over together with it) and they said they were still working on watersports tags. I do have a tag, but only use it when i go 50 feet under. And with kiting I'm mostly 10 feet above... ;)

Okay, so let me get this straight... It is not your sport of choice, but it is a water sport. It does not pollute, it does not require input of petroleum products, but it is conducted in "our" ocean, it is not loud (save the occasional whoops of pure joy from getting serious air), it is hazardous mainly to the enthusiast or the occasional lost diver (heard of a compass ??), you are envious of their abilities and thrill so what you want to do is either ban it or segregate it to a strip 6 feet wide that extends to Curacao..

Come on people, we are talking about 8 - 10 people enjoying a sport that most of us would love to try but either are too old, too fat or too scared... I repeat my earlier statement... Give Em a Break, Share Bonaire !!!

oh, by the way, designated spots and designated days too is a brilliant solution, really. But we had loads of meetings about that with every stakeholder concerned. (That includes CURO the diver's organization) and we did not get anywhere. Still working on that, this request to you all is just for the time being....

You can count me out of the list of old, fat, scared or envious, C.K. . :-) I'm young, thin, brave, and safety-rule-conscious... (Divers in the shallows are not lost.) Just want this worked our before someone's head is bashed in.

Swa, I think the reaction is not a thing like "the rules are made for us, so obey them", it's more a case of the rules are made for SAFETY of all the people and animals using the water, so just obey them. That's a totally different approach.

Also, 8-10 people today leads to 80-100 people tomorrow? Just curious, why did designating a site not gain support?

Much as you may not want to hear it, we are visitors who really do not have any pull in the governance of Bonaire. We can have opinions (and boy do we ever), but ultimately you're going to have to continue to do what you've been doing - meeting with the people who DO have a say, as frustrating to you as this may be.

I do not have a strong opionion about kite-surfers, although I do have a very strong opinion about being clonked on the head by one - I'm totally against it.

It would seem reasonable to designate a spot for kitesurfing, and also to require all kitesurfers to go through an orientation, be given a BMP tag once they've done so, and to get that tag yanked and their rights to kitesurf taken away should they ignore the rules as set forth to them.

Until that happens, you are the new kids on the block, and it behooves you and your kitesurfing brethren to be twice as diligent where it comes to interracting with divers. If you see cars parked at the site you want to use, you know there are divers there. They won't know you're there. Be smart, and maybe err on the side of caution.

Missing an hour of kiting vs decapitating an unsuspecting diver... which is worse?

Okay, this is going to be my last post: I do respect rules, I think they are good and useful. I try to explain however why the rules are a little off for us. If we could live up to the rules, we would. But that's just really hard (again: it is different than jetski's, sailboats, motor vessles!). When a kitesurfer can see where a diver surfaces, i think the problem is mostly solved, it just takes cooperation, don't you think? And can windsurfers and kitesurfers share?: yes they can. Everywhere in the world they do: in the same bay, but apart from eachother. But this is another discussion that we don't need to elaborate on here.

I think I'm done...

A big thanks to all of you who understand!
And a big sorry to all that don't

If anyone of you has more questions, remarks, suggestions, frustrations, feel free to email me. Or pass by next weekend (if you're lucky enough to be present on this island :D

SWA, I know you are now gone...however, you said "When a kitesurfer can see where a diver surfaces, i think the problem is mostly solved..." THAT I have a problem with...just plain frightening to me...just my two cents worth, because if I surface, and see a kite board 10 or 15 feet away from me, I'm gonna be upset...

Swa,

You know what the issues are, and you know the current rules.

You are having problems now getting people to hear your side, with only 8-10 kitesurfers. But imagine the issues with 80-100? And some of these being visitors who have no concern for the Marine Park or what it stands for, but are only interested in their own pleasure? This is what many are afraid of, and why you are not being welcomed.

What you need to do is write up a draft of rules for kitesurfers, and put down on paper what kind of orientation should be given to kitesurfers.

That will enable you to prove to "the powers that be" not only that you are aware of the issues but that you wish to provide solutions before the problems become tragic.

It's ultimately your issue, not ours. It's up to you to take positive action.

Swa, I do understand your dilemma. The kitesurfers see that the safety rules basically prohibit their activity, and don't want to accept that. They want to be accommodated. Maybe that will happen.

In our 120 or so dives in Bonaire in recent years, we have nearly every time surfaced in the shallows to check how close we are to the car or exit point. We don't take a flag. We never see others take flags. On Bonaire this has always been a relatively safe procedure. When our dive orientation changes to include our need to alert our presence to kitesurfers, we'll know.

Niki, I honestly hate to "lean" on you but...if you want to compare Bonaire time we can do that but it is kinda silly, my dive is bigger than your dive... however just because a dive orientation does not say take a flag, or sausage or buoy does not mean it is not the safe thing to do. If you all want to be really truly safe... don't go where you see the kites in the air, go dive by the big Pink Bus. The crowd should keep those horrid kite surfers away.

SusanF... IF the kite surfers were to become 80-100 strong they would most likely have a voice strong enough to establish a kite surfers area. Until then it is up to majority to accept a new dimension in the use of the waters, and establish an area where they can enjoy their sport on an island reputed for it's "diving freedom".

If kite surfing had come first we could very well find ourselves begging for a little space in which to go diving. The area surrounding the Fisherman's Hut is excellent for them. They need a sandy open space to inflate their kits, they need a sandy beach access to enter the water and get flying. Follow the Marine Park because rulez is rules.. nonsense !!!! If our forefathers followed the rules we would be drinking tea (yecch) in the AM.

SHARE BONAIRE !!!! I hereby avow that except to watch, get some serious surface interval, and wish I had one of them new-fangled kite thingees, I will remain clear of Fisherman's Hut whenever kitesurfers are doing their thing. I propose other divers do the same. Hell folks, Atlantis is only one little site and it's not that good a dive site anyway.

It's OK C.K. I might be little, but I can take a little leaning. :-) Did you only surface in knee deep water? After your 500 Bonaire dives?

Not that good, eh? Wild Side Larry directed us to a spectacular shore dive at Fisherman's Hut, one year. He told us where to find a frog fish, but darn it was too stealthy!

Niki... LOL I don't surface, I just slither ashore

Then Fisherman's Hut is worth the sharing..

In defense of the kitesurfers, they are organized and have had a set of safety guidelines in place for well over a year. see: http://www.infobonaire.com/kitesurf/safety.htm
One guideline states 'stay at least 200 feet from any divers or windsurfers'. I think all Swa was saying is that if you can be seen, a kitesurfer will avoid you like the plague.

About Marine Park Tags, anybody can buy a tag if they feel the desire to donate to the Marine Park. I know many dedicated snorkellers that buy Marine Park tags every year to show their support.

I got to think there are going to be more kitesurfers. Lac is a huge attraction to windsurfers and they are relative to kitesurfers (I think). I agree with CK, there's enough to share if there's open dialogue. Bonaire is way to nice a place to spoil over a conflict with people who like to enjoy themselves in different ways. I also don't think we can't wait for the government to "mandate" a compromise. There's got to be a middle ground and I hope we can find it.

Just my (second) two cents....dangit I'm running out of change

the cheesester

What a pleasure it is to see how a potentially contentious issue can be dealt with. Thanks to all of you who are participating in this thread for your willingness to hash it out and to respect and be kind to one another.

I am curious to delve into this when I next arrive on Bonaire. I like Fish Hut very much for diving, but I can see that it would be very possible to still enjoy it, say, during designated times a couple of times a week, in order to share the site with others.

Though I need to learn more about this, at first consideration I think that having divers and kitesurfers enjoying the site at the same time would be difficult. There are so many visitors to the island who would be unaware of the unusual danger, and the consequences are likely to be grave if there is a collision. This makes it difficult to have an informal agreement among only kitesurfers and divers in the know. I think a safe solution must be public and must be mandated by the Marine Park, so that every newcomer is educated to the point where no one is taken by surprise.

I've given this some more thought, and talked to Bob, a very experienced diver.

She's to be sympathized with, but Swa's is a fantasy solution: "When a kitesurfer can see where a diver surfaces, i think the problem is mostly solved, it just takes cooperation, don't you think?"

Bob and I have safety sausages. They are for use on the surface. But not on the way to the surface as an advance signal. We would shoot to the surface with all the air that goes in it. We inflate it at the surface to be visible if we are off course, separated, or hidden in swells. (Hasn't ever happened, by the way) Since dragging a float on your dive is a logistical impossibility, perhaps the fantasy object she imagines would be a flag on a stick, (or how about an orange Broncos mitt!) you wave above your head before you break the surface. Do you know anyone whose last 3 feet of buoyancy can be managed to let their hand wave a signal and keep their head below the depth of a speeding surf board keel? See how it seems like a fantasy?

Thanks for recognizing our civilized manner of discussion, Marlene, :-)

When I travel to a dive site and see kite surfers, I pull over and enjoy the incredible sight of these folks 'flying' in the air.
For safety reasons, I dive where surface sport activity is not present. I hope that kite surfers, when choosing a site to enjoy their sport, would pick a site where no cars are parked. Parked cars at dive sights = divers down.

Niki, Swa's concept is not a fantasy, she is a diver and knows what she is talking about. The safety sausage is not for use soley on the surface. For open water diving where there is not a beach or ascent line (ala Cozumel) attach (wrap around the sausage) 20 feet of nylon line and a small weight, when you reach 15 ft deploy the sausage thus indicating your position, and do your safety stop at the end of the line. Hang time comes in here. If you chose to dive where the kitesurfers are flying you could very easily deploy the sausage without affecting your bouyancy and warning the surfers. Seems simpler to dive a site or two down ????

I may be missing the point here but someone said:
"Since dragging a float on your dive is a logistical impossibility, perhaps the fantasy object she imagines would be a flag on a stick,"

Isnt that a definition of surface-marker buoy?
Here in UK there are many places where you have to use one on your dives - just so that other people (especially boats) can see where you are.
I understand that Bonaire doesnt insist on the use of these - and personally I'd think it was a shame if they did (not that I've dived there, but using an SMB is an extra complication!) but maybe there are areas where an SMB SHOULD be mandatory for divers?

The idea is, in coastal water NO surface vehicles should be moving faster than SLOOOOOOOOWWWW. That (well, I paraphrased a bit) is in the Marine Park rules. (See above) Hence, no need for markers, floats, whatever - the boats/watercraft/surface vehicles/whatever, aren't supposed to be there, or if they are there, they're not supposed to be moving faster than a crawl. This is for divers, swimmers and snorkelers.

So at this point, the divers have the rules on their side. If Swa wants some changes/amendments, she isn't going to get them from us - it's the BMP that makes the rules.

I might add, in re-reading Swa's opening message:

Although the kitesurfers were there first, it's very likely that once the divers entered the water, they should have (under the current rules) stopped their activity at that site.

Is it fair to kitesurfers? Nope. Is it the safest thing to do, under the current circumstances? Yup. A "bump" on the head is hardly the most likely result of a collision, and "a big problem" hardly the most likely consequence - you COULD kill someone.

Probably a good solution would be to add a rider to the BMP rules that, on days when the wind gusts over some set constant, certain dive sites are off-limits to divers, to allow the kitesurfers access.

Divers and kitesurfers concurrent at a dive site sounds like a REALLY bad idea to me. For now, the rules seem to favor divers, and as much as Swa doesn't want to give up air time, unless she wants to take the chance of killing someone, for now she'd be best off coming to shore if a diver enters the water.

SusanF, it would much simpler if divers, observing kite surfers at a site, just pick another site. It’s the same as you would when there are 12 or more vehicles at the Hilma Hooker. Damn the rules… if we all exercise just a little courtesy we can all enjoy the delights of Bonaire and this endless debate would not be necessary.

Good morning you all,

Oh, I do see what you're describing, C.K. The sausages *we* bought are fully attached to our BC.s, and not made for your scenario.

One day of discussion every so often is healthy, and the solution will be found. I think most readers of this current thread, will do exactly as we sometimes have to for many reasons: shop for a shore dive.

Having read Swa's story at the top, we can say we were warned.

The sausages inflate from our dump valves.

Niki, what kind of bc's are you using. I don't remember ever seeing such an arrangement..(this is just a diver's curosity)..Thanks

Mine's a SeaQuest Diva QD. The safety sausage is an AquaLung. I'll try to take a photo of it....

I admit I don't dive in other waters besides Bonaire's. So I am used to the status quo there. On the web, I just saw the kind of markers that you might have.

Thank you..

Of course it would be much simpler, but I've seen many instances where the best and simplest course was ignored, and for whatever reason (feelings of entitlement?) the opposite course taken.

It can't be guaranteed that ALL divers will just move on to another site. And at this point, divers have the rules on their side.

One thing that concerns me, looking at Swa's homepage: there's a mention that a kitesurfer could be picked up by a gust of wind and taken quite a distance out of their way, and out of their control.

With this lack of control, I'm not even sure I'd want to be the next dive site over. That is more than a little troublesome.

The Seaquest/Aqualung safety signal is called the S.O.S. and is an inflatable 4' or so long sausage in a covered pouch attached in place of the right side rear dump valve found on their BCs, and doubtless many others.

There is a pull strap that releases the covering flap and by over-inflating your BC the sausage inflates. It is NOT detachable. It's a gizmo designed by the famous UW photographer Stephen Frink (sp?) from Florida and strictly for surface use. He carries so much camera gear each dive his hands are not free to use a standard sausage so he came up with this idea and sold it to Aqualung.

There's a video of it at the seaquest/aqualung website.

That S.O.S. (Surface Observation Signal) can be checkout out at:

SOS DEVICE

If memory serves they cost under $70 USD

SusanF, nope nothing is guaranteed. However any diver with the least bit of experience and/or courtesy will note the kite surfers and move to another site, or in my case stop and watch the show.

Their so-called "out of control" is a negligible issue, if you have a real concern about being struck by an out of control kite surfer you will not find them much further North of Fisherman's Hut, sooooo.

Randy P. Thanks for the site. I can now understand Niki's issues with using her "sausage" as an early warning device.

Thanks, Randy. Here's the picture:

A is your usual air dump, no different than usual.
B is your release for the SOS. Pulling B allows air to inflate C, the rolled up sausage.

Wow, over-compressed that photo to stay under 50K. It was sharp before... :-)

(Will black and white take up fewer K? Forgive the test.)

It wasn't any better, so I bailed.

C.,

I suggest you read the "Safety" page Swa has put up: http://www.infobonaire.com/kitesurf/safety.htm

So negligible it's mentioned along with a lot of other things that don't scream out "control" to me. And Swa's relatively experienced - put a weekend-warrior in one of those rigs and I wouldn't want to be within miles of the debacle to follow.

You or I may say, I don't care - I'll move on to another site, after I watch this for a while. Someone else may not. Are they within their rights to go in right there? Yup - the marine park rules say they are.

I happen to believe that all people, including both divers and kitesurfers, are capable of astounding stupidity and selfishness. I've seen it myself in divers - why should I not believe kitesurfers equally capable of doing tragically stupid and dangerous (to both themselves and to ME) things?

It's all very well to go all happy-happy, joy-joy, we should all learn to live together - but in the REAL world it's about as likely to happen as you or I sprouting wings and gills, and becoming amphibious avians.

There will ALWAYS be someone who wants to dive THAT site, who already dove ALL THE OTHER sites and this is their LAST chance to dive here until the next vacation; or someone who has ONE MORE DAY left to kitesurf and darnit, they're GONNA kitesurf, RIGHT NOW, so what if there are cars already parked here - which is why I think there is a need to define and enforce some new rules, if diving and kitesurfing are to co-exist.

Niki, I got the pic Our safety sausages are rolled up and are in our BC pockets (along with a mirror). I use my back dump valve more than my inflator hose, so that wouldn't work for me unfortunately, but it is pretty slick! I like the fact that all you have to do is reach back and pull the strap and it inflates.

SusanF... I read the site immediately after Linda posted it. I fear you are the driver in the left hand lane going exactly the speed limit and damn everybody else trying to pass because you are in the right...the sign says so.

Bonaire is not the "REAL" world, it is what we chose to make it. And from considering the last paragraph of your last post, you have my deepest sympathies. There are too damn rules in the world already.

SusanF... I read the site immediately after Linda posted it. I fear you are the driver in the left hand lane going exactly the speed limit and damn everybody else trying to pass because you are in the right...the sign says so.

Bonaire is not the "REAL" world, it is what we chose to make it. I feel your pain but there are too damn many rules already. If you expect the worst you will never be disappointed

Thanks Niki, your picture was fine and gave me more info that the SeaQuest Ad..

EEEEEEEEP! Wrong, bucko.

But have it your way - all the divers who go to Bonaire are perfect, and will all agree to go along with you, because, after all, Bonaire is a kinder, gentler place where we all get along. Never mind the spear fisherman they recently caught, or the people I've seen all but assaulting the poor seahorses with their macro framers, or the ones who put so much weight on they're all but bouncing off the coral... granted they're in the minority but stop and think: why is that? It's because BMP exists and has rules.

Man, I wish I was on your meds.

Cynde, I use that dump all the time too. It works just as it always did. It's only when you release the tube that air from the fully inflated BC inflates it. That was the first thing I asked when we got them: can I still dump air from the back like I'm used to doing? Yes, you can.

Susan, buddy, I'll send you some of mine! (grin)

Thanks, Niki - all I got is Vioxx, it's not even fun!

SusanF..."EEEEEEEEP! Wrong, bucko" why did I know you would have a police whistle ... as to the "Bucko" comment, I expected better, something along the lines of "You in a heapa trouble boy".

As to my "meds", I wish you were too...I really do.

C.
Some of us have a grasp on reality.

"Bonaire is not the "REAL" world, it is what we chose to make it."

Yeah, sure. Oh, and please tell that to the 60ish couple pistol-whipped last week.

I love Bonaire. That doesn't mean I need to go visit an alternate universe where all is peachy keen and kinder and gentler to appreciate it.

It also doesn't mean I have to have delusions about the small subset of humanity that scubadive, and start to believe that once they set foot on Bonairean soil they'll lose all their (our!) flaws, start dancing and singing "Come-on People, Smile on Each Other, Everybody get together and Love one another RIGHT NOW!"

Wonderful as Bonaire might be, it isn't THAT good.

S.F. "Wonderful as Bonaire might be, it isn't THAT good." Well, you know the alternative...by the way which verse of KUMBAYA would you care to join in on ???

Can't we all just be friends (stuffing a bougainvillea blossom in SusanF's gun barrel)

"Well, you know the alternative?" Is that supposed to mean something?

No thanks - my friends are dear, true friends. You seem to be under the impression that a friend would toss snide comments your way. How sad for you.

Yes...

As to friends, where do you ever get your impressions?

C.....I think the verses of Kumbaya are all the same. I find it a bit troubling that we started toward identifying some kind of resolution that would allow the kitesurfers their space and the divers theirs. Now we're in a bit of a )*&&$)# match over who knows best whats good for Bonaire. The whole idea that it's the last chance on the last day and "I've just got to dive Fish Hut" really don't make a lot of sense to me if there's kiters there. I'd suggest that the same logic could be applied to salt pier and I doubt if anyone would dive under the salt barge. SWA started this discussion, I think, to try to find a mutually acceptable solution. Perhaps we, the divers, should be a bit accomodating to the kiters and ask only that they do the same

cheesatitude

I could not agree more that all parties need to recognize each other's rights. Now, what the heck is cheesatitude ???

Ya have to know all the words to Kumbaya before I can divulge that secret

cheeseme

Or be on the cheeselatitude...

Thanks, Oh Wondrous Cheese-meister, for bringing some light and calm and cheezy goodness to what became, in my humble opinion, a senseless squabble.

Cheese on good sir, and for those who don't, cheese off!

Great, this thread has gone bye-bye.. Next thing you know we will adoring Andy's pants... shessh.

OBTW Joe, I know all the words, all four of em..

C...I just can't let the last word go by without me. I lied, there's at least 3 verses to Kumbaya....Just a hint on cheesatitude...a cheeser woulda said
"next thing you know we will adoring Andy's pants....CHEESE"

I MISS BONAIRE

unable to think of a cheese name today

justjoe

Joe, "unable to think of a cheese name today"

dat's gouda !!! (ya wanna play?)

Okay, I said I was done discussing... I still am (for now ). Just wanted to say: thanks to all of you, your opinions, ideas, criticism and support are appreciated. The insight the discussion gave me is inspiring.
Thanks for keeping the thread polite and respectful!

Have a good weekend,

The cheese head
(Thanks to Joe I thought of the nickname the Dutch have, haha)

Ruh Roh.........the dutchman took my name

I'll try my new one

FunchiBoy

Krit, you've mistaken the refrain for the whole song.

Seb, desperate for something to chat about ???

No Krit, just trying to shine the light of information through the smoke of confusion.