By Robert M. Schmon (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 2:41 pm: |
I have just read of the tragic presumed drowning of Tom and Brandon Ennis who failed to surface after a dive at Karpata on Jan. 2nd. We just checked our log books and I noticed that though I was windsurfing that morning, my two daughters were doing a boat dive at Bloodlet. I further noticed that they entered the water at approximately 9:00 AM, probably around the same time as Tom and Brandon a few hundred yards away. They reported nothing out of the ordinary in terms of current, visibility and general conditions. I therefore have a safety and prevention question. What plausible theoretical possibilities could cause such an event? I’ve been trying to come up with some answers but most of them seem far-fetched. I can certainly understand how a solo diver could get into a major jam, but it seems with two there are enough backup options for at least one of the divers to make the surface in the event of something catastrophic happening to the other. Are there documented similar cases of two or more divers not returning and explanations as to why? Many thanks.
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By Petti Fogger (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 3:43 pm: |
It is rare for two divers to drown.
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #438) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 4:26 pm: |
We were on the island when the accident occurred and offer our deepest sympathy to the family for their loss. All of us have probably asked similar questions that Robert asks..."what scenarios could allow this to happen?"
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By Jerry Besco (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 8:35 pm: |
It accured to me as I read the scenario of the day of the accident why did the two children wait so long in reporting the missing divers. They left at 8 am and authorities were not notified until 11pm. All of us should learn if we have'nt returned within two hours after a dive a flag should go up to those on shore.
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By Robert M. Schmon (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 11:22 pm: |
Yes, it occurred to me as well Jerry, though I fear an earlier missing-divers report would not have changed the outcome of this tragedy, but probably would have significantly increased the chances of finding the bodies, and perhaps gaining clues as to how it happened. My daughters told me that their boat that morning was in fact heading for Karpata but veered over to Bloodlet when they saw another dive boat was there, so apparently there was no shortage of divers on the site at the time, though sadly the chances of any of them knowing there was a major problem occurring nearby was remote. I completely concur with you that there are lessons to be learned, and I am doing just that by the very thoughtful answers given by Petti, Gregg and you which I appreciate.
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By Hendrik Frohlich (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 3:37 am: |
I heard that Tom and Brandon Ennis asked about deep diving at their dive school, but as one of them was newly qualified the dive school was against it. Karpata is a known spot for deep diving and, whilst other possibilities cant be ruled out, it is possible that they did a deep dive there. Deep diving is very dangerous even for 2 people as below 40 metres (120 feet) you may start feeling drugged from the narcosis and your concerns will vanish. So you drop further to 60 etc without noticing what you are doing. Basically, all diving accidents I have heard in of in Bonaire were related to deep diving so the best advice is not to do it unless you really know what you are doing. It's just not worth it, and most of the time there is anyway nothing of special interest down there.
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By Will Chetwood (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 7:37 am: |
I would not wish to speculate on what happened in a specific tragic incident. However, talking in general terms, my experience is that problems start most often when divers exceed their training and experience. I agree with Hendrik that deep diving is only for those with proper training/experience although I might argue that narcossis can cut in for some people shallower than 40 metres. His point, I think, is of more general relevance. We are told (or should be) when we first qualify that we are qualified to dive in circumstances similar to those in which we trained. Unfortunately, some of us forget the need to build up experience/training. My normal diving buddy has just returned from a diving holiday where he had to rescue a panicking diver from over 35 metres (115 ft.). After the rescue it turned out that the person he rescued had only done five previous dives. My buddy is a divemaster with several hundred dives behind him. If someone less experienced/competent had attempted the rescue, a double tragedy could well have occurred. What the other diver was doing at that depth is anyone's guess.
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By Jane Marie Garchinsky (BonaireTalker - Post #50) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:38 am: |
I too am truly sorry for the Ennis family tragedy..I want to pass along a potential problem I just experienced. Not knowing what kind of regulators they were using. I was diving Small Wall last week and decided to drop down to the sandy bottom for no other reason than to see how deep that was..I know that was not very smart to say the least, but the point is that my Sherwood Brut regulator felt like it was about to seize up at 114'. I'm not a dive master or anything close but I do have a few hundred dive under my belt. I almost panicked when the sensation to get a breath was like the proverbial golf ball and the garden hose. I know my reg is a cheapy for sure and I will tuned it up before my next trip to Bonaire.. But, is that typical for an unbalanced regulator at that depth to be extremely hard to breath through?
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By Will Chetwood (BonaireTalker - Post #48) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:54 am: |
Its a potential problem with the design of some unbalanced regulators that breathing effort increases as the external pressure/depth increases. I don't know the specific regulator but it not a universal problem. I have an unbalanced old scubapro that breathes fine at depths deeper than 114'. However its probably best to check out how any reg you are not familiar with breathes at depth fairly cautiously. If your buddy had run out of air at that stage and you had to supply an alternate, the sensation would have been worse. Glad the panic was only "almost"!!
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #439) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:06 am: |
Jane,
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #10279) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 2:07 pm: |
Jane, do you have your reg serviced annually? You should have your reg serviced annually if you dive on a regular basis...and if you haven't used it in a couple years or so, it should be serviced by a professional (like Bruce at Carib) or at your local dive shop where you live. It's worth the money each year to know that it is in proper working condition...just my 2 cents worth.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #186) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 5:49 pm: |
Hi Jane,
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By Jane Marie Garchinsky (BonaireTalker - Post #51) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 8:44 am: |
Hi, Gregg, Cynde, Will & Randy
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By Matthew J. Stine (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:36 am: |
Hi guys,
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1632) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 12:39 pm: |
Nothing that poisonous around Bonaire. The worst thing is fire coral. So unlikely.
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By Robert M. Schmon (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 1:46 pm: |
Mathew, nothing can be ruled out. Again, what makes this puzzling is that there were two divers lost. Though I think an encounter with an aggressive predator is unlikely in Bonaire, some sort of contact with something that stings or bites and perhaps combined with one or all of the other factors we have considered: depth, equipment malfunction, panicking of one diver, the other diver refusing to leave the other behind…etc. could all come into play. I still find it difficult to conceive of circumstances that would preclude the inflation of the buoyancy devices by at least one of the divers at some point in the event, but alas, some tragic circumstance transpired that made that impossible even for a diver with much experience. Having said that, the daylight search for the divers started virtually a day after the event, and it is possible they were able to inflate one or more of the BCD’s, but ultimately upon surfacing not in a condition to make it to shore and drifted into the open sea. Like everyone else, this tragedy on Karpata—one of the favorite sites for many who dive in Bonaire—is a sober reminder to not take anything for granted, and I find this discussion very useful in terms of considering various possibilities and how I might deal with them in the future to prevent disaster. For example, a day or two before this tragedy I myself was at 110-120 feet off Karpata with my two daughters.
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1304) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 2:42 pm: |
How far away were you from each other at that depth Robert? The deeper you go, the closer you ought to be. I'm beginning to think every deep diver ought to have an alternate independent air source (someone will correct my terminology I'm sure) and it should be part of the AOW course.
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By Robert M. Schmon (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 4:05 pm: |
These are all excellent questions Seb, and in light of this tragedy and the discussion we are having here, I certainly consider myself having received a wake-up call, and prior to our next diving adventure I plan to formally review with my daughters, on the surface and underwater, as many drills and emergency ‘what-if’ scenarios I (and the instructor) can think up. I also think your idea of having an independent breathing device—such as those carried by solo divers, is probably a wise insurance at depth. My daughters are teenagers (16 and 18) have NAUII advanced certifications and about 45 to 50 dives under their young belts, love the underwater environment, are meticulous in pre-dive buddy checks and assembly, and to my eye have always been very sensible and controlled underwater. The question again is the deeper you go the tougher it is to correct a problem. Ashley had her BCD malfunction, but it was at 20 feet and early in the dive(not the Karpata day). She surfaced, had it fixed, and went back down. Her question later was, “imagine if it had happened at 100 feet.” Well I think the point we’re all reminded of is, you DO have to imagine how you would handle it at 60 or 100 or 130 feet, and any number of other problems at that depth, or not go there. Our morning on Karpata we did a relatively deep water anchor in 60 or 70 feet of water. Once on the reef, we worked our way across and down and maxed out briefly in the 110-120 foot range before easing our way up to the 60-70 foot range where we spent the body of the dive. I would need to check my computer, but we were below 90 feet for no more than 5 minutes or so. My daughters were very close together, but in hindsight I was clearly not as close to them as I should have been—though constantly had an eye on them, and we quite frankly got a bit deeper than we had intended, planned, or wanted to go—however briefly. Needless to say I was keeping a keen eye on my computer and we were always within the no-decompression times, but I reviewed that dive closely with my daughters at the time and scolded us all (myself most of all) on the importance of staying closer together at that depth. Incidentally, the advanced certification program we all took has a deep diving component to it, so they did have experience at depth. As for me, I have more experience at depth than I should have having dived for years with a close mate who is ex-seal, and in his youth—shall we say—a bit crazy! (Didn’t we all feel invincible then?) When I think of the depths and things we did in our 20s off the ledge in Nassau, it is amazing we are still here. I like to think I am the opposite now, and take the safety issues extremely seriously which is why I enquired about this incident in the first place. Thanks again.
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #10295) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 6:48 pm: |
Seb, breathing off your octo occationally...good advice. We generally do that on a safety stop every few dives...while we are waiting...put in the octo and give it a little experience. Our octo's are small, and they definitely breathe heavier than our primaries do, the first time we did it it was a bit alarming even at 15 feet because I had to work a little harder to get air. We'll most likely switch in the next year and upgrade to a better octos (ours are 5 years old and when we bought them, it was explained that you really don't need an "expensive" reg for your octo, which after breathing off mine several times, I have to disagree)...it's interesting, doing this (testing your octo on safety stops or any other time) was never covered in our OW or Advanced course.
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1307) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:42 pm: |
I would expect othing less from my favorite
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #187) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 2:28 am: |
First to Jane, sounds like a plan kiddo. I hope I didn't sound like an alarmist, but I admit to falling victim to my local shop's simple sales pitch."Think of your reg as your ONLY parachute. How good a parachute would you like?" -lol I bought an Atomic B1/T2.
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #10301) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 2:16 pm: |
Seb, ;-) Randy and Seb, thanks for the info on your octo's...I know that we will be looking into upgrading ours (probably sooner than later). 5 years isn't old, but breathing from them is what makes me want to upgrade to a better octo...also I just got ours back yesterday from their annual service, and I have to say I don't mind spending the money, especially when they replace parts (and give you the old parts back so you can see what they replaced)...Last 2 years in a row parts on mine have been replaced, but nothing on Michael's has ever been replaced...which is odd because I "think" I take better care of mine after dives than he does!
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1308) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 7:34 pm: |
Cynde, I cannot understand how they have never replaced anything on Michaels regulator, I think the diaphragm ought to be replaced every year, o rings, all that stuff. Our diaphragms and o rings are all replaced when the units are annually serviced. The new Scubapro parts are free with servicing, BTW.
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By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #251) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 8:35 pm: |
Seb,
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By Smokey Braden (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 10:24 pm: |
i use a sherwood brute.
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By Mary Wills (BonaireTalker - Post #19) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 10:41 pm: |
C. Krit, Our scubapros are serviced yearly by a scubapro dealer using free scubapro parts. To do otherwise would void the warranty.
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By Mary Wills (BonaireTalker - Post #20) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 10:56 pm: |
Just a quick two cents worth for those who forget to check their gauges and sometimes find themselves deeper than planned:
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By Igor van Riel (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2236) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:22 am: |
Ok I have 2 jump in...
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #10310) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
Seb, for the sixty bucks it costs for each reg to be serviced, they do perform all the maintenance and replace orings, etc. If there are parts to be replaced total up to more than the sixty, then they have to call and get authorization to replace those parts. They always give us back the parts they replaced
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By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #253) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 12:34 pm: |
Igor,
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By Robert M. Schmon (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |
Igor, like you my first thought about the buddy line idea was that it would be too constraining and potentially dangerous unless one or preferably both divers had considerable rescue skills, but upon further reflection realized that there would be some circumstances where it would be a good idea. A bit of research came up with the following (and I quote):
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #448) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 12:43 pm: |
I have Bruce Bowker service my Sherwood regulators once per year (or if there is a problem) while in Bonaire. Bruce does a terrific job at much better prices. If there is a problem with the regulator while on Bonaire, he is there to fix it. He replaces parts when necessary, not just because he services it. He usually can do it same day. This past September, Bruce took one apart, inspected it and then said it was fine and did not need servicing...no charge. Given the choice, I'd prefer to spend my $$ with Bruce.
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By Will Chetwood (BonaireTalker - Post #49) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 1:10 pm: |
Igor
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By Igor van Riel (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2242) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 2:38 pm: |
Thx 4 the input. I wasn't considering the buddy-line 4 Bonaire, but it could be a handy add-on 4 the dutch waters (where we often cannot see our own fins ). I must say I like the idea of you, Will, 2 use one on the first night dive. We have never done one, but I would love 2 try it. Cinthie is a bit wary though and I think the line would make her feel safer.
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #10312) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 3:03 pm: |
Greg, to have our regs serviced by Bruce would cost about 5 grand (the price of a trip to Bon from the left coast)...unfortunately, we don't get to Bonaire annually and do most of our diving locally But good to know if someone goes to the island on a regular basis
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By Robert M. Schmon (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #8) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 3:19 pm: |
Igor, I'm afraid my daughters are at an age where leashes below or above the water are not going to be very popular! Having said that we're also into another sport where they are essential: rockclimbing. It sounds as if there are conditions in Holland where they would be very reassuring.
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By Mary Wills (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 4:22 pm: |
Igor, I do have a buddy line attached to my bc. I've never had to use it and I put it on my bc after a surface current swept me away from a dive boat in Dominica. I would only use it on the surface to clip myself to my buddy.
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By Meryl Virga (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3985) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:28 am: |
We usually send our regulators and BCD's out for service from our local dive shop once a year. Diving on Bonaire and doing alot of shore dives we tend to have sand/coral rubble get washed into our regs on re-entry. We have had alot of problems with free flowing regs. and this last trip Steves BCD filled up with air that he had to disconnect the hose under water (very difficult to do!) as he was flying to the surface. I know I read somewhere that the Dad on that unfortunate dive's computer said he had done 5 dives that day. If something had happened to him, his newly certified son maynot have had the skill yet or quick response ability to help. I do not know if the family had an autopsy done, or if it would have shown anything else other than drowning as a cause of death (exp. heart attack, aneurysm) I know I personally could be in better physical health and strength, I also notice ALOT of divers in much worse condition. Yes it is an easy sport to breath and float, but when conditions turn bad, current, or having to help our buddy in from a dive we BETTER be able to do this... It is a shame that it takes circumstances like these to happen for many of us to reacess our skills (myself being # one)
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By Igor van Riel (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2262) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 11:16 am: |
Another nice way 2 use a buddy-line! Thx Mary. I think I will get one.
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By Gail Thomas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #160) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 1:38 pm: |
Merle, It was an 8 am dive - really not possible to have done 5 dives already. And the bodies were never recovered. Gail
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By Robert M. Schmon (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 1:45 pm: |
Meryl, You may have the tragic accident we’ve been discussing here mixed up with another. Unless I’ve missed some new information, neither diver has yet been found, and the search was called off after several days. Also, I believe the fatal dive was the first dive of the day for both father and son as they left their hotel at 8:00 AM, and presumably drove straight to Karpata. But again, please correct me if I’ve missed some later news on the tragedy.
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By Meryl Virga (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3988) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 2:12 pm: |
The last day that we were on the island 1/11/04 we went to the Donkey Santuary, Marina told us that she heard that the divers were found in 250 feet of water,,,and that the Dad's dive computer registered he had done five dives that day????
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By Meryl Virga (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3989) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 2:29 pm: |
Going back to the Local Items page on Bonaire Talk, I scrolled down to about the 26th post? It is after the translation of the local papers report.It is a post from the Woman (Barbara W.) a friend of the family... she started the thread...and she states that the bodies were found...
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By Linnea Wijkhof-Wimberly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #614) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 2:33 pm: |
When I clean my gear after I return from a boat trip or shore dive on a non-local trip, I always hook my reg and BC up to a used tank and run water thru and purge the reg and autoinflator with air pressure behind them. When I am on a local shore dive (SoCal) I always do this before breaking down my gear. This helps keep the sand and such from building up and reduces the corrosion from salt water. I also pour fresh water over my first stage and 'dust' cap and dry them off before I turn off my air. That is one reason I prefer to break down my own gear even on dive vacations.
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By Linda Richter - NetTech (Moderator - Post #1643) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 4:11 pm: |
No bodies were retrieved or any gear found. Barbara had heard a rumor and posted a message on BT. She later retracted that statement. Two full tanks were found in the truck so it was assumed they were on their first dive of the day.
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By Meryl Virga (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3993) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 7:08 pm: |
Thanks Linda.
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By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #31) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 8:09 pm: |
Meryl..Your earlier message on staying in shape or being in halfway decent physical condition is right on the mark. In the early days of diving (& for me that's back in the 60's) the sport was filled with athletes that proudly posed with their trophy on the end of a spear. Over the decades, the gear morphed into what it is today; thereby making diving more safer & in the process opening it up to many more people who did not have the athletic prowess of the sport's predecessors.. This is a double edged sword.Between you & me I'm certainly not in the best shape but I always engage in some form of cardiovascular exercise.
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By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #192) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 9:24 pm: |
Sherwood Regulators are very good under most recreational conditions but when passing the 120ft+ mark I wouldn't own one. I personally had the top of the line 'Maximus' reg that was only two years old and serviced annually. I used that reg and passed the 150ft and noticed it was like sucking a golfballs through the garden hose. I aborted the dive at 155ft. After returning to my diveshop I traded up to all Zeagles for primary, secondary and stage bottles all except for one on my oxygen bottle which is a ScubaPro (totally different shape and feel-so in zero light I know its my O2 deco reg) They breath like no other at 200ft+. I have dived many different areas and have noticed at least one or two divers that probably wouldn't be diving if their doctors know they were doing it. Not only should we be concern about physical aspects but also the mental aspects as well, no one should be diving deep without proper training and mental conditioning. Both go hand in hand with properly serviced equipment capable of handling deeper depths than one would expect to reach.
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By T-Shirt Divers John and Sue (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 5:15 pm: |
For all those who like to deep dive to 130 ft.,
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