BonaireTalk Discussion Group
Diving Bonaire: Wrecks & Boat Dives
Bonaire Talk: Diving Bonaire: Archives: Archives 1999-2005: Archives - 2003-05-01 to 2004-02-15: Wrecks & Boat Dives
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jenny Braun (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 8:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I liked the info on the new wreck...do you get there from shore? Do they boats normally take you to places that you can't get to from shore? What other wrecks are there to see...I love wreck dives!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #110) on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 9:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The Hilma Hooker is a major wreck accessible from the beach. Most of the resorts will take you there by boat BUT as the wreck is sitting in 100 fsw, they will limited your bottom time to 20 minutes. The best way is to shore dive, then you can visit one of the better reefs sites on the island on your way back up. There is an old cabin cruiser sitting off Capt Don's Habitat in less than 30 fsw, the hulk of an old lifeboat in 130 fsw at the bottom of the reef off Capt Don's and a sunken tug boat in 90 fsw off what is left of the dock at what is left of the old Sunset Beach Hotel.

The resort boats will take you to a variety of the shore dive sites on Bonaire. These sites are accessible from the beach by using a vehicle. IF the resort offers a trip to Klein Bonaire (small offshore island), take that boat because these sites are in far better shape (reef wise) as they are not visited as often by divers. And, you stand a much better chance of seeing bigger fish and turtles.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #205) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:15 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jeremy,

do a search on this board for "windjammer". Really nice wreck, but really deep.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #319) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 2:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Peter

Is it a good idea to recommend the Windjammer when you do not someones certification level, experience or sex?

Or am I waaaay off track.

Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2684) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 3:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brian, I can relate to the first 2 things (certification level and experience), but what does being male or female has to do with the Windjammer?? I consider myself an experienced diver, but I think (I even know), I have to let one, two or even three of my (female) buddies first when it comes to difficult dives.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jenny Braun (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 3:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

No need to worry...I'm Advanced Open Water Certified and have experience...Love deep wrecks! I'm a girl also....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob caat (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 4:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I believe the Windjammer is in about 160 feet. It is not a recreational dive.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2685) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 4:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It's in between 160 and 220 feet, it's kind of deep indeed... It can be done as a tech dive, but you must be proparly trained to make the dive.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By spongebob (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1109) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 6:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

well, for certain, the windjammer is not a "sissy" dive and that could have accounted for the off reference...

i'm pretty sure a little experience and some good supervision would suffice however...



 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #113) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 8:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If you really want to visit the Windjammer, do it safely, be accompanied by a person with the proper experience, equipment and credentials. Visit our very own Walt III at www.rectecscuba.com.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christin (BonaireTalker - Post #56) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 8:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have done the dive, it was deep but not hard. Of course that is an opinion but I think anyone who likes deep dives and is relaxed can get there.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #114) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 9:02 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Christin, anybody can make the trip to touch the hull, ascend and say "I dove the Windjammer". This dive is past recreational dive limits ............ nevermind, this thread has been done and overdone. OBTW... don't forget Cooper's Barge at 154 fsw.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #162) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 9:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I agree with C. Kritagent - It's a definite trimix dive for safety and remembrance.

jiminiŽ

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #12) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The windjammer has historic value in seeing but is not an easy dive. The Hilma Hooker should never have been left on the bottom, it looks like a big piece of junk. On an island so rich in nature with corals and fish who needs the wrecks?
The latest episode is an old Danish fishing boat, it would be of greater value in a museum than it is on the shores of Bonaire. There are not the resources on Bonaire to salvage the latest wreck again as it already had an expensive chapter when it took on water the first time on Bonaire. Well it makes for a good discussion. Bonaire is a natural diving treasure, it should not be changed to an underwater junkyard...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #320) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 1:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Martin

Good Morning - being male or female has nothing to do with the Windjammer. But Jenny is a female and Jeremy's are normally male. Look carefully at the posts ;-}

Louis

Wrecks do take some diving pressure off the reef and attract more fish, so maybe there is a place for a few suitable wrecks.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #206) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 4:08 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brian, I did not recommend to Jenny to DIVE the Windjammer, I recommended to search the board for info. She can then decide for herself to do the dive or not.

Jim, why do you say "definite TRIMIX"? Even PADI states that 60 metres is within recreational range? I have discussed "deep diving" at length with some of the profis on Bonaire. Somebody made the comment that if you have an accident on air, you have a good chance of surviving. The recompression chamber staff knows how to deal with those accidents. If you have an accident on Trimix, your chances of surviving are limited.

I'm not certified on Trimix, so I don't know whether this is true or not. Can anybody shed some light on this statement?

Peter

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Chetwood (BonaireTalker - Post #40) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 4:58 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I dont want to start too much of a controversy but I do not think it is correct to say that PADI regard a 60 metre dive as "recreational". In the open water course for example 40 metres is stated to be the absolute maximum depth for those with specialist training (i.e. deep specialty). The new tec courses do go beyond the 40m limit but I do not think PADI regard these as " recreational".

The difficulties with a 60 metre dive include of course both the fact that you are likely to be into decompression and nitrogen narcossis. Many divers would experience serious narcossis at this depth. I appreciate that you are an experienced diver and aware of this. However I wanted to post something in case a less experienced diver read your post and thought it OK to go to 60m without proper training/experience because it was "recreational". For them the advice to visit someone like Walt III is good advice indeed.

As regards, the problems of recompression chambers, I look forward to reading the posts of those better qualified than me. However I would not have expected trimix to cause problems as it contains lighter gasses which would presumably be exchanged more not less efficiently in recompression.


 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1464) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 7:24 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Trimix can cause DCS: any gas that goes into solution in the blood under pressure greater than the surface pressure can do that.

H2 is lighter and goes in and out of solution faster than N2 so it requires a different decompression time/depth regimen than air. Not a simple one-for-one replacement. As with Nitrox, specific training different from air training is necessary.

 

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2689) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brian,

OK, you win, I missed that one. :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Epley (BonaireTalker - Post #72) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 1:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

When I inquired about the Windjammer prior to my recent trip, one shop responded that they required the following:

The windjammer requirements are as followed:
1 Rescue diver or higher certification
2 Nitrox certification
3 at least 100 Dives
4 at least 30 dives at 110 ft (preferably deeper)
5 No more then two guided divers at a time
6 No night dives the day before
7 No more then two dives the day before (not deep dives)
8 No more dives on the Windjammer day

Sounds like a good set of requirements.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #322) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 2:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Martin

And I thought my eyesight was bad, I feel beeter since looking at Peter's profile as my night dive lighting are two 4 xAA pencil lights - maybe I can cancel the visit to the Optician.

James

good points - Walt (Rectec) would be my choice of guide for the Jammer.

Peter

My points are 50/50 ernest/good humour. I and my wife use 3 computers each (well you buy a better one and what do you with the old) and I let someone borrow one the day before they left and looking at the computer - against advice they obviously did the Windjammer cause someone told them it was a great dive.

Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #163) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 6:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Peter~

First I'm not certified Trimix either, but will be next month when I train for trimix in Utila by Protecdive of Mexico (IANTD)- . I, myself, would not go that deep on air with Eanx as a deco, I practice DIR. I go by the book which limits my diving to 50m on air thru the RecTec program. By being limited to 50m is the reason I'm going for my trimix certification. Going deeper safely is my goal, I'm not out to impress anyone. But I am one of the few divers who are addicted to depths- far beyond recreational limits, easily into technical limits.

All gases change their characteristics under pressure. Helium is no different, but it does absorb and leave the body quicker than Nitrogen which is why decompression stops began well below the 100 ft range depending on the max. depth of the dive. It also throws into play High Pressure Neurological Syndome as shallow as 400fsw (120msw) with Heliox but Trimix extends the HPNS risk to depths of 500fsw (150 msw) or deeper. To use Heliox would eliminate the use of nitrogen but add the risk of HPNS. Adding nitrogen to that mix of heliox than becomes trimix and the reason for using nitrogen is to buffer the HPNS effect and enables a faster descent than helium alone and extands the depth of where HPNS becomes a problem. The greatest danger in tech diving is narcosis and the inabliltiy to respond to muilti-task reasoning. Trimix gives the advantage of realistic decompressions, lower gas cost compared to heliox or heliair; control over hyperoxia; hypoxia; hypercapnia and the work of breathing. Although air and Eanx is far cheaper than trimix the safety margins are far greater with trimix if used and trained for properly. Trimix diving limits are also determined by the END that one wants to dive within - a 170ft (51m) dive with 14ox/45He would have an END of 73ft. thus less chance of nitrogen narcosis.

It may be said that recompression chambers treat air victims easiler may very well be true but than again it depends on each dive case. Saying that statement is too general for any conclusions regarding whether air/Eanx dives is easiler to treat than trimix dives accidents. I would believe just the greater depths would be the deciding factor not whether it was an air dive or helium mix. Since decompression begins at around 180ft for trimix (generally depending again on max. depths) the chance for problems are MAYBE more dependent on the number of stages bottles; equipment systems; and proper training and depth control. More equipment, more chances of problems, more reasons for better dive planning, etc. Whether the recompression chamber treats air victims with better results than trimix victims is like comparing apples to oranges. Although both are technical dives (or are they?) trimix is the most extreme of the two dives, taken to the limits of gear and training and to depths way beyond what air tech divers can safety do...

The one nice thing about diving is the freedom to dive one's own profile. I prefer diving trimix if given a chance for the safety factor.

jiminiŽ

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #207) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 2:41 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim,

thanks for your explanation.
Your limit is 50 metres on air, mine is 60. When I go beyond 60 (not if), it will be on Trimix as well, prefereably on RB.
But even with a limit of 50, you can have a nice dive on the Windjammer. The 60 is only reached near the crowsnest. So the Windjammer is definitely not off-limits for the 99% of air-breathers that visit Bonaire. It just requires the correct experience. James list was right on the dot.

I'm still hoping to get some feedback on the air DCS vs. Trimix DCS. I posted the same question on scubaboard in the "Ask Dr. Decompression" forum (http://www.scubaboard.com/t34752/s.html). So far not too many responses.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #115) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:50 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Peter, when a huge majority of the divers that come to Bonaire are recreational divers and limit their depths to less 40 meters or less and have absoutely no experience with serious nitrogen narcosis, please tell me on what you base your statement "So the Windjammer is definitely not off-limits for the 99% of air-breathers that visit Bonaire."

I think it would be better stated a Windjammer dive is off-limit for all but 1% of divers that visit Bonaire. This, and the fact that your are diving almost directly under the deepwater oil tankers, is probable why the entry is not marked.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #164) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 8:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Somewhat of an educated guess here but I would say that total OTU's would be a factor in any recompression treatment. If you were already at the higher limits of the daily OTU's of whole body oxygen toxicity at the end of the dive than had trouble, I doubt that any oxygen would be given to you in the Decompression Chamber??? Thus decreasing your chances for a full recovery. What we need here is someone with chamber experience who actually knows! CNS O2 toxicity is the greatest risk to a technical diver along with Nitrogen Narcosis; in technical diving the PO2 can not exceed 1.5 ATA and recommended is 1.4 ATA Is there a "Chamber Maid" out there somewhere? Hey I'm going back under my rock...Chow

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here is a little blast from the past!
At the outset, I think it was Carl Roesler who organised some of the first dives on the Winjammer on Bonaire. Please bear in mind this would have been in the mid 70's. At the time there was not a Decompression Chamber on Bonaire, in fact the closest one was Curacao. Next as you may guess there was not nitrox on the island much less dive computers. In fact, hold your breath, most tanks were steel! In those days divers used dive tables. I suspect there were dives where a rig (tank and regulator)were left at about 60 ft to allow for decompression and safety stops. Divers had not been looking at computer screens all day and were still able to look at the dive tables to calculate your max bottom time.
Oh yes, you would feel our old friend nitrogen so if you went 160 feet (40 meters approximately) you felt like 5 martinis! In those days there was a song on the radio that went" oh what a feeling .... "
There were few octopus rigs and the buoyancy compensator was just being introduced so most divers had horse collars. Oh and by the way, there was no Bopec terminal at the time so you did not have to dodge the tankers though it was not long after that the terminal was built. No I did not dive the Winjammer but I did do 165 feet and I did not have an open water certification at the time because it did not exist! I wound up having to get an open water certification later because I had forgotten my original YMCA certification on a subsequent trip, but that is another wreck of a story. Please carry on with your really entertaining chain about current diving conditions. Let us see, to have a minimal comfort level you need double titanium tripple bypass regulator, collision activated BC, gauge with GPS, compass, lithium flashlight with high intensity high beam long lasting battery, swim fins with fast release quick coupling, double insulated water cooled wet suit with auto adjusting thermal adapting capability with digital monitoring, mask by Dior, Chanel weight belt, and an underwater digital mickey mouse watch, etc etc etc
There was by the way a TV documentary done about the Winjammer in case you decide you dont have the certifications, whistles bells and anything else you now need to dive. bubble bubble bubble up you go...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #119) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 7:41 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hmmmm, certified in 74, does't believe in modern safety equipment, dove all the way to 165 ft, darn Louis you must be ready for a nap :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1466) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 9:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Lots of good, and safe diving, was done, and still can be, without 'modern safety equipment'. The equipment doesn't make for safety in itself-- the diver was and still is the key ingredient. Novice divers, and experienced ones, still have 'accidents'.

Better equipment makes it easier to do more, and possible to do some things at all, but I don't believe Louis needs a nap. After all, he is a relatively new diver!! He had a horse-collar instead of a half-Mae West and probably had an SPG instead of a J-valve on the steel tank, and one of those new-fangled single hose regulators!

Way to go, Louis. By the way, I don't read his post that he 'doesn't believe in modern safety equipment', just not in the hype. Been there and done that, and knows.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #120) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 11:47 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Glenn, training and experience remains the key. If you lose control of your situation all the equipment (new or antique) won't do you any good, I think this is probable what you were trying to say....if so I agree.

And I think it is good you are there for Louis, Y-divers need to stick together !!! :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #209) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 2:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi C.

What I meant with the 99% was that 99% of the divers visiting Bonaire probably are not qualified to dive Trimix, I did not mean that 99% should dive the Windjammer.

I have a problem with statements that imply that the Windjammer is Trimix-only dive. This is not the case.

I also think you underestimate the skill level of your fellow divers. On any day you'll find multiple cars at the Bopec reef. Most of the divers have doubles on their back, stage bottles, etc. They look well prepared.

Just my opinion.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 3:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Peter,

I appreciate the clarification... as to Windjammer being a trimix only dive, I wholly agree that as with most dives, it is the diver's choice. Elimination or reduction of the affects of nitrogen narcosis is, to me, the benefit of using mixed gas.. I have dove the "Jammer" on air, decoed on Ean and when discussing the dive without consulting my gear, had wholly forgotten my max depth. This has made a "believer" although not a preacher out of me.

And as to the vehicles at Bopec with doubles, stage bottles, etc. they may look VERY well prepared, but apparently so did the young man last November, and he is dead. There are very few persons on Bonaire fully qualified to descend to this and other deep sites. But, each must weight the risks, then you take your chances and you must pay the price. So long as a diver understands these chances (risks) and is not pressured into "doing the dive", I will save a parking spot for them.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #16) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

According to some of your I am ready for a nap,
cause I was certified in 1974, I dont think so!

I respect the sea and love the sea, in particular that which is shared by Bonaire. Glenn understood my thoughts. I am a Y and PADI diver, my instructors were some of the best Bonaire has known, Captain Don Stewart and A Bruce Bowker.

The initial instruction for basic certification in the 70's was more rigorous than current certification but clever marketing has resulted in more courses ($'s) ie nature diver, wreck diver, open water diver, rescue diver etc. The need for understanding the principles has also been almost eliminated, in dive computers we trust ( hope your batteries dont die and your unit wont flood) It is like on an airplane, you can go economy, business or first class but at one time all people were passengers and received first class treatment. Who ever thinks I need a nap might comment on mummyfication with regard to the last time passengers received that kind of treatment!

My best instructor was and remains my father, Ralph Dessau who was also my first dive buddy. (He by the way always believed in naps and still does.)

Some achievements in diving well let us see 1st prize underwater photography 1975 with a Nikonos II that I still use and that has never been flooded! Dad by the was using a Hasselblad in its housing.
Together we made a 24 minute documentary "En Defensa de Mar" for the 3rd congress on the law of the sea which I also attended in Caracas, Venezuela. Again no flooding or bends or narcosis problems with as many as 3 dives per day using tables.
Now on my second regulator, the first one still works but US Divers does not have parts for it any more and it was meant for 2250 psi which is also no longer available.
Label me an antique if you want, but I dive for sheer pleasure and not to impress anyone with an inordinate amount of stuff on me. I tried the single stage double hose regulator the Cousteau Cagnan got us all started on and I would bet some of you experts on the air gas mix dont know who these people are.
As for safety, I think being alive and still enjoying diving says something about that area of competence.

Now I revert to my initial comment, ya dont need the wrecks to enjoy scuba, if the splendor of the corral reef and the fishes not to mention the visibility dont do it for you, then you missed the whole point! Even Jules Verne who wrote about the depths had to use his imagination for what simple technology has provided us the privilege to experience. Be safe, enjoy the beauty of scuba diving on Bonaire with or without nitrox, shallow or deep, save water & shower with a friend
but dont hold your breath.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Feldman (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #626) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 9:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here, here, Louis! I read the passages above to my husband, and he said "Absolutely!"

-- Susan, just recently certified a few years ago, but my husband - my best teacher - has been certified since 1968.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #331) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:19 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Louis

Well said.

I am not sure about only the modern courses being a bit off topic as from his talks Cap'n Don used to guide or teach some pretty odd underwater specialities - Or was that the 90% true part. Would have made for an interesting badge. ;-}

Brian

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peggy Bowen (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #210) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 5:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Glad to see that there are some of us 'older' divers on this board that will admit to learning prior to SPG and single hose regs. But must admit that we trained with both in the pool and most of us bought those new single hose regs and an SPG (the gauge faced the end of the hose!) All the 'fancy stuff' doesn't make a safer diver - you still should know what to do in an emergency. It itn't the first problem that gets you, but the second or third problem. Can remember doing lots of mask clearing, weight belt ditching (hell on the pool bottom), switching tanks with your buddy (double hose was easier than getting wrapped up in the single hose...) without you mask on, and endless instructors turning off air and flooding your mask. Those that survived the class were divers. There was pride that you passed because you really had to work for it! And you knew what to do if you had any type of problem.
The Windjammer isn't for someone that doesn't feel they could cope with three emergencies at more than 125 feet. And you are not under the tankers, it just seems that way when they are moving!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1473) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 8:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Re 'modern safety equipment': a two-hose regulator and J-valve tank had safety advantages over today's single hose regs with a pillar/K-valve. The two-hose gave warning of low air, breathing with noticeably increasing resistance for 3-4 breaths before 'nothing' and the J-valve (properly maintained and used, before you knowledgeable ones jump in!! :–) ) gave a 500 psi 'safe second' air supply.

Today, the modern, easy breathing regulator and tank/pillar valve combinations simply stop cold at nothing in mid-inhale, if you get half a breath! (I hope no one here has experienced this 'in anger') The Heinke 2-hose did that and I nearly lost a friend from it-- he had been told but didn't think of it in the water, being used to 'American' regs. This one reason why many divers 'split' their rigs one way or another.

I am not advocating going back to past gear-- I like my rig today; just pointing out that 'progress' isn't always in a good direction and modern' isn't necessarily better.

Good to have you back, Peggy. Missed you at BtS.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #165) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 9:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Glen~
I agree with you whole heartly about no warning; as I was practicing diving with a drysuit in a pool while the dive instructor was with open water students I ran out of air, no warning-no breath left; none for the inflator, lucky for me the dive instructor was close by and seen that expression of "what the hell on my face" and came over by me and helped me up. SHOCK was the word of the day that night, I froze. Didn't even try to dump my weights, never thought that I would run out of air at 9ft... Good lesson - watch your gauges.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1474) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:15 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Exactly, Jim. I think it would be instructive to all students to experience just what you did, sitting in shallow water with an instructor watching each one. Nothing like experiencing it under control.

And you make a point for another flaw in today's 'modern safety gear': emergency buoyancy control. A BC with power inflator requires ditching weights or a quick swim up to gain buoyancy and breathing air. Dropping weights immediately destroys all buoyancy control ability, especially with a wet or dry suit.

That is why I like the British concept (that I use) of the 'bottle BC' with a SpareAir-size bottle feeding the BC through a pillar valve with a built-in non-return (a tire valve core). A quick turn of the valve adds some buoyancy without destroying control. As you rise, you can vent the BC to maintain a safe ascent rate, and breath a few breaths, slowly and with exhaling, from the tank because you are 'out of air' at a depth-- the tank is not 'empty' at depth.

And with a Buddy AutoAir 'safe second' (also on my BC) instead of a simple auto inflator or an inflator-breathing-only second stage on the power inflator hose, the diver also has several breaths from the BC tank to reach the surface or go up enough to breath a few breaths again from the 'out of air' main tank. The AutoAir automatically takes breathing air from the BC tank or main tank, whichever has the higher pressure.

Both these are good safety things but I seem to be in the minority.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #166) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Glen~

We both are probably in the minority when it comes to back up air systems. Although I almost never dive with singles anymore when I did I always had a pony and regulator as back up. But your point about a secondary bc inflator is a very good point. No air - no auto inflate.. NOW my pony will have a spare bd inflator hose attached to it, I have a few extras laying around somewhere... Thanks for making that point, Point well taken.

jiminiŽ

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1479) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:24 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim.

Maybe the way to do it with an always-carried pony is to rig the power inflator to the pony, giving a 'safe second' supply that will be there, ready, without you having to redo connections under some added stress. That hose could be rigged over the same shoulder as the primary reg inflator hose usually is. Requires an occasional check of the pony pressure but you do have an SPG on that reg too, don't you??? ;–)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #167) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 6:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Glen~

Rigging a "safe second from the pony" would be possible, do you mean a permanent type double setup on the inflator hose or just using the pony as the primary inflator system with the main tank as the secondary? Than on the other hand, if you would have to switch inflators it shouldn't be a problem if both hoses were rubber banded together with only one connected to the inflator. That way it should be an easy switch maneuver. Keeping with KISS...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1480) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 1:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I meant permanently connecting the inflator to the pony and leaving the main tank out of that all together. That would be my version of KISS. Two together leaves the possibility of connecting the 'wrong' one. :–)

Tying the two together would eliminate finding the 'other' one. We were talking of main tank 'out-of-air' situations so I would think it best to have the inflator on the pony as first choice.

Isn't it fun designing, deciding and building!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #862) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 12:49 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Let me say I know nothing about this, but have been interested in a pony of some sort for solo diving. I never thought about having the pony to put air into the bc to ascend. I like to think I'd just blow into my Air ll to inflate my BC or even drop some weight, rather than use some of my precious left pony bottle, leaving the exhalations in the BC and staying away from using the bc air as breathing air in any but the most extreme situation.
I have been trying to figure out the smallest usable pony size, I see a lot of 13 cu' listed for sale and endless heated debate about Spare Air. I'd like to try one out at depth and see how much it holds.
I guess I want a small pony that straps to my tank with it's own reg/long hose and small 2nd stage that is always on draped over my right shoulder. I suppose I ought to have an spg in there too, and stick my compass and backup computer on that hose.
My worst case scenario is alone at fifty feet, air stops, purge air ll, no air, pick up pony reg and purge, if good ascend to thirty feed rapidly, slow ascent as much as possible to ten feet, burn pony and surface.
Or would i just become Rocket man, saved from embolism only by a loooong scream?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #210) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 1:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Seb,

I know another worst case scenario. Solo dive to 100 ft, air stops, you go for the spare air and then you notice you lost it.

I have a couple of complaints about the spare air:
1. easy to loose
2. too small
3. difficult to breathe from, you have to propertly purge the spare air or you inhale sea water.
4. They give a false sense of security

But I still take it with me. Better than nothing.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #867) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 2:26 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

How large a one do you have, Peter? Can you just purge it into your mouth?
I'm thinking a skinny long tank with it's own reg setup would be best, something that straps on the primary tank.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #869) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 2:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/30/112669.html?1062268127

I have started a pony bottle discussion, heaven help me.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #217) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 1:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Glen, Jim, Seb
Re: pony connected to BC, I'm just musing on how to route a drysuit hose, seems that could also come off the pony, no?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #170) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 4:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Fiona~

Re: Drysuit hose from pony seems like a good idea; actually, here in Northern Illinois only the rich can afford the comforts of the drysuit and the most hardcore divers with drysuits always seem to wear a pony also. The real tech divers who spend countless minutes decompressing usually have a separate pony containing Argon just for the purpose of inflating their drysuits. From a different point of view concerning Argon, one of my friends who is a tech instructor claims if he can't breath it he doesn't carry it. I'm not a "real tech diver" so I don't have that Argon system. :>) I haven't notice anyone with a pony that has a spare drysuit inflator hose connected to it - although it would be a good idea! Your suggestion is definitely something to think about just for the safety factor BUT wouldn't you, if your drysuit inflator hose failed, empty the air in your drysuit and switch back to your BCD for primary bouyancy and shut down the drysuit left arm exhaust and precede to end the dive with safety stops?

jiminiŽ

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #213) on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 7:37 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Since bouyancy can be controlled via either the BC or the drysuit, I would connect one hose to the BC from the main tank and another hose from the pony bottle to the drysuit. If you run out of air on the main, you can still get positive by inflating your suite. When I dive with my drysuit I hardly use my BC.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #19) on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 11:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

As we were saying at the outset, there was a new wreck on Bonaire. An old Danish boat and now we are talking pony tanks,dry suits etc. Is the new wreck going to be a trial run for raising the Bismark or are diving guidelines on Bonaire about to get very strict? What about snorkeling,will it be ok to use mask and snorkel or is some kind of jet propulsion being considered as well ?:+)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #172) on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 11:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe a diveshop in Bonaire will teach a course for commerical divers and "cut up" the new wreck? Pass the torch please...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #173) on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 11:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Louis~

From some of your previous posts it seems to me you don't like shipwrecks around the bottom of Bonaire. Aren't they just as important as fish in the sea? Aren't they a piece of maritime history? Since I been on this message board I can't remember anyone condemning any shipwrecks that belong to Bonaire except for you. What do you have against shipwrecks?? Are they that much different than anchors holding the bouy markers for the dive sites? Please reply I'm quite interested in your answer...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By spongebob (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1135) on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 1:57 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

hey jim,

i don't think it's the shipwrecks that has louis concerned, more it is the concern that some other diver's very strong opinions are somehow gonna diminish the diving freedom we enjoy on bonaire...

insurance companies are already making things tough on us here...yeah, we'll be getting drug test before you know it;)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 6:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Bonaire diving fans,
There are a host of locations around the world better suited for wrecks, the charm and beauty of Bonaire is such that you should not need more underwater entertainment. For many years Bonaire enjoyed simplicity in diving, why bring the rat race there? Already getting to Bonaire is a challenge why add more hurdles as you get ready to go diving. Would any reader at this site not agree that what is splendid is the ability to go just about anywhere on the coast and find splendid natural underwater life with wonderful visibility? Let there be no mistake in my views, I am against further wrecks on Bonaire but fine with them in the rest of the world for history, "sport" Scuba Diving, advanced certifications, artificial reefs, what ever but not on B O N A I R E !!!! Jim and Spongebob are we clear on this point of view? Dont vote for me, I am not running for anything, just want to go diving in Diver's paradise, Bonaire!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #878) on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 8:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

There is a difference between a shipwreck and an intentional or towaway sinking. Likewise when they sink ships on purpose they are supposed to be clean.
I realize that places like Town and Salt Piers are full of junk and that is part of the reason for the fishlife, but I don't think Bonaire needs to be ringed with oily, greasy, deadbeat scows either.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #174) on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 10:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Rat Race? Is that what you call sport divers? Or tourists? I'm afraid to tell you Louis but you're already in the rat race in Bonaire. Go to any diveshop in the US and the word "Bonaire" always comes up when recreational diving is mention. Sport diving in Bonaire is big business, no doubt about it. Money talks and if it takes cruise ships like in Cozumel to make more money for the greedy, than its going to happen. Seven or Eight cruise ships a day in Coz...One thing that you have that Coz doesn't is gambling...casinos.. That's a mighty powerful magnetic for some people - gambling is. A bit of advice, don't worry about the ships that are on the bottom worry about the ones sailing on the high seas, they are more damaging than any sunken vessel.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 11:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim,
So you consider Bonaire a rat race, overcrowded with divers.
Let us see, when I started diving Bonaire you could dive anywhere. In 2003 I am still able to rent a car and dive anywhere, a sense of freedom. Some places away from Bonaire you have the alternative to dive with 40 people or not to dive, I consider that a rat race.
I worry about what is on the bottom if wrecks are placed there to add to "the here is a new site", be sure and get the t shirt that says you dove there and by the way you need a new certification to dive in water you were diving before without i because now there is a piece of maritime junk that requires extra attention and maybe some new accessories etc. etc. (Hilma Hooker comes to my mind) Hey how about sinking a gambling boat so you can combine gambling and wreck diving, sounds like it could make amateurs out of Cozumel. Better yet, lets move the Titanic, so the Divers buy the DVD's.
Do you feel Kerpata has turned into Palancar? I dont think Bonaire tourism has reached that level of traffic yet (been there done that), the cruise ships have little to stop on Bonaire for yet. Sorry amigo, I worry about the bottom and the top. How is the Arnold Palmer Tiger Woods Golf Course coming along? buble buble buble

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #175) on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 10:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Louis~

As you have said the cruise ships have little to stop on Bonaire for yet, but its coming as sure as the suns sets everyday. I can't speak for all the divers but my local diveshop can't speak highly enough of Bonaire and its diving. The word is out largely because of the great divesites but also because the costs compared to Mexico and the other dive islands aren't all that much more expensive anymore. The airtime is getting shorter and the direct flights are just around the corner. I understand what you're saying about keeping Bonaire the way it is, but just the higher diver traffic flow will change that shortly. Let's face the fact that dive businesses need divers to make a profit and to sell as much as possible is a way of confirming the business will stay afloat. The sea doesn't need me or you, it has its own way of living each day with or without us, we're just intruders in the watery world. To keep Bonaire the way it was all depends at which timeframe you're speaking of? What about Bonaire before any divers? Too much?? Too far back?? I bet there were native divers thinking the same about you when you started diving in their territory, that you were the beginning of something or someone that wasn't very welcome. The beginning of the rat race thirty years ago coming and spoiling their fishing grounds... Causing unwanted laws that governed their lively hood. So to say you don't want the rat race coming to Bonaire is a matter of time and space and who was there first and who came later to "spoil" it for the natives... Now that your a diver who spend many dives in Bonaire, an old kid on the block, you can try to close the doors to newcomers and the more modern divegear with all the bells and whistles that they bring with them. You can make fun of them and their doubles and ponies and hi-performance regs and split fins; they will still come to dive, you can't stop it; won't happen my friend, its called progress. Even scubadiving has it...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #147) on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 6:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Whattsa matter with my split fins and hi-performance regulators ??? Shessh

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #176) on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 7:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Nothing from my point of view I have split fins for sport diving; power fins for technical. Just because an dive item is something new and maybe just a little better and easier to use Louis seems to dislike it. For the price of a high performance reg a person would be able to breath much easier using less air and having more bottom time, and that's what this high tech new dive gear coming on the market is supposed to do...Heck if diving started to get harder because the regs were getting harder to breath just like the good ol' days who would want to continue to dive sucking their lungs to the point of collaspe? Improve the scuba industry though better equipment and more comfort. Which in my book is definitely worth a premium price within reason. If one can afford new gear, why not? Afraid to try something new??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #26) on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 8:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim AND C. Kritagent,
I have nothing against new high performance regulators or split fins. What you are comfortable with is your business. What I regret is being pushed by industry to use things I dont need. I learned to dive on Bonaire with a single regulator that had a pressure gauge so you could see how much air was left in your tank. A simple depth gauge was used to keep track of depth and a water proof watch to keep track of time. There was a simple life vest in the event you had a problem to keep your head above the water in an emergency. If you needed weights to get down you used a weight belt, I was fortunate enough to be neutrally buoyant. The temperature of the water on Bonaire was and still is pleasant so no need for a wetsuit in the first 100 feet of water, it is unusual to get thermoclines. The regulator incidently required no more effort to breath then than my current regulator. I am still able to relax with ample bottom time and surface with a thousand pounds of air after 50 or 60 minutes depending on the depth and I dont hold my breath. Can you even begin to imagine such a pleasant and simple situation? Please note in the form of diving I mention and that I prefer, there is not one negative comment about high tech regulators or split fins.
Am I pleased to now have to wear a big old buoyancy compensator that I never fill or empty with air? the answer is no.
Am I happy to have to have an extra mouthpiece / regulator, the answer is no as I would expect my dive buddy to share with me hers (it is my wife so dont get any funny ideas).
Am I pleased to have to pay the extra cost to have the extra accessories imposed on me maintained, the answer is no. Lastly am I pleased to be told my dive will be 10 minutes less than another diver unless I rent or buy a dive computer, the answer is you guessed it is no and no this is not anything I have experienced on Bonaire yet.

Do I like technology? Yes, if I did not, would you would be reading this on your computer?

There is very insignificant improvement in the ease of breathing with a new regulator than there is with "old" regulators, they are both on demand. Inconvenience I have observed with new regulators is the greater frequency of freeflow because they were too sensitive and then you may find yourself in a place where they are not able to service it.

Soooo Jim and C. K let us not put words on the screen that I have not written.

Am I amused by the successful marketing of better scuba mousetraps? Definitely! But I am not amused when I have to buy things from which I do not benefit.

Jim, I will revert on progress, evolution and Bonaire, in the meantime once again, here is my plea for no more wrecks on Bonaire which is where I got started on this string.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #882) on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 9:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If you want to go wreck diving there are places for that. Just go there, and keep the unauthorized wrecks out of Bonaire.
Jim, I disagree, I think the sea needs each and every one of us to help it out.
I find it much more likely that Bonaire will become a retirement community than a cruise ship destination. But neither I nor anybody else can forsee the future, we just guess.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #148) on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 9:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Louis, To extend this thread waaay beyond a reasonable termination... May I inquire as to what items you are "required" to purchase from which you receive no benefit?

However, if you have had enough of this line of "questioning", I will not take a non-reply as an affront.. Diving, is to us both, a very personal thing. I chose my equipment for easy of operation, fit and function. However, when I am diving all the glitter and gee-whiz factor does not mean squat, I love diving and know full well that if I were to dive with an old double-hose (looking very much like a re-breather hose), and j-valve tank which was never filled properly, I would enjoy each dive just as much.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louis Dessau (BonaireTalker - Post #27) on Friday, September 5, 2003 - 12:07 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

C,
As I alluded to in my previous entry to this thread, the octopus has been no use to me and the BC has been no use to me, both of these are required for diving on Bonaire. The episode with the Dive Computer took place on Grand Cayman.
Seb,
Thanks for your views that share what I was trying to say all along.

Over and out on this thread!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #177) on Friday, September 5, 2003 - 11:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Seb~

If it wasn't for "man" there wouldn't be any problems with the oceans. We conquered it and pollunated it and than peed in it and now you think we are needed to help it??? We do more damage to the it than not... If we really had a great concern for it we wouldn't dive into it and would try to prevent anyone else from tresspassing in its waters either above it or below it. The ocean wouldn't need us if people didn't destroy its life and its original enviroment. Oil slicks; garbage dumping; cruise lines; freighters; navys; chemical runoffs; are just a few of "man's" helping. Let's give it a break don't go near the water for 100,000 years maybe some of what we destroyed will somehow return... Ok, Ok divers are still welcome but don't pee your wetsuits!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By spongebob (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1146) on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 12:27 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

i hate to do this;)

so maybe i want to build me a set of independent doubles...

i can see that a set of dive-rite super wings might be a good start...but i can't visualize all the hardware...can you give me the minimal hardware list after the wings...like a harness, a backplate, bands, etc...

thank you,

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #214) on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 1:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bob,

the minimum set would be the system I use because you can use it with your normal BC (if the backplate in the BC is strong enough). It is from Dive Rite.
Check out http://www.dive-rite.com/products/gas/ultra_systems.htm.

It can also be used to attach a pony bottle.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #178) on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 4:49 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

spongebob~

If you go to this website: www.leisurepro.com
you will find everything you need concerning independent doubles

1. Dive rite Independent Doubles $214.95
page 131 on the LeisurePro catalog
2. Crotch Strap $6.49
3. Tank straps for doubles -
4. SS Wing nuts for attaching to BCD -
5. Probably need extra weights -
6. Back plate - $39.95 to $104.95
7. Harness system - $29.95 to $44.95
8. Wings - $214.95 to $369.95
9. And two high quality first and second stage regulators; after all you want to go deep don't you?
10. Add some training and presto you're ready...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #152) on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 6:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

And you can be dressed like that very unfortunate young man that died deep diving last November.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By spongebob (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1147) on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 8:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

thanks jim,

that's what i was looking for - a list - from someone that might have used the equipment before;)

i don't plan on diving any differently - just a little safer maybe;)

and mr. C - i'm more likely to get sick reading weenie comments;)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #179) on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 8:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

spongebob~

Now let me add to what I already posted. C.K is correct, there are indeed increased risks diving deep but I pointed you in the right direction IF you get the proper training from an experienced instructor. All the equipment in the world with all the air capacity one would want isn't going to do your thinking for you, especially under stress and with multi-tasks situations arising from just one incident with the addition of nitrogen narcosis. From all the people who I have met in recent years that have dived with air to great depths and than have dived with trimix pointed out that what they thought they knew about safe diving wasn't what was actually happening on air.

May I suggest some changes to your doubles? Add an isolation valve and maniford with your doubles - than learn to shut them down within 30 seconds - everytime.. If your interested in diving with independent doubles than you're only a few steps away from diving with manifold doubles. That $200 for the independent system could be used towards a rebuilt like-new manifold system. Than you could buy used tanks bands to lower the price. Instead of buying a backplate and harness, look at Zeagle's 911, at least look towards double badders instead of singles. Expensive? You bet! but than you would have the top of the line with possiblities of expanding into something more - maybe even the TecRec program or something equal with another dive training assoication. If you are already thinking safety-which you are, than make a step into the right direction and get more training to handle risk situations, let someone with experience with deep divers look you over and test you, not everyone is deep diver material. As I have said before I'm one of the fortunate ones that for some reason is addicted to depths, in just two days I'll be flying to Utila, Honduras again to visit with my friends there and also take a trimix course from IANTD. I'm excited over the whole experience of training for something I really wanted to do for a long time. Maybe it won't work out, maybe I'll throw in the towel, if it comes to that make no mistake - I'll throw the towel and be grateful for the chance to see if I was really destined to dive deep. Do yourself a favor, first get the training than get the gear, and then enjoy yourself...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #153) on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 9:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jim - Thanx.

SBob... "weenie comments".. haven't we met before, in a bar, with "da boyz" having a few beers in memory of a missing buddy....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By spongebob (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1149) on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 3:41 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

i knew this was a mistake;)

i was looking to constuct a better BCD, one that could hold a redundant tank - do you need training for that...i think not...some of the "talkers" here really don't listen very well;)

and, C no, i don't believe so...i saw where you were from - are you one of kelly's girlfriends?

out of here...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #154) on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 8:25 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

LOL...I would like to think so...

ps...don't let the door hit ya in the .... opps, nevermind :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #903) on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 9:26 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Bob, you knew it was a mistake and you went ahead anyway. You don't need no stinking training. Maybe you need to listen to yourself talk, you sound like an accident report in progress.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KENNEDY (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #180) on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 9:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe before questioning training you should strap on a pair of double steel 80's and jump in and see what happens... MOST EXPERIENCED divers who try double steels for the first time land on their backs on the bottom, looking like upside turtles...Just trying to help you spongebob.

 


Visit: The Bonaire WebCams - Current Bonaire images and weather!
The Bonaire Insider - the latest tourism news about Bonaire
The Bonaire Information Site, InfoBonaire
Search Bonaire - Search top Bonaire Web sites


Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration