The other thread was getting pretty long (somebody posted a bunch of pictures). Sony has introduced the replacement for the DSC P1, it's the DSC P5. Same camera (3.3 megapixels, 3x optical zoom), thinner and lighter, manual focus option and some other minor changes. Review can be seen at dpreview review. I don't know yet about an UW housing but I am looking. This should be good news; the new camera's list price is lower and some good new features and if I decide on the P1 (which has a good UW housing) they will get alot cheaper very quickly.

Cecil,

The UW housing is mentioned at the bottom of that review.

All I can say is, we still like ours

Like duh, I guess that answers that question.

So now your decision is even more difficult!
A couple of notes - the battery life seems shorter than the P1 (~60 vs ~80+ mins). OK if you can open the case to put in a spare or charge the battery. However, the flash is more powerful - which may be good, or may mean that it is now strong enough to give backscatter . The minimum flash range has increased, which may have an impact on macro pictures.
Finally, the new model may mean you'll be able to pick up the P1 at a bargain price!

Dan.

So Cecil, as Christmas is drawing near, have you made your decision on which of the cameras you are going to buy? Are you tempted at all by the Canon PowerShot S40 or S30? They also have inexpensive housings available. The camera and housing run about the same price as the Sonys and they are compatible with the IBM 1GB Microdrive. No storage problems there, which is nice on a vacation. Their battery life is also better than both of the Sonys that you were considering. I haven't seen many uw samples from the PowerShots but the few that I have the colors look slightly better than the Sonys.....

Sacrilege, you say. I should not say this but I was looking for some Christmas labels the other night and accidently found a brand new Sony DSC-P5 in the box (Thank God Sue does not read these boards). That's makes the decision easy. I was not really wavering anyway after seeing Darlene's pictures recently. I still like the small size, macro capability and convience. The "How do you get your pictures off the camera doing vacation?" problem still exists and needs to be solved. Probably a laptop is the best solution. A used one with a slower processor could be brought cheaply. Maybe I'll get my company to buy me one.

Ok, sorry for the sacrilege. I can't wait to see your results with the P5! The 1GB Microdrive just looks so tempting. Thanks to Kay Powers, I now have a 128mb memory stick. What a difference it makes. For some strange reason the battery seems to last longer using the 128mb. I used to get 47 highest quality images on the 64mb stick and the battery would usually run down at the same time the memory stick filled up. Now I can store 94-95 images on the 128mb and the battery still has plenty of juice left to play and review the images when I am done. Weird!

Now you have me wondering, my plan was two 64megs maybe one 128 would be better. I'll have to ask that question to other P5 owners. I wouldn't have any results till the April Keys trip, although I will try to get a pool session in to get used to the camera. Don't want to be wasting valuable vacation time learning a new camera.

Cecil, I would definitely get a 128MB memory stick instead of two 64's.

I have found what to me seems the best solution for storing images while on vacation. It's called the digital wallet by Minds @ Work. There are several different versions, but they are all essentially a portable hard drive. They are about the size of a walkman, have there own operating system, and can accept compact flash, smartmedia, memory sticks, etc. They come in different sizes: a 3gb, 10gb, and 20gb. The 10gb and 20gb are pretty pricey, but the 3gb can be found online for $159.00. You pull the card out of your camera, and stick it into the digital wallet PCMCIA slot (like on a notebook) with an adapter. It comes with an adapter for compact flash. Smartmedia adapters run about $45.00. To me this is a no brainer. You can buy a 128mb smartmedia or compact flash for about $70.00, or get 3000mb with the digital wallet for $159.00 to $200.00 (depending on the adapter you need). I will be ordering one in the next few days. I'll keep you posted on how it works.

By the way, I have an Olympus 2040 ($358.00 online)with an Olympus PT-010 housing ($250.00). I have had the camera about a year. I love it. Would highly recommend it. I don't think you can beat this combo for price and quality. For those wanting a 3 megapixel, you can use the same housing with the Olympus 3040 which goes for $528.00 online. Still a pretty cheap package. I have yet to use the housing, but will be taking it along to Bonaire in February. It's pretty heavy duty, and I do not think paying the premium for the Ikelite is worth it. Alas, I would not buy a Sony camera because of the memory sticks. Proprietary technology always sucks. Check out the Olympus 2040, 3040, or 4040. These are quality cameras that have been highly rated by the experts. And I love my 2040.

The Olympus 4040 (4.1 megapixel) can be had now for $615.00 online. I recently bought one for slightly more and have been impressed with the results above water. I am looking forward to giving it a go with the PT-010 housing when we next visit Bonaire 1/31-2/10 2002. I agree with Greg about proprietory media but I don't think the digital wallet is absolutely necessary. A couple 128mb smart cards don't cost all that much, don't add any appreciable weight, take up virtually no room, and will hold as many photos as I would want to take on a dive vacation.

You are right about the quality of the Olympus cameras, Greg. The majority of underwater digital photographers seem to be using the Olympus cameras with good results.

The digital wallet is by no means a necessity, but for those who like to get picture crazy, this thing lets you take as many pictures as humanly possible without worrying about having enough memory cards. And you can buy it for a little more than the price of 2 128mb memory cards. As for space, it is certainly bigger than a couple of memory cards, but at the size of a walkman, not big enough to be a hassle. I think if you buy one 128mb card and a digital wallet, you can go snap pictures all day with the 128mb card, go back to the room and download them to the wallet in the evening, and start with a fresh media card the next day.

Ellen,

Using the highest compressed resolution (not the uncompressed tiff), how many pictures can you get on a 128mb card with the 4040? I can get ~130 with my 2040.

Let me clarify my question:

I should have said "Using the highest quality compressed mode (or resolution)..."

I should also note that the digital wallet is not just for saving pictures from your camera. It has a USB port which allows you to download files from a PC. You can then take it with you and transfer these files to another PC. So it is essentially a portable harddrive. It's not just a one trick pony.

I don't know Greg, I'm still not convinced. You say a digital wallet runs about $200, I'm pretty sure I could get a used laptop for not much more and get alot more use out of it. As far as transfering data is concerned, that's what LANs and e-mail are for.

As far as to how many pictures alot depends on the detail in the photos, I've heard most of the files are between 1.3 and 2 megs.

Greg, if you missed the other thread, we been discussing the Sony DSC-P1 and P5, price wise, the camera's around $550, the U/W case $160 to $200. It's a very small, very light, 3.3 mega pixel and has a 3x optical zoom. The camera in the underwater case is smaller than most 35mm cameras out of the water. In case you can't tell I'm way psyched to be getting one.

I did look at the Olympus cameras and it was tough decision. I think it was the size and the idea I could slip this puppy into a BC pocket (clipped of course) and quickly pull it out for a picture.

Greg,
I'm not sure that you wanted to direct the question about the 4040 to Ellen. I have very limited experience with mine so far but your question prompted me to try out the highest quality compressed mode and the camera reports 46 shots at SHQ 2272 x 1704 with an empty 128mb smart card. At HQ, same resolution, there are 130 shots available. As far as I can tell the difference between the SHQ and HQ is the JPEG compression factor, 2.8 vs 8.
Just an aside, I think the original intent of this thread was to discuss the merits of digital vs conventional photography. After having collected four rolls of film from processing, I found that maybe one in ten shots were worth keeping and the rest were junk. With a digital system I would have had instant feedback and could have saved only the best shots to be printed. It's no wonder to me that the Nikonos is going the way of the Mastadon. - Eric

Eric-

Thanks for responding, the question was directed at you. 46 shots is not a whole lot. I always use the highest quality compressed mode when I take photos (if not, why not buy a camera with less megapixel ccd). Even two 128mb cards will only give you about 100 shots. On a week long vacation, I can easily take more photos than that.

As for digital vs film, I have given up on film. First, I am an idiot when it comes to taking pictures. I never made it past a point and shoot 35mm. It takes really nice photos, but there are inevitably some wasted shots on every roll. Not with digital. Delete it and take another. I also am famous for not getting my pictures devloped for six months after I take them. Then they get stuck in some shoe box at the back of the closet. Seemed like a waste of time to even take them, so I rarely did. Since I got my digital, I take pictures much more often, actually capture all the shots I want, and share them with family and friends via email or burned to cd, etc.

Cecil-

You probably can find a used laptop for a couple hundred bucks, but it is alot more of a hassle to lug around than the digital wallet. As for transferring data, if you are on a LAN you don't have a problem. But try moving 500mb by email. Not fun. This is where this product would be very useful.

As for the Sony, you can get an Olympus 3040 for $528 and a PT-010 housing for $249. About the same price. Granted, I have not used the Sony, but I know the Olympus is a great camera. And once again, I would not buy a Sony for the fact that it uses their proprietary memory sticks. Just doesn't make sense that to me. The rest of the world has gone another route. Sony makes you buy their memory. As for size, the Olympus is not very big, and the housing not much bigger. It won't fit in a BC pocket, but I certainly intend to clip it to my BC without it getting in the way.

For all you digital camera owners:

I don't print very many pictures that I take. But when I have one I really want printed, I use Ofoto.com for printing. They are owned by Kodak. You upload your pictures to them, then they print them and mail them to you. They use the same Kodak paper that they use if you take a roll of film to Wal-mart. The quality of the prints is remarkable. You can choose various sizes, and even have them frame them for you. When you register with them you get 15 free 4x6 photos (you pay about $2.00 shipping). Give it a try and see. Prices are as follows:

4x6 $.49
5x7 $.99
8x10 $3.99
16x20 $14.99
20x30 $19.99

Probably not cheap enough to print evry one of your photos, but if you are like me and just want a few printed, the quality is superb. Try the 15 for free and you'll see what I mean.


PS: No, I do not work for Ofoto or Kodak (I'm a bean counter for an oil and gas drilling products company, I just like the product).

Greg good point about the proprietary memory recently Sony has allowed other manufacturers to start making memory for it's cameras so the prices have dropped. The Olympus would probably fit in my BC pocket, I've got big pockets. Good info about the on-line printing.

As far as digital vs. 35 mm there is quite alot of discussion in the first half of this thread. You can see my extensive collection of 35mm Banded Shrimp pictures.