This just in, looks like AA will begin charging $15 for the first bag, adn $25 for each additional bag after June 15, 2008.

American to charge for each checked bag

Seems that travel is getting more and more difficult...

Cynde, are you looking at AA again rather than Delta? That Delta flight was sweeeeet, if it hasn't priced itself out of our league...

This bites!

According to AA's website the following will not be charged a service fee to check a bag "Customers traveling on an international itinerary to destinations beyond the U.S., the U.S. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, or Canada."

And if your tickets have already been purchased. Cest la vie....what are you gonna do???

CB, no way, Delta is looking pretty good!

Marcus, it looks like they have not updated their website as it says that the first bag is still free, which according to the article above, after June will not be free. Will be interesting to see if they charge for International travel.

I had thought that international bags would be free as well ... however when we were in Mexico last week, we noticed that USAirways had notices up for $25 to check a second bag ... I just reviewed the website and the only international destinations on that airline that are exempt include Europe and Asia ...

It might be worth a phone call to each airline to confirm the international bag question since the policies seem to be changing and all over the place ...

Marcus you are correct. The charge is not applied to persons on international flights.

The website says the first bag is free only to those who buy a ticket or fly before 15 June which implies there will be a charge after 15 June. This indicates to me the web site is current and the other exception as I stated above still holds true. My understanding from talking to American today is that the bag charges don't apply to international travelers. You know how that goes though.

I just had a look at the continental site since we are flying continental this fall.

If you purchased a ticket for travel to mexico or the caribbean or central and south america on or after 5/8/2008 and are flying economy class, you have to pay $25 for the second bag ... I'll try to post the link below ...

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/check.aspx

Sorry Chris, apparently you and I were posting at the same time.

RosAnne - looks like that's OK - this is if you purchase your tickets AFTER June 15th.

More important than the 15 to 25 $ surcharge on bags, I'd be concerned that these airlines will be around when we need them or that they will still be flying to where we want to go!

This is a matter of life or death for all major airlines. When a barrel of oil is costing 132 $ it won't be long before the airlines cease doing business!

Bill is right, I am wondering if we will have a flight in Aug. By then no telling what the oil prices will be.

Ok, so let them be straight up call it what it is? Just raise fares or add a fuel surcharge rather than to play stop gap by charging for luggage. Oil prices are going to fluctuate so it won't be long before that isn't enough and they have to look elsewhere for ways to pay. Oops!!! I just provided two options.

If they want to control luggage weight they could start by reducing carry on allowances to ONE bag of any sort per person. Bet that would make a difference.

As a diver who travels I will pay whatever it takes to have my gear go with me. This is the first year I was planning on checking two bags for an extended holiday. Bad timing.

Rant off......



(Message edited by sporter on May 23, 2008)

Very soon, we will be charged if we want the plane to be commanded by two pilots rather than a cost savings of one. We will not be charged if we can squeeze into an unmanned drone; sorry no luggage allowed on those flights.

In addition we will be charged $1/lbs for our body weight more than 200lbs. A great way to combat obesity and save money at the same time.

Do we have to tip pilots?
Is it true that it now cost $0.25 to use the rest room? Toilet paper is extra.

To Susan's point, one of my pet peeves is the "one carryon - size is always specified" and one handbag/purse/laptop. I always abide by this, and after some of the new TSA changes, saw the number of carryon folks took decreased dramatically. Now however, the last two times I've traveled this spring, boy, people push more than the limit. They have TWO carrons and a laptop or purse, or the dang carryon is huge and then they get angry they can't stuff it in the overhead bin.

I wish the airlines would enforce this, but they don't. I guess it's easier to look the other way cause it would be a pain to have check all the offenders extra crap last minute.

Jerry, we have to pay for food now, I bet the tp and kleenex are next. On Jet Blue in Feb, they had a "new thing" they were experimenting with...five bucks for a pillow!

rant off!

Not only that, if one of the stewardesses is uncomfortable with her seat, the pilot may seat you in the bathroom for the flight.

Folks, you just can't make this stuff up. On Jet Blue: http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37410/117/

Mare

I should point out that none of the major airlines will charge a fee for the first bag (American only doing that so far) or the second bag if you are an elite member of their frequent flyer program. Elite means typically that you've flown or accrued 25000 miles/points in the FF program in the prior or present calendar year.

That doesn't help those of you who are infrequent flyers, but it is an argument for trying to fly with one airline instead of multiples.

American's bag fee is also waived for all passengers in the same record as an elite flyer, so if there are four of you booked together, and one of you is at least Gold AAdvantage member, then you all get a free first and second bags (see http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/utility/baggageExceptions.jsp).

Not sure about the other airlines, although we'll put it to the test next month with Continental - Linda and I each have Gold Elite status with CO.

While I think it probably would be less hassle to just increase the fares, as a frequent flyer myself, it is nice to see some additional benefits offered to frequent flyers over non-frequent flyers.

Jake

Hi Jake! I believe for non-frequent flyers who bought their tickets before such a such date do not have to pay that charge either, that being me! Got my next three trips all paid for a long time ago, so I shouldn't have to pay that charge till sometime next summer! Right? Even though we fly a lot, it is on a lot of different airlines and not enough to get the elite or Gold status depending on which one you are flying.

Jake: When you say Gold AAdvantage member, are you referring to the AAdvantage Gold Level Credit Card?

Debbie,

The news fees, as I read it, apply to tickets purchased after the specified dates for travel on the affected dates. If you paid for your tickets before the cut-off date, bring proof of that with you when you check in, along with a print-out of the page at the link I gave above (for AA). I had to do that once when the restriction of luggage to 50 lbs from 70 lbs came about.

Marcus - no, I'm referring to the card AA sends its frequent fliers for flying 25,000 miles or more with them in a given calendar year. See http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/AAdvantage/programDetails/eliteStatus/main.jsp

Jake

Dont everyone get all hysterical, if you are flying international, you DO NOT have baggage charges......PERIOD(for now)

Actually, some of the airlines ARE starting to charge for some international destinations. I recently came back from Mexico and USAirways was charging for a second checked bag. I also checked Continental since we have October Bonaire tickets and discovered that for Mexico and Caribbean flights, Continental just started charging (tickets purchased after 5/8 for travel after 5/19) for the second checked bag.

Check with your individual airline to be sure.

And, as Jake said, if you are an elite member of a frequent flyer program or you are flying first class, the charges typically will not apply.

I'll fly coach and pay the extra $15.

Ray-Pam
I've always used my frequent flyer miles to upgrade to first class.
We should be more concerned with these high fuel costs because it will eventually lead to less competition. With less competition, service and selection goes down, leaving places like Bonaire off the list.
When I talk about service and selection it will eliminate jobs, lodging choice,and restaurant choice on the island because of the reduced # of visitors--and I want all my choices,even though I don't use some to be available while on Bonaire.

FWIW(from the airline side of things)

The industry is in turmoil now and there is no end in sight. Extra baggage costs fuel, so it's logical that those carrying more will soon be charged more. Will my plane be waiting for me in Sept to take me to Bon? That is not a garrantee at this point.

If I can add a European perspective, charging for checked bags has been common with many "budget" and charter airlines in Europe for some time. I've just booked a flight from England to the Dominican Republic, and there was an extra charge of around $37 for one 20kg bag! And they charge extra for inflight meals too!

Smack, I hear ya on all the airlines being in turmoil, I posted about this elsewhere on BT, but have been keeping up on this. I have three already bought tickets on various airlines through March of 09 and hope that they can make it through this gas crisis which is effecting us all. The jelly roll effect of it goes to us, but hits airlines immediately as they spend billions, yes, billions of dollars to fuel their planes. We all have seen the cost of food go up already due to increased gas prices, I just filled up my Toyota Camry SE, $60! I am so glad I don't have a big truck right now.

The airlines are in a no win situation right now, increase fares? That can put them out of the market of getting passengers, so the luggage charge only makes sense. The are struggling big time and if that keeps them in business till the barrel of oil comes down, so be it. I would hate to see any of them fold due to gas prices.

Here's what I believe to be a real issue. Be prepared - I doubt you will ever see the charge for baggage go away, regardless of fuel prices.

By adding a fee that is separate from the ticket price, i.e. a baggage fee, they remove that fee from any discounts.

The claim is that the baggage fee is in response to the higher price of oil, but I doubt the baggage fee will go away if and when the price of oil goes down.

Now, the airlines can apply a discount or lower the ticket based on "fuel" costs, but the baggage fee will still be present. A nice little addition to their bottom line.

It's similar to "shop fees" at a vehicle repair shop. At my business (a franchised auto care center), we charge a shop fee on every ticket, the same as most car dealership repair facilities. The shop fee is never discounted or removed, regardless of any promotion or coupon. I can raise my shop fee by a small percent and not touch my pricing. Thus, I can stay "competitive" with my competitors by leaving my base price the way it is and add bottom dollars to my profit with small increases in the shop fees.

I think the same thing is being done by the airlines with the baggage fee structure. And I do believe folks are right in assuming their will be additional fees added later. Companies pay entire departments to "think outside the box" and come up with these little goodies.....

Not sure my ramblings made any sense, but that's not uncommon - just ask the folks that work for me.....

One other thing....

I don't buy the airlines argument that the luggage is causing more fuel consumption. On a modern jet airliner, the weight of the total luggage is a small percentage of the total weight of the aircraft.

Example: If an airliner carries 200 people and they all check 2 bags at 50 pounds each, the total weight of the luggage is 20,000 pounds or 10 tons.

The takeoff weight of a fully loaded B737-800 is close to 90 tons. So if the airliner is completely loaded with luggage, the weight of the luggage is only about 10% of the total weight of the aircraft.

The weight of the passengers and carry-on luggage is surely more than the weight of the checked bags. So watch out, we may indeed start being weighed at the airport and charged a fee for being over the standard 175-pound FAA prototype person.......

I am a casual follower of the airline industry! a long time ago when your airplane was 2/3 full you made lots of money, now with the increase in labor, new airplane costs, fuel, not to mention landing fees, your lucky to break even.

I want all the airlines to stay in business, because ultimately when they don't it means higher ticket prices with less convenience.

Dave, every ounce of weight adds to the fuel consumption; basic physics, no free lunch etc. It is a small difference. But when you look at the amount of fuel an airline burns in a year, any little bit saved ends up being a lot of money:

American Airlines burned 2.8 billion gallons in 2007. After the recent weight cuts, the carrier estimates it will conserve about 111 million gallons this year.

...thats a lot of simoleons!

More details in this Wired article, which includes this tidbit:

---

quote:

former CEO Bob Crandall once bragged that he saved the airline $40,000 by removing olives from first class dinner salads.

---

Weight cuts!! How about route & flight cuts ! That is what will save them money. Less flights, less employees, less expenses, more money to line the CEO's pockets.

Roger,

I agree that weight causes more fuel consumption, which causes increased costs, which gets passed to the customer. I pass increased costs to the customers of my business on a daily basis. I also teach student pilots how to calculate fuel burn and peak aircraft performance based on aircraft weight.

My point is not that the fuel prices are costing the airlines money. It is, just as it is with every business. My suppliers are all adding fuel charges to their delivery charges. They have promised me that when fuel prices decrease, the surcharge will go away.

My point is that the "luggage fee" really has nothing to do with the cost of fuel. It is a sneaky way for the airlines to tag an extra fee on your cost which will probably never be removed.

If they were serious about adding to the customer cost because of fuel prices, they would just add a to the ticket price. The fuel is a cost of doing business and the ticket price should reflect that cost.

You may see ticket prices come down in the future based on competition or fuel price lowering, but I highly doubt you will ever see the baggage fees removed. It is a "user tax" that I claim will be in place for a long time - regardless of fuel prices.

Raise my ticket price to cover your cost - no problem. That's business and a free economy.

The luggage fees are blantant profit dollars added to the price of your ticket. And that's fine. I'm all for profit - it is not a four letter word.

I just wish they would tell it like it really is. That's all.

Dave.

P.S. BTW Roger, I really like your videos.....

Mr Goodwin, Dave...

Your knowledge of the airline industry is amazing! I had no clue.

Mr Anderson, John...

If that was intended as a slam, then touche'. You probably don't have a clue and you would be amazed.

If it wasn't intended as a slam, then I am at a loss as to the point you were trying to make.

Dave,

It was a slam. After 20 years of service, you can bet I have a clue and I question your knowledge of the industry by reading your posts. Whether I make it to 21 is up in the air(no pun intended).

I may get in trouble here, so send out the guards if need be. I'm getting old enough not to care.

Things dramatically changed since the Deregulation act of 1978 in the US. Rate, route and entry was governed by the no-longer-alive
Civil Aeronautics Board. This was to lower costs. Your roundtrip from NY to LA may be $350 today, in 1978 may be $450 which may be over $1200 in todays dollars.

This was to lower prices and increase competition. Bad thing is no one wants to pay $1200 for a ticket for domestic travel and the industry is not that good in terms of customer service.

As airlines buy up others, it reduces capacity and competition so here it goes, the pricing will go up too.

Well I am scheduled for my trip to BON on Monday....

See you all there.

John,

Did I EVER claim to be an airline industry expert?

In all fairness, you don't know me or what I happen to know. For your information, I have given flight instruction to several current airline captains. In addition, my brother works for a major airline based in Chicago.

I never slammed anyone on this thread and feel I said nothing to be slammed by you.

All I said is that the luggage fees are a cheap shot to the consumer. They are a form of usage tax. Raise the prices because of fuel. But don't hide it with fees that will remain permanent.

I could care less about your 20 years in the industry. That doesn't give you the right to slam me for expressing my opinion on the luggage fees.

As a matter of fact, I haven't seen you contradict anything that I have written. Throw some facts out to support your position. Use that "20" years of service you supposedly have to make your point, rather than lowering yourself to the gutter. Can't do it? That's what I thought.....

Your responses to my posts are typical of people who can't carry on a civilized discussion. They have to resort to name calling and slams.

I'm all for open debate and discussion, but keep the slams to yourself.

Leave me alone, "Smack". You aren't worth the time and you're too weak an advisory.

I'll fly coach and pay the extra $15. (insert smiley face)

Rogar
Your not alone when you talk about "peak oil", heard a conversation with T Boone Pickens [the billionaire] who believe in peak oil, he thinks we passed P O last year.
The next statement by Mr Pickens simply explains the oil crisis---"we use 87 million barrels of oil a day, we produce 85 million barrels a day"--that's it in a nut shell.
Someone mentioned airline profits, the only U S airline to be profitable is Southwest. All others aren't--correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe in the free market, when and IF we get energy costs under control, competition will do away with any baggage fees?-if any of the airlines are still around??
Just a thought, I don't think the government will allow too many airlines to go under, as one of the tenants of airline business is,"in time of need you must transport the arm forces"--but right now I'm not going to complain about a lousy 15$!

Bill,

I believe you are right about SW. But they run under a completely different business model than the other airlines.

Please keep in mind in regards to the oil crisis, we've had the gold crisis of the 70's the Yen crisis of the 80's--were also right now in a moderating housing crisis,--there is also another crisis I'm not remembering,[it's hell getting old-lol] -- so from this perspective we should see some moderation of oil prices.

Dave,

I'll take that one on the chin, and I did deserve it. I was not having a good day. Can't believe I didn't get slapped for it by the guards. It IS all about fuel cost and the airlines attempt to hedge the loss. Hard to recharge tickets sold months earlier to make up the difference. View it as you will. I owe you an apology. To get a sense of what my industry is facing, I'll leave you this:


May 21, 2008

DNU


AA cutting jobs, slashingroutes and retiring planes

American Airlines (AA) announced
early Wednesday that it will cut capacity
on domestic flights, eliminate jobs and will
begin charging a $15 fee for a first checked
bag, in response to the high price of jet
fuel, the Associated Press reported.

According to the Ft.Worth Star
Telegram, AA “has also increased fees for a
broad slate of services, ranging from travelers flying with pets to oversized baggage
fees.The increases range from $5 to $50
per service.”

Terry Trippler, airline analyst and
founder of Trippler Travel, told
MarketWatch this is a necessary move for
AA, and he expects other carriers to follow suit.

“I know a lot of people say they're
nickel-and-diming us,”Trippler said.“No,
they're not.This is survival for the airlines.”

The new fee will go into effect June
15, and AA said it will cut domestic flight
capacity by at least 11 percent in the
fourth quarter, the story said.

The smaller flight schedule will lead to
an undisclosed amount of job cuts at both
AA and its subsidiary,American Eagle. AA
also said that it will park at least 75 planes,
mainline and regional, the AP reported.

Interviewed by the Dallas Morning
News,AA CEO Gerard Arpey said layoff
numbers could be significant.

Asked whether the layoffs would be
in the thousands,Arpey said,“I would think
so,” the story said.

The story also said Arpey “hesitated
to give precise numbers to the scope of
the cutbacks and how it would affect
employees, cities and routes until the airline firms up its plans.”

Southwest is making a profit because the oil price has not hit them directly yet.

They purchased oil futures out for about five years (some time ago) and still pay 1/2 price or less for their fuel supplies.

That's one executive that actually earned the big bucks!

David
Have you read in the newspaper where 6 months ago Southwest slowed there airplanes down, making all the routes about 10 minutes longer--they saved 42 million dollars in fuel cost--all the other airlines know about it, but still haven't done it--I guess because of their bureaucracy--this is why S W makes money, the rest of the airlines just talk about not loosing money.

Bill:

You are correct, SW is the only that has had long term profitability. They hedged fuel far out, someone mentioned that earlier in this post.

I am told and this is unconfirmed that they have not hedged so the cost will catch up.....

The crisis that I couldn't remember was the oil embargo of the late 70's and it too moderated.

Smack,

I appreciate that.... no hard feelings.

We'll just have to agree that we disagree on the political reasons for the luggage fees. The future will tell the truth.

The airlines are in great danger because of fuel costs. But so are trucking firms, delivery services (FedEx, UPS, etc), and many other businesses. Especially small owner-operator businesses with fewer than 10 employees - most of them are surviving on a shoe string budget and can't afford to absorb the increased fuel costs. Its a very real and delicate problem.....

In all honesty, I hope you make it well beyond year 21.

Dave,

So do I. If I make it to 25 you can buy me a gold watch

I love it when you guys play nicely, hugs to Smack and Dave instead of slaps.

John,

I'd rather just buy you a case of Brights....

And Julia, it depends on who's giving the hugs....

Dave,

Thats the best offer I've had in a while, and I hate to drink alone. Don't forget to bring the lime! April 2013 is closer than we think.

Ok, BoatChick sort of brought this up, and I was thinking.... you know that size roller bag that everyone has? It's the largest roller bag that will still fit in the overhead bin? Yeah, I have one too, but I always check it because 1) it's a total bin hog, and 2) when packed really full, it's very heavy. Many people bring them on board and hog all the bin space (because they always have 2 bags dontcha know), BUT, often these bags are grabbed in the jetway because the airline workers know all that luggage isn't going to fit. They "gate check" or "valet" the bags. How will these people now pay the $15? Or will they not? Or will it encourage a bitter traveler, like myself, to walk down the jetway with my obnoxious bag, KNOWING it will be taken and gate checked, and I can weasel out of the $15 charge? I'm just musing out loud here.....

Kate, interesting...I've very rarely seen folks bin hog bags taken at the gate...that's my complaint, that they should. And your right, wouldn't they have to charge them $25? Especially if it's their second bag? how will they know if it's their first or second? I guess all the more reason to let the bin hogs hot the bins and not make them check them.

Can you tell it's my pet peeve? lol...

It's my pet peeve too, and I don't know how they will deal with it, but I sense it will be a problem.

I've only flown commercially a few times and already have a pet peeve ... people who hog up the overhead bins with tiny bags that could easily store under the seat (thus making room for the larger bags to fit overhead).

Another thing with overhead bins, don't store your full water bottle up there. Someone did on a flight I was on and it started to leak on the people sitting underneath who the bags didn't belong to. We were hitting turbulence and nobody was allowed to get up to make it stop.

Regarding the overhead baggage issue, it looks like AA is aware this will become a problem. I just got the following e-mail from them - read the last part carefully (I made it bold):

As you are probably aware, we recently announced a change to our checked baggage policy for travel on domestic economy class tickets. I want to take this opportunity to emphasize that these additional baggage fees do not apply to you. As a benefit to our valued AAdvantage Platinum members, you will still be able to check two bags free of charge (within current size and weight limits). In addition, customers flying on the same reservation with you are also exempt from the new checked baggage
fees.

For a recap of our updated policy, and to view a list of frequently asked questions, visit the link below:

http://link.aa.com/r/UWL34C/9ZBC/XBDBK5/18H/HIJS/1G/t

Also, as an AAdvantage Platinum member, you will continue to be among the first customers to be boarded. This should provide ample time to locate available space for your carry-on luggage, settle in and attend to business well before takeoff.

And Linda just got a similar message, but for AAdvantage Gold members. The only different in the text of the e-mail is as follows:

Also, as an AAdvantage Gold member, you will continue to board in Group 1 when traveling in Economy Class. This should provide ample time to locate available space for your carry-on luggage, settle in and attend to business well before takeoff.

Michael and I were talking about this last night. Wondering, if folks will now try to carry MORE on the plane to avoid having to pay the one bag fee, or the second bag fee.

UGH.

Who do you suppose will be first to start charging a dollar or two per pound of carry-on weight?

That would require a lot of infrastructure, Chet, plus lots of disputes about scale accuracy.

They are more likely to do what ArkeFly in Curacao does, namely give you special non-removable tags (like club wrist bands) to put on verified (weighed and sized) carry-ons, and any carry on you try to bring on board that doesn't have a properly intact tag will get bounced (I assume to the luggage hold, maybe for a fee?).

Keep in mind that most U.S. flights now have CC machines to allow you to charge the payment for your on-board paid snacks and drinks, so running a credit card through for gate checked luggage fees isn't that far fetched, and it'll probably be a surcharge too to handle gate checking.

Jake