I received the following link from AA. It details the new airport security rules with a further link to an FAA FAQ. At the bottom of the AA link, is a 'no knives or cutting devices allowed' line. Apparently what has triggered the confiscations at Flamingo. It would be very diver-friendly of Bonaire if this could be promulgated to all those coming (as part of a reservations acknowledgement message?) and those who have arrived so that each can make arrangements to send/not carry their own things instead of being at the tender mercies of the excellent Bonaire Customs for forwarding. Also mentioning quite what Flamingo Customs is taking: the 'tools' item has surprized several, from the posts here. This would be a good task for CURO to lead and the dive ops and accommodations to implement.

http://www.aa.com/new_airport_restrictions.html

Having just been re-scheduled yet again for our ALM leg of our trip on Sat, I also found similar info on the ALM site

http://www.airalm.com/2000p_notice.html

which discusses the requirement that no metal or hard plastic object which may be used as a weapon may be allowed on board.

Looks like our 4 hour layover in Curacao just turned into a eight hour layover. Guess we'll get some beach time in after all!

Sandy
(One and a half) but who's counting!

Darn Glen you are very good at trying to delegate. "Diver friendly"....I do not think you will find an island more diver friendly than Bonaire. They (customs) were reacting to VERY vague directives intended to restart service to the US, ALM did NOT need the loss of revenue. As you are aware, Dash-8's have open cargo areas accessible while in the air, and as you can watch what the flight crew is doing the whole time, I would say their precautions where justified. Checked baggage is a few short steps from being carried on, as to the TV I think Jason already covered the shipment of cargo.

CURO has plenty to do in just trying getting evertbody to agree to agree. They are not a coffee club and proceed so as to ensure the cooperation of everybody. From what I have seen returning divers have, by posting on the wide number of rec.scuba sites and bulletin boards, spread the word. Until (if ??) this crisis is passed I will leave my sharp pointies on Bonaire and smile and thank the customs agents looking out for my well-being.

My, my. I have suggested twice to my friends in the Bonaire dive ops community that divers coming to Bonaire be better informed of new situations by the dive community actually on Bonaire and look what I get. Never did complain about the new security measures; I understand and even explained why they are present. Oh, well. 'They also serve who only stand and wait' but action gets more done.

Glen,
This sitiuation is not confined to bonaire so the issue is not as much divers coming to bonaire is divers going through little airports that do not have the cappability to xray baggage. The general dive community IS dealing with.. With in 24 hours of the distribution of the letter referred to earlier, Scuba Schools International (SSI).. distributed the letter, verbatim, to all of its north american dealers. Stores such as the one I am associated with in the US, has posed information on their web pages (for our example visit our web site at www.seaventures-va.com). I think that you will find most travel agents have been talking with their clients.. I know we have had several discussions with Caradonna on our upcoming store trip. So please rest assured that the word is getting out concerning all dive travel
.. I imagine the CURO members have enough things on their plates right now.. like how to deal with the impact on their business..

I noticed you posted your suggestions twice, and you are welcome to "stand and wait". I however feel more can be accompished by us the travelers advising fellow travelers of what to expect so the good folks of CURO can address more pressing matters.

Jason, I am glad that SSI, et al, are getting the word out in the States. I suggested the same on Bonaire, eh?

Kelly, I wasn't standing and waiting, I was acting!

Oh, well.

Glen, I think that all the folks on Bonaire know.. (heck it is a small island.. isn't much which isn't known down there) for purposes of SSI organization,, bonaire falls into their definition of North America..so I know all the dealers down there got the emai and it is a small island.. The europeans traveling to Bonaire are receiving similar information.. There was an earlier posting on the web page from the current president of CURO, so I am not quite sure what else you see as being needed..

Jason,

It is excellent if the dealers and dive ops and even the residents of Bonaire living in kunukus know but not very helpful to travelling divers. My suggestion was directed to the dive ops telling travelling divers directly since the divers are the affected parties.

Glen,
If the travelers of any nature who are planning to go somewhere, anywhere in the near future aren't aware of the new regulations/restrictions involving travel, or aren;t unaware that there have been changes in travel that they might want to look into and familarize themselves, then maybe, just maybe they shouldn't be traveling..afterall who is going to tell them that their gate was changed or their connecting flight was changed.. .By no means do I even intend to speak for any one execpt my immediate diving community,(and I only speak for them because I have the keys to the gear room so they have to listen to me). We have 1 6 or 7 people traveling in the next week and another 20 in the next six weeks but you know what, they have figured it out alllllll on their lonesome..something about watching TV, reading the paper or hearing the radio. and you know what.. I did not have to talk to each of them directly.... and obviousily by general standards these people are the sharpest tack around as they actually sometimes take courses from me.

To each, his own way.

Jason,

Divers may not be aware that what's okay going down (sea snips in checked baggage, for example) will result in confiscation on Bonaire on the return. Granted they will theoretically be returned by mail, but...

Glen - I agree with you point and did forward your message to CURO. What they will do about it is beyond my ability to guess, however.

Jake

Jack Chalk is working it and will let the dive ops (and us?) know the results.

Jake/Glen.. I will repeat my observation... this is not just a Bonaire problem and is related to travel.... AS I mentioned earlier , virtually every travel agent has been in contact with their clients addressing new concerns.. At work we got guidelines of reporting times and requirements on carry-on abd packed luggage.. At the Dive Center we have been working with Caradonna who has been advising us on such "stuff" and the looming problem of the potential loss of DCA. If Jack has the time to take this own.. more power to him or the members of CURO..I know with our shop that we have only been ablte to do this through our travel agents and volunteer staff (I ran a staff twice the size of Habitat's with 1/10 the customer base) If I would expect anyone to deal with this it would be the travel agents.. ahh I know there are a bunch of people who use on line booking.. (which also will be impacted by this)... service costs money..and I certainly have never begrudged the relatively small dollars I have spent on travel agents. You mention once upon the time the concern over cut rate web service providers.. remember that sevice cost money. In this time of increases security I personally would not travel anywhere with a dive knife or sea snips in any of my baggage.

FYI. This BBC World Online link talks to current traveller's advice: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1548000/1548125.stm

It includes this list:

"As a consequence, these items are now prohibited from hand luggage:

* Toys or replica guns (plastic or metal)
* catapults
* household cutlery
* knifes with blades of any length
* paper knifes
* razor blades
* tradesmen's tools
* darts
* scissors
* hypodermic syringes
* knitting needles
* sporting bats
* snooker cues"

Not all of the items are commonly carried by US passengers. :–)

I will admit that I have not carried a catapult in the last couple of years.(I tend to more a boiling oil type of guy). of interest is that I received a travelts update from USAIR and Travelocity, both providing great details on the restrictions and new procedures

FWIW: last year in October, my husband and I were returning from New Orleans and had confiscated out of our carry on luggage a tiny (about 1 1/2 inch long) replica of a colt 1911 gun, on a keychain. We joked about holding up the plane with it grasped between our thumb and forefinger. It did seem a little silly at the time.

I believe anybody with reservations (regardless of airlines) and an email address has recently received a travelers update. Addtional efforts by Dive operators now seem somewhat redundant.

How about a snooker cue??

Are the USAIR/Travelocity updates worth posting links here?

Susan there is/was available at Louisiana/Texas gunshows a cowboy style belt buckle with fully functional 22L caliber, 6-shot revolver. It was also available in a key chain model, the folks in New Orleans were very serious!!!

Kelly,

The e-mails I've received all refer to items which may no longer be carried in "carry ons". NONE of them make mention that some airport security operations will ban/confiscate the same things from one's _checked_ luggage. That's what Glen and I are both trying to make sure is clear to any travelers to Bonaire. So, again, if Joe brings a pair of sea snips in his checked bags, as permitted by the new security rules (and I highly advocate sea snips over dive knives, and dive with mine every time I dive) from say Boston to Bonaire, he will have a rude shock when he tries to leave Bonaire and finds his sea snips confiscated out of his checked luggage (which is duty above and beyond the FAA regs).

Jake

PS And yes, Glen, please post the links.

Jake, point taken.

However, I still do not see notification to be the responsibility of CURO or any of the dive operators. A number of the Caribbean islands are served by "puddle jumpers" where passengers and/or crew have in-flight access to checked luggage. I agree with Jason in that this is a "travel" related issue.

It's not the responsibility of CURO, nor that of the individual dive operators. However, it would be a nice courtesy. That's all that's been suggested, I believe.

Imagine how good a visitor to dive shop X on Bonaire would feel if he got advanced warning about this problem from the dive shop, especially after witnessing, upon departure, a very annoyed customer of dive shop Y who didn't get advance notice... Seems to me that it's simply good customer service - no matter who provides it.

Jake

Jake.. I have had my checked baggage searched before.. (my favoite airline) and yes they were on the verge of confiscation.(luckily I had copy of the appropriate FAA reg with me) . In the US baggage is routunely xrayed.. "confiscation" I think is strong term.. as I advised a couple headed down now that if they have any problem they might consider calling the resort they are staid with to see if the can pick up the offending article..so that arrangements can be made for getting it back to the US (resort not dive shop since the resort is who they are actually in most cases the customer of and who have staffs that can help in such matters) Actually by regs you can carry a standard dive knife in your checked bags.. the point being is that a minimum wage security guard airport when faced with search baggage because of a lack of an xray is faced with a unique situation and try their best.. This is NOT unique to Bonaire..The BVI and other small islands are having similar problems. Sea Snips actually do fall well within the prohibited inpretation since the break down into a knife type object..

another interesting side consideration was the earlier electronics issue which is related to consideration of air cargo (now a no no on passanger planes)... at what point does your luggage, from content, become air cargo..(now Kelly, Walt and Jack hold your fingers..I know I know)... and subject to prohibition...

If anything Jake you may want to talk to the Tourist association on island so that ANY of the travelers (this may surprise some people.. but non divers come to bonaire).. who have problems with returnig articles to their home can have the articles picked up from teh airport and arrangements made for their return to their home country by sea or scheduled cargo service.. alot of photo gear is real marginal (shades and light stands) too..

Glen... In the US we have billards and pool.. and once in my misguided youth I had a personal cue..
which is look like, tastes like (and breaks across someones head just like.. did I say that) a snooker cue..

Me thinks that a Brit catapult is a Yank slingshot. Though boiling oil is very effective, especially when slung from a catapult (either type).

Verdad?

Probably with out ice though... By all means I am willing to try new and exciting ways to entertain unwanted guests..

Dare I mention a device that "launched" a round starchy object about a hundred meters ???? Now that entertained guests wanted and otherwise !!!

probably also banned under new coverage

Linnea,

Methinks that a 'catapult' in Brit covers machines from boiling oil, Greek fire, bags of stones, the Romans are at the walls, etc., on down to the local lads shooting buckshot (same term there???? :–)) where here a 'slingshot' is customarily just the snap-your-thumb-with-the-'laccy, buckshot size.

War machines had gone rather beyond big catapults by the time the white man came here so this side of the pond missed all that ancient fun.

Jake,

I also think the links would be worth reading. They are Jason's, mentioned in his 1:16 pm post. His call if he will be a 'good neighbor'.

Glen.. they say almost exactly the same things as have been stated earlier in fact difference cross links to the same url as earlier ones such as AA

Glen, I dare you to try to pack a castle besieging sized catapult in your carry-on.

Thankfully Linnea you did not issue that challenge to Jason...you have NO idea what that man can carry in a back pack.

There are two other things I would be concerned about:

1. During my school days, I was pretty deadly with 'spit-balls', so please try to avoid straws and other circular devices that could propell wads of paper, buckshot, and if coming from close to South America to America - those posion darts. So, no drink staws with little umbrellas or Green Parrots.

2. Sun Tans - better leave them behind, too. I have been seeing reports that if you are dark skin and even 'look' like a person from the middle east, FAA regs allow airlines to refuse passage IF a majority of passengers feel uncomfortable with the likes of your tan! I guess you should shave the mustaches also and those black beards.......

At least going naked would show the tan lines and could provide entertainment during the flight.

You guys are too much! What entertainment this has been!! LOL. How about fake fingernails.....could they be miscontrued as a weapon of sorts, too? Carole

Don't even think about toothpicks onboard the craft, either...dental floss might be used as a weapon, too, if you think about it.....Carole

as I can see senaking down an aisle with a garrote made out of dental floss..

...my students say that I sometimes use my eyes as weapons...

I'm a bit disturbed about the one that bans hypodermic syringes. What happens to diabetics on insulin if they're in a long layover? Last I checked, the "insulin pill" was still in research mode...

Faith

Faith - definitely disturbing (and discriminatory under US law).

On the lighter, darker side (AND DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!) I recall reading somewhere - maybe a Dilbert newsletter or a Howard Stern thing or something, where someone got a "friend" in trouble by putting an aluminum foil cut-out of something looking like a weapon (it was a gun shape in this case) inside a magazine or book in said "friend's" carry on. I think this is a pretty sick joke, but with modern airport scanners not likely to work since they use 3D imaging, and would probably see that whatever they thought they saw was very thin and flat. Anyhow, not a thing I advise. Probably shouldn't have even mentioned it, but it's been in my brain the last few days. Sorry.

Jake

for needles and meds, be sure you carry your perscription with you. I have a friend who arrived on American on Tues with her meds and had no problem. It was packed in an insulated bag in her carry on. Amazingly, no one even questioned her.

A good piece in the Washington Post about FAQ's and some of the new do's and don'ts, refunds etc.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7028-2001Sep21.html

Just back from my first flight/trip since..

Maggie and I flew to Orlando for Surf Expo (www.surfexpo.com)..big windsurf watersports show.

The airport Fri. night at Logan was sleepy. Swift check in, no one searched us but asked lots of questions. Empty flight on Delta..28 of us. I stretched out and slept the whole trip.

Surf Expo was fun. Met alot of industry friends and dug up some contacts for two big events I am planning.

Coming home the line to pass through the 3 security check points was sooooooooo long. It took
30 min. to pass. Once again, the flight only had 48 people so I slept the whole way home. The DL attendant sighed and told me she expects many layoffs soon. The hotels in Orlando were open and Surf Expo was not too crowded.

Safe and sound and less than 2 weeks til I fly to BON for Regatta!!

Annie
Cape Cod

Does anybody know the weight restrictions for American Eagle from San Juan? Also, are there any
size limitations? Thanks.

Standard internation convention.. I know weight is 70LB.per bag for two bags ,, with NO overage.. for isze you probably want to check the AA web site or your travel agent or if you aren't using one the airline direct

Might I ask what has been the experience in the last few days checking in for the 6:15 am American Eagle flight to San Juan.

How far in advace are you supposed to be at the airport? I know in the U.S. American Airlines is saying be at the airport 3 hours in advance of an international flight.

Is someone from American (or its rep) actually there 2-3 hours in advance of the 6:15 am flight?

Thank you.

My friend took the flight from BON last Thur. and checked in at 4 AM. He was searched very much .I am already dreading Oct. 14th when I have to do the same..Air Ja. is AWESOME..I can sail the day I get there and the day I leave. AA is losing a day in each direction..oh well. I saved 500.00 on AA. Annie

Annie,

If you're flying back on Oct. 14th from Bonaire on AA, look for me. I'll be along with you guys as far as San Juan (I'll be taking the Patent Bar Exam there that week), and Dan & Faith will be with you all the way to Boston...

Jake

I will be the grumpy looking one with 78 year old Mom and brown West Indian Maggie (9 years old) in tow. If I do not seem too friendly it is probably because the Post Bonaire Depression hit earlier that day at about 4 AM.



Faith and Jake, I will be at Sorobon all week during the day and a few nights in town..hope to meet you at some point??

Annie
Cape Cod (HV while in BON)

Attention all Oct 14th departees..after we check in at the ungodly hour of 4 AM, where can we go play til 6??

Annie
Cape Cod

I'll be here at WebCam central during most of Regatta week, getting reacquainted with my soon to be reappearing wife, as well as cramming for the Patent Bar Exam, as well as doing some diving with Dan & Faith, who will be right across the street from us at the Divers Paradise apartments. We'll have a babysitter or two available at least one evening, so maybe a BonaireTalk dinner somewhere?

As far as where to play at the airport, the Mirage Restaurant opens at around 4:30am. Good cheese pastechis in the wee hours :-)

Jake

I am in for a Bonaire Dinner or prob. better is drinks??

See ya at Mirage...and hopefully b 4...maybe Karels some night. Leave word (HV) if you and Dan and Faith want to meet..I will get Dara to come if she is done studying that day..



Ann Phelan
Cape Cod

Mirage did not open last Wed at 4 30 My house is two streets south of the airport. I may be bribed into putting the coffee on.

Geoffrey and I will be arriving on the 13th, midafternoon. If you decide to do the BonaireTalk dinner that night, let us know!

Susan

Oh Susan, that would be fun but since it is my last night I will prob. not be able to do dinner but maybe drinks at Karels?? Tough for me to plan as I have to consider racing and Regatta sked first and foremost.

Annie

That sounds good. We're arriving Air Jamaica from Boston, and we should be settled in to Captain Dons fairly early, barring delays.

We're not 100% sure we'll be getting a car - we've always been happy doing the boat dives and off-the-dock at Captain Dons - but if not, a taxi or, if someone driving by has room for us too (Geoffrey's a big guy, I'm asking a lot here!), we should be able to get there.

Susan

I wish I could say I am flying JA. Those flights are sooo good. AA are too darn weird. You lose a day at each end. Oh well..I am coming so that is all that matters. What number trip is this??

See ya at Karels..I will email you my pix and I cannot figure out how to download to my profile..Annie

Annie,

Got the photos. Damn girl, are you always that tan? And from Mass, too!

We'll be the pasty-faced ones who look like we have long sleeved shirts on, but don't.

Susan

Annie,

If you have a car this trip, think about checking in at the airport early but don't check out from HV yet (Don't know if you can check in your mother and Maggie w/o them there--would be easier). Then you can return to HV and shower. Then also have more options. Check car in just before boarding--also convenient to still have the car if flight majorly delayed. You also can pay the departure tax and get the receipt for check-in at any time, don't need to wait until check-in time and any lines then.

Glenn...the problem is the lines that are waiting to have all the luggage searched. It is not really more than 30 people on most flights, so it is not too grueling. Paying the departure tax the night before is not really an issue since folks have plenty of time while waiting for the search to be complete. For that matter, people can buy their departue tax on arrival. Oddly, the payment window is located at the arrivals hall exit?

My best reason for the two trips to the airport is that I very much prefer starting the trip in clean clothes after a shower instead of sweaty from wrestling bags.

I am assuming that any search of checked baggage is done at check-in, carry-on inspection at passage into the transit lounge as before. Different, in fact? In a way that invalidates my suggestions above??

Oh Glenn, good idea. I will get the dept. coupons sometime that week and will ask then if I can check in for Mom and Magster. Then they could sleep til 5 anyway.

Good idea..

How is Air Jamaica handling the mass of humanity and checked in baggage searches with those long lines that "normally" gather in the afternoons?? They are flying LARGE aircraft which holds LOTS of people and luggage.....anyone have any input? Thanks. Carole

I was there today and it was orderly, but time cousuming. Glen, they check all hand luggage as well as checked. It is amazing that once they have checked the carryons, you are free to wander off and do what you will. The do,of ocourse, go throgh the scanner, but I do think someone is not thinking.

Check-in has always been orderly in my experience; I just don't like to stand in lines. Earlier, shorter. Better to be having an Amstel.

Seem to be counting on the scanner for the sneaky people who leave sharpies w/ friend during search and then put them back in the carry-on.

Has anyone had experience carrying a Spare Air bottle in this new airline security environment?