PLEASE READ

http://www.wdcs.org/dan/news.nsf/webnews/2BF4C6D01EBC7BAC80256BD8003C26B0

http://www.wdcs.org/dan/publishing.nsf/allweb/975B92D775D79222802568DD0030A3B4

FROM BONAIRE REPORTER

EDITORIAL: Why is the Curaçao Sea Aquarium so eager to exhibit dolphins? Simple. It's a big moneymaker among other things. There's the $13 entrance fee and if, for example, you want swim with the dolphins it'll cost you another $129! The brochures emphasize that the dolphins "smile" they are so happy, and they "love people." Right. How loving are wild dolphins that don't depend on handouts of food from humans? Sure, dolphins have helped people in distress and enjoy riding in the bow wave of boats, but it's their choice as free creatures.
People have been conditioned to think of dolphins as dogs or household pets. In the 15th through the 19th centuries that's exactly how most people thought of the Africans who were their slaves. The slaves were "better off," they got regular meals, and loved working for their masters, they loved to play, and so on. They forgot that the African slaves and the ocean's dolphins alike had their own culture, families and lifestyle which were devastated when they were captured and forced to work to preserve their lives, and that it's difficult, if not impossible, to return to the old ways after years or generations in captivity. If you want to support 21st century slavery, visit the Curaçao Sea Aquarium. If not, speak out against it. Vote with your pocketbook and join the boycott.

FROM THE ARCHIVES:

http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/27/12820.html?

THANK YOU.

I have to say, I'm very close to booking myself on the next flight out to Curacao!

Sarah...I agree...Bahamas also has a swim with the dolphins site...we were very upset to see it...they also charge 100 to swim with the "wild" dolphins....it was horrible to see...I hope everyone follows your lead....Did we not sign up for the boycott when Linda posted almost a year ago?

Hi Meryl, yes, we did...

Sarah,

I thought of you yesterday as I was reading my National Geographic. There was an article on the State of the Planet that was of course a little depressing sprinkled with some hope. http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0209/resources_planet.html

They had a section on species on the brink, and one of them was a story about a plant called Café Marron. Apparently there was only one left in the world in 1980 and they tried to grow it, where else but Kew Gardens. http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/whatsnew/ramosmania.html

Other particularly depressing issues were with Coral Reefs and a rare porpoise.

Oceans have lost 27 percent of their coral reefs in the past 50 years, and little hope remains for the Vaquita, a rare porpoise that lives in the northern end of the Gulf of California. http://www.vaquitamarina.org

Lots for a future Marine Biologist to ponder.

Bye!


Oh yeah, one other place with a Dolphin swim in BVI http://www.prospectreef.com/dolphins.htm. Lots of people fought it but without success.

You can’t believe how small their pens are, I saw them as they were building them

I went to a dolphin encounter in Key Largo, FL. in 1999. It was great! I've read about dolphins returning to "captivity" rather than remaining in the wild.

You are insane to imagine that Negro human beings are comparable to dolphins. Shame on you. Do you want dolphins to vote? You're also opposed to canine captivity, is that it? C'mon, get real my friend.

Sorry Bill

My vote is with Sarah - we do not need more dolphins in captivity.

I have done a swim with dolphins and would not want to do it again unless it was with true wild dolphins.

Try and think - is your enjoyment causing suffering to something else (directly or indirectly).

Brian

Scott Thanks for the links. I'll take some time out today to read them..

Brian Thanks for your support.

Bill Insane? Shame on me?... thanks for your... thoughts?

Note: I didn't write the above Editorial, I posted it for those that don't have access to the paper.

The only way to combat the dophin program in Curacao is not to spend your money to do the encounter. How about boycotting the whole complex as well..next step, if a few thousand folks decide to boycott Curacao and let their intentions be known to the minister of tourism, it may have some effect. A few well written letters to the Dutch Queen would not hurt either.

I hope none of you ever visit your local zoo. None of those animals are there by choice either.

Sarah, have you ever considered that initiatives as this, like zoo's, however commercial they may be, help to make people more aware of the evironment? From what I understand, swimming with dolfins is a thrilling experience and people have been known to become very active in their protection afterwards. On an island where most of the tourists come from the USA, the country with by-far the worst trackrecord when it comes to the evironment, establishing awareness might actually be a good thing...

One can interact with dolphins in the wild if they choose to do so. North of Perth dolphins of Monkey Mia & Shark Bay interact willingly with tourists with out the need of imprisonment. Shark Bay Dolphins Many other people have reported interaction with wild dolphin all over the world in the wild, I’m sure it’s an amazing experience. Why force these animals from their natural habitat and social structure for our amusement at the risk of imbalance of the ecosystem? I also do not support keeping animals in a circus for entertainment. This does nothing to promote the well being of animals or species. Certain confinement of animals for species preservation and scientific study under humane conditions for limited period of time makes sense to me. Removing animals from the wild and forcing them to live for the rest of their life in cages for our amusement doesn’t make much sense to me and I’m sorry that it’s done.

Canines were domesticated many thousands of years ago, right or wrong it can’t be undone; they are now largely dependent on humans for survival. Dolphins are not domestic animals and in my humble opinion should not be kept in confinement against their will. It doesn’t do anyone any good except for the person colleting money; so I support boycotts of places that confine dolphins and all animals as a matter of fact when kept strictly for the entertainment of human beings.

I do however feel this is only one of many issues in the overall crises of our oceans. The fact that 27% of coral reefs have disappeared in the last 50 years is cause for deep concern. I’m fairly certain that most people who dive and snorkel have a greater appreciation then those who don’t for the importance and the fragility of the ocean. I choose to see the creatures of the ocean on their terms, in their house, and I go home without anything but pictures and memories.

My 2 cents, I’m sure I’ll get some change.

I am as a dolphin born, into a concrete pool
Who has never known anything better,
yet yearns for open sea
Perhaps a seabird's feather,
once landed in my pool
And instinct knew the odour,
of the place where I should be.....
By Laurence Frost


Further Reading:
http://www.wag.co.za/dolphins/captivity.html

I think zoo's have done and are doing more for the promotion of environmental consciousness than anything else. Most of the zoo's, at least in the Western world, are very active in supporting the protection and salvation of wildlife. There are examples where animals were already extinct in the wild but where conservationists were able to re-introduce the species through breeding in zoo's.

On the topic of coral reefs... Sorry to say this Scott, but a lot of the damage on the reefs has been done by divers in the first place... Not everybody who goes down there has a clue what he's doing.

A final note on the Seaquarium itself. What's the big fuss anyway? Why focus on this and not Seaworld or Dolfinarium Harderwijk (here in Holland) who have been doing the same thing for decades?

There are many different reasons for the damage to coral reefs.. warming sea temps, overfishing, pollution.. I could go on in great detail.. However, the damage caused by divers/snorkelers does not create a big blip on the screen. That does not mean to say c reefs are immune from divers/snorkelers. A fin kick can break off pieces of coral and also damage their delicate tissue, which leaves them vulnerable to disease and algae. Learning good buoyancy control skills is also very important. Most dive operators in their briefings point out the above before departing..(if not, they should). I believe it is their responsibility to do so, thereby protecting the future on which their business depends.

OK, I've gone off the subject here, I apologise.

As I said Marc, “for species preservation and scientific study under humane conditions for limited period of time makes sense to me” There are some newer zoo’s such as the San Diego Wildlife Park have done wonderful things for the support of endangered species and keep the animals in substantially larger confinement areas then any place before them. Certainly some zoos are affiliated with WWF, etc. However I can show you a number of private zoos and especially circuses in the Untied States and other countries such as Australia where animals are kept in barley hospitable conditions and this is from 1st hand experience. I don’t think the numbers of seals that have died in the National Zoo because people are throwing pennies in the pools are doing anything to promote the species.

I also don’t think that divers and snorkelers contributed to 1% of the total reef loss in the last 50 years. I’ll agree that there are people who don’t know what they are doing and they damage the easily accessible reef areas that recreational divers and snorkelers frequent, so it is painfully obvious to those of us who visit these reefs. This is why I financially and physically support organizations such as REEF to promote educating and the study of coral reefs.

One final note, I DO let my feeling known to Seaworld by not going there and encouraging every person I know to consider not supporting such places. I have no specific grudge against this or any aquarium or zoo, this is just my personal opinion. I don’t expect to change many people’s minds, but I do hope for discussion on such topics with people like you in hopes of at least keeping such issues on people’s minds.

Some have derided the use of dolphins for amusement or enjoyment. Others have noted the educational purpose of zoos.

I would remind everyone concerned about the use to which dolphins can be put for therapeutic purposes. See http://www.dolphins.org/learn/dh_thrpy.htm and many other places documenting the near-miraculous healing power of dolphins.

"Try and think - is your (uninformed opinion) causing suffering to something else (directly or indirectly)."

Bill

Sorry people should not abuse animals even for therapeutic reasons. This is similar to the crass argument that Norway and Japan use to continue the mass slaughter for whales for science!

Mark

Hollands record on being animal friendly is hardly world class shall we start with the veal crate which unfortunately is still a common practice.

I haven't been on Bonairetalk for a day or two and just read this interesting thread. I think it pictures the division between environmentalists, capitalists and realists. My English is not perfect so you might take offense in me writing it down like this - that's not my intention.

I think to boycot a place or not to visit an island is an individual choice. I don't think many Caribbean-Cruise Tourists care a bit about an initiative like this. And the majority of the tourists visiting Curacao is from America but not necessarily from the USA.

When the Curacao Seaquarium opened its doors many years ago the intention of the owner was 1. to make profit (of course) and 2. to educate the people on the island. Years ago the people of Curacao had *no* idea what was swimming in the Caribbean Sea. They ate fish caught from it but were never able to dive and see for themselves. You must understand that the divers on the Antilles are mostly *not* locals. Most local people do not have the money to have a hobby like diving.

The owner of the Seaquarium is a diver, just like a lot of you who visit this community. He had a lot of money and built a Seaquarium (and a man made beach with a great waterslide for the children) and wanted the local people to enjoy it. At first, they did. But then the entrance fees started to rise because of the huge amounts of money it cost to maintain a Seaquarium and beach like that. The consequence was that the local people didn't visit as often (or in many cases not at all). The Seaquarium became something for the upper middle class and the richer people, divers and tourists....

Still, I believe it has served a purpose. I am not keen on animals living in captivity. But I do enjoy a visit to a ' new type' of zoo, where the animals have enough space (well, it's never enough) to walk, swim or fly. Still, I think it is a bit odd that people think it's okay to swim with dolphins in the wild, and not when the dolphins are in captivity. If you are a straight environmentalist you should never want to swim with dolphins at all (and then I mean booking a trip just for that purpose, not if the dolphin starts chasing your boat).

If you see things in a different perspective I think it's okay to share with the environment. And then I mean: you take a little, you give a little. And I mean *little*. I am not into mass and biotech-production or getting oil from Alaska, but I think it's okay to take a bit from nature (eat some meat or fish, dive, have animals in captivity that can 'cope') if you give something back in return.

I don't like to see things in black and white. In this crazy world there are so many shades of grey. I think the key lies in 'proportion'.

Just my two cents....

Kitty

Nicely stated and you are right things should be kept in proportion.

But back to the dolphins should they be kept in captivity in a concrete pool, in my opinion definitely no. How about in a fenced off area of ocean, my opinion would still be no.

I guess the nub of the problem is why are we imposing captivity on this animal, is it for the animals benefit or ours. Well unless the dolphin is sick or injured then it is for our benefit.

So what do we get from this. Well there is a point that people being able to see dolphins and start to understand the ocean and want to help the environment. But Curacao is an island surrounded by the ocean and dolphins are not uncommon. Maybe dolphin boat trips could be arranged, but that would be at a cost and sightings would not be guaranteed. So it would be cheaper to capture a dolphin for people to see. So here we are back to $$$.

Some things are I feel best kept Black and White and shades of grey in this case are just to dress the arguments in an attempt to justify IMHO a wrong.

Hello Brian,

I must agree with you on your opinion on keeping dolphins in captivity. A concrete pool, a fenced off area in the ocean (which in the surroundings of Curacao should be quite difficult because of the depth) - I would not want to see that happen.

So I am not trying to justify a wrong here. I was just pointing out that the Curacao Seaquarium has served a certain purpose in the past. I don't consider the dolphin of any specific educational value to the people of Curacao. Dolphins are very well known animals, there are a lot of Seaquariums in the world that already have them. So why should Curacao get her own but for the money it generates for the owners of the Seaquarium...

By the way, I have lived on Curacao for more than 13 years and I have *never* seen a dolphin in the wild. My mother turned into a dolphin watcher for a short period of time (after I left the island) and she says she has spotted some. She swam with a dolphin just off the coast of Curacao one time. But then she almost considers herself a dolphin, that's why the dolphins come close to her ;-)

Still, I wonder why dolphins get such 'privilege' above other animals (or the other fish in the Seaquarium)... Any animal in closed captivity is a shame, IMHO. I *wish* there weren't any animals in cages and kept in houses... I guess I'm not the only one thinking this...

Brian, one word: foxhunt... (or is that 2 words? )
No country is perfect and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a country where people are more evironmentally aware than mine, with the exception of the Scandinavian countries.
Kitty is absolutely correct in stating that no animal, be that dolfin, man or whatever, should be put higher than any other animal. Every animal is important to keep the eco-system in balance. Although I have my doubts about those damn mosquitos .

Cruelty-Free Dolphin Activities

http://www.freethedolphins.com

I also agree that all animals should be treated same and dolphins are only one issue and don’t deserve special treatment above other animals. The Sumatran Rhino, the Bengal Tiger and the Indian Elephant are all species that may disappear within my life time for the wild, largely due to reduction of habitat. I too would prefer not see animals in captivity, at all. However I too find it hard to have a too much compassion for misquotes!

Terminally OT.
(redo of a dec.’98 rant)

you need the mosquitoes maybe more than the rest of it, no mosquitoes = low mangrove community fish population.

and I gotta say SHELL is one of the best out there for responsible exploration/development; and die naderlands are a pretty forward thinking nation, maybe the most.

Maybe something is to be said for viewing animals & fish behind bars and glass, potentially causing greater awareness of the needs and problems with critters large and small.

I just hate so see it tho, zoos have always been an incredibly depressing place for me. When I pass that damn dolphin thing down in the keys, I can’t stop the vision I’d like to see: some of Edward Abby’s monkey wrench gang or maybe even ole skink himself(of Hiaasen lore) popping out of the mangroves to hatch some unlikely rescue mission. It’s the jail bars.. and cages, captivity, depressing.(currently reading "Ghost Solders" not helping)

Guess that’s why I got all torqued up when the jail bars made their appearance (for me) in Bon in oh, what, about 1995? I know there none in 1986, didn’t notice them in 1988 or ’89 come to think about it. We may have seen the incipient one or two in ’92, but we still of course had all of our gear, money, & valuables strewn about anywhere in our little house that didn’t have a lock on the door as far as we knew.
The thought of closing up a house on the ocean, shutting out the breeze, smells and sounds of the sea, in favour of the drone of an air conditioner, did not even enter our minds. At shore dives our truck always had backup dive equipment, six tanks and a first aid kit. We had a lot of stuff that made the experience so wonderful. like big cooler loaded with food, water and beer, sometimes a bottle of sparkling wine for a sunset, maybe a couple of cameras, certainly the binoculars, reference books, stationary, sun glasses, extra tee shirts maybe a dry set of cutoffs. Lets see rain slickers and almost certainly at least two flashlights and a strobe, what did I forget? Of course, the bug spray and some sunscreen, and an assortment of knives (no not those kind, cheese and bread knives)

What I really forgot was the bonairian people, truly friendly and helpful.

With the jail bars went this experience of Bonaire. Now of course, its lock everything away, close the windows, lock the doors and crank the ac, nothing in the truck and watch the filler hose and spare tire and for gods sake don’t forget that "wheel club". The same smiling faces as before but now tainted(In my mind at least) with the fact that more than just a few are involved with crime, evidenced by how it has flourished in the last 8 years or so.

If you are going to boycott a zoo, you may want to consider Bonaire, Those poor people ( and you) are being incarcerated their homes, condos, time shares, motel rooms and places of business. Its just depressing as hell.

Pre ’95 Bonaire is gone, some perverted preventable morph has taken its place. I still maintain a combination of revenue(tourist impact tax) to spread the wealth about somewhat with some type of social program(s) and more importantly, a ground up police community tactical plan, could go a long way to not getting it back to what it was, but at least make it so much better than what it is now, from my perspective.

If your perspective is say, for example, a little room on GITMO, it may be ok for you.

As always, Best Regards,
Dave Scott

Sorry, OT but following up to comment made above:

If you do not like mosquitoes, remember to bring a bat house to Bonaire to help the bats out! There is an entire folder upon this site that discusses the wonderful bats of Bonaire.

Of course the bats in your local home town would not mind you putting up a bat house for them too

I have mixed feelings about zoos and and any animal held in captivity. I think there are pros and cons to everything, but cruelty is the worse, and believe it or not, there is a lot of that going on in all these places.

When I went on a guided boat snorkel in Turks and Caicos a few years ago, about 8 of us jumped in and there were 3 dolphins swimming around us in the wild for an hour! The responsible guide said please don't touch them so they don't become too acclimated to humans, and we did all we could not to reach out and touch them. The amazing thing is, they would not stop rubbing up against us!! And still we resisted, trying to be conscious of the harm it could bring these amazing mammals. It was the most incredible, unforgettable hour of my life!

Dave OT yes but it keeps us awake.

Kitty we saw a large pod in Curacao in December and were going snorkel with them but some dumbass instructor/group leader arrived late at the dock and we had to go back and pick them up. Turns out he had been resting after a 200 foot plus dive with a trainee, when we got back out no Dolphins :-{

Fox hunting is very unacceptable and hopefully this lame government of ours will ban it; or is it just more promises. Marc I agree about the mossies -- will try not to release both barrels in future.

I have just been informed that a dolphin at the Curacao Seaquarium has died. The dolphin was born in 1999 and died in captivity last month.

Sarah

was it this one

Zoe Curacao Seaquarium Born 1999 died 2002/07/05 Approx. 3 years

Have a look at http://www.captivitystinks.org/dolphins.html

It takes a long time to load as the list or early deaths is VERY long, so if anyone still believes in captivity for Dolphins then IMHO you really have S*!T for brains.

also try www.savedolphins.org

Regards

Brian

Brian

Yes, that’s the one.

Thanks for the link, and you’re right, it’s a VERY long list.

Here’s a bit of good news

WDCS Summer Raffle raises over £40,000 for whales and dolphins!
http://www.wdcs.org

I’ve been a member of the WDCS for many years and I’m involved in the Adopt a Dolphin Project. But there are other ways to help:
http://www.charitycard.co.uk/whales/default.asp

Also: if you call 0870 870 5001 the WDCS will send you a collection box. Just get it filled up and send the money back to them. You can have as many boxes as you like!