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Accommodations: Planning trip in Nov. Sand Dollar vs. Plaza Resort?
Bonaire Talk: Accommodations: Archives: Archives 2000 to 2006: Archives - 2004-08-04 to 2005-05-09: Planning trip in Nov. Sand Dollar vs. Plaza Resort?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard B. Emerson (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 2:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

My wife and I are planning our annual Thanksgiving trip and Bonaire seems to be this year's winner. The choice about where to stay seems to be down to Sand Dollar or Plaza Resort. We'd appreciate "been there, done that" input on either resort. Also, my wife is not a diver but is quite comfortable snorkeling. While I can and occasionally do dive solo, this is not a place I care to do that. Each resort has their dive operators, of course, but any input on managing this situation would be a help, too (and possibly a topic for another thread?)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Long (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #102) on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 4:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard, we would vote for Plaza Resort, our seven trip there. The dive shop Toucan Diving is the best. We will be there November 21-28, hope to see you there, if not at Gibi's and Bongo's. Gary & Kathy Long

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Gauron (BonaireTalker - Post #70) on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 4:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sand Dollar is condo setup. Not my cup of tea. Plaza Resort, is a resort. More to do, and has a beach. Ok snorkeling.

In Bonaire you will be able to find someone to dive with.

Do check out there web sites and look over what some other people have said about the two.

Flip a coin, you can't loose, you are going to Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Yana girl (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #220) on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 8:28 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard,
Jerry is right...flip a coin either place will be good. IMHO Bonaire diving is the best. If you have time add your name to the Nov 2004 list.
Yanagirl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #644) on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 9:20 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard,

what criteria did you use to narrow down your choices to either Plaza or SD...did you consider Buddy Dive or Divi...I think Divi is a better choice for non divers because there are more things to do and easy walk down the promenade to town

Plaza and SD are good choices...flip a coin

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Edison (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 10:13 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I agree with Gregg--Buddy Dive, Lions, Capt. Don's and the Divi are rough equivalents. We stayed at Sand Dollar in '03 and loved it. All have websites and you can find plenty of posts on this site. (Check the archives too.)

I'm not a solo diver but a resort house reef in Bonaire is probably the safest place to do that.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Blanchard (BonaireTalker - Post #18) on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 4:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard, I too would recommend Divi for your trip. We have stayed there 9 times and find it perfect for our 2-week stay. We rent a condo but there are also hotel rooms available. The shore snorkeling is easy and pretty good. Diving is excellent and finding "dive buddies" will be no problem. Also, it is a 10 minute walk to town.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard B. Emerson (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 6:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for all of the input. However, between input from friends who leads dive trips to Bonaire and reading further on BT, I don't see Bonaire in our near term travel plans. If Bonaire gets their theft problems down to tolerable levels we'll take another look.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Thuillier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #165) on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 7:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard, is there no crime in Skipjack,PA? If you follow simple common sense precautionary measures ie; don't leave valuables in your vehicle yada,yada,yada then you should have a worry free vacation. We did a lot of remote area diving when we were there last month including one rather remote night dive without any problems at all. I can't say I wasn't concerned about it but I wasn't going to let it ruin my trip. Bonaire is much too nice a place to pass up for such a ridiculous reason.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard B. Emerson (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 10:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

First off, I do understand basic travel security. I don't flash cash, I don't wear jewelry, and I do look to see what's going on around me. I use the room safe (forget using the room number for the combination) and the room door is locked and safety chained always.

That said, my impression is the odds of some sort of vandalism happening are, relative to many other parts of the Caribbean, high. I don't take that to mean it's a sure thing something will happen but neither does it seem to be the odds are nothing will happen. It's one thing to visit a place with a reputation for problems when you're on business and have to be there. But when it comes to vacation time, I'm there on my dime and I'm paying that money to have an enjoyable time.

On a vacation I expect to be able to lock my car, with no valuables or shopping bags showing, and come back to find it intact. That's what happens when I park in center city Philadelphia whether in a parking lot or on the street. That's what happened on Grand Cayman, Cozumel, and St. Martin. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the same of Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #236) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:39 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Gary,

Not to disagree, but I disagree with you. Fear of crime is NOT a "ridiculous" reason to avoid going someplace on vacation.

When ALL the reports were just the petty B.S. thefts of sunglasses and from folks who left gold bars, diamonds and new digital cameras in their unlocked rental truck, you would have a point. Not anymore.

This poster is brand new and for all I know could be just another Troll looking to stir up debate. But it is a legitimate debate and the perception of a lawless environment becomes the reality.

I live in Chicago, and within 30 seconds of meeting someone from another country or other distant region in the USA they make a Rat-a-Tat machine gun sound, ala Al Capone from SEVENTY years ago in Chicago. Why? The perception from every Hollywood movie of the era lingers on.

From the perspective of a First-Time reader, there ARE a LOT of posts by LOCAL Bonaire citizens and residents expressing their complete frustration with the current situation and how hopeless they feel in their government actually solving the problem anytime soon.

Is it being blown way out of proportion to the reality? Of course it is. But perception does tend to become the reality that matters. Restaurants that look dirty inside, and seem to be making NO effort to wash the dishes or sweep the floors tend to lose customers rather quickly.

All with the caveat that this fellow could just be another Troll playing games on his computer.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The Ginocchio's @ Golden Reef Inn (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #385) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:51 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Randy,

I have to agree with the others. We have been to Bonaire 4 times this past year, one time was for a month stretch and we had no problems. We DID lock the vehicle with no valuables in it and had no problems. Percentage wise, petty crime is LOW compared to other Caribbean Islands. We found many islands where you could not leave the resort compound due to "petty" theft and crime. On Bonaire we went where we wanted, when we wanted and didn't have a problem. I definitely believe you should reconsider, especially since the diving is so spectacular and 99% of the locals are fantastic.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The Ginocchio's @ Golden Reef Inn (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #386) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Whoops...I meant to address this to Richard, not Randy, sorry.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard B. Emerson (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:28 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The troll comment makes my point rather nicely. In the "good old days", someone posted a note and it was taken at face value. Now, sadly, we have to factor in what is this person really up to? But that doesn't mean everybody says, "that's it, the Internet is a nightmare, I'm outta here". However, some forums have been so overrun by flaming and trolls that people do go elsewhere, leaving a forum to die off or become just one more flame fest unless the moderator takes some action. In the Caribbean, in the "good old days" life was a little easier, the locals weren't overly obvious about separating you from your money, and all had a good time.

That said, my conclusion is Bonaire has a very real problem. My need to be there (i.e., for diving) is not so great as to make putting up with a higher risk of vandalism (please note I'm not saying it's a sure bet that something will happen) worth the effort. As I said earlier, nobody wins here. I don't get to see Bonaire, the local businesses don't get my business, somebody else may decide to pass on Bonaire after seeing this and similar threads, and even the vandals are left with nothing new to smash. Until the government does the math on this, things won't get any better and probably will get worse. Meanwhile the nice people on St. Pomme de Terre will be very happy to see my dollars while Bonaire has to do without.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #237) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:34 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

No offense taken, I assure you. If a local islander came to visit MY hometown, one look at a newspaper or TV news program would have them scared witless and back at the airport to flee home.

It is "almost" a mathematical certainty that a street-smart tourist on Bonaire is safer, or at least no LESS safe, than most vacation destinations worldwide. the ONLY thing keeping ME off Bon is the relative size (or rather total lack of it)that exists in my bank account.

Your crime statistics hardly give me the frights. Your "police" situation however leaves me depressed and your government's inertia leaves me, as always, convinced that I am WAY smarter than a lot of politicians. You have a great thing going on Bonaire, and it sounds like they are trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory the way the mess is being handled.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard B. Emerson (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:57 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thinking about this thread a little more, I'll add a few more general comments. Trying to count up the situations where I might have wanted or actually needed police assistance, over the past seven or eight years I can think of two incidents in the BVI and one marginal incident on St. Martin. They ranged from dealing with a "drunk and disorderly" while loading up a dinghy after being picked up, by friends, on Beef Island, a scam for $2EC to park in what turned out to be Grand Case's town parking space (free), and an outright break in and theft while moored off Cooper Island, BVI. We've rented cars on several islands without incident and otherwise never felt threatened or at risk.

In the case of the drunk, he followed my friend's wife and my wife into a store and the store clerk called the police. The women called us on the VHF, said "come get us NOW", and we left. Life in the Caribbean, mon...

In the case of Cooper Island, we were dumb enough to not secure the boat before going ashore for dinner. We learned later that other boats were broken into at the same time and, in fact, this was a systematic "smash and grab". While there seemed little hope of police action, a week later the same crew attacked another charter boat and there was a fight; a charterer was slashed and required many stitches to close the wound. Within a relatively short time the criminals were found, some items were recovered (including a camera with images of our party as well as new images of the criminals!), and, in the end, the criminals were convicted.

This is all by way of saying "been there, got done, lost my t-shirt". So, when I see a number of people saying "at this place, don't lock up, don't leave anything, and watch your back even in the hotel", I take that as a warning worth paying attention to. We've given away enough t-shirts, thank you.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Besco (BonaireTalker - Post #57) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 7:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard please read the thread titled "Arrested",
before a final decision is made. There is a 90% chance you'll enjoy Bonaire so much that a repeat trip will be in the works even before you get back home. I've been here four times with the lasted in Feb. and I was doubtful about number five until the arrest. Now the next trip is starting to take shape. It's a GREAT Island to solo, filled with great people and beauty above and below the sea.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Clark (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 9:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard,

My wife and I just returned fom two weeks in Bonaire and had an absolutely wonderful time. Before we left to go down, I did as you are doing right now - researching your destination. I too was worried about the crime and how little seemed to be done to find and punish the bad guys. I was also sure that we would wind up being one of the statistics. As it turned out, we had no problems with theft from our room, vandals destroying our truck or stealing the spare tire! Please don't do as I did and condemn before you try. As with anywhere else in the world, you just have to use your common sense.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Johnson (BonaireTalker - Post #79) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 9:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard:

Bonaire is not a risk free place. Neither is where I live (Olympia, Wa.) -- although I feel safe in both places. But, like TV news, this group can give one an inaccurate perception of risk. (Note: I am *not* saying that the incidents reported in either place are incorrect or exaggerated in any way).

Many who care about Bonaire (natives, expats and visitors alike) are urging the local government to take the crime issue seriously. As they should! Recent incidents in Bonaire (one set for which there have already been arrests) are all the more jarring because, while petty car prowls have been a problem, incidents with a greater potential for violence have been rare. While petty theft remains an issue I am convinced that simple precautions can innoculate you (don't leave valuables in the car, lock your door when you leave your room to go down to the pool or to dinner, etc., etc.)

In Olympia, we had a string of home invasions that included the county prosecutor (ouch) and the beating of an 80+ year old man. The last participant was just sentenced to more than 20 years in prison. That crime happened about a year ago. This year we have had two shootings both the escalation of fights begun in a bar. Yet, Olympia is objectively a pretty darn safe place.

BTW, I would argue that the risk of crime is at least as large on St. Martin or GCM as it is on Bonaire. And the only time I have had stuff stolen was on Cozumel (and for every week I have spent on CZM, I have spent a month on Bonaire). Yes, I leave the windows down and nothing in the car. Yes, I lock my room when I go to the other end of the resort or out on a dive. (And I *never* leave anyone behind to watch the truck when I go diving...)

Out of probably five months spent on Bonaire: time spent looking over my shoulder -- 0%; times I felt like a cop would be handy -- 0; times I needed to "pick someone up in a hurry" -- 0; number of time I have had any theft/damage be attempted or occur -- 0. Time I was asked if I wanted to buy drugs -- 1 (a guy once asked me if I was interested in "three girls")

In the end, it is your money and your vacation time. For me, Bonaire still meets my tastes better than anywhere else I have found. It offers great shore diving (often done solo), friendly people and reasonable tourist amenities without being in tourist central.

So, where is St. Pomme de Terre?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Thuillier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #167) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

My French is a little rusty but isn't Pomme de terre a potato. A lot is said about the amount of petty crime, particularly vehicle break-ins and vandalism but I haven't seen anyone put it into a perspective of ratio of vehicles left in remote areas compared to that of other islands. Bonaire is unique in it's shore diving. No where else will you see so many unattended, vulnerable cars. I just look at the odds as I would at home, use common sense and enjoy my vacation. I can only say that of the islands and countries we have visited, Bonaire was the only one where I felt comfortable walking the streets at nights, but then we haven't been to St. Potato yet.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Thuillier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #168) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Randy, I agree that you have the right to disagree with me but I disagree with you. I'm going to Boston tomorrow night. People get their cars vandalized there, people get mugged and brutalized there, and people get murdered there. So, should we stay home or go have a good night out.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #240) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 8:46 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Gary,

My advice? Enjoy the chowder, it's fantastic! Even the stuff they serve at the airport was wonderful.

But if you just posted that you were NOT going to go because of all the crime, I'd tell you that you were really over-reacting to the news, and should keep it in perspective to the "normal" experience millions of tourists experience in Boston every year. I would stress that they have a proud and effective police force and a good court system and you will most likely NOT have a bad experience of ANY kind, even though I could not GUARANTEE it.

But I don't think I'd say your fear was ridiculous. Hey, I've got a brother who was born and raised here in Chicago, who MOVED himself and his family out to the farm country, partly out of fear of crime.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Thuillier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #169) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 9:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

OK Randy, I suppose ridiculous was a poor choice of words. Anyway it is a pity someone would pass up the Bonaire experience because of something that could likely happen in his own back yard.

PS You can enjoy the chowder yourself thank you.
I DON'T DO SEAFOOD Pretty bad eh! Coming from a New England Diver.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Johnson (BonaireTalker - Post #85) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 3:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Given the recent arrests, I think most visitors will feel safer. Here is my summary of security tips for Bonaire:
a) Don't leave anything outside your room drying at night (i.e., wetsuits, bcs, etc.);
b) When you leave your room (to go for a dive, to go to lunch, etc.), why not lock your door?
c) When you park your car, especially at a dive site, why not leave *nothing* of value of in it, leave the car unlocked and the windows rolled down?
d) When you rent a car, why not check to be sure the spare tire is somehow locked?

Given all that Bonaire has to offer, these really do not seem overly intrusive. Regretable, perhaps, but not really that big a deal (and no different from what I do on most other trips -- except for the windows down thing!)

Dave

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12535) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 7:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

David, I agree with you on a few of your statements. When we went to Sint Maarten last March, we looked over our shoulders constantly, made sure my purse and my mother's were securely under our arms when we were in town shopping. We got lost our first night and ended up driving through Phillipsburg at night, and were obviously not in the right area...very uncomfortable. They tell you to not go on any off or side roads, particularly at night. In the room, there was a handout of all the things and precautions to take to not have an "incident" happen. Some of these things on this list in addition to the above were:

1. Lock the room door when you are in the room, or out of the room.
2. Put all valuables, cash, passports, jewelery, AND car keys in the safe when you are not in your room, and when you are IN your room.
3. Close all curtains when you are NOT in your room.
4. Do not go into Philipsburg in the evening. The restaurants they recommended were in Simpson Bay (for the Dutch side).
5. Do not take side roads in the day or night. Stay on the main roads at all times.
6. Do not leave anything of value (i.e. dive gear included) on the balcony, even if you are IN THE ROOM. (and we were on the second floor).
7. Do not leave anything visible inside the car at any time, nor in the trunk.

They did have full time security during the day and night. They had a guard shack with semiphores.

I'm sure I'm missing some...but that's a LOT more than you have to do on Bonaire...

I won't even go into the crime and safety in Puerto Rico where I spent 6 weeks last spring too...nuff said about that...

Quite honestly, I have never felt safer in a foreign country as I do on Bonaire. You can walk the water front at night, don't have to look over your shoulder every 5 seconds, or be hounded by street vendors. I certainly hope that the rash of home invasions stops, and that the officials begin to take quicker action when something does happen. One more thing to add to David's list, lock the door even if you are in the room, and put all keys, money, passports, jewelery in the safe unless you are using it.

Richard, it's too bad that you have decided not to go to Bonaire. You will certainly miss out on some great diving, and meeting wonderful people who live on the island. And like others have said, there is a chance of being a victim of crime everywhere in the world, even my own back yard...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By DARLENE ELLIS (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1206) on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 10:56 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just came back from two weeks in Bonaire and I must say that I feel a lot safer in Bonaire than I do in the streets of Boston!!! Bonaire is the only island that I dare to go to when I travel solo and my husband knows that if I were to need anything while there that I would be in good hands from the great friends we have met on island. I have never been afraid to walk the streets at night and never once did I feel like I had to hang on to my purse! I am not blind to the fact that there is crime in Bonaire. I was there during the time that Barbara and her husband were attacked and I feel terrible for what they went through. And Yes the police need to care and do their jobs better but I firmly believe that Bonaire is still safer than any other island that I have been to!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Thuillier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #171) on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 8:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So Darlene, a little off topic but how did your new fins work out?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By DARLENE ELLIS (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1210) on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 9:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Gary, My new fins were incredible!They were just what I was looking for. They were very flexible and I could break the surface easily with them. Thanks for asking.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard B. Emerson (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 11:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

To tidy up some loose ends...

"St. Pomme de Terre" - a reference to the movie "Capt. Ron" with Kurt Russell and Martin Short. If you've chartered in the Caribbean or want to, this is obligatory viewing.

Sint Maarten - read TravelTalkOnLine.com and you'll find a lot of people raving about the places around Phillipsburg. I've seen worse places than Phillipsburg and the resorts on Sunset Beach (literally right next to the airport!!!) but leaving at least this part of Sint Maartin qualified as "feet don't fail me now" time. OTOH, the French side suited us just fine.

Finally, we haven't ruled out Bonaire at some time in the future but, for now, it's just not going to happen.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12552) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 2:47 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Richard, I hung out on TravelTalkOnLine.com for about 3 months before our trip gleaning a lot of information and printing out all sorts of stuff so when we got there, we would have direction on where the good restaurants were, places to shop, etc. We stayed at the timeshare Belair, which is between Phillipsburg and Simpson Bay. It is located at Little Bay. It was nice, but again, we did not feel safe most of the time, probably due to the warnings at the resort. Also, there are lots of crime reports on TravelTalkOnLine.com in regard to Sint Maarten...they just have a LOT more people living on the island.

We did do 3 dives while we were there, and they were good (compared to vis where we live and dive). However, it's one place we won't go back and spend our money. Oh, and Sunset Bar is a fun place to hang and watch the planes land!

I hope you have a great next vacation, wherever you decide to go :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lisa zacchio (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 8:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We just returned from our stay at the Plaza Resort. This was our 3rd stay there. We were a bit disappointed this time. Rooms not as clean as they used to be, there were plumbing problems ( our toilet area flooded everytime we emptied the bathtub, and a couple on our dive boat had no hot water until the second to last day). There were two rooms broken into, both of them on the ground floor. The first room we were given was on the ground floor, and the sliding door locks did not work. We insisted on being moved to the second floor, and with a locking door. I understand that things can happen, but a couple who were on our dive boat said that when they were broken into, security just laughed and made jokes. This was the most disturbing part.
Toucan dive, on the other hand, is fabulous. The staff can not do more to make your dives as wonderful as possible. Next trip to Bonaire, we will stay elsewhere, but definately dive with
Toucan.

 


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