I really want to understand here. There are some people on the board who feel compelled to share their religion with everybody. I hope they will come here and explain themselves, because I am getting letters from users who are leaving BT because of this religious fervor. It's spreading like zebra mussels, but it ain't cleaning up the water. I'm not sure what you folks are hoping for. I do not think that you want to generate an interesting religious discussion. Do you want to convert the unbelievers? Are you compelled by your religion to spread the word, and this is a comfy at home way to do that? Are you hoping everyone will come forth and share their worldview? Do you get brownie points with your god for proclaiming your faith? Do you want to shut up and/or drive everybody who does not share your religious views off of BT?

What would you folks do if you were running BT, and a group of Bonaire loving Muslims, Manicheans, Rastafarians, Santarians, or Fruitarians, Optimists, Nazis, or Shakers started joining up and posted about their worldview like you do? Don't you think you'd feel strange if suddenly references to Haile Selassie, the Lion of Judah, were all over BT?

Because I KNOW everybody is for Free Speech and against Evil Censorship, if I am to believe the legion of users who tell us so.

Lastly, what do you think WE ought to do now? How can we have a nice, civil, tolerant, informative, and welcoming BT, and leave the culture wars to Jerry Falwell and Rush Limbaugh? How can we get back to the time when our regular webcam posters helped the mods run things, and helped new users learn the ropes, because they knew the rules and had been around?

Seb are you referring to my good bye to Tom?

touch a personal issue Seb?
Or just an insignificancy?

---

quote:

and a group of Bonaire loving Muslims, Manicheans, Rastafarians, Santarians, or Fruitarians, Optimists, Nazis, or Shakers

---

Seb,

If understanding is what we need, I am not sure this is the best way to encourage a dialogue on the topic, IMHO.

pastafarians rejoice

Freddie, what did you and Tom do?? I miss everything, dag-gone responsibilities!

Is Seb P.O.'d at St Patrick's Day or sumthin? I don't understand the moral outrage if that is the cause. Who couldn't love the patron saint of alcoholism, bar room fighting and corned beef?

Or perhaps I have my saints mixed up?

lol

I feel that way about "diet" talk. So I don't partake in that conversation. Please don't sweat the small stuff. Peace be with you.

Absolutely not, Freddie, I have no problem with your God Bless.

Kristi, I don't know what you're trying to say. I think it's some sort of a slam? If you know what you're talking about, please, enlighten us.

I mean, I'd love to hear about who's coming for the holiday, or what special traditions people have, or how somebody's kids had a great time with easter eggs. I would happily look at snaps of the ladies new easter bonnets. That's the kind of community building Easter stuff I used to read on BT.

What I don't want to read is testifying or preaching, ala Kristi.


Happy Good Friday BT'er..remember he did it for you, even though...
"They divided my garments among them, and for my clothing, they cast lots."
Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,...

Ramen, Roger.

Ok Steve, start your own, more perfect thread for this subject. Show us the way.

Maybe I just should have posted my Easter joke.

Freedom of speech is a good thing. When it gets offensive for a growing group of BT users, we as moderators would not do a good job to ignore that.
Personally I respect every religion.
If you wish another user strength by giving him your blessing, that's a wonderful thing.
It just should not be important if the blessing comes from a Christian, Muslim or even a Pastafarian. JMO


Enjoy Eastern!

HELLO GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.
no comment.respect!!
Seb i send many times my blessings,what is wrong about that,it was never mend to,Obset,offend or to hurt anyone.by these.
and i feel not offend if there are people how don"t like it,i stand for what i believe so i respect others opinions.no matter if i agree.
there are so many other things thats more important,to start..
not to offend anyone.
hope we keep BT and CC good and friendly and not the way that people are stay away because they are not agree with some things.
hope if something is making anyone Obset they tell.just as You did.stay honest about it that will not so diffucult to do.and than we learn.
i have no right as a new comer on this board to say what is wright or wrong,but as a human i have the right,to say beware us of a new :little War:so to speak: coming about religions and other silly things on this board,keep it friendly and peaceful.
so i wish everyone where ever a HAPPY EASTERN with family,children,grandchildren,and friends.
because if there not around for some reasons.
You miss them a lot.Bless You all for those how believe.
HAPPY EASTERN...and PEACE

Wish You all a nice Eastern Holliday.

Don't forget Passover next month, y'all

Morning Michael,
if i come over to Bon i gonna slap You.LOL.
You know! have a nice weekend.LOL.

Ok, I take the bait...
Seb, the only thing close to "preaching" I've ever seen on the boards was Krist's post from yesterday, which you quoted...seems like that may have been bait also (sorry if I'm wrong Kristi) because it seemed kind of "out of character" from the rest of what I've seen her post. As far as my own "preaching" the closest I ever came was when Barbara "CB" Gibson came into the thread where I asked for prayer for my cancer-ridden step-mother and complained that we should be careful because not everyone is a Christian...my response to her (which was berated by her and others) was just a vain attempt to explain myself...I gave up that cause when I saw it wasn't taken the way it was intended.

then on Monday...I mentioned it was Holy week and people mentioned praying for my step-mom and then I said I felt a little better and expressed that "God is good'....YOU were the one who was intolerant and unkind when you posted that "Religion poisons everything"...I was at work and missed alot of what happened after that, but YOU started the argument...everyone who doesn't agree could have gone on and ignored what was said by the 3 early morning believers just like they did on many other days. If the day starts talking about sex, drinking, etc.... I don't blast those involved, I just don't participate in the conversation since it's not something I'm interested in or comfortable with....God is!

And the "koolaide" thing was Pegi attempting to "lighten" the mood...Christians could have taken as much offense to that as you did since Jim Jones was an outrage and embarrasment to anyone who truly follows a God of love (ANY God of love)... again...I took her comments in the spirit they were intended, but YOU took offense...so...if you wish to kick God off of BT so be it, but I do not understand why those who have a strong faith have any less of a right to discuss what they are about than those who talk about beer and "buns"....

So, Seb...I hope this answers your question...if you have any further questions, I will try to explain myself if you truly want to "understand" as you have indicated. Thank you.

I am hearing tolerance but seeing intolerance. I don't see anyone pushing religious beliefs on anyone. This IS a holiday celebrated all over the world. Tolerance? Acid comments from mods will never help the tone of the boards i.e."religion poisons everything". BT members ARE helping newbies with the ropes. Nice, civil, tolerant, informative, and welcoming is a good standard for mods too. Running the boards must be emotionally taxing; running the boards with emotion is not prudent. State your policy; gently at first inform the offender; get firmer if the offense continues; then block the offender.

I get more offended by the "political debates" that go on in here...so I go to another thread. There's lots of other things going on here, close what you don't want to read, look elsewhere. Laugh with Jerry, Tom & BH, or go to Diving or Dining, if all else fails, a good trip report with pics will always fit the bill!

If someone needs some "prayers" or "good vibes" - I give them, as they have given to me. It's a close community here on CC. We are and always have been here for each other. That's what CC is about. Laugh together, cry together...share things with each other. That is what has made such a close group of friends, most have NEVER even met!
If Seb was hurting and needed something, I know that we would all step up to the plate and send him our best (in whatever form that is) and let him know that we are here for him. Maybe his views aren't the same as mine, but I, personally, wouldn't let that stand in the way of being "there" for someone that just needed some "cyber-love".... I know I said I try not to respond to Seb's posts, but if someone is hurting and turns to BT for support, I can't pick and choose who I will back up, we are a community, a group, we are ALL here for each other.

Right now, in my life, there is TOO much turmoil going on. I honestly don't think I can take the drama that is going on here. It's making me a wreck. And with everything else, I don't need that. My mom & Dad need me more than anyone else right now. And I need to be with them, rather than on here trying to not lose contact with my friends. I have email addresses of the people that I have become very good friends with. I still have FaceBook, that so many of us are on. And I have found that in the last few months, most things that would seem offensive to people that don't have the same beliefs, have turned to each other there, not on BT.

And George needs me, we need each other right now...
So, I am off to pretend to be happy and function thru my day, trying to save what we still have.

"Lastly, what do you think WE ought to do now? How can we have a nice, civil, tolerant, informative, and welcoming BT, and leave the culture wars to Jerry Falwell and Rush Limbaugh? How can we get back to the time when our regular webcam posters helped the mods run things, and helped new users learn the ropes, because they knew the rules and had been around?" I don't know how to do the quote thing, but that's a quote from you, Seb.

Seb we are doing just that. But honestly, it's like you provoke things. To say Pegi and HH were giving you death threats was so WAAAAAY off the mark, as were your emails to Pegi calling her a terrorist and worse. The reference to Kool Aid was in response to your Religion poisions everything. It was trying to make light of a situation that you created.

If posters shouldn't talk about God(s), fine.

Donna, you have gone a little overboard with it. Sorry hon. Just keep it light and fun on the webcam thread is all the mods and everyone wants. I had to learn that, too.

There's this thing though...Easter, Christmas, Hannuuka,(sp) Passover, even Lent, (and I'm sure I'm leaving many out), are religious in origin. How do you take the religion out of religious occasions? We can all try, I suppose.

I keep remembering one Thanksgiving when your wife (and I have nothing against Mare), posted a picture of a naked man posing as a turkey, with EVERYTHING showing. Freddie quickly covered it up, painting a bikini on him. Then a month or so later, you got really ridiculous on me, berating me for saying the word crap. Inconsistent.

it's still a just a newsgroup...

entertaining as well

Seb, it looks like you start a new fire just when the old fire is dieing out.

We get your point!

I'm not a long time board member, but I must speak on this subject too. I have to agree with most comments that Seb is the one poisoning things and flaming things. The rest of us can ignore what we don't agree with and comment if and when we do. This is one of those times. It's not hateful, hurtful, shameful to speak "His" name. It would be to allow comments like Sebs. Join in or ignore. It's our choice. I would expect the Mods to strick out or illiminate Sebs remarks. They are hateful, hurtful and shameful.

"Religion poisons everything" Those are three very powerful words when put together! And, Seb, you can't take those words back - the damage is done! That was a personal attack on any religion!
Look back in the archives - years back - prayers, God, good thoughts, etc., etc. Look back at the 9/11 threads, the threads relating to some life & death situations - some offered prayers others did not but offered to be "there" if needed. There are thousands of posts. There was even a prayer chain started (not on BT) but it was mentioned on BT. Way back then - nothing was ever said about not talking about religion or prayers.
WE are getting along and WE are abiding by the rules...we were asked not to do any other chat (except WebCam related) on the WebCams and then asked not to do any "hidden" statements under the WebCam pictures -- done! We could, however, post WebCam pictures, gif's personal pictures and also chat on CC--done!
If there's a topic I'm not interested in I just don't read it or follow it - my choice.
There is enough conflict in the world today - I come to BT to escape - to be with my cyber friends and to chit-chat about whatever...to laugh, to cry, to offer my support. There is a very special bond between us and this is the place to share.
I don't get why you keep hashing this over & over...it's not important to me who believes in what "God" or even if they don't believe in "God" at all...their choice. What is important is that we are here together in a community to share and enjoy each other.
My choice

I am so sad by all this. BTers have done a lot of wonderful things over the years and I see this, I am very sad. There have been many things said over the years that I have been 'offended' by, but I move on, as I am sure I have said or posted something that offends someone else, which is why I do not worry about if someone writes something I do not like. If we all believed/liked or had the same opinions, the world would be pretty boring.

*SIGH* I am very sad.

First of all, if anyone is offended, don't read the post.. That having been said, I would like to get back the my promised slap from Kaarien..sounds like assault and battery to me!
Warn me before you arrive so I can be prepared!

Michael its not to offend You.
i know You are a great man.
let me surprise you.
and warm Yourself up because when i come i gone slap and hug You.surprise.LOL.
Happy Passover next month.
masseltof.i think there is a miss understanding
because of my language problems.Bye Michael.
hope to see you soon and thanks.
if i come i will tell You why.
i will never offend anyone,remember.

Michael only when someone hurts my loved ones and family or good friends i be really bad.
You did not.
i was kidding with You.no hard feelings.
i feel sad enough about this treat.

Seb, very brave, well done.

Seb... agree. E-mails are the appropriate place to give religious hugs to those in need.

Well if it's not obvious, Kristi is the crap stirrer who provoked me this time, on purpose I'm quite sure. That seems to be her thing.

Most of those religious holidays far predate Christianity. They are astronomical, not ecumenical.

AS far as the Kool Ade, I don't buy it. Pegi Sue went out of her way to specify Jim Jones Kool Ade, a lethal poison. (A VERY religious man, by the way, over 900 dead, hundreds of children included. Same God, the GOOD one.) "I have some jim jones kool ade for him." MUCH NASTIER THAN ANYTHING I POSTED. A personal, vicious, nasty thing to say, and to act like miss sweetness and light when called on it? Please, Poison Sue and the Cleopatras, buy a vowel. Buy ALL the vowels, and stop by the clue store on your way home.

Religion poisons everything. A short, simple statement of MY faith. Why is that any more or less offensive than "Our God is GOOD"? Weren't we all sharing? Or is it that you don't want others to share their faith, you want them to share YOUR faith.

Judy there is no such thing as a personal attack on an something that is not a person, ie, religion. I'm not trying to take my words back. You and Marge may be unable to wrap your brains around the concept that religion sharing might reach a level where it becomes offensive to those who do not share your beliefs. Marge makes it plain, she is all for speech she agrees with, and for removal of anything different. She probably thinks that IS free speech. That is what I find hateful, hurtful, and shameful.

I am only exercising the same rights others exercise to share their beliefs. If you don't want to hear a different opinion, then shut up already. Just because there is only one of me does not mean that you are right, or that the earth is flat, or only six thousand years old. I suspect there are a silent majority that do not want to get the flack they see me getting. If you cannot discuss your faith calmly, without personal attacks, maybe you aren't actually very familiar with it. If you feel you have to spread it everywhere you go, maybe you are not so secure in your faith as you think.

I'm just joining your club, kids, except that I won't wish you all dead.

Thanks Alex. Let Freedom Ring!

Michael, may you enjoy your Passover, God willing.




PS for Kathy

1. Kathy, I'm not sure how things work in your house, (please don't share) but my wife is an independent person, and does not clear her posts with me. I do not remember seeing his junk in the shot.


2. Yeah, I got a lot of grief for complaining about the use of the word crap. Too bad the religious folk couldn't have backed me up on that one, but no, they were the ones giving me crap, using the foul language, and posting inappropriate jokes. I know you think it was all about you Kathy, but I complained to many users about their use of crap. I get such nasty bruises when I say anything to you or Kobi, and you jump down my throat, I decided I didn't need that crap over crap. Crap on, Christian Soldiers! Everything can be craptastic now. And what is the result? Now it saeems it's AOK to post whatever words you like as long as you use an asterisk. So as I suspected, it's broken window theory. You don't stop the crap, soon you are up to your chin in it. Enjoy!

Jeez, Seb. The Easter Bunny, arisen from his den, or something like that, doesn't stop by to give you some chocolate and look what happens!

Jake

As posted by Martin, March 17, 2008:

We are currently in the process of updating our TOC (posting policies), and one of the new policies we will be implementing is "Profane, racial, or insulting or mean spirited language in any form or manner is simply not allowed here and this includes any sort of harassment or cyber bullying. Threats of any sort are grounds for immediate permanent suspension; there is never a reason to resort to personal attacks."

Please stop calling me names.

HAVE A NICE DAY!

"Religion is the opiate of the people." ...Karl Marx. "If you want to smoke it, go right ahead. If not, then don't bogart it... Jim McPeak

Hang in there, Pegi Sue. I'm also here if you need a shoulder or an ear.

Oh....the new baby went off with the professional framer with Juvie...will use a silk material on a border with a frame surrounding that. I think they will look great. I'll send some photos when they come "home" to me. Hugs. Carole

Wow, how many got insulted in that last post, Seb? lol

PS Seb, I personally don't belong to any organized religion, but I am a spiritual person - and I think, a NICE one! What I don't like is mean people.

And as for that turkey, oh yes, I think an anus is pretty much not family friendly. And Mare is a mod, too.

And please lay off Pegi Sue. She is indeed one of the kindest, sweetest, talented people I have ever had to pleasure to meet and know.

I think we should just agree that we shouldn't discuss our religions here (or lack of), and maybe just be careful in phrasing when support is needed, and all would be good.

I hope you are all having a good day. It's a nice one here. Just hoping the board gets back to normal.

OK Jim, I just googled, so now I get it;
" bogart
v. To smoke a cigarette or a joint in such a way as to leave the end wet with spit, thus making it something no one wants to toke on."

That was a bit over my head for a moment there.

Dude...you broke that policy wide open...Mods?

Oh, and Seb, Kristi is brand new here - just went to Bon and already has another trip booked. Let's not run her off. She didn't get the emails we all did, and really didn't know what was going on. Really didn't want to upset a newbie with all the drama, so, blame us, not her, she was just playing in what she thought was a game, not knowing how serious it was to you - or so I think.

Denise, did you miss the 60's and 70's? lol

Jim, thanks for the levity.

PegiSue, Kathy, and others who make up a list which would be too long post, I am happy to be able to call you my friends. I am sorry to see all this happening and I too feel insulted without even being involved. I too hope the board gets back to normal. Other threads continue to be what we all enjoy on BT - catch you there.

Kathy I was in the 60's and 70's, the memories are sometimes hidden in the low laying haze :-)

;Jeez, Seb. The Easter Bunny, arisen from his den, or something like that, doesn't stop by to give you some chocolate and look what happens!;

Now that's funny and about the only reply this post deserved.

Would one of the other MODS please close this down!

I am formally requesting that all hostilities cease and desist.

Free Hugs

Jerry well said, we are off to Tuffy for some R&R...

Count me IN on the hugs...

Only thing is, (and I wish you all a great Saturday night and weekend, and fun times and peace with all), we still don't have new rules.

I guess you all know that!

Honestly, I just hope it all gets better, and that we all understand the rules, and that the rules are clearly posted and are fair.

Peace, out! Sunset is beginning here, and good food time, as dinner is almost ready and smells GOOD!, AND it's the weekend, time to explore where we live even more, on foot, not cyber. NOT stay cooped up in a house living in cyberland. (That's why I love to meet the people here, to know them is to love them, in my book, to know them and to love them, and to meet them is the GREATEST, esp when we are going diving. :})

G'night! Though it's just sunset here.

Love you all.

The new posting policies as advertised by PegiSue will mean more subjective censorship. Good luck, Mods, would hate to be in your shoes. It will also mean less interesting posts and posters, and more chit chat and nonsense.

By the way, Marge Karalis, thanks for letting me know privately you disapprove of my opinion.

You were fanning the flames.

kaarien I was not offended at all..just amused. Last time I was slapped by a women, I imagine I deserved it!

So, Marge, in your opinion, a simple statement like my few (5) harmless words in support of someone who is being hammered here is "fanning the flames" and urges you to send private e-mails telling them how you disagree? Pathetic, that's what that is.

Moderators, I vote to close this thread..It is a day of peace world wide.. I suggest we sit back and enjoy that peace here on Bonaire Talk.. please....

We're off to enjoy this special day with family. Love and Peace to all of you.

Thank you, Marge. The same to you.

Jeez, Seb, put your big boy pants on and get over it already. I don't mean that to be mean or anything like that, but enough already. Let's all get back to what BT is all about here, folks. Time to move on positively. This thread makes me

You got my vote Freddie, please do it before my head falls off from shaking from side to side as I'm thinking.. "Not nice !! IDBI!!!"

This thread is now closed.