BonaireTalk Discussion Group
Moving to Bonaire: Electric Appliances
Bonaire Talk: Moving to Bonaire: Archives: Archives 2009: Electric Appliances
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Bomberg (BonaireTalker - Post #46) on Thursday, September 3, 2009 - 9:26 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Guys, I should add the following 2 questions to my list.

US purchased electric kettles for boiling water, any negative experience or should I just head to Walmart and add one to my growing pile?

US purchased electric surge protectors? Walmart or do I need to buy them locally?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil the Bee (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #114) on Thursday, September 3, 2009 - 9:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Electric kettles - unless you are looking for a sophisticated microprocessor controlled one - it won't care whether you have 50 or 60Hz, and probably won't care too much about 127V instead of 110V. It might not last quite as long as it would in US, but will probably boil the water faster!
Surge protectors - definitely check the input rating - if you guess there would be a 10% voltage fluctuation, then that could take you to about 140V input, pretty unlikely, you are more likely to have voltage dips here. Spikes of course can happen anywhere and nominal voltage shouldn't make much difference to that. I would just say don't buy a cheap surge protector and then plug a computer into it. You are better anyway getting a voltage regulator for a computer so again you need to make sure you have the right input and output ranges for your equipment. I bought regulators on the island without any problems

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3830) on Friday, September 4, 2009 - 9:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I use a line conditioner for my computers. So far, I have had no major problems.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Bomberg (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Friday, September 4, 2009 - 10:32 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Guys, all my surge protectors are capped at 125V, where can I pick up 140V ones. I am assuming I have to get them in Bonaire as locally they are all 115 +10%

I am not installing a computer and the stereo is on a line conditioner (actually a sine wave converter)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro-www.bonairebeachcondo.com (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2416) on Friday, September 4, 2009 - 1:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Peter..I suspect the automatic voltage regulators sold at Hi Tess are a bit better than the stock surge protectors.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Everett Preece (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Friday, September 4, 2009 - 1:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here a good reference by an EE from Curacao:
http://www.kropla.com/frequency.htm

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By superd (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #107) on Monday, September 7, 2009 - 3:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Peter
Think about it.... there is a simple solution for sensitive equipment like stereos big screen tvs and computers. Transform it to knock the voltage down and then put a high end protector on it like those from Monster. They are not cheap but considering the cost and time of replacing stuff very necessary. Remember that if you transform a power supply YOU LOOSE YOUR GROUND!!! Therefore it is vital to run a good ground past the transformer to the protector so it can dump the spike.

Consider also that most of the homes here actually have a 3 phase supply of 3 x 127 volts so comments about 220volts are really questionable because the line voltage is 2 x 127 or 254 volts.

The voltage "controllers" are actually pretty primitive and result in sine wave clipping and can produce some pretty funky effects and in fact NONE of my ups or conditioners will work with the out put from them.

fwiw I have fried coffe makers hairdryers vacuums
irons and just about any other small appliance. Personally I have found that one needs to use LARGE capacity transformers on any thing that you expect to last. You need to meter it because the voltage varies. I also DO NOT leave these things plugged in when we are not there they get HOT and I have seen these things melt. I have several friends here who have had computer power supplies blown even european 240 ones.

If you value it... protect it.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barton B (BonaireTalker - Post #100) on Monday, September 7, 2009 - 10:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

superd,

I'm sorry but I have to comment on your statement that 220 volts is actually 254 volts, IT IS NOT, it really is 220 V. why? Because, as you stated, the supply is 3 phase which means each phase differs from the other phase by 120 degrees, not the 180 degrees on sees in single phase systems. The line voltage is the voltage that occurs when looking at the difference in voltages that are occurring at any instant in time across two of the phases. For single phase systems your statement is correct, but not for three phase systems. Take a look at the graph below - it explains it better than words (sorry to let my geek flag fly:-) ).

line_voltage

Barton

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By superd (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:45 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Barton

Fascinating!! I brought down a new meter with me a true rms meter and it actually does read 219!! My other meter still reads over 250. The interesting question is whether each appliance actually "feels" the 220 or 250.

I can tell you the microwaves dont like it here. The ones we bought locally had no where near the power of ones brought down from the US and unless you transform those down to about 105 they dont last either.

Appreciate the input.... very interesting

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barton B (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #101) on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:12 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Superd,

I will assert that the appliance will "feel" the 220v. The fact that one of your meters reads 250 would make me question the quality of the meter. For example, I have two "cheapo" analog volt meters that cost less than $20 and when plugged into the SAME electrical outlet at the same time, one reads 115V and the other reads 135V :-). I would trust the reading of your true RMS meter.

Regarding the microwaves that burned out, were you plugging them directly into the wall without a transformer? I bought a small Sharp microwave on Bonaire (110v, 60Hz - appears to be a standard US spec model) and the store insisted that I use a transformer - haven't had a problem in about 5 months of use.

Regarding "heating power" of the microwave oven, I think that is very much a function of the quality of power provided to your house. For about 4 months I lived in a small apartment down by the NAPA store and during certain times of the day (particularly around dinner time) I could forget about using the microwave because it had no "heating power" and would sometimes "reset". Other times of the day it worked great.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By superd (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

B

Actually I thought fluke was not a cheapo ;)))

It occurs to me that with a 3phase system that the heavy load (motors or heat elements) are running 220 but in many US appliances the controls are run off one side of the 220 eg dryers the motors and controls are 110 the elements are 220.

So for example today the load is happy at 219 but the expensive bit is getting wacked at times with over 130!!

Very interesting the problems that can occur.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barton B (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #102) on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 12:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Superd,

Oops, didn't mean to imply that Fluke was a "cheapo" because it isn't...

You bring up a very interesting point that I hadn't thought of - where part of an appliance is using only one side.

I thought I was going to be OK in our new house here on Bonaire as I had "all house" transformers installed to knock the 127V down to about 112V and the 220V was fine - it never occurred to me that internal to ovens and dryers that they would only use one side for the controls (insert swear words here). Guess before installing the ovens, etc I'll be taking a look at the schematics and possibly doing a little disassembly/modification work...

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Truesdell (BonaireTalker - Post #34) on Monday, October 5, 2009 - 12:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have had good luck with app.that use both 50-60htz .I learned the hard way on a tv. Once I bought a vizio tv that was 50-60 hz and place it in our condo that is a rental it has been there for 2years with no problem.Also all low voltage app. phone computor alarms I used a radio shack low voltage convertor 5to 15volt ajustable that is 50-60htz approved.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CaribJim (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 12:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The following is specific information concerning protecting your appliances from electrical spikes -- which we learned the hard way!!
On our first trip to Bonaire, we blew out two battery chargers for our camera. After we purchased our unit at Sand Dollar, we blew out a brand new TV, a brand new microwave, and a brand new computer printer. This was caused by a combination of two electrical problems on Bonaire. First is the unique 127V -- 50Hz Bonaire electrical current. There are not many appliances that are actually made for this current. Most appliances that you can buy on Bonaire are made to the U. S. standard of 120V -- 60Hz. The other problem is the variability of the current (it is not a steady 127V -- 50Hz) and more importantly the extreme spikes that occur when the power generators shut down and then come back on again.
Fortunately, there are answers to these problems. We now have five transformers and four surge protectors in our unit. That’s about $675 worth of protective equipment, but well worth the headaches and cost that it will eliminate. Generally speaking, you can’t buy a refrigerator without them selling you an external transformer to go with it. So, most everybody has a transformer for their refrigerator whether they realize it or not. However, you should also have one for your microwave (unless it is 220V –50Hz which I highly recommend), one for your TV/stereo system, one for your computer/printer/camera battery charger, and another one for your bedroom TV. What does a transformer do? It changes the 127V, which really varies from 110V to 150V, to a fairly steady 120V. It does not change the 50Hz to 60Hz and it does not guarantee a spike won’t be damaging, but it makes a spike less likely to be damaging. Computers, TVs, Microwaves and Refrigerators will generally live through a spike that travels through a transformer but certainly not always. However, computer printers and battery chargers will generally get fried. So, we also have an automatic voltage regulator/surge protector that further regulates the voltage and will shut off the power to electronic stuff before a big spike can damage those items. It is the spikes from the power outages that apparently cause the biggest problems. Fortunately, since the fire to the power plant in March 2005, the new generators and related equipment seem to be a lot more reliable. I only recall one power outage during our last three month stay on the island, whereas in the past there were often one per week.
Is there a way to change the 50Hz to 60Hz? There probably is, but I don’t know the answer to that. Fortunately, most 60Hz appliances seem to work OK on 50Hz. However microwaves don’t have as much power and electric analog clocks run slower. Digital clocks seem to run correctly.
Where do you buy transformers and surge protectors and what do they cost? You can buy transformers at Kooyman and City Shop. At the time we did this, they cost approximately $55 US for each transformer system. After we fried our computer printer, we purchased an automatic voltage regulator/surge protector at City Shop which was also about $75 US. You can find more information about this surge protector at WWW.APC.COM. (These units are available to protect either 600 Watts or 1200 Watts of electronic stuff.)
When you fry a battery charger or a computer printer, there is no choice but to toss it and buy a new one. We took our TV and Microwave to Electronica Santana.
Since I originally wrote this, our microwave gave up again. After doing some research, we decided to get a 220 volt, 50 Hz microwave instead of the 110 Volt, 60Hz we had. This does not require a transformer but it does require a 220 volt line. So far this seems to work fine plugged directly into a 220 line and it cooks faster than our 110 did.

APC’s (Automatic Voltage Regulator or Line Purifier)
I have my four APC units set so the 110-120-127 switch is in the middle at 120. To get the island voltage down to 120, two of my transformers are set at 110 and two are set at 115. This is what was necessary in order for the APC units to light up the “input voltage is normal” light with these transformers. In other words, either the transformers are not exactly correct, or the APC units are not exactly correct. I chose to believe the APC units were correct and changed the transformers to correspond.
If you don’t use a transformer to bring the voltage down from 127 to 120 (or 110) then you well need to set the 110-120-127 APC switch to 127 which means that when the “input voltage is normal” light is on that your voltage will be between 105V to 135V. That doesn’t sound bad, but the auto-surge suppression cut-off will be quite high and your equipment will run hot.
If you do use a transformer to bring the voltage down from 127 to 120, then you will set the 110-120-127 switch to 120 and that means when the “input voltage is normal” light is on that your voltage will be between 100 to 125. That would seem to be a little on the low side, but apparently what the APC company is saying is that it is better to be below the requested setting (120) than it is to be above it. CaribJim

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freddie.....I want warm weather again... (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #13703) on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 1:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank You CaribJim for the very informing technical answer...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Truesdell(Bellafonte condos) (BonaireTalker - Post #71) on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 1:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Your largest factor is the 50hz. instead of the 127 volt. We have voltage in the us often of 130 not as consistent as we may think. The 50hz will make all 60hz app. run hot. I bought a Vizio tv 50hz -60hz. 3years ago and have no problems.My grill also I bought 50hz -60hz 3yrs. ago in my rental at the Bellafonte.

 


Visit: The Bonaire WebCams - Current Bonaire images and weather!
The Bonaire Insider - the latest tourism news about Bonaire
The Bonaire Information Site, InfoBonaire
Search Bonaire - Search top Bonaire Web sites


Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration