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Trip Reports: Follw-up to trouble with Buddy Dive
Bonaire Talk: Trip Reports: Archives: Archives 2000 to 2005: Archives - 2000-07-13 to 2001-05-18: Follw-up to trouble with Buddy Dive
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason L. Hames on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 6:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

This post is for all those interested in the whole story involving our trouble with Buddy Dive.
This post was originated by Scott Sima, I was on the trip with him when the incident occured. This was, to say the least, extremely disappointing. This could have been easily overlooked had it been dealt with properly and honestly. We gave the staff every opportunity to resolve this issue and unfortunetly that didn't happen. Hopefully we can all learn from this experience and ensure that the same type of thing doesn't happen to any of our fellow divers seeking to enjoy everything Bonaire has to offer. If you have any doubts about the endouvers you choose to explore while diving in Bonaire, make sure you ask the right questions and require nothing less than "honest" answers to those questions. I would not like to see any of you have an entire day, not to mention your last day of diving ruined at the last minute because the people you asked weren't completely genuine with the answers they were giving you. As previously stated, we are not upset so much about not being able to do what we set out to do, but that we were told that it was "no problem" when in fact it was a problem. This could all have been avoided if they would have just been honest with us from the beginning. Before I get started:

This incident was a personal experience with the Buddy Dive Resort dive shop and may not seem like a big deal to you. The way the issue was dealt with really chapped us and we have made an informed decision not to use Buddy Dive resort on future visits to the Bonaire Marine Park. You, of course, should select a resort based on your individual needs and expectations, independent of this experience.


The Story:

While visiting the activity center near the restaurant, we picked up a brochure for fishing charters and boat rentals. I called the place from our room and asked them about renting a boat for diving and snorkeling for the day. I was told that it was no problem as long as we went on our own, as they did not have a license to operate a dive operation. We could use the park buoys to tie up to for diving and snorkeling as long as we had paid our park fees (we had) and did not stay moored for long periods of time, keeping other boaters and dive operators from diving the site.

With this information, we booked the boat for the following day to dive and video several sites on Klein Bonaire and a couple on the island that were only accessible by boat. We had been diving some pretty intense profiles all week (3-4 per day, deep & long) and decided to stop after only one dive that day to allow for an extended surface interval and plenty of rest to reduce the risk of DCI/DCS. Our last diving day before travel was shaping up to be the best day yet, or so we thought.

While dropping off our empties at the air fill station that afternoon, I happened to mention our plans to one of the staff instructors who immediately showed concern. It was explained to us that it did not seem fair for the boat operator to rent us the boat, taking business away from the Buddy Dive charters ($60 USD per person) but we should go ahead and have a wonderful time anyway, it was “No Problem” and not our concern.

After we dropped of the tanks, I went back to my room to get a dive light that I had rented for a planned night dive that would not take place due to our new plans and headed for the dive shop to return it. When I got there, the instructor and another shop employee were on the phone with the brochure from the boat rental place in hand. I asked again, “Are you SURE this is no problem? We can find something else to do if it is. We really don’t want to cause trouble.” The response was the same “No, no. You go a head and have a great time, it’s NO PROBLEM”. We asked no less than three times.


The next morning, as we eagerly packed up our gear and camera equipment and got ready to pick up the boat when the phone rang, it was the guy from the boat rental place. He explained that he would not be able to rent us the boat after all. Someone had called him and threatened to stop sending him fishing charters and more business if he rented the boat to us for diving and he could not afford to lose the potential business. He apologized and hung up, leaving us with blank stares, in total disbelieve.

After a lengthy discussion, we decided to pick up some tanks and return to some of the shore sites we had visited earlier in the week to get some bottom time and video on our last day in “divers paradise” and deal with it when we returned.

I stopped by the dive shop when we returned for lunch that afternoon and left a message asking the instructor to give me a call. I was going to ask for an explanation before we made our final decision on what to do about the matter. I received a call from the Manager of the dive shop instead asking if there was a problem. I explained the whole situation to her, as I have explained it to you, and she assured me that she agreed that it was wrong to do, she would speak to the instructor and get back to us. The rest of the day past and we heard nothing.

The following morning, a non-diving day (24 hour fly time rule), was spent rinsing and packing our gear for the trip home. I ran into the instructor at the dive shop while returning my weights and received a very cold shoulder. I thought that the manager had said something to the individual about the way the matter was handled and now they had felt as uncomfortable being in the same room as I did and let it pass, expecting to hear from the manager at some point during the day to close the door on the subject.

Five O’clock came and we still had not heard a thing, so I called the shop and asked to speak to the manager again when I was told they had left for the day. I was really beginning to lose my patience at this point, so I called the front desk and asked to speak to the person in charge of the complex. That person informed us that they would locate the manager and get things taken care of, the manager of the dive shop showed up at our door a few moments later.

Just before the manager arrived, we received a call from the instructor involved in the incident. The instructor tried to tell us that they had been trying to contact us all day and claimed that they never called the person renting us the boat the day before. When I confronted them with the fact that I witnessed the call to the rental place the previous afternoon, I was told that I was wrong. They had only called the boat operator that morning to see if “we had picked up the boat and were having a good time with it” (Yeah, right). I rudely hung up, amazed that I had been so boldly lied to.

The manager ultimately agreed with us that what the instructor had done was not right, but claimed that we did not leave them enough time to do anything to rectify the situation and it was too late. Having reported the incident the previous day, we did not agree.


Now then, as I said earlier, this may not seem like that big of a deal to you. The way the issue was handled was very disappointing to us and the fact that it even happened at all makes me question the ethics of the dive operation in general.

But hey! Who cares about the ethics of a place that supplies the equipment and information that could save your life at 130 feet, right?


Good Diving and thanks for listening!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 7:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Jason,

Thanks for publicly posting your story of what happened - we were certainly curious about the details as were many others per their message posts.

It appears that one thing that may not have been mentioned to you and your friend during your situation is that there is an island rule on Bonaire, set by CURO (the Council of Underwater Resort Operators) - an organization consisting of virtually all of Bonaire's dive operators and started by Capt. Don Stewart some decades ago to help set standards for Bonaire dive operators and those serving the dive industry, which requires that the only commercial watercraft which can transport divers using a dive operator's equipment be those which are operated by that dive operator, or with that dive operator's equipment. A similar rule is that a dive operator may not fill a tank belonging to another dive operator.

Every commercial boat operator on Bonaire knows this rule about transport of divers, and, at least on the surface, honors it. The fishing charter company you used knew it too, yet still let you charter a boat from them knowing this was in violation of CURO policy, and then played dumb to you when caught "in the act" and tried to pass the buck back to the dive operator. There's where the real dishonesty is in this situation, in my not so humble opinion.

I don't know the exact origin of the rule, but seem to recall that it had something to do with liability issues stemming from a dive shop client using a dive shop's equipment (in particular a tank since that's quite noticable and trackable) on a boat not belonging to that dive shop could expose the dive shop to liability if something went wrong on the boat. Whether that's a valid argument or not, I can't say, but as an American I know for a fact that my fellow U.S. citizens are generally litigation happy...

Was this rule put into place to protect dive shops from competiton as well? I doubt it. A single tank boat dive from most dive operators on Bonaire is $25-35 (according to Buddy Dive's site it's $32), which is cheap compared to most other places I've dived in the last decade, and which means that dive shops aren't making a lot of money on individual boat dives (if they were then they wouldn't be encouraging their clients to shore dive!).

And, nothing prevents a client at one dive shop from diving with another dive shop during their stay on Bonaire - all one needs to do is fill out a different liability form, and for boat dives, use the tanks from the dive operator who owns the boat in question (dive operators won't let you dive on their boats with another dive operators tanks, as part of this agreed upon rule). On top of that, I've had visiting friends diving with a dive shop here (call it shop A) who wanted a particular kind of dive (Town Pier night dive) get referred to shop B by shop A because shop A wasn't providing the dive on the night in question. CURO's members tend to cooperate with each other and not really compete - the island's too small for that.

Anyhow, I figured I'd share that factual information and background in case it either wasn't explained or in case there was too much "heat of the moment" to hear it.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Baker on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 7:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry to butt in but does that rule also apply to a rented boat that you operate yourself when the operation you are renting it from does not supply tanks as was mentioned above. Since they are not a dive operation I do not see were the rule would come into place since shore diving is so widley offered. They could have boated to any shore accesable site and dove also and not cut into anyones profits either. Believe me I have to interest in this mater than just a simple question. And Jake if you don't know don't knock yourself trying, you do too much for us already.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Baker on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 7:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I mean I have no interest in this matter

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 8:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

[grin]

My understanding is that it applies to every commercially operated craft, so that would apply to a boat you rent as well, as renting is a commercial operation (and certainly the fishing charter operator is commercial too). Basically, if money or money-equivalents pass between the owner of the boat and the person using it, it's considered commercial.

As I'm reviewing this issue more in my brain, there's also a marine park component to this - namely something along the lines that only licensed dive operators can transport divers commercially in Bonaire Marine Park. I remember this because when we leased our boat to a local dive operation some time ago, that dive operation had to notify the marine park that they were now using our boat for commercial dive operations - and that applied to just a single use or repeated use as well. If that notification didn't occur, the dive operator and boat owner could get cited (and in trouble - which is why I remembered this - I didn't want to get into trouble!).

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason L. Hames on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 8:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

This was sort of explained to us "after the fact", however, we were not chartering this boat for a dive trip through the establishment renting us the boat. The only thing from buddy's that we were to be taking with us would be the tanks themselves. Apparently it is okay to tie off to the different sites and do all the snorkleing we want. We were told that if you had a privately owned boat, there would be nothing stopping you from diving the different sites around Bonaire. The use of the boat was to get us to certain areas that are inaccesible by car. All week we had seen people tied up to sites that were not with dive operators diving from them. How is that any differen't that what we had planned to do, other than they possibly own the boats they were using. I feel confident that had we rented the boat and not said a word to anyone at Buddy's of our intentions of diving from it, this issue would never have arisen. we were excited about being able to dive the Klein Bonaire sites at our leisure, not unlike the dive and drive package and we told one of the dive masters about it. As far as I can tell, we were not breaking any laws. The fact of the matter is, if it was to be a problem, they should have told us straight away and that would have cleared everything up. This becomes a question of ethics on the part of the people involved. When we confronted them with their actions, they first tried to deny any invlovement and proceeded to what seemed like avoid us until about 8 hours before we were supposed to leave and that just isn't right. It all boils down to the integrity of the people involved, which in my opinion there was a lack of.
The manager told us that had she known about it sooner, she might have been able to do something, but she DID know about it sooner and waited until the last minute to address with us. In fact, had we not contacted the property manager the night before we were to leave, we would have left and they would have avoided the whole situation completely. And for that, I think we have every right to be a little bitter.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 8:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I can't address what did or didn't happen at Buddy Dive because I wasn't there, but in terms of your other question, private boats (like mine when I use it for myself and friends) can tie up and at any dive site, and I and my friends can dive at those sites from my boat - but we also have our own tanks, and I won't take dive shop tanks on my boat for private/friend dives because I know it's against the rules. That's the difference - you had Buddy Dive's tanks with you. Had they been your own tanks that you owned and not ones that belong to a dive shop, it would not have been a problem. May seem like a minor nuancet, but as I said, it's a widely known rule on Bonaire.

Could you have gotten away with chartering a boat and using a dive shop's tanks on that boat if you hadn't mentioned you were going to do this to someone from a dive shop? Quite possibly. Doesn't mean that it would have been right though.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason L. Hames on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 11:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I agree that breaking the rules would not be the right thing to do, and I am in no way suggesting that we would have knowingly broken the rules. I guess, looking back, we both wish that this would have been handled differently. My only hope is that perhaps the dive operation will post something pertaining to diving with the operations equipment, tanks or whatever the case so that this situation does not happen to anyone else. Jake, thank you for your input on the matter. I will definetly ask all the right questions so I am well informed the next time as to what is and is not allowed. I would also like to add that we did have a fantastic time and the diving was more than I could have hoped for. This did not ruin our entire trip by any means and Bonaire would be at the top of my list of places to return to in the future, as well as the street cam :)
-Jason

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 9:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Seems like Jake has answered all the questions and hopefully put it too rest. The issue here is not so much the incident, but the way it originally was tossed out on a public newsgroup without any explanation. That is the worst form of negative publicity any operator can suffer, inuendo and veiled comments. No matter how wrong either party was is not the poibt. I am sure all of us will agree that Buddy Dive's reputation for a first class operation is still intact.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Hirsh on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 9:33 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Amen !!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Paugoulatos on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 9:49 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake..If you took some friends on your boat with tanks from a local dive shop and you are not a commercial operation taking a fee for the diving trip would this be not allowed?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 10:00 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

That would be in a gray zone as I understand the rules, since I would not be a commercial operation, but it would be a dive shop's tanks.

To be safe when this this type of potential situation has arisen in the past, I have checked with the dive shop manager whose tanks would be involved to see if it would be okay to do this with my friends and the dive shop's tank. When permission has not been given (which has also happened), I have let my friends use my tanks instead (for no fee, of course). In some cases permission was given as well. Depends on the situation, but I figured I had better ask first to make sure there were no misunderstandings or accusations (or problems for my friends as well!)

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Paugoulatos on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 10:07 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Interesting...But if you loaded those tanks from a dive shop into your personally owned car and drove to a dive site that would be within the rules..

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Baker on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 10:10 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Or if you rented a truck from someone other than buddy dive and still used thier tanks and drove to a dive site that would be ok too then...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 12:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

True. The difference likely lies in logistics (less boats vs. lots of vehicles) and what Bonaire is known for (shore diving vs. charter boat diving), but I don't know. I just know what rules I can get in trouble breaking :-)

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Baker on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 12:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake trust me I agree with you on that one it's just sometimes rules seem to appear differently when looked at at different angles. Semantics I guess. Thanks for the input.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas brossard on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 2:02 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm happy this has been brought out into the open & (hopefully) resolved. I do understand Buddy's point (and I agree that Buddy's reputation preceeds it) but in fairness to the parties involved, it sounds as if they're more upset with the deception & un-truths they claim was involved. And if there is any truth to that, Buddy Dive needs to address their customer service standards. I think honesty is the best policy, all the time, which (agreeing with Michael) also means fair & full disclosure of the criticism...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Niki Harris on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 2:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I appreciate the airing of this story too. We Americans especially, and many others, are very independent-minded and creative, and I can imagine others getting the idea to make a personal, custom dive trip by rental boat. Certainly not meaning to hurt businesses, but because it would be a fun experience. The regulations concerning this just need to be clear, and this discussion might help that, if the occasion arises again.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Paugoulatos on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 4:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm sure it also has to do with the one boat, one
mooring rule: early bird gets the site. I'm sure the dive boats somewhat know who's diving where by boat and that helps them not to have to troll for a dive spot..

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carol at Buddy Dive on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 5:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Now that we have all had a chance to review Scott’s posting, I would like to clarify a few things. First, I will freely admit that through certain actions and in some cases, inaction’s, we did not handle the situation as well as it could have been handled. The Dive Operations Manager conveyed the same message to Scott and Jason before they departed. But what I will not accept is the accusations indicating there were any actions whatsoever on the part of our staff that were malicious or unethical, particularly when woven into a story that is fraught with fallacies. Before I offer any further comments on behalf of Buddy Dive, I would like to make it clear that the representations regarding the Charter Boat company’s actions were grossly misquoted, and could have caused this company not only damage to their reputation but to the security of their commercial license as well. They are completely innocent of any implied wrongdoing.

On to the story: When our dive instructor learned of Scott’s plans, she immediately told him that she did not think he was allowed to dive from a rented boat. But unfortunately, there was no follow up made to the comment in a timely manner. Had the instructor asked the Dive Operations Manager for clarification on “the rules”, we could have informed Scott right away that as CURO Members, we could not provide him with tanks to be used on a boat that was being rented or chartered by a company that did not have a dive operators license. He would have been disappointed, but at least informed.

Instead, nothing was done on our part until a call was placed to the Charter Company at 11:47 a.m. (verified by the computerized telephone log we have of the call) on the same day Scott and Jason were scheduled to be out on the boat – not the evening before as they stated. After identifying herself, the instructor inquired as to whether the company rented out boats for diving. The call was made in an effort to resolve her own confusion about what was allowed and not allowed. Not as part of some sleuthing act, as was also implied. She never denied to Scott or Jason that she made the call, but they refused to believe she had made the call on the afternoon of the planned trip, and not on the evening before.

I did speak with Cees van der Bijl, owner of the Charter Company in question, who was able to explain what prompted the timing of their coincidental, but independently initiated, cancellation call. His son had accepted the reservation for renting the boat, and did in fact initially indicate he thought it could be used for diving. He knew he could not charter a boat to divers, but had never been asked before about renting a boat for that purpose. So he spoke to his father Cees about the reservation later that night, and Cees told him that renting for the purposes of diving was not allowed either. (That there is a great deal of confusion out there about what is and isn’t allowed has become very evident based on all the postings!) But to be clear on their behalf, the reservation had been accepted in good faith and not in an attempt to circumvent any regulations. Cees called Jason and Scott at 8:00 a.m. the next morning to inform them they could not use the boat for diving, and apologized for the misunderstanding. Cees also firmly denies that either he or his son received any threatening phone calls from Buddy Dive. If anyone feels the need to confirm this, Cees said you should feel free to send him an e-mail at Bgsfishing@bonairenet.com But anyone who really knows Bonaire, and the cooperative spirit that exists among the businesses here, most likely already recognized this quotation as being false.

Numerous attempts were made by both the dive instructor and the Dive Operations Manager to reach Scott and Jason over the next day and a half. But as they were not sitting in their room waiting for the phone to ring, a connection was not made. In hindsight, we probably should have left a note so they knew we had tried to reach them. Instead, the calls continued to be made to the room, but went unanswered. When the Dive Operations Manager did finally connect with them, she was unable to make any apologies that were considered acceptable, despite her best efforts.

Did we fall short on the service delivery in this instance? Absolutely, and with great apologies. Despite our best efforts, we are all going to err upon occasion. But not in any way that warranted the posting of such a vindictive and grossly inaccurate report.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Hirsh on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 6:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you Carol for the "rest of the story". As with all disputes it appears there are no less than 3 sides. This being said I would hope the assembled horde has learned a little. I refer to my initial statement about posting a broad condemation without supporting documentation.

So now we have the parties statements and what do we have, hurt feelings and an unnecessary attempt to sully the reputation of one of Bonaire's premier dive operations. Could Buddy Dive have done more?, yep even Carol agrees with that. I think if Scott had read some of the threads about being on vacation, he might not have taken offense at not hearing immediately back from the management. True, your vacation was drawing to a close but you were in the islands Mon !! these things takes time.

So Scott and Jason, Carol has offered the apologies of Buddy Dive, are guyz gentlemen enough to acknowledge nobody is completely right and therefore nobody is completely wrong??

And can't we just get back to watching THE VISITORS AND FISH!!!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Sima on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 9:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We have obvious differences in the accounts of this situation. I, for one, am growing tired of dealing with it. I do have a life.

I have stated several times that the rest of our time at Buddy Dive was very enjoyable.

May I suggest; Add this policy to your dive briefing, so everyone knows up-front that this is not allowed. I am a strong advocate of following the rules, especially when diving.

With that said, It's time for us to go our way, Buddy Dive to go their way and the rest of you to return to your lifes.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Meaker on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 2:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm sorry that I'm posting *well* after
the discussion has taken place, but I didn't
read it until now.

This whole incident bothers me a
little. I certainly understand why rules need
to be made to protect the environmnet. I'm a
little confused about how some of the rules
cited do that.

I would *love* to be able to take a
boat out to explore the waters of Bonaire.
I've been "messing around in boats" for more
than 40 years and really believe that I can
operate a small boat safely and with proper
respect for the environmnet.

So if that is true, why can't I
charter a boat and go diving?

I suppose that I could charter the
boat and explore and go freediving. Then if I
found an interesting spot I could mark it and
return in my rental car and do a shore dive.
But to tell the truth, if I'm on vacation and
that is probably *way* too complex.

So if I want to go exploring, I guess
that I should stay in friendlier waters with
fewer silly rules.

--
john.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 10:02 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

John,
First of all clarification.. I am NOT the Jason in this exchange..

Onward
I think you missed the entire point of the discussion. I don't think that you will find friendlier waters or simplier rules.. Not to rehash but couple of key points:

Business licenses are issued in the NA for specific purposes.. for example just because a dive operator has boats and a license to run these boats for diving doesn't mean you cna fish off them.. and the reverse applies..

When doing business with a dive operation you have several different levels you can do it with.. Air Fills, tank rentals, beach diving, full dive pacakge. A person who pays for less of a service say tank rental, certainily shouldn't expect all of the benifits of a full package (showers, gear storage, gear rinse, resort access.. etc.)

I have a house on island and tanks. so I am usually buying air fills. I certainly only use access at resorts where I have permission and even then I am careful not to interfer with paying guests.

I too have a tad of experience with boats, but knowledege of the maritime does not necessarily extend to landfall... For example you talk about chartering for a boat finding a site, marking it and go back shore diving.. I am sure that if you did so you would use the mooring on a non-interfernec bases and as far as the marking I am curious since anchoring (which a mark would require) is confined to local population engaged in fishing by traditional methods.

Anyway for what its worth, I have a house, I pay taxes but I still look upon my self as a guest and I have never found the "silly" rules to encumber my diving freedom or enjoyment. Honest truth is the only time I am on a boat dive is for special occasions or when friends are visiting who want to go to Klein. Frankly I find the Bonarian laws a lot less silly then ones involving limited access and dragging water skier marks, excuse me, dive flags around..


a different jason

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Meaker on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 12:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I almost think that this should be a new
topic, but I'm keeping it here for the
history and context.

I don't believe that I missed the point of the
discussion. It told the story of a *big*
misunderstanding by several people. These
things happen and people sometimes get upset.

What bothered me was the rules that were so
complex that even residents who try to follow
them have trouble understanding what they
mean. I believe that rules, especially rules
for tourists, should be simple and easy to
understand. After all, tourists will only be
on the island for a short while.


You said in part, "For example you talk about
chartering for a boat finding a site, marking
it and go back shore diving.. I am sure that
if you did so you would use the mooring on a
non-interfernec bases and as far as the
marking I am curious since anchoring (which a
mark would require) is confined to local
population engaged in fishing by traditional
methods."

First, let me say I have a handheld GPS
reciever and I can mark a site with it and not
harm the environment. I can only hope that a
handheld GPS is legal ;-)

The rather intricate scenario that I put forth
was a way to do what I want within (my
understanding) of the rules. As I said, it's
way to complex to be practical for a tourist.

Anyhow, I'll be down there for the first week
in July and do some diving and hope to stay
within the rules. I'm sure I'll enjoy myself
and have a wonderful time.

--
john.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linda Richter - NetTech on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 12:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

One thing - anchoring is not restricted to locals. It is restricted to the size of the boat and type of anchor.

1. Boats over 3m (12ft) may anchor in only one area between Customs Pier and Karel's Beach Bar AND require written permission of the Harbour Master.
(note: this is used usually for very large yachts or when the public moorings are full)

2. Boats less than 3m (12ft) may anchor, but are required to use a stone anchor.
(note: This is why it appears to be restricted to locals fishing.)

The Bonaire Marine Park provides a brochure called "Boating Regulations" which gives the info about what the different color moorings mean, speeds, etc. Also in this same brochure, it does mention the bit about transporting divers and using a local dive operation.

http://www.bmp.org/html/boating_regulations.html

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 2:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

John,
I thank Linda for clarification on the anchoring /boating regulations and I am happy to see that you were planning to 'mark' through GPS.. (also as an aside I am impressed with the accuracy for your hand held unit)

Again,I want to emphasize that I don't find the rules on Bonaire that complex, but then again I kind of like things simple. IF I want to go for a boat dive, I go to a dive boat operation. I get not only the boat and tanks but I get the expertise and local knowledge of the staff. On its worse days, the boats here are no where as crowded as other destinations. If I want more flexibility less crowd, beach diving suits me just right. I have dove from non-dive boats professionally and for vacation and believe me that's its more work then I like on a vacation.

In the instance discussed that started this thread I fully believe that the divers made it more complex then it had to be. The mention of the dollar figure (which is a tad high in my experience) makes me think that it was an attempt to save some $$$ and perhaps get a little more private setting. Again one of personal preferences. Once again I have always fealt that I have always got good value for dollars spend.. I do U/W photgraphy and the knowledge of a local guide has got me to what I am looking for. I have not so great that I can spot/scout better then someone who dives the waters everyday.

My bottom line, and the point I am trying to make, remains the same... I personally (and my friends and customers) don't find the "rules' that complex or silly. The dive operators briefings provide more the adequate knowledge of the rules for diving within the marine park.

I am sure you will enjoy your july visit..


jason

PS.. no one has objected to my GPS :)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 2:20 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Linda. better cheeck your information. If I am not mistaken there is no longer any anchoring anywhere! (except the stone achors the fisherman use)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linda Richter - NetTech on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 2:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'll check with the Marine Park and the Harbour Master and get back to you all.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Thursday, April 26, 2001 - 11:58 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I checked. NO Anchoring anywhere!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason on Thursday, April 26, 2001 - 3:02 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Michael,
Thanks.. I know my memory is going but I distinctly remember this topic coming up when I was chatting with some of the operators last week

Jason

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Meaker on Thursday, April 26, 2001 - 4:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Linda, the www.bmp.org is a wonderful resource
and I appreciate that you posted it. And
thanks for maintaining this Web page. It is
one of the reasons we chose Bonaire for our
summer trip.

About those stone anchors, it seems to me that
they would be much less environmentally
friendly than other kinds of anchors. Unless
they are extremely heavy it seems like they
would have a tendency to drag on the bottom
and ruin sensitive seabed.

--
john.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason on Friday, April 27, 2001 - 8:46 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

John,
Remember the type of boat you are talking about.. essentially dingy class.. Also consider modern anchors. With exception of fisherman's hook and mushroom, the vast majority of common modern anchors (Danforth, CQR, Bruce) are variants on a 'plow' design.. they must drag and dig to set, and in case of the Bruce, redrag and reset multiple times (oooppsss personal bias exposed :)

I admit there is a potential for some 'environmental' damage from a stone anchor, but its use is limited to natives engaged in small craft traditional fishing. This is not dis-similar from exceptions made in Alaska and Canada for native whaling and sealing. If we are going to worry about the damage from stone anchors from a small fishing community we might want to move ahead and look into tackling those pesky Parrott fish down there munching away on the coral heads all day..:)


have a great trip..


jason

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linda Richter - NetTech on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 11:06 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The Manager of the Marine park has responsed that this is still anchoring allowed between Karel's and the Customs Pier with the written permission of the Harbour Master. Whether or not the Harbour Master gives permission is another story. The area is easily within sight to prevent abuse.

There is quite a bit of boat traffic including the harbor tugs, cruise ships, fruit boats, cargo ships, etc that anchoring there would not be one's most ideal location in any case.

 


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