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Trip Reports: Disturbing trend
Bonaire Talk: Trip Reports: Archives: Archives 2000 to 2005: Archives - 2001-11-30 to 2002-09-25: Disturbing trend
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Fox on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 8:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I read this site religiously not only for all of the good information I can learn about Bonaire, but also to keep a connection with the island when I am not there. What I have noticed in reading the trip reports lately is that many of them list a theft or some other criminal activity. Three of the last four reports I read have included something, including one from Terry Miller who related that the person entered their condo while they were sleeping in it!

I realize that we are only a small sample of all of the trips taken to Bonaire in a given year, but the increase in reporting disturbs me. I have been to many dangerous parts of the world, Buenos Aires, Rio, and Cairo come to mind. the difference with those places is that you know going in that they are dangerous. I would hate to see Bonaire go this route. There are many places to dive in the world that are at least as nice and much easier to get to. An undeterred rise in crime or the allowing of such activity to go on will result in a backlash in the future. I am bringing my boys to Bonaire for their first diving trip in April. You can be sure that I will be very careful now with what I am reading as of late.

If this continues it will come to no good end with the injury of a tourist or an islander and I would hate to see either of those happen. Bonaire should kep an eye on this or people will vote with their feet and that will hurt everyone.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Smith on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 9:40 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

When I first posted last week about the theft question I felt it might be a lot of hype and wanted to get more info. Also, at that time I was determined not to let a few bad folks keep me from enjoying my first vacation in 5 years. Now that I have read the follow up I wish I could cancel my April trip but I would loose my money. I have no desire to have to keep a watchful eye open while I am trying to sleep on my vacation. I also do not want to worry every time I park the rental vehicle.

I had decided that I would really like Bonaire based on the postings on this group and actually was going to book another trip for September. I have now decided to go to Bonaire and check it out before I book early to save cash. I will certainly opt for another location if I feel unsafe or inconvenienced while I am there in April.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Endrizzi on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 5:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Rick, I have made three trips to Bonaire over the past 5 years and plan to make another one this year. I have had things stolen from my car at least once on every trip. I learned (the hard way)not to leave cash in the car. Stores on the island don't blink an eye when you pay with wet money, so I now carry any cash with me on the dive if I need to stop and buy something on the way home. The one thing that I hated to lose on the last trip was disposable camera that had only 4 exposures left on it. The only other things I leave in the car are water, snacks towel and clothes (and a disposable camera). They don't usually steel clothes. I have lost some snacks.
I have never had anyone break into a room. I do leave all money and passports in a wall safe. I have insurance on all my dive gear and photo equipment.
Bonaire is still my favorite place to dive. I think you will glad that you did not cancel your trip. Just be careful and don't leave stuff in the car that you don't want to loose. Only take what you need for the next dive.
BTW every time we had theft from the car was at a site where the car was along the road or easily visible from teh road. Our cars were never broken into when we wer parked at a site where the car was not visible from the road. Some times there are a couple of people in our group that are not going to dive and they come along to stay at the car.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Botsford on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 6:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Rick, we have been four times, the only things we have ever lost was 1) my appendix-long story and 2) a roll of film we gave to rite aid in the US of A.

Common sense will go a long way, you will enjoy the 'bonaire experience' much more than diving at Mt. Storm, West-by-God Virginia.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 6:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Oh Dean..yes, the famous appendix..how is the scar coming along..well, it's a nice place for it to burst anyway..and u r ok..so that is good.

I dare not comment too much but...I think the issues in Bonaire are the same as in any part of the world but it is an island of 15,000 people and it is paradise for those tourists who save and save to have a "perfect" vacation. When theft occurs it is a personal violation. Occassional petty crime is to be expected. What I wonder is is there a rise in crime or is it the same as years back?

Thinking positive

Annie
Cape Cod

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gail Thomas on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 8:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Rick,
We just got back from Bonaire in February (this being our 10th year to stay in Bonaire) and the best advice as stated earlier is just use common sense. We usually stay at apartments, this year at Lagoen Hills which was great, and we've never had any problems with anyone breaking into our rooms...we have lost an item or two at the dive sites while we were diving, but nothing we couldn't do without. We also noticed this year when we came up from our dives, once on Ole Blue and at Nukove, the beach security was there just waiting for us to return from our dives.

Have a great time...wish we were going back.

Bubbles to ya'
Gail

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Smith on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 8:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks gang, I feel much better. I guess if I had taken more vacations in the past five or so years I wouldn't be so uptight. But I am changing my ways. Notice I was talking about another trip in September. Two vacations in one year, already an addict.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde Lee on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 9:30 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

ditto to annie...dean...so you are Mr. Appendixless! I remember reading the trip report many moons ago...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bea and Marvin Jones on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 6:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We've been about 5 times in the last 6-7 years and have never had any problems - but have been careful. The same precautions that we were given in Kauai years ago - leave nothing in the car and on the north shore of Kauai it was suggested to leave the car unlocked so they wouldn't break windows to get in.

So, when we are diving - we leave nothing in the truck. If we are taking pictures with the digital camera - we don't dive on that trip.

And, we go back in May!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Flook on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:57 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just back today. Flew home last night from a 12 day stint.

This was our 6th trip over a 10 year period.

We did 15 shore dives, from Red Slave to BOPEC. Now have over 100 shore dives on Bonaire. We have yet to have a single theft encounter in Bonaire.

Theft does happen. However we obide by the simple rules that are discussed herein so often. Do not lock the car, do not leave anything of value in the car. We always have a cooler, money, charge card(s), and sunglasses with us. We hide the cooler and the sunglasses, and we take the money & charge card(s) on the dive with us.

I have a habit of checking out other cars parked at the shore dive site which we dive to see if they too do as we do. I quite often see locked cars with stuff which looks valubale on the front seat in plain veiw. Often I also see a sticker on the dash board in those locked cars which reads something like "Help prevent theft, do not lock your car, or leave valuables in the car while shore diving". (You can lead a horse to water ....)

At one remote dive site we saw a truck which was locked, with the windows rolled up and stuff in plain view. This site was one which is not known by everyone due to deepth. So we figured the people must know something about shore diving in Bonaire, but yet no clue about theft. We then saw the owners during our dive. They were two deep divers with rebreathers, three full size tanks each, more guages than I could count, and stuff draging on the ocean floor(I hoped that they did not drag their stuff across coral). I could not help but think, how could these tech divers know so much about diving yet have no clue about shore diving & locked cars. I would have waited for them to surface so I could quize them, but it looked to me like they might not come up for about two days.

Anyway be carefull, and enjoy.

We had a great trip, and will return again and again.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Brown on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 1:31 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

In another thread, I posted my concerns about a recent break-in at the condos we'll be staying at - Bonaire Beach Villas. I wrote of my concerns to the caretaker, and received back a very kind and reassuring message. She noted that this is the first break-in there since she's been caretaker (almost a year). She mentioned that in this case, it was less of a break-in and more of a walk-in (the balcony doors had been left open).

I certainly feel from the messages I've read on BT that there is a crime problem, and much more could be done to help mitigate it. However, I am also reassurred that while break-ins do happen, they are relatively infrequent, and hopefully we will not be one of the unlucky ones.

Ken

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob & Kobi on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 9:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Dean,

Ohhh the windy road to Mt. Storm! Husband loves it; my tummy hates it! We make that jaunt often from our home in Virginia. We're 20 miles from the border but we surely don't boast or advertise it AT ALL :)

We have been to Bonaire each and every year for the past 8 years; soon to be 9 years as of May 4th. YIPEE! Anyhoo, we have never had anything stolen from us anywhere on the island. We may have gotten shafted on the guilder/dollar conversion a time or two but a minor pooch screw isn't bad. Pfff.....a bad day on Bonaire is better than a good day at work!

We do practice common sense and leave the windows rolled down in the vehicle while off site diving. No bait will keep the flies away I guess :) Thanks for mentioning Mt. Storm......NOT!!! My husband is chomping at the bit to get over there soon and check the conditions of that heated pool.

Safe diving!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 9:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I hope everyone who has been ripped off literaly or figuratively will file an e-mail report with Marion at the Bonaire Tourist Association.

Also of interest (at least to me) is the fact that none of the owners of tourist lodging is required to be a member. Of course, most hotels/resorts/etc are. But you might be surprised to see which ones are not.

I no longer will do business with any establishment that is not affiliated with the Bonaire bureau of tourism. I hope others will feel the same way. Vote with your wallets.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 7:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

There i is no such orgainization as the Bonaire bureau of tourism. Pehhaps you mean BONHATA, which represents a portion of the properties, while the rest belong to BMG, an equally responsible grouup (Plaza, Belmar, etc are members as is AB carental.) Your semtimments, Mimi, while admirable, are a bit misdirected. Aa for TCB, (tourism Corp. Bonaire) they represent all the ligitimate tourism related businesses on the island

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 9:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

michael - thanks for clarifying this. I had no idea that 3 separate tourism organizations existed. why so many on such a small island? what is the function of each one? Why don't they consolidate their efforts?
Please help me understand this network and how they interface with each other.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Mimi - here goes:

TCB - Tourism Corporation Bonaire - the Government owned tourist board for the island. Represents the island's tourism interests as the TCB staff see fit (and can manage based on funding government provides). Has no members. Web site is at http://www.infobonaire.com (which we, NetTech, own and maintain in cooperation with TCB).

BONHATA - Bonaire Hotel & Tourism Association - private sector tourism organization, funded by its members who pay an annual fee to be members. Represents about 60-70% of the tourism related businesses on island. Some tourism businesses don't belong, either due to apathy or cost, or because they are BHG members (see below). http://www.bonhata.org (in process of being overhauled)

BHG - Bonaire Hospitality Group - Started a couple of years ago when a few BONHATA members (most predominantly Plaza) decided that their interests and financial expenditures would be better applied in ways other than BONHATA was doing. Membership is restricted to only those businesses which other BHG members approve. http://www.BonaireHospitality.com

All three will work together to address various issues at times, including co-marketing, dealing with crime, etc. All three also have their own individual agendas at times too.

Hope that helps.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 1:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Seems to me that sometimes when there are "too many" organizations looking after the interests at hand that the "interests" do not truly get looked after...make any sense? How has it been working out on Bonaire? I am not familiar with the workings of such areas, so I certainly am not qualified to analyze the organizations and/or how they function. Just seems very interesting, indeed! Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 5:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Almost all the tourism destinations have lots of different organizations. In addition to the ones Jake mentioned, we have BRA, the Bonaire Rest. Association, CURO, council of underwater resort operators, a taxi driver association, a snack bar association and I am sure I missed a few...(my apologies) So, for what it is worth, we are not any different here than elswhere and it does seem to work for us most of the time.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 7:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

jake & Michael-
I am interested in learning more about why some lodgings do not belong to either BOHATA or BHG. What recourse would a tourist have in such a facility, should a problem arise?
Second, what were the issues that caused the need for a second group to be formed?
Third, some resorts belong to both groups. Why?
Fourth, since BHG is exclusionary, do members have to meet a higher or different standard than BOHATA membership, (which appears to be open to anyone who has the money to join)?
Fifth, do any of the 3 groups have a vested interest in protecting tourists (as opposed to protecting tourism)?
thanks in advance for the info.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 7:57 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake..I will defer to you...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Gee, thanks Michael...

Mimi,

- Some places don't belong to BONHATA because they either don't feel the membership fee (NAFl 750 up to many thousands of guilders) is worth the return, or because they believe that belonging to any association their competitors are part of is a scary proposition. Undoubtedly there are many other reasons.

- No company is a member of both BONHATA and BHG. TCB has no members. However some restaurants may be members of BONHATA and the Bonaire Restaurant Association, for example. Why? Because they apparently feel that both associations have something to offer.

- I do not know how BHG's standards (whatever they may be) differ from BONHATA's (whatever they may be).

- As far as I know, none of the three tourism organizations provides any guarantees or recourse for disgruntled (whether rightfully or wrongfully) clients of Bonaire tourism businesses, whether such are members of an association or not. Any issues a client/tourist has with a business have to be brought up by that client with that business at this point. Sending copies of complaints or praise to other tourism associations/organizations doesn't hurt, but it also may not further a position either way.

- The split between BONHATA and the companies which eventually became part of BHG was the result of disagreement about how monies raised from members should be raised and how such monies should be spent. From what I see now, BHG and BONHATA definitely market themselves differently now.

- As far as the three groups having an interest in protecting tourists vs. protecting tourism - too fine a nuance for me, Mimi. As all three organization represent entities who require tourism for long term survival, there's certainly interest. The question that should be asked is: Do these organizations have financial, political, and legal werewithal to support what they believe should be done to protect tourists and tourism? My guess at an answer to that question would be: Not really. See all my other posts on the Curacao governance issue to see why.

I hope that helps.

I should mention - in response to one of your questions too, that Linda & I, as owners of a business (NetTech) which supports tourism businesses on the island, and which does not belong to any tourism associations, do not want to be forced to join any organizations either. We provide Web support and advice/commentary to TCB, BONHATA, and BHG, but are not members of BONHATA and BHG. Why? Because we want to remain independent, and because we like doing things our own way :-)

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 1:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

thanks, jake. the reason i asked so many questions was I hoped I might find one tourist organization that espoused the philosophy "the buck stops here." Instead, I found there is no "here" there. no more questions.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 7:55 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

see Jake, I told you you could do it! Mimi, your propose an interesting scenario. Does the US have a buck stopper? Do chambers of commerce and BBB's function in that realm. BTW...I am not a member of any tourism association either. I do lend support to tbe rest. association and lots of NGO's involved in youth programs. (The Rest Assoc. just finished an ambtious program promonting a training student chefs at the high school. Had the best goat stew there last night!)
I firmly believe one of the keys is to train the youth to be aware of how tourism is their lifes blood and they need to take leadership roles in its development and sustainability. Also, we should not forget the others who are not directly involved in tourism but through their efforst, such as the Bonaire kids windsurfers, become ambassadors for the island.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 3:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Michael - yes, we have lots of buck stoppers in the USA with regard to problems w/ hotels, restaurants, and other merchants. And let me include in this category: anyone who charges a fee for expert and/or professional service.

Small claims court comes to mind immediately. If Sharon Spray had such an option available to her, she would not have to go thru public humiliation & aggravation trying to reach a compromise with the resort.

Ombudsmen and consumer affairs agencies are available in every city and state, free of charge.
There are minimum standards of health & safety that must be met in order to stay in business.

Bonaire needs this, if it wishes to compete in the tourism market.
And that reminds me----
I just saw an ad for a 6 day live-aboard Windjammer cruise of the ABC islands, starting at $700 p.p. and tailored to divers/snorkelers. Sails at night and is in port from sun up to sundown every day. The handwriting is on the wall, whether you, Jake or anyone else chooses to acknowledge it.
What we all agree on is the training of local young men & women in the Bonaire Tourism field. It's an excellent venture, as long as the people doing the training behave as professionals. So now we are back to square one.

It's fine to be a free spirit, independent, doing your own thing. It's an unusual approach to running a profit making business. The best example is Ben & Jerry.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linda Richter - NetTech on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 4:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If anybody is interested, here is more on the Windjammer cruises which incidently I received today.

The S.V. Polynesia will reposition and arrive Bonaire on
June 5th 2002 and the S.V. Legacy will call for this season
on Oct 10th, 2002.
-----------------

On another note, Small claims court does not do you much good if you do not live in the location of the problem. Jake and I had a condo rental problem in the San Diego area. The lawyer "owner" challenged us to sue him in small claims court because he knew you must petition in person and therefore it would cost us more to persue it. His company specifically did not take credit cards so they could avoid backcharges when things went wrong. The BBB was unable to offer any further assistance after 3-4 letters they too pointed us to small claims court. Lesson learned.

FYI - Bonaire Beach Villas is listed as a member of Bonhata.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 4:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ah Mimi,

As someone who had a very bad experience with a purveyor of condo rentals in the San Diego, CA area (Mission Bay Vacation Properties in case anyone cares) in October of 2000 for a one week rental of a 2 bedroom condo (we got there to find the condo had not been cleaned, was a disgusting mess (with things like razors, clumps of nasty soggy hair, half eaten food, and who knows what else lying about, and were unable to reach the management company via their emergency 24 hour number), there is no recourse, no "the buck stops here". (This situation was eerily similar to what Sharyn reported, except we had far less patience since we had no place to stay - we ended up moving to a nearby hotel, and spending our week there, in disgust with the aforementioned business operation, and their lack of responsiveness or care - sadly we prepaid by check - last time we make that mistake - it's been credit cards only since then, and will continue to be so).

Regarding the much vaunted and quite useless Small Claims court solution you so cavalierly offer as a safe haven, unless you happen to be in the geographic area, or are willing to fly back to the area where the business that wronged you exists merely to appear in court (you must represent yourself in small claims court, at least in California), then small claims court is absolutely useless. The only bucks small claims court stops in travel destination cases is the bucks the travel operator owes the aggrieved party.

Believe me - we went through all sorts of options to get our money back, including attempting to retain a lawyer, complaining to the BBB, the San Diego tourism authority, the California consumer protection agency, etc., and nothing worked - they all pointed us elsewhere ("oh, we can't help you - try so and so...").

So, while saying that the U.S. (and San Diego is not some hick community either) does offer a "buck stops here" service, I haven't found it, and suspect it's more a sound bite than anything else.

In terms of what goes on on Bonaire - generally the proprietors of businesses here (the smaller ones anyway) are the same people who own the businesses, help maintain the businesses, etc. - not some third party - so when you complain or praise the business proprietor, the buck actually does stop or start there.

Sorry to vent, but I really don't like having platitudes and generalizations waved my way when personal experience shows such devices to be rather empty (and I still have quite negative feelings about Mission Bay Vacation Properities in case you can't tell :-) ).

That said, is there a grievance you have Mimi that you want to air? It seems to be that your line of questioning points in that direction - that you want someone to take responsibility for something that happened to you when you were on Bonaire...

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 5:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I guess Linda posted a comment unbeknownst to me while I was composing mine...

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 5:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I used to work for Windjammer when I lived in Antigua. I sailed on the illfated SV Fantome that sunk off of Honduras with Hurricane Mitch.

:(

Annie
Cape Cod

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Laurie Kennedy on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 6:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I suggest that Mimi contact Bonaire Beach Villas and get the other side of the story before posting such negative (and unfounded) comments. I was in the hotel business for years and can assure you that no tourism organization in the US would get involved with an individual's dissatisfaction with their accommodations.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 6:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Mimi...I must comment that I first met you at the solar eclipse a number of years ago. If you have had so many grieviences with out island, than why have you continued to return? While we are quite willing to listen to your complaining, just what is it you want to say?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde Lee on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake, you really must stand up once in a while to see if Linda is at her computer, and know by "husband's intuition" that she is a micro second ahead of you...(tsk tsk)...i like it when girls get the first post...sorry if i was off the subject Michael...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Fox on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Not that anyone needs my two cents worth, but I simply will not book a hotel or condo or whatever if they won't take a credit card. I have had two instances where I have had rooms that bordered on squallor. In both instances I tried to get another space, was refused or given excuses. I documented the room with photos and a written description, immediately moved out and booked another place and called Citibank Visa and told them what had occured.

I sent them the documentation and Citibank proceeded to go after the bastards hammer and tong and in both cases I got my money back.

Citibank and most high end credit cards have a vested interest in keeping their customers happy. There is a lot of competition in the CC space and they have to fight to keep people. It may not work every time, but it did for me and it has for my parents once in a lodging situationa and once with the purchase of defective furniture.

Not to make light of Jake and Linda's plight, I am sure that it sucked big time, but there are thousands of places in San Diego that will take CC's, I make sure when I go there, that is who I book into. Here in California where I live the tourist bucks are big business, the people that keep you the happiest are those that are going to get repeat business. The credit card companies that I deal with know that.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 2:02 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Touchy, touchy!! I hit a nerve. If Bonaire Tourism doesn't police itself, it will be done for them in the form of live-aboard dive cruises. And most likely, what you are seeing now with Windjammer, is just the tip of the tourist ice-berg.
Jake - my numerous experiences in Small Claims Court have been positive. And yes, I did represent myself in cities other than the one where I reside (Los Angeles). But, I only used the small claims reference as an example of how to find a disinterested third party to settle disputes. There are also consumer reporters in all phases of the media--at the local level, as well as national who investigate & resolve consumer complaints. Bonaire needs to find a better way to deal with tourists who have grievances. That has always been the issue for me. And continues to be. I have never been shy about airing my grievances on this board. Do you know something about me that I don't know? If so, please share it with me.
Laurie - i am not taking sides. I said nothing negative about the resort. What I said, I will say again. Tourist complaints need to be resolved
without public humiliation.... by a disinterested third party. Issues of lodging aestetics are subjective at best. And that is not the issue, as I see it. You are factually incorrect about consumer agencies not getting involved in hotel/guest disputes. When did you last read Conde Naste? Undercurrent?
Michael - We met at Sand Dollar, not the solar eclipse. You were diving. I was snorkeling. I wanted to learn to dive but was hesitant because I have MS. You were forthright in your advice.
stay away from diving...that it was too dangerous for me. It is now 5 years later. I gave your advice the creedence it deserved. I got certified and love every minute in the water. You, on the other hand have stopped diving and won't say why.
I believe that is what I really want to say. Thanks for jogging my memory.
Oh, one more thing-
you are not as willing (as you think you are)when it comes to listening to tourist complaints You take it personally and get defensive. It must be contageous...because now Jake is doing it too.

I return to Bonaire because the corals are too beautiful for words. I am counting the days until a luxury live-aboard dive boat begins sailing her waters. Until then, I will bide my time on land & insist that you listen to me bitch.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 8:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have no doubt that you have been in small claims court numerous times! As for my adivice re diving with MS, it was based on personal experience and that of DAN as well, so your blase insult has fallen on deaf ears. What is your problem? I find you insulting, rude and without the social graces I am sure you were taught. I knew many people who have disabilities and who put those who don't through their paces with demands that they be accomodated. As you know we share the same problem, but not the same attitude. My advice to you still stands and if you ever end up in the recompression chamber with an "undeserved case of the bends" don't say you were not warned an try to sue the dive shop/opertator that allowed you to dive. Also, shame on you for insulting Jake and Linda. BTW, This is the last word I will air publickly. I will not respond again to your commentas on the this board.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 10:25 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

David, It was a lesson learned, the hard way, for us, but I now agree with you fully and completely.

Mimi - You pressed my button by telling me that I had recourse in the U.S. when my own experience with a tourism-related travesty showed me that such recourse would have cost more than what I was "robbed" of (the cost of another plane ticket to California from Bonaire just for starters, only to appear in Small Claims Court to represent myself against a lawyer who owns the business I had a grievance with, with my travel costs not being recoverable even were I to win). The real buck stopper is to use one's credit card and document the hell out of a problem situation for them, as David has done.

In terms of Bonaire accountability, word of mouth has worked quite well as a backup to provide praise or complaint to the business owner. You yourself mention Undercurrent, and lest we forget, there's BonaireTalk too. Postings here, as well other venues, pro and con a given Bonaire business carry quite a bit of weight, based on other postings I've seen. Word of mouth has sunk businesses on Bonaire, as well as made others amazingly popular.

Bonaire's too small to have additional policing agencies, and the legal and other infrastructure does not exist here to support such.

And, one reason I prefer living on Bonaire vs. the U.S. is a lack of onerous and usually rather stupid regulations which impede my freedom. Keep in mind Bonaire has no stop lights, no regulations prohibiting using fireworks on New Year's Eve, no seat belt regulations, etc. - the belief here is that people are, for the most part still responsible for their own actions, not some manufacturer of an ancilliary product or service. (And I moved here from New Hampshire - The Live Free or Die State, which had less regulation than many others, but still far too many). It's also another reason civil litigation is relatively minor here on Bonaire (and another reason I like living here). So, please don't try to make Bonaire just like the U.S. in terms of lawsuits, regulations, etc.

And on that note, I'll follow Michael out of this topic, exercising my non-regulated but existing right to not have to respond further. Enjoy :-)

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott and sharon barlass on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 2:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I've followed this discussion with some interest as I've experienced a lack of satisfaction with certain hotels I've stayed at in the US (I travel 70,000+ miles per year).

It seems that before strong recommendations for new regulations and agencies are submitted, one might seek to determine the level of the problem.

I've been to Bonaire 20 times and have spoken with hundreds of visitors. I also read the postings on this newsgroup almost daily.

My perception is that 99%+ have great experiences on Bonaire with no problems regarding lodging misrepresentation.

Why create a bureaucracy to deal with an almost non-existant problem?

Live aboards might be for some, but many really enjoy the cultural experience of spending time on land mixing with locals. Many can't afford live aboards. Many would find it rather troublesome to be stuck on a live aboard for a week with people who are rude and opinionated.

Regarding Mike Gaynor. I've always found Mike to be concerned about the accuracy of his comments. Many who visit Bonaire for a short period of time once a year may have an experience or two that is not representative of what Bonaire is like MOST of the time. Also, the experience of Bonaire is many times much different for those who are long-term visitors, residents, or citizens. I think Mike does a good job trying to represent what Bonaire is really like MOST of the time.

Of course Bonaire has problems. It is populated by humans. Of course I've been disappointed at certain restaurants, or by my gardening service, or by a dive operation. But the great majority of the time the owners are eager to remedy the problem. In those few cases when they are not, I just don't give them my money any more!

Scott

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peggy Bowen on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 6:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Re: Liveaboards
The Aggressor Fleet did have a boat based around the ABC islands some years ago. That is when a few of the heavier moorings were put in - away from the single or double barrel moorings.
Why do you think the cruise lines are so popular - not much worry about someone in your room at night or your water bottle getting stolen.

Re: crime in room and on shore dives
When this issue raised it's ugly head many, many years ago, people were hurt. Those of us that tried to warn other divers were yelled at by the people in the Bonaire Tourist office. It was our fault... it wasn't something that Bonaire wanted to hear. And really, after all that, I wasn't sure they wanted me to come back to Bonaire. (But I wasn't the person that had originated some of the 'warnings to Bonaire divers' but did tell our NJ Dive Council members about it.) I have always felt that it was sort of a strange way of handling a problem.
Just a voice from someone with lots of vacation time on Bonaire over the years.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 7:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I too will express my final thoughts on this topic:
Bonaire has a crime problem in which tourists are the victims. There is no plan or intention to get to the bottom of it. Many of the victims stayed in lodgings where the owners knew there were break-in problems and chose to do nothing about it. Some owners grossly misrepresent, while others conveniently omit info that might cause a tourist to think twice about staying there.
I find the scenario to be most unappealing. And I find the individuals who support this scenario to be most apalling.
The bottom line for everyone is simple. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

And now on to the matter of DAN. I am a card carrying member of DAN and am insured with them as well. DAN has never taken a position with regard to MS being a contraindication to safe diving. Ignorant individuals continue to misinterpret DAN's position, and spout eronious information as if speaking from the Holy Grail. People with physical disabilities are constantly dealing with other people's prejudice, stereotypic notions, fears and outright contempt. So it is all the more a pity when a disabled diver deliberately discourages a disabled person from learning to scuba dive. It is pure self-loathing.

I have learned a lot from this website. And I have given a lot in return. I thank you for the opportunity to exchange thoughts and feelings. I wish everyone well---including those with whom I vociferously disagree. Happy diving, one and all.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott barlass on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 12:06 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Gee I didn't know this was all about crime...I thought it was about a hotel problem!

Scott

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Flook on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 10:19 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ok into the fray we go:

Jake has some great points. No stop lights, little regulation. Just the way I like it. This means look out forself. Do not depend on others to look out for you, or to solve your problems. Look bth wyas before you cross the intersection, If you get hit while crossing do not demand that a stop light be installed, and/or drag the other guy to court, or trash them publically.

I recall an experience years ago on Boniare where we booked a place which we had not stayed prior. We had toured it prior and found it clean and professional. However, when we arrived the room smelled very bad, had bugs that wouyld drop off the ceiling in the middle fo the night and land in the bed, and other simialr disgusting proplems. We moved out immediatley. We negoatiated a parting of ways with the owner and stumbled upon Buddy Dive. The rest is history. We have been back to Buddy 4 aditional times now.
And we would not recommend the other place to anybody, which I think is now out of business.

End of story.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Davison on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:41 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wow .... drop off for a month or two and the sparks start to fly!! Let me say that forums like this and others on the Net do an excellent job of "identifying" issues and raising consumer awareness. No amount of additional goveernment/private agencies and beauracracy will solve the problem .... can someone tell me why we want to export the general onerous and ineffective environment from the States to the Caribbean? Anyone been to St. Thomas? Puerto Rico? These have all the "protections" that Mimi espouses and are still ridden with crime. The problems in Bonaire are trivial compared to other locations. Forums like these and concerned local residents like Mike, Jake etal are the reason why tourism will increase.

Bob

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mimi greenberg on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 1:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

bob - the timing of your post is perfect. I just returned from diving BVI. Stayed on Virgin Gorda at the Little Dix Bay resort and dived with them too.
The day we arrived, we were told by management that unlike other islands in the Caribbean, there is no theft in Virgin Gorda. There are no locks on the doors of rooms at the hotel. The security is tight without being obtrusive. For me, it was heaven on earth. For others, it would be a tropical prison.
No need to debate this issue. The type of tourism each island attracts, is predicated on respect for tourists needs & wishes.
It was the most civilized vacation I have ever experienced. If you applaud the direction in which Bonaire tourism is going, you will get a whole lot more of what you deserve.

 


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