Bonaire has great reason to be proud of their kids who against great odds represent the island well in the world of Windsurfing. Unfortunately as many know windsurfing has been challenged by the new and ever growing sport of Kitesurfing. Windsurfing and specifically pro-windsurfing has dwindled considerably. Many people who use to windsurf have now gone to kiting, as has there dollars. If you have an interest that goes beyond the status quo at Lac please join the conversation in the Kitesurfing, Windsurfing thread. It seems people there think they speak for the all the people on the island. The continued ban on kiting at Lac has hurt the local economy, it no doubt has hurt the potential for the children to participate in fastest growing watersport. The reality is that kiting at Pink beach is less than ideal and potentially very dangerous. Why the island continues to let people who serve only their own interest represent the island is beyond me. If you wan't to support the Children of the Wind, there future is only enhanced by the Kiteboardings inclusion at Lac. The days of denial are over, can you afford to let the NIMBY politics speak for you? If you have both social and an economic interests in your community you can't afford to let these people dominate the discussion. Please, if you would support a temporary lift on the prohibition at Lac and wan't to explore the real economic realities while at the same time support the future of the 'Children of the wind' please speak. There is a solution at Lac that can serve all interest. The first step is a temporary lifting of the ban, implement rules and a strategy that serves all interests. After a probationary period you folks can decide to continue or not. What harm is there in investigating the potential of a environmentally sound sport that would help the economic realities we struggle with while also serving the potential future of the 'Children of the Wind'

Mods ... are we going to let this subject spill over into every thread on BT ?? Isn't the Kiteboarding, Windsurfing ... thread the right place ??

KOB, this is OK too.. just not duplicate posts. Stephen should really do an article for the Reporter to get attention if he really wants it....and keep it off this board.

This is about a lot more than kitesurfing and windsurfing. This is about the community. I don't think a shop owner cares if its kiteboarder or windsurfer who buys, the condo owner doesn’t care if its a windsurfer or kiter who rents. How many non kiters/windsurfers actually read the kiteboarding/windsurfing thread. The reality is this is likely a better forum thread than where it originated. Lac is simply a resource for all the islands residents whether they use it or not. KOB, is trying to control the conversation. KOB, you should simply examine your conscience. The island of Bonaire relies on tourism, and the conversation that promotes tourism is the one we are having. It is arrogant to suggest that kiteboarding be relegated as a fringe element. I’m a father of two; I’m close to fifty years old. I don’t come to Bonaire because I can’t kite there safely. My family who windsurfs can’t come as a consequence. If you alienate a kiter you will alienate a family or a group, this is the situation. People, this is as serious as a heart attack. If you want to rent, sell, or service more, participate in this conversation or others will speak for you.

Stephen I find your posts very hard to read..

could you take a breath once in a while please
it is like you have one big run on sentence...

Stephen -- examine my conscience? I voted with my $$ and bought a home on Bonaire where I will be retiring. Helped STINAPA raise money to buy binoculars for the kids of Bonaire. I am neutral regarding kiting, just don't want to be bludgeoned on every thread by one person's views.

And I'm older than you, so respect your elders ;-)

Stephen, this is getting old fast.

this guy is a troll farting in public.

and you just fed him..... shame on you Brian



anybody local here yet??

Yep. I'm here. Personally, I don't see why the kiters couldn't set up shop on the other side, the Lac Cai side, across from Sorobon/Jibe (not near the mangroves, more in the fisherman's channel area near the old piles of conch shells). There's already a local business established there that could cater to food/drink needs; this would be a boost for them, because now they're just there on Sundays, or they could rent it to someone to run the other days. If the kiters were over there, they could still enjoy the benefits of lac, and they would not be in a position to be buzzing any surfacing divers. If my arms/shoulders weren't so screwed up, I'd be kiting myself--I watch them at Atlantis sometimes, and they look like they're having fantastic fun.

What do you mean no divers there???? That is the entrance for the Cai Shoredive....

Anouk is correct.
http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/30/316534.html

Yes, I know it's the entrance for the Cai/east side shore divers, but it's really a big area that more people could enjoy, and safer for the kiters too, especially children kiters. If you think about how the kites work, and how the winds usually are in that area, you'll realize the wind is coming into the bay at that point; kites catching it would be going off-shore, into the center of the bay area, not buzzing the shore where the trees would be blocking the breezes.

Peace all.

Good point Ruth. Truth be told, what upsets me the most is the people renting boats at the Plaza..I watched them for years just driving by waving,,,not looking at all...Louise almost got nailed last year.....What, people are in the water?

That is upsetting and dangerous Jerry, and chances are boat rentals happen every day. I wonder what renters are taught? Albeit not life-threateningly dangerous, except to the reef and my stress level, are all the guests I see in the water at Windsock, jumping on the coral, sitting on it, standing on it, etc. (well, that part is kinda funny when it's fire coral; mother nature's punishment, but it still ticks me off). I frequently tell these people, 'please don't do that, you're killing the coral' and just as frequently get blank, clueless, or angry, could-care-less stares. Sometimes they stop; more times they don't (and yes, I do state this in other languages). There are many many more non-diving visitors now than I've ever seen before. They want to sit on the beach and sun themselves, and go in the water (not even to snorkel, just go in--these seem to be the folks stomping on the coral). What orientation are they given? From what I see, none. It also bugs me to no end when smokers plop themselves upwind of me & light up; but that's a personal issue.

Anyway, I look at it like this. Wind-surfing and kite surfing activities are not cheap, especially considering the equipment they have to lug around (like divers, only bulkier if they're dragging along their kites & booms & boards, etc.). There is a lot of space here, for many people to enjoy, and that can be achieved if it's handled responsibly and sensibly, not just by saying "no-not allowed!" That's just not fair or realistic. The expense and difficulty of getting here provides almost a 'natural selection' situation (not select enough, but at least it's something). Folks who come along packing only a bathing suit have the least expense of all, yet can do as much if not more damage than any surfer, if they're crunching the coral or carelessly steering a boat.

A long time ago, divers went out on dive boats, not on shore dives. Dive boats = divers; that was fairly simple. Why is it acceptable that it there is no responsibility to float a diver down flag? I dunno, but that does seem to be the case. Would a diver flag always help? Probably not--but could it? Probably yes. It's all a learning process. Bonaire has grown and diversified. 20+ years ago it wasn't even guaranteed that you could find a car to rent, let alone a moped, or bike, or Harley, or kayak, or windsurfing kit or kitesurfing kit, or boat, or have things to do like: fishing charters, horse-back riding, visit a donkey sanctuary, go on a bird-watching tour, visit a market in Rincon, an art gallery, a butterfly farm, take a mangrove tour, or... you see where this is going, right? At first, seemingly almost everyone came here only to dive, and most were from the US. A few windsurfers came next; Jibe City was barely more than a shack back then-now there are two booming windsurfing/bar-restaurant/lounge rental businesses there, loved by guests and residents alike. Later, flights from Europe and South America increased. Fast forward to current day, and there's a wide variety of activities, and Bonaire's visitors represent a much bigger variety of nations, customs, desires, budgets and expectations.

I think it would help reef and personal safety immensely if every visitor arriving would have to complete an orientation course to learn about what they can and cannot do, and shore divers would have to fly diver-down flags. The first is unrealistic (folks vanish into individual home rentals and hotel rooms--unless they need air, there's no way to get them into an orientation), and I have a feeling the latter will be protested as being against the 'home of diving freedom' mentality.

Thanks for your input Ruth..Personally, I don't have a big problem with kiters out at Cai. Primarily this is because I really don't dive that area much, but others do. Therein lies the problem. I really don't think the two sports mix well.

However I do disagree on your suggestion of mandatory "diver down flags" for shore dives. Rest assured that would do much more damage to the reef. Flags are held in place by a line tied to a lead weight. It would lead to chaos along the shore on Bonaire. On top of that there would be a complete proliferation of dive flags. Not pretty and also not the way to go IMHO.

My first dive trip on Bonaire was over 25 years ago and fortunately I have an excellent memory. So I do know exactly what you are talking about when you state "Bonaire has grown and diversified".

I am very happy with many of the changes;obviously not all; but growth does bring both opportunities and also potential problems.

I do know that if the island had remained in the same state it was 25 years ago, I never would have invested any capital there. I suspect the same would be true for you and many many others who are now frequent visitors of the island.

The Home of Diving Freedom that is Habitat - not Bonaire!. Bonaire is, at least that is what the license-plates tell us, Divers Paradise. This means, at least to me, that this is a Paradise island to Divers...... Hmmmm.... Let's see.....;
All visitors of Bonaire are excluded from an orientation except divers..... All visitors making use of the Marine Park should pay a US$ 10.- entrance fee except divers. Arrivals by big boats do not have to pay any MP fee except when these folks dive...... This are just a few advantages Divers have that come to mind in Divers Paradise aka Bonaire. Now divers "need" to cary flags and/or other surface markers to make known that they are there and maybe survive their dive??? This has somewhat of a change if the other MP users (yep, those that may have paid their fees too but for sure that was a lot less!!) understand what those things floating on the surface mean.... !!!!

I would be in favor of closing an area for every activity except Kiting and by this closing ALL OTHER area's for Kiting. It is safest for all and offers this beautiful sport the change to grow. Rental boats should be banned for that same reason everywhere in the BNMP!! They are fun for the user(s) but for all others a plague!

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone who has taken the time to read my post and especially those who have decided to participate in the discussion. I remind everybody that this discussion was started in the kitesurfing and windsurfing thread. I only brought it here because I want people who dont regularly read that thread to know the situation. You only have to read that thread to see folks like Jerry and Brian are not part of a solution. There continued sharp tongues only serve their interest, they dont have anything constructive to say so they attack me. For those of you that have an interest in exploring the options at Lac please let your voices be heard. I've introduced this discussion many times and finally think there is broader support than ever before. Dont let these people beat me up and defeat your interests.

KOB, I'm forty seven years old and I expect some respect also, lol. I really didnt mean to pick on you, I'm sure I speak for everybody in thanking you for you investment in Bonaire and the contributions you have made to STINAPA. I'd also like to apologise for my lack of writing skills and the ramblings I make you suffer through. I try to get a comment in when I can at work, its not often I get the time to write. When I do it is very limited as are my writing skills. I can only help spark a discussion here, I've taken the advice from some here and wrote to the Bonaire Reporter, I encourage people here to eamil them and state your opinions pro or con.

Cai is where I would prefer to kite if allowed; Lac where it is deep enough would also be fantastic.

As I often do I'd like to interject that alienating kiters alienates more than the kiter. Most kiters I know are part of a larger community, either friends or family. When a kiter is in the mix and he or she isnt allowed to kite they will take their vacation elsewhere just as I have to do. My wife wants to windsurf, my children want ot learn. All I want is place to enjoy together safely. As you can imagine, most of my friends kiteboard however we all use to windsurf. I've built a lifestyle around it. like many of you I have made investments in real estate and most importantly the time needed to thoroughly enjoy my sport. As much as the marketing of kiteboarding is to the younger group I can tell you that thats a bunch of hype. 70% of kiters here on Cape Cod are over 30, most over 40, and a large amount are over 50.

For what it is worth I cn also attest to two occasions that kiters here on Cape Cod have saved windsurfers. I share this only because some windsurfers here think we are a danger, tho not the ones her on CC whos lives have been saved. That may sound overly dramatic but its true, I can produce proof if anyone wants to call me on it...

KOB, I'm also sorry that you feel bludgeoned. I dont mean to speak of my own feelings, just to remind folks that many here on Bonaire Talk are always getting spoken for when it comes to this. This really isnt about me at all. If I owned property on the Island I might like the idea of a green sport that is environmentally sound and has the potential to double if not triple the revenue produced through windsurfing at Lac. Given the state of windsurfing thats a conservative number.

A place for everything, and everything in its place-I agree Menno, this is how it should be, and if one knowingly crosses into the other then that person crossing over has the responsibility to be extra vigilant. I agree too, clueless boaters are a menace to the reef & others (same as clueless bathers). Why no orientation for every visitor?

Stephen -- you are entitled to your views and to express them here. Nothing personal ... what I meant by bludgeoned is that the discussion was going along fine on the Kitesailing, Windsurfing thread, but seems to have migrated to this thread and maybe others, requiring us to read about this topic on multiple threads. I support and encourage the discussion, but not across the entire BT.

Ruth & Menno made some excellent points about setting aside some dedicated space for kiting so that everyone can do their thing safely. Makes sense to me.

Merry Christmas to all !! -- KOB.

A place for everything, and everything in its place-I agree Menno, this is how it should be, and if one knowingly crosses into the other then that person crossing over has the responsibility to be extra extra vigilant (duh). Where do divers want to go more, Atlantis & nearby sites where the kiters are now, or the middle of Lac? If you had a child who wanted to learn how to kite-surf, where would you be more comfortable? At Lac (where you're blown inland), or off the coast where you can be blown out to sea?

I agree too, clueless boaters are a menace to the reef & others (clueless anyone for that matter). Why no orientation for every visitor; or at least some video on big direct flights like KLM/Arke, and Delta & Continental (Insel is only 1/wk direct, but has no media capability), to inform passengers what coral is & that they should not stand on it? Not a solution, but at least a start. In my personal experience, which is pretty much every non-rainy weekend, none of the people I end up asking 'not to touch/stand on the coral' speak English as a first language...

(Message edited by ruth on December 19, 2010)

Sorry for the near double-post--didn't realize I posted my unfinished comment at 10:49 above.

Some people you can talk to and some people talk at you. I feel from the past postings and not listening to the replies that Stephen fits into the latter section. I am not rarely so blunt but sometimes after many attempts then this is the correct approach and so Stephen wins my slinky award.

Seems like there is a need for an "Orientation to Bonaire Pamphlet" that will get to more people then the ones that sit down at the initial dive orientation.
BT could have an "Intro to Bonaire" Catagory Or "Do's and Don'ts".
Bonaire is a small island and with the kites, windsurfer's, diver's, snorkler's, fisherman, and jetski's(ugh!) there should be a guild as to how everyone can mingle safely.

Well, I really think when it comes to combining all the aforementioned activities, it all comes down to simple courtesy, consideration and just plain old common sense. Unfortunately, as one of the founders of our country observed, there's nothing common about common sense. Still holds true today.

i like the idea of the "Orientation to Bonaire Pamphlet". i wonder if it's feasible to hand them out on the inbound planes (everybody needs some reading material on long flights) or if they could be given out at immigration upon arrival. good idea.

Since TCB has been so instrumental in increasing the cruise ship trade, this Orientation pamphlet should be produced by them.

I'd encourage that it should be mandatory that the cruise ship operators provide the pamphlet to the cruisers before they disembark.

great idea Vince

Brian, Thanks you for your well put and constructive comments. No doubt the kids are just rolling around laughing. BT, please discipline the child, it seems wholly unfair to put up with Brians continued harassment. I have and will maintain higher ground than that afforded me. I'm sure I speak for many when I say his comments do little to advance the conversation. I could resort to such immaturity but out of respect for the moderators I will not.

For the life of me I cant believe jet-Skis are allowed anywhere near the island, that bathers violate common sense, and boaters are as recklace as described. It would seem there are many other things besides kitesurfing that Bonaire should focus on. Vinces idea of a pamphlet seems a good place to start.

Out of all the conversations about kiting I've heard little that suggest the detractors have anything else besides there interests at hand. I thought somebody would have introduced the real rub, Bonaires focus on the 'National Heritage' position windsurfing has enjoyed. I see no reason why Bonaires gifted children are not able to enjoy kiting as they have windsurfing. The fact that theyre not competing at the pro level and representing Bonaire as they have with windsurfing is beyond me. As Elvis has stated, "Bonaire has a long sea faring history of Seaman" Seems kiting would be a natural progression or better put, contribution to the existing fabric of the island.

BT moderators please request that Brian focus on issues and less on personal insults. I try very hard not to slip down the slope that makes this discussion less than constructive, please ask the same of him.

looks like this topic has reached an impasse. maybe it's time to put it to rest...at least on these boards.

cruise ship passengers always have an orientation pamphlet issued by the the ship in cooperation with the TCB and tour operators. and on tours we also provide the publications Bonaire Night's and/or Bonaire Affair to each tourist as well as as other occasional relevant information. So the cruisers are informed....

Thanks Pietri..I wasn't aware of that.
Now that Ronella's leaving TCB as of next week,has her replacement been named? Under her tutelage, there has been an exponential increase in cruise ships visiting the island. Perhaps her replacement will ease off of it a bit, or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

To me that sounds more like one more piece of paper that will end up blowing into the ocean, or, if used correct, ends up on our landfill. Why is it necessary to inform new arrivals about the natural beauty and how to cope with that fragile world in the first place?? I like to think that new arrivals come to Bonaire for that!!

Please Miss excuse me but Stephen's telling tales.

I think that Kite Boarding is an admirable sport but it does not seem to mix well with other ocean sports such as diving and windsurfing.

One definition of an idiot is someone who does the same things and expects different results. I tried reason with this poster but that failed so hence my more terse responses to the same whines.

I think the kiters should have their own area - Atlantis or others if the Marine Park sees fit, but that is for the powers on Bonaire to decide not me or other visitors.

Nuff said.

Brian your dogma is useless against common sense. If anyone wants to hear my real opinion on Brian and his "terse" crapola and thoroughly rational reasoning, please refer to the Kitesufing Windsurfing thread where his brilliant mind shines...STOP THE VOICES!!

(Message edited by modfreddie on December 24, 2010)

removed for impolite context.

(Message edited by modfreddie on December 24, 2010)

this thread is closed.... It is Christmas Eve please everyone go to your respected corners and have a nice night and a wonderful day tomorrow.

(Message edited by modfreddie on December 24, 2010)