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Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives 2005 - 2006: Archives - 2005-06-01 to 2005-07-14: Tom Cruise
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By david leigh (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 11:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Anyone seen Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes on Bonaire? They're supposedly holidaying in the area aboard the Scientology yacht Freewinds

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tish (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #228) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 11:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Passengers on the Freewinds typically don't leave the ship much.
But thanks for the tip!
And welcome to BT, David! :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5578) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 12:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe that's who helped pay for the spectacular fireworks Freewinds sponsored and organized last night!

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tami Lamb (BonaireTalker - Post #94) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 12:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am afraid that I would NOT be happy to see TC endorse Bonaire. That's all Bon needs- an expert on everything hanging around. (Can you tell that I am not a huge fan of his behavior lately?)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1789) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 2:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Age thing Tami ???? :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tami Lamb (BonaireTalker - Post #95) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 2:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

no actually- I am only a few years older!! I just think that he has shot his mouth off lately without thinking. (I would blame it all on the media except for the TV interview that he gave.)On the other hand- Bon would be the perfect place for celebs to come IF the media would leave them alone.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tish (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #229) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 3:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If he is on Bonaire now, this is not his first trip here. He has been on the Freewinds here before.
We get a few celebrities here every year, and they keep low profiles. Easy to do in a quiet, sparsely populated place like this where most people respect others' wishes, including their desire to be left alone. That respect for others includes the "media" here. In fact I am giggling at the idea of the press here chasing celebs. :-)
Tish

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Davison (BonaireTalker - Post #68) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 3:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Never a dull moment when the slave-ship is in port. It's pretty easy to spot the patrons with their "handlers".

Bob

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Baum (GDLW) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2814) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 3:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm just giggling picturing me running into Katie Holmes at Island Fashions... lol... how funny!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Baum (GDLW) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2816) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 3:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake, I'm glad you liked the fireworks. I special ordered it for your anniversary. ;)

Hope you two had a great day.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5065) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 4:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I understand Gene Hackman has been diving on Bonaire in the past, as well.

I still want to know who the heck came in the 300 foot yacht while we were on Bonaire a few weeks ago!! No name on the boat and could not recognize the flags. Had a helicopter which was used a couple of times, an amphibious car/boat which was used, too, along with two speed boats, some ski doos and lots of other neat stuff.

No one on the island was "talking" aabout the the identity of the persons....who the heck was it, guys???!!! CArole

PS My husband swears it was an "arms" dealer but I doubt that very much! LOL.

Whoever it was spent a ton of money on that toy...40 million or so??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Baum (GDLW) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2821) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 4:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What a toy that would be! Wow.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5066) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 8:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I never knew the Freewinds was associated with Scientology. Learn something every day!! We see her docked there all the time.

TC needs to lay low for a little while, IMHO. But my HO doesn't really matter, does it! LOL.

I hope they can get in a few good dives. Carole

PS I would still love to know who came in on that yacht a few weeks ago. I'll have to post a picture of it here so you guys can see part of it. It was docked at the cargo pier...it was THAT big!! cb

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By david leigh (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 8:49 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

glad i've started such an interesting discussion!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5068) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 9:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just quickly resized two pics of the yacht in question....pardon the lack of quality but I have not downloaded the pics from our trip "officially" yet so these could be much better.

Can anyone tell me WHO the heck rolled into town on this puppy???!!! Note the CRANE they had to use to lower the amphibeous vehicle onto the loading dock area and it is also used to lower the speed boats, too.

Someone has a lot of moolah to play with, apparently! Very secretive, too. Caroleyacht1yacht2

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5071) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 9:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

This baby had to bee 300 feet long and about fifty feet wide and four stories tall....whew! Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Babs (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #8993) on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 10:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

OMG, I have never seen such a fancy rig....the disposable income some folks have! YIKES! Thanks for the pic Carole, I was having trouble visualizing a yacht with a helicopter and amphibious vehicle! :-) (wonder if they need a nurse practitioner on board :-) )

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1791) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 1:58 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carole , et all .

mega yachts like that cost about a million per 3 feet ( lenght) to purchase and about 10% of the total bill to maintain per year.

Adnan Kashoggi might own a yacht like that .

If you fancy to cruise one of those baby's and got some spare cash , (LOL) , check out this site.

http://www.sevenseascharters.com/

well , I guy can dream can't he?????

sjossss

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stewart (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #493) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 7:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

We saw it when when we were there last month. From memory I think it was registered in the Caymans. It had a shed load of toys on decks, the price of those would have kept me happy for a lifetime!

Dave

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tami Lamb (BonaireTalker - Post #96) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 8:40 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

"sniff"- well- if you show up on a great big boat like that do you shore dive or boat dive!? (Do the nice deckhands truck all your gear down 1000 Steps for you?) And after spending all that money- I would feel like I couldn't stay on shore at one of the lovely little resorts!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5074) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 12:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jos, that would put the price tag at approximately $300 million dollars, if she is 300 feet in length. She surely seemed to be at least one US football field in length to me! (100 yards/300 feet).

Yowsa, yowsa, yowsa!

But WHO was on her???? I guess with that kind of money you can positively remain anonymous as for as long as you'd like!

Anyone on Bonaire know who it was? Can anyone "reveal" to us who it was?? I'd love to know....Carole

PS I forgot to mention the zodiaks on board, too....boy, it had a lot of toys! Traffic was stopping by the waterside so everyone could gawk at this baby....residents and tourists, alike. Very impressive flotation device! cb

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tami Lamb (BonaireTalker - Post #97) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 12:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe they were lost and stopped to ask for directions......

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5075) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 12:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

sjoss....I think you found our yacht!! The link is unreal...I just can't imagine...

Anyway, here is one I found on the website you linked us to, Jos....I do think this is the same yacht....It might be the Senses....Caroleyacht

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5076) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 12:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

OK, so it was only 194 feet in lenght....who knew?! What's a few feet amongst friends?! LOL. CArole

Name of Yacht Summer Location Winter Location Length Guests Cabins Low High

Senses: (summer) West Med. (winter) West Med. 194' 12 5 $240,000 $250,000

I guess she was a little out of her territory, eh? It reflects West Mediterranean and not the Caribbean....maybe she was lost, Tammi!! LOL.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Baum (GDLW) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2825) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 12:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It's bigger than my entire neighborhood. lol

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5077) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 1:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly...I think "this" floatation device beats all of us (you, me and Cyn) combined! LOL. cb

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Baum (GDLW) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2826) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 1:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carole, yes, I have "Flotation Device Envy". LOL

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mrs. Limpet (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #944) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 4:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tom is indeed on island...
tom

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #251) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 4:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carole, and all the other curious ones,

I think I have some answers,

I heard from people that talked to the personnel on-board that it was Hugh Heffners (Playboy) boat. First everybody was talking about Bill Gates (Microsoft), but someone was quite sure Bill's vessel is different, and even more luxurious.
Also the amphibious car was not resistant to Bonaire's waves, and it needed repair, as it was several hours on the pier.
BTW, I didn't know Hugh Heffner is still alive, but if this was true, he actually still is.

Yes it was an impressive view, that little boatie......


Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By david leigh (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 4:34 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Nice picture of Tom Mrs Limpet. Could be worth a fortune!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tami Lamb (BonaireTalker - Post #100) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 5:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

That can't be Heff's boat!!!! Where are all the bunnies!?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5079) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 5:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Harrie. Hugh is still alive so maybe it was his yacht. I'd love to trace the emblem/flags on the side of the yacht to determine their origin.

I wonder if he was on board or if it was chartered by someone else with tons of money?

It does look like the same on in the website link above, tho. Agree? The Senses??

It was fun to watch the crane lower the amphibious car onto the dock and then watch it drive down the ramp into the water, pass by us at the Divi and then back up the ramp over by Richard's. She couldn't handle the wave action, tho, eh? Funny! All that money and it still needed to be worked on. Whoever it was has it to spend.

Must be divers, too...why else would you dock on Bonaire? The chopper disappeared for a day or so, too. Maybe off to gamble somewhere else in the Caribbean? Shopping spree? We'll never know.

Cynde...Tom IS back but you'll have to go up to Jake's old place and tell him he's standing in front of the wrong door now!! LOL. Oh, will he be able to figure this out on his own?? Will his new honey understand all of this?? Maybe we can get both of them to stand in front of the bar cam! LOL. How about the reef cam incognito?? LOL!

Thanks, again, Harrie...if you hear anything else about the mystery yacht and its occupants, please give us an update, ok? Ayo. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #13872) on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 9:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Awe, my Tommy's on island...LOL! I certainly hope that Katie doesn't get "jealous." tee hee...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1793) on Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 1:59 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well well , Carole , you knock me out of my "senses" , I've drewling over this sit e for quite some time but I had not yet seen this vessel.

Btw , 1 million per 3 feet would make 100 million instead of "your" 300.
This math would make this vessel cost $64,7 million to build.

I don't know who said so but someone mentioned a lot of toys aboard so it "could" be the Bunny Boat.

LO.

sjosss

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (BonaireTalker - Post #56) on Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 10:47 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

yes the yacht had the playboy bunny insignia on it, and we surmised that it was Hefner's daughter aboard to participate in the Scientology stuff on the Freewinds. she is a scientologist supposedly. I think Hefner might be too old to get out of his bed these days.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5082) on Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 1:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Pauline....I missed the insignia but we didn't have a great vantage point to see it. She's into Scientology, too? Hmmmm.

My math is not my forte', obviously! LOL. If I don't have a calculator I'm helpless with math. Thanks for the heads up, sjosss! That is one heck of a website, indeed. Carole

PS Is Tom still on Bonaire??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stewart (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #495) on Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 4:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Google produced a load of hits

senses

at $250,ooo a week I'm not sure I like the colour:-)
Dave

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stewart (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #496) on Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 4:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

and as for the dinner service ...

Jenni seems to think it was registered in Hamilton.

Dave

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5086) on Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 6:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Dave! Do I see wheels on the bed??!! LOL. Guess that could be good or bad....LOL.

There definitely was a helicopter on board when it was docked in Bonaire...I guess they made an "exception" or else someone purchased the yacht outright.

Needs more colorful interiors to "punch" it up a bit, but I guess it is easier to charter out when it is "neutral". Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T Law (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 12:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just reading the posts. Can anyone give me the 'Tail Number' on the helicopter? The first letter(s) are of the nationally the copter is registered in. US registrations start with the letter 'N'.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T Law (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 1:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Check out this link:
http://www.thestylegroup.com/top10_yachts_02.htm
also:
http://www.eastcoastyachtcruises.com/senses.html
on the following link, it states that use of the copter pad is not allow for charter. Does this mean the owner was using the yacht? Scroll down to see the complete layout of the yacht.
http://www.orcasailing.com/yachts/senses/

I think this is the yacht.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The Ginocchio's @ Golden Reef Inn (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #778) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 5:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ok Guys,

From my research I think the owner must have been on board, or family or something.

The current owner is a gentleman by the name of Allan Gibbs of Gibbs Technologies. He is a New Zealander that currently lives in the UK. The car that we all saw on board is called the "Aquada" and it was developed by Gibbs.

Nuf' said.

Liz

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cathy Hamilton (BonaireTalker - Post #18) on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 1:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

As for Tom Cruise, he was on Curacao around the 4/5 July time frame. We were staying at the Royal Resorts Aquarium and he rented out the aquarium and closed the place down so he could do a dive with the sea lions. He was also there two years ago during the same week. Did the same thing (paid for the aquarium to close down) so he could play with the dolphins. I know because my kids were doing a sea camp week both times and were at the aquarium (had to stay in their classrooms) while the place was closed.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tish (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #258) on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 9:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The Freewinds goes from Bonaire to Aruba and Curacao. It visits only these three islands, so when Tom Cruise is aboard he would naturally turn up on all three islands that week.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By anne hainsworth (BonaireTalker - Post #25) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 5:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well, I doubt he'll be on the Freewinds, because his lady friend wouldn't be allowed on yet. And I don't think they are ready to be surgically separated yet. You have to attain a certain level of study (and not just 6 weeks of tutoring) to be on that ship. I could be totally wrong and they could contradict everything in the literature about who can be on board by letting a girlfriend of an influential church member on board.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By anne hainsworth (BonaireTalker - Post #26) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 5:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

From Wikipedia:
The Freewinds is the exclusive training center for OT VIII (Operating Thetan Level 8), the highest level of Scientology, and the first of the OT levels. The next levels OT 9 & OT 10 have not been released yet, and, supposedly, L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology's founder) has written levels up to OT 15. Initiates who have reached the highest levels must receive their training on the Freewinds, as the Church does not allow it to take place in any other location.
If you want to read more, go to the Wikipedia site- the blurbs are contributed by knowledgeable people. And about the operating thetans, that's a whole new can of worms. Cruise just ATTAINED this level where he can be on the Freewinds (in recent years) -- and he's been doing it for 20 years! So the people you see milling around on deck are hardcore and at the top of the organization. If girlfriend Katie gets to study on the ship, it would kind of be a blow to Scientology students who spend a lot of money and time trying to get on it. I'm just sayin'!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By anne hainsworth (BonaireTalker - Post #27) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 5:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I can't help myself -- one more tidbit. This is who is on the boat. Food for thought when you are having a beer at Karel's and gazing at the boat:

Operating Thetan Levels and the Xenu incident
The "Hidden Truth" about the nature of the universe is taught to the most advanced Scientologists in a series of programs known as the Advanced Levels or Operating Thetan levels (eight in all), for which the initiate needs to be thoroughly prepared. These are the levels above "Clear," and their contents are held in strict confidence within Scientology. The highest level, OT VIII, is only disclosed at sea, on the Scientology cruise ship Freewinds. However, since being entered into evidence in several court cases beginning in the mid-1980s, synopses and excerpts of these secret teachings have appeared in innumerable publications.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tami Lamb (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #103) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 5:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

you know- call me a skeptic (Did I spell that correctly?) or call me a realist- but lets see.....keeping a very high profile and wealthy church member happy by bringing his girlfriend on to 'study' (brainwash).....I think that would be a good move by the higher ups......What DO they tell you at sea? That the world isn't flat? That there really isn't any mystery but have another drink with an umbrella in it? That the Donkey sanctuary on Bon is really the center of everything?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5117) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 6:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Very, very interesting, indeed. Who would have known that all the times we have seen the Freewinds in port that it was a Scientology training base operating on the high seas...I never would have guessed that if I hadn't seen it here on BT.

One just never knows, does one?.....hmmmmm. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #319) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 6:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

That the Freewind is a high Scientology training center is known for donkey years. Years ago they went to more islands, but at a lot of them they are not allowed anymore. Scientology is seen by quite a number of countries not as a church but as a dangerous and undemocratic organization.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #13952) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 8:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So is their training in donkey years? Sorry, I had to giggle at that. Brigitte, I'm assuming that was a typo...

Tami, I like the thought that:


quote:

That the Donkey sanctuary on Bon is really the center of everything?




The center of the universe is hidden within the donkey's...That must be why my brain and body didn't "coordinate" so well in March when I had the run in with the blue wall at the Sanctuary...maybe they weren't quite "ready" for me...LOL!...I'm sorry folks, but this just hit my funny bone ;-)

Scientology...to each his/her own, but it sounds like a cult to me...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5118) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 8:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ditto.

I had some friends who got wrapped up in it after HS and went out West....not the best thing they ever did in their lives, either. They were both "lost souls" for years before and, of course, afterwards, too. Not a pretty picture. cb

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By anne hainsworth (BonaireTalker - Post #29) on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 9:30 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Well, I try to be careful about respecting people's "religions" and all, but I have had some unpleasant encounters, and based on what I've read, from the source, it seems like a well-funded organization with enough of a "cosmology" to pass as a "religion." No offense to the pleasant people who practice and go about their business. In other words, if you have enough money, you're good to go. I see a lot of influence from Eastern religion in --some- of their teachings (freeing oneself from inner cosntraints, etc), but I don't see how that made L Ron Hubbard believe we're trapped with souls in a volcano that were brought over in a DC-9 by an ancient intergalactic warlord. Do your own reading on that, because I'm trying to be sensitive and whatnot. Being raised Byzantine Catholic, I'm used to getting guff from people, but Scientologists don't take it well. Did you know that L Ron Hubbard used to cruise the seas (during the tax evasion years) with his own crew that wore silver boots (now on the Freewinds, for real)? I learned about all of this stuff AFTER seeing the boat from Karel's and reading up on it. I like to know what docks within proximity to my bars!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linda Stoltzfus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #593) on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 7:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sounds like total C**P to me !

And speaking of C**P....one fine day while snorkeling off of the southern end of Klein...I was encircled by C**P drifting out to sea from the Freewinds. The Dive Master made a beeline for the Harbor Master's Office and prompty reported their violation. Since that episode I've had a sour taste in my mouth regarding the Freewinds. :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tami Lamb (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #104) on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 1:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If I am to believe correctly- that would have been alien c**p!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By BEVERLY A FILLIO (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #110) on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 6:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

by giving this much attention to Tom Cruise and the Freewinds they have acoomplished their goal to get us curious and wanting to know more. It is nothing more than another hack ripoff hiding behind a religious cape. What is the religion?? What are the beliefs???? Seems to be a brainwashing and take the money and make you a prisioner. There has to be a person to accompany the person who is in training Why?
In case they have doubts. Or a change of heart. Bonaire would do well to be rid of this phony religious entourage
We don't need a new voo doo on Bonaire

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5583) on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 6:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So, if a religion doesn't have a deity that one must believe in purely on faith, it's a hack religion or a cult? :-)

Last I knew, a religion is a belief system which guides how one lives one's life and interacts with the world around them. That doesn't make religion right (to the masses) - just look at all the wars people have started by claiming their religion was better than the other guys' religion.

Jake (who believes all religions should be given a chance, as long as they don't try to impose their values those not interested in them)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #325) on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 7:06 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So what is a church ? Any organization calling itself .... church ????? In Europe the scientology is not accepted as church and have to pay taxes if not forbidden anyhow .... We had some years ago a discussion with some politicians after people from the Freewind came into the Beefeater to hand out pamphlets to our staff and I threw them out (time of the red party) ... for those politicians scientology was a religion and on Bonaire there is liberty of religion .... I would prefere them banned from Bonaire as I have certainly seen to much in the mid and end '8o (when still in Europe) ...some collegues got convinced by Scientology ... after 3 years they had nothing left anymore ... no house, no money just lots of debts in spite of a very good salary ! and one collegue committed suicide and one ended up in an institution.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5584) on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 7:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I suspect Christian missionaries were probably perceived as evil as well when they visited Muslim countries... It's all a matter of perception and weltanschau.

As far as Scientology not accepted as a church in Europe, I suspect that part of that has to do with the fact that mono-deific religions (e.g. Christianity) are rather tied into the political system in many European countries, unlike in the U.S. where there is supposed to be separation of Church and State (although with the current administration the lines are blurring, I think).

Every organized religion has its flaws, and those flaws are frequently multiplied by imperfect followers of those religions (e.g. pedophile priests), and even within a particular overall religion there are divergent beliefs and attitudes (e.g. for Christians: Catholics vs. Protestants in Northern Ireland, for Islam: Sunni vs. Shi'a vs. extremists in Iraq, etc.)

And heck, we haven't even touched on Wicca, Druidism, Buddhism, Hindi, Hare Krishna, and a number of other religions which aren't quite as prevalent.

Should we ban Catholicism because some Catholic priests have used their positions to sexually abuse young boys? Should we ban Wicca because some people don't think nudity belongs in religious ceremonies?

Live and let live, I say. One should be open to discourse about all religions without getting violent or wanting to obliterate/ban/denigrate a religion just because you don't agree with it.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #230) on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 8:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Which is exactly the problem... you're being a nice guy like so many and saying 'live and let live...' Where do you draw the line? Someone pulls up in a big yacht and dumps their waste in your pristine blue waters... you say please don't do that anymore. Then they walk into your restaurant and solicit members and pass out flyers. You say please don't do that anymore. Then they drop an anchor all over your coral reefs, and you say please don't do that anymore. Soon it will be dropping off a couple of jet skis and zooming all over the bay, and more and more...
It isn't about the religion so much as the attitude and non compliance with others liberty and respect for their property and environment. If they stayed to themselves and observed all the laws, nobody would care. It is the same for Jehovah's Witnesses or Islam or Presbyterians.

My .02.

C

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5585) on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So, you're saying they drop anchors on the reef and and dump sewage because they are Scientologists and that's what Scientologists are taught to do (at least indirectly)?

So then, what is the excuse of large cruise ships which - oops - dump garbage "by accident" (and occasionally get nailed)? Or yachties who drop anchor on reefs willy nilly? Or politicians who think it's fine to destroy nature preserves in the quest for sacred oil?

Come on Carl... Aren't you just using Scientology as an excuse to discriminate against the people from the Freewinds when in fact it's only a few handfuls of folks who are responsible for the infractions you mention?

Let's tell all Catholics off because a small number of priests fondle young boys.

Let's lock up all teenagers because some small percentage of them are vandals or push drugs to younger children.

Let's class all people who live on Bonaire as crooks because someone has had their flip flops stolen from their truck at Karpata.

That's the same type argument I see you making - blame the social/religious group and all members of that group for the actions of a few in that group.

The issue is that there are ignorant, abusive, obnoxious, oblivious, malicious, and/or overzealous individuals (not necessarily all at once or in the same person) of every religion, race, creed, size, sex, etc.

Certain habits or stereotypes may certainly be more predominant for certain social groupings (either as a requirement of the grouping, or as a side effect from what the group is all about).

However, it ultimately comes down to the individuals. When we can stop blaming society, religion, groups and other peripheral entities and start holding the actual individuals who cause the problems personally responsible, and account-
able, - that is when we will advance humanity a bit.

I fear that time is a long ways away however.

Just think what happens in the States now when someone feels slighted by someone else. The alleged injured party sues the employer of the "injurer", and not the person who allegedly caused the injury... Same mentality.

Jake (off on a tirade, pardon me)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linda Stoltzfus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #595) on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,
Yes, this is why I mentioned the c**p coming from the ship in my above post.

Tami,
You made me chuckle with your post. :-)


 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #231) on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 8:51 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

No Jake, maybe I'm not clear...

I don't care about Scientology as a religion, the religion part has nothing to do with their alleged lack of respect for local laws and the environment. Maybe the religion does or doesn't believe in eco-friendly practices, it remains that they are allegedly polluting the water, and destroying the reef. My point is not religion based at all, it's just that they must be held to the same standards as the rest of us.

If one of their tenets is to ignore pollution and destroy the environment, it's a problem for those in the area, and right now that's our area, and their ship.

So, again, my point is not to rail against their religion, I don't care, it's to protect our interests here, just as you would if it happened in New Hampshire or Oregon or Bermuda. And the reefs and water is priority one here. :-)

My .04.

C

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5586) on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 9:44 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,

You refer to "them" as a whole. My point is that we have three separate incidents reported:

1) A guy throwing an anchor

2) CR*P floating in the water near the Freewinds

3) A couple of guys going into the Beefeater years ago and annoying Brigitte and her guests.

Items #1 and 3 are individuals. #2 was likely also one person who either intentionally or unintentionally flipped a switch in the boat (presuming the floating crap was from the Freewinds in the first place - evidence we have is anecdotal, but let's assume they are the source). It's also not clear when this happened, and it is something that every large cruise line in the world (with ships full of a lot more crap) has done too at one time or another (and been fined for).

So, we have a distribution of 3 events over a multi-year period, and you translate this as "their alleged lack of respect for local laws and
the environment". Do you actually know what the official Scientology view on the environment is? (I don't - am just asking)

Some Christian sects believe that that man can lay waste to the earth (e.g. wantonly pollute, raze, etc.) because God will fix it all and take care of them in the end, incidentally.

Anyhow, all I'm suggesting is that you don't take three temporally disparate events (all of which apparently implemented by individuals vs. policy, but that's just my opinion based on the meager facts) and then stereotype all people who cruise on the Freewinds based on those events.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #232) on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ok enough said on the subject, I do assume (I'm sure correctly) that we all have the same goal in mind which is eco preservation. I do think though that no matter who it is, after several violations, penalties be invoked (fines, revocation of entry rights, etc.) Maybe this is already a rule.

:-) Have a nice day,

C

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2345) on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:59 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Money is the real religion. Everything else is pap for the saps. Probably exactly what the folks learn on the Freewinds.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5588) on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,

One can only hope that the guilty pay in one way or another :-)

Seb - there ya go!

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly Baum (GDLW) (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2914) on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just so we are all clear on my position, I'm a firm believer in nudity in religious ceremonies. lol.

And Linda.... you aren't supposed to "eat" that cr*p... hee hee... (the "bad taste in my mouth" comment...)

I'm just feeling a little silly today. :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1841) on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 1:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly !!
I think I saw that movie , LOL ..

Sjossss

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mercy Baron (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #150) on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 3:14 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Not to get all mysterious on your a****, but if you guys knew some of the deep dark stuff I knew about scientology...well, you'd all be steering clear of any of them....nuff said.

Not happy to hear that they have a ship docked on my beloved Bon.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Linda Stoltzfus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #596) on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 12:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly,
:-) At least someone got the joke! Just attempting to lighten the topic. BUT I do keep my mouth open when I snorkel...the snorkel doesn't fit otherwise! :-)

And I do remember scrubbing extra hard in the shower after that particular experience!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5129) on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 2:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi, Mercy, my friends I was referring to earlier in this thread moved from NJ to California when they became involved with Scientology....they were never the same after that. Not a good change, either. I have always "wondered" about this group and L. Ron Hubbard's ways....Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #239) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 10:19 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

BTW

I was on Bonaire last week and in the local paper was an article about one of the Freewinds crew being punished for the anchor drop on the reef.

C

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole B. (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5180) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 9:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Good to hear, Carl. Thanks for letting us know. On Bonaire AGAIN??!! Wow! Envy...all green. Carole

 


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