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Local Items: Message from the prosecutor
Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives 2001- 2004: Archives - 2004-07-01 to 2004-12-31: Message from the prosecutor
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan van der List (BonaireTalker - Post #20) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 4:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just had a call from the prosecutor Mr. Ernst Wesselius. He wanted to put a message in Bonaire talk and found out that he needs a username etc.
This takes some time and to save time he asked me to forward his message.

Mr. Wesselius says ; I quote
Message for everybody who is concerned about the violent crimes we have experienced on Bonaire lately.
Last night we have arrested 3 suspects and we have conviscated 3 weapons. Also did we conviscate different other possible crime related materials. The investigation is ongoing and at this point I am very possitive and convident that we shall bring this case to a good end.
I shall do the utmost to bring this case before court as soon as possible. I know that it is important and I know that we will be able to get back the good feelings we all have for Bonaire, its peace and its friendly people.
This morning I informed the victims personally about the progress we have made in this case.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #878) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 4:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for taking the time to post this.....It's a good feeling to know that suspects have been arrested and hopefully brought to justice.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5238) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 5:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan,

Thanks very much for posting.

I think it's also very good to hear/see that what is discussed here on BonaireTalk is deemed important enough for the island prosecutor to want to make sure that we are all directly informed of this rather significant event.

It's definitely much better to get this information directly from the source than via rumor or innuendo.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack burns (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 5:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

jan: you are the bearer of wonderful news. Thank you for taking time to give us the real story.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C Poteet (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #237) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 5:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan -

It would seem appropriate that we who were so vocal in our concern (properly) about this issue make certain that Mr. Wesselius knows, directly, that we applaud and appreciate his and his team's actions.

And, perhaps as important, his direct superiors should know that his good work was noted, literally, around the world.

Would you have an e-dress at which we might write directly to Mr. Wesselius and appropriate superior(s)?

Many thanks.

Charles Poteet
Dallas

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #239) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 5:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I went and posted a link to this information on the Rodale's website in a posting that earlier mentioned the arrest.

Publicity and public outcry can help.

I think we ALL know that Bonaire is just a tiny barrel, and it does not take that many rotten apples to spoil eveything inside.

I will still gladly contribute to a Rope & Stout Tree or Leaky Boat Cast Adrift at Sea fund if anyone wants to get one going.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #129) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 5:53 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Randy,

Isn't the American idea of concrete shoes off a diving vessel feasible? :-)

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Denton (BonaireTalker - Post #74) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 6:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wish we had the same degree of urgency and responsiveness here in Gainesville. Fla.pd

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jan van der List (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 7:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Charles

Mr. Ernst wesselius (prosecutor) email address is ; parketbonaire@bonairelive.com
I think it is a good idea to directly let him know he does a good job. I know that he strongly stimulates police to take action in a case like this.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Josie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #969) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 7:37 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm VERY glad to get this information --- NOW, I'm hoping that punishment will be both swift and appropriate, not a slap on the wrist. I trust we'll be kept informed.

Also, it would be good to know whether the reward had an effect on this capture...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C Poteet (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #238) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 8:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jan -

Thank you for the e-dress for Mr. Wesselius.

I do hope other Bonaire Talkers, from all over, will join me in sending him a strong note of encouragement for his efforts.

We have been very prompt to offer our unsolicited counsel on what needs to be done. Let us be equally prompt in recognizing those on the ground who do the actual work we so earnestly advocated.

Charles Poteet
Dallas

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Myers (BonaireTalker - Post #49) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 8:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Extra $ were contributed to the reward fund. Were these $ of any help in turning in those responsible for the crime? Did the reward of $5000 help in the apprehension of the thugs? If so, a funded reward may be one answer.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #278) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 9:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

C Poteet: already done!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4258) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just sent off an email, as well. Thanks to all who worked hard to arrest these people. We hope there is a swift conviction and a long detainment, as well.

Thank you, Jan, for keeping us posted as to the status of this matter. We truly do appreciate your help! Ayo. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1821) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 8:37 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just sent off a note to the prosecutor. Seems like a good idea also to let the Lt. Gov. know how relieved the international community is.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C Poteet (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #239) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 8:44 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Michael -

Thank you,good idea from someone on the ground.

Would you please provide us with the e-dress and proper form of address for the Lt. Governor?

And I for one would be interested in knowing the e-dresses and titles of any others who should know that the arrests are applauded and appreciated by those who care about Bonaire.

Thank you.

Charles Poteet
Dallas

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #205) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 9:09 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The e-mails from the lt. Governor as well as from the tourism deputy and R.Booi, who is member of the central parlament and the political leader of Bonaire you can find at
http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/36/185176.html?1097964929

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C Poteet (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #240) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:30 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brigitte -

Thank you for the additional suggestions and the e-dresses.

I shall send each an e-mail thanking them for taking care of Bonaire.

Charles Poteet
Dallas

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marlene Robinson (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 9:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I also have sent a letter to the prosecutor, and I want to thank Jake once again for founding this forum.

Bonaire Talk has given so many of us a voice we never would have had without Jake's vision, volunteerism and hard work.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #84) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 9:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just sent my letter! I'm sure all the positive words and the praise are bringing a smile to his face and giving him courage to see justice done. Thank you all. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Blanchard (BonaireTalker - Post #20) on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 6:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I too just sent a message. I hope his office is overwhelmed with responses thanking him for his open communication.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Josie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #970) on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 11:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Mine went yesterday. I really hope these messages show them the level of interest we have in their doing an effective policing job!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The Ginocchio's @ Golden Reef Inn (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #388) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 9:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

So did mine Josie, et al. I just hope many voices do matter.

Liz

(Message edited by dvrliz1 on November 1, 2004)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #249) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 10:35 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I sent mine as well. Thanks for the information on email addresses. Let's hope this makes a difference in the future. Debbie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Wightman (BonaireTalker - Post #43) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 3:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just sent a note of gratitude to the prosecutor. I really believe that without this group we would not have such positive results-thanks Jake and Linda!!-again, where would we be without you??

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5245) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 4:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Not sure where you'd be, Dennis :-)

And I'm not sure where I'd be other (other than maybe getting less grief but also meeting many fewer great people).

On the "getting grief" side of things, I've heard from two different folks on island in the last couple of days that I'm being personally blamed by some local business people (no idea who) for Bonaire being cast in a rather unfavorable light on "the Internet" recently because of the attack on Barbara and Albert and other crimes reported by the victims here on BonaireTalk.

My "crime", apparently, is having started, and then assisting in the on-going operation of BonaireTalk as an open, uncensored forum for people to discuss Bonaire.

Not that this is anything new, mind you - Linda and I used to actually get blamed for crime on Bonaire regularly by a handful of very vocal (and clueless) individuals when we wrote about it in the Bonaire E-News (see http://www.bonaireenews.com for back issues prior to our canning it about 4 years ago) - the thinking was that petty theft didn't exist until we started writing news items about it (regardless of the huge variety of other sources of information on the topic - sources not obvious to the vocal minority because they only read about the Internet and BonaireTalk in particular in the local newspapers and thus don't know about www.scubadiving.com, rec.diving.locations, and countless other more rabid discussion and news groups). Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. It's that whole ostrich head in the sand thing again.

People always need to find blame somewhere, and we're a convenient target since the actual targets (the criminals) are harder to find to put blame on, and when they do find them they are not sure how to blame them for Internet postings about their actions... :-)

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1956) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 4:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Some people are idiots. You and Linda have done such a great thing for the island. If those people are reading this, we will NOT be dissuaded. We will keep doing what we are doing, and try to make (keep) Bonaire a safe place for visitors as well as the residents.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The Ginocchio's @ Golden Reef Inn (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #389) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 5:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake,

How ridiculous that people would blame you! I believe that if we didn't have this forum, many of us would not know what is going on, ergo, we would not be able to respond to government agencies and individuals on Bonaire to voice our concern and opinions.

Liz

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Long (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #103) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 5:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake, if I remember right a few had full-time jobs, maybe they worked for those local business people. See you later this month.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1570) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 5:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Is the preference to keep the problem "quiet" so it goes away? I think positive energy and a team approach / working together works better. And look at all who are now writing POSITIVES to thank the officials..there is a nice balance here..I also appreciate Brigitte keeping us posted on the other side of the news front in SXM and other publications.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denise Kacavas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #868) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 5:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ha, true example of shoot the messenger :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #207) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 7:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake, I don't think there are that many people on Bonaire anymore who want to keep the head in the sand and have comments like "don't wash dirty laundry in public" --- I remember the time 6 to 4 years ago very well , and there were a lot of comments (some rather rude) 4 years ago when Marion and I organized the signature collection (more than 2000 in 1 week) ... and than only 4 months later there was the protest march organized by the buisiness association (more than 5000 people) ... I really think by now most people understood, and let's forget about the others, some people will never learn.
In the Extra of today is a small article about mails received congratulsting Wesselius for the good work

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Wightman (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 8:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake-you know the old saying "no good deed goes unpunished" so anytime you do wonderful things in any society there will be the irrational backlash of those who want total control-I believe they call that fascism-thank goodness Bonaire is an open society-you just don't realize how much "power of the press" you now wield-of course that is a threat-unfortunatley lots of folks like to operate in darkness and because you shed such a bright light the little rodents are exposed-keep up the wonderful, important work you do for all of us please!-if not for you we would have learned as much as we did about Bonaire,would not have visited the island, bought a home there, spread the word about our favorite place or spent lots of U.S dollars there-and I'm sure we are just a sample of the longe range positive effect of this group on Bonaire and all of us who love it.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #584) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 9:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Perhaps the nay-sayers should realize that many people including Eva and I came to Bonaire the first time because of BT. After Eva got certified we began looking for a place to vacation and I had basically settled on St. Kitts and Nevis but was having difficulty finding information. I lurked and read on BT for a half a year. The site for St. Kitts was just a little e-bulletin board.
I read all about the petty crime at dive sites and the appropriate precautions to take. I read about the signature petition and the downtown march.
And I decided that all islands have their problems to lesser or mostly greater extent, but here was an island and a group of people that were vocal and proactive and had this really great forum to get info and what, when, where and how to enjoy the island. So armed with knowledge I came to Bonaire.
And we have now visited here for 3 14-day vacations and sent our teenagers down by themselves for 30 days.
As we always come at Christmas, we do a lot of next year's shopping while we are here. Wonder if we shopped with any of the ostriches. :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12558) on Monday, November 1, 2004 - 9:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wally, ditto for us...found out about Bonaire from BT. Of course, some people are generally going to blame and point fingers first (and in this case, totally incorrect), before they sing praises and thanks. I wonder if "they" ever think about all of the good things that Jake and Linda have done for Bonaire (and have thanked them for them), for example, not only bringing tourists to the island through BT and the cams (thanks Dan and Faith too)...and for SupportBonaire.org, and all of the money and time BT'ers have donated to organizations on Bonaire...for instance:

1. Sister Maria Hoppner's Foundation
2. Jong Bonaire
3. Donkey Sanctuary
4. Turtle Foundation
5. STINAPA

I don't know if the Cinnamon Art Gallery is on that list, but they are highlighting LOCAL artists that my have never gotten such great exposure.

So, once again, thank you Jake, Linda, Dan and Faith for providing the cams, and BT...and providing a place for free speech.

Rant off!

(Message edited by cyndelee on November 1, 2004)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #254) on Tuesday, November 2, 2004 - 8:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake and Linda,

Ditto for me too. Cynde said it all and I feel the same way. I came to Bonaire to explore the diving and knew nothing about BT then. Loved the island and came home and decided to do a little research on Bonaire and found BT! It was so interesting to see a site that you can chat, get info and I mean really good info, I have found places to eat I never knew existed, to dive, to snorkel, the list goes on from this site. I have made many friends here that I hope to meet someday either on Bonaire or here in the States. I believe that BT has touched a lot of people's hearts and can't thank Jake and Linda enough for all that they do and all the time involved in keeping this going. THANKS JAKE AND LINDA !!!
WE LOVE YOU!!!! :-) :-) :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Louise Rozario (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Tuesday, November 2, 2004 - 11:02 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I've added my e-note to the prosecutor. I'm very glad to hear about this step in the right direction. Thanks to all of you who help!
Louise

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Cousino (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1175) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 11:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I e-mailed the prosecutor as well.

During our recent trip (10-24 Oct), Smack and I had our rental truck rummaged at 1000 Steps. Stolen were two rental cylinders of WDB, a pack of Smack's smokes (mine were not worthy of stealing) and a small amount of loose change which was in the console. We did file a report at the Police Station.

Folks, At the same time our "open" vehicle was robbed a young couple had their vehicle broken into and suffered significant losses at the same site. They had:

(1) Rolled up all windows and locked the vehicle.
(2) Left many valuables including wallet/purse in it.
(3) Never visited BT.

Now I may be a "Cheerleader", but I believe I benefit from this forum because over the past four years I have:

(1) Been informed of better ways of getting to Bonaire.
(2) Discovered good restaurants, stores and service providers.
(3) Enjoyed many photos of Bonaire's marine life.
(4) Kept up to date of day to day events.
(5) Increased my "Bonaire" diving experiences.
(6) Been educated on "Do's and Don'ts" when visiting.
(7) Met some interesting people.
(8) Made some good friends.

End of rant.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #88) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 4:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Tom, nothing beats getting informed before visiting new areas. As lamentable as this situation is, I hope the victims admit that they were at fault as much as the crooks and don't come crying "someone should've informed us!" Thanks for keeping it objective. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanf (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1018) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 4:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Another indication that there's more that needs to be done: according to today's Bonaire Reporter (the news reached them as they went to press), Raja Daou and his wife (owner of Garden Cafe) were attacked and robbed by three men on Tuesday evening, November 2nd, after closing time.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1972) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Izzy, I hope you mean the theft from the vehicle and not the subject of this thread. I'm sure we agree that those victims were in no way at fault. Certainly, we can all take precautions to safeguard ourselves, families and valuables; however, when criminals do strike, it is in no way the fault of the victim. While I certainly agree that at times people sure do make it easier for the criminals, no fault should be placed on the crime victims.

Whoa. Rant off. lol

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Belinda Z (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #207) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ahem

Coach Izzy,

If I leave my purse in a locked car you are saying that I am as responsible for its theft as the thief who stole it? I think NOT!

That's like saying if I wear "sexy" clothes I'm as responsible for my rape as my rapist.

Or saying that by living in a nice neighborhood and having expensive items I'm responsible for someone breaking into my house and beating me beyond recognition.

The thief is TOTALLY responsible for breaking into my locked car and stealing my stuff.

Stop making excuses for them.

By the way, I am not the person who had things stolen out of their locked car - I'm just writing in first person because it makes it easier to understand.

Belinda

(I hope I have written in complete enough sentences to suit you Izzy)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Belinda Z (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #208) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly,

We were posting at the same time and your rant is much more succinct and to the point than mine. Very well stated.

Belinda

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1973) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Belinda, I work with domestic violence victims, (and used to be a rape crisis intervention specialist), and if I hear one more time today "it was my fault and I want to drop charges" I'm going to SCREAM! Good Grief people !

Very rarely do I make my private opinions public on BT or anywhere else in public; however, I felt I needed to make a comment about that.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Belinda Z (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #209) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

WOW Kelly,

You are obviously one totally awesome person to deal with that kind of awful stuff daily and still be able to so carefully and non-confrontationally (is that a word?) comment on such a topic. You are my idol!! I don't know how you do it.

I for one always welcome your private opinions for the reasons stated in my previous paragraph.

Thanks again for so clearly stating the obvious.

I'm in awe of you - WOW again!

And thanks for undertaking such a difficult job (with I'm sure far too little appreciation).

Belinda

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1974) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Belinda... please, I'm blushing. lol

I'm hardly awesome, just a glutton for punishment!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denise Kacavas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #880) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan ... thanks for the update Denise

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #880) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan,
Hmmm...another attack?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1975) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I can't believe another attack. If/when anyone gets details, if you could post them, I know we would all appreciate it.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12565) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 6:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I am really really really sorry to hear about this. I'm glad I have until January to pull the plug on our March trip. If we weren't taking the kids, it would be a no brainer...but I can't take any chances with them...very sad indeed.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #89) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 6:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly & Belinda, (Belinda more than Kelly) Please do read what is posted there. I'm emphasizing here "GETTING INFORMED". Belinda, your example is completely irrelevant to the situation. Please READ (not just glance) before jumping the gun! A better analogy would be "Diving into the pool without finding out how deep it is". Leaving your purse in your car makes you responsible? Let's see... If you were to park in the projects in Paterson, well, then what do you think? If you park in your neighborhood... then you assume that you are safe! Same with the impertinent sexy clothes analogy... where did that come from anyway??? And how does that excuse criminals? How did I justify such behavior? Were you even thinking before posting that sour, emotional reply? If you want to debate, that's fine. I do enjoy a good debate in which both parties present appurtenant arguments, however, I saw none of that in your reply. Kelly, in this case, I believe that Tom & Smack are victims. Even with the precautions they took, mundane objects were taken. Now as far as the other victims, the ones who left valuables in a locked vehicle, when ALL of us know what will happen, with warning stickers in rentals.. Well, isn't there a lot of info available? Would you say that they did a thorough research and really took all the necessary precautions? My referring to the "Not my fault, nobody informed us" was more for an older posting in which the poster did something similar, and posted in all caps, blaming everyone else, and failing to take responsibility for their lack of info. THAT IS MY POINT! If you do not agree, that is fine, I welcome your opinions as long you argue with good analysis rather than emotions. Thanks and good health. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #90) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 6:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Cynde, I know exactly how you feel. My wife and I had decided to skip the island for a while, but after much discussion we decided to return. We still don't quite know yet when. It was hard, but then again, it is only the two of us. With kids, that's a whole different sport. Like I said previously, we will take the same precautions that saw us safe in January, perhaps even more this time. Hopefully things will be improved. I like to be optimistic, but I'm more on the realistic side, so we won't let our guards down. There are quite a few people to whom we are grateful and we'd love to see again, not to mention how we love the unique atmosphere of Bonaire. Good luck! Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanf (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1019) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 6:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Coach Izzy,

I READ your post, and interpreted it the same way: blame the victim. Perhaps you should reevaluate your communication skills.

All of US, who read BT, may know better. However, Tom said the victims of the thieves had not heard of BT. Perhaps you should refrain from chastising others for not reading your post? It seems to be a matter of pot/kettle/black here.

Also, not all rental vehicles in Bonaire have warning stickers in them - I know for a fact the the last two we rented did NOT. Please do not assume that YOUR experience reflects a universal fact.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1976) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 6:57 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I don't think that anyone is less of a victim than someone else, merely because they failed to take the precautions of a reasonable person. I agree, I wouldn't leave my purse in the car at a dive site in Bonaire. I just don't believe that someone would be less of a victim because they DID leave their purse in their car. I don't think, personally, that one person is less of a victim than another because of failed (or lack of) precautionary measures. A victim is a victim. Can we make it more difficult for the criminal to steal from us? Certainly! But (IMHO) it isn't the responsibility of the general public to keep crimes from happening. I'm afraid I'm not being very articulate here... I hope somewhere in that jumble of words, you can understand my point. I understand yours, I just don't agree with it. ;)

Tom, I am sorry you had things stolen. Tell Smack that's his sign to stop smoking. lol

Signed,
The tree-hugging, non-smoking, granola-crunching victim's rights zealot

JUST KIDDING! Having a bad day here and am trying to amuse myself. (and Cynde with the granola comment).

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Belinda Z (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #210) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 7:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Izzy,

Unfortunately I did read your post - more than once and each time I was more incredulous than the previous reading.

My stuff is my stuff and someone taking it is WRONG regardless of where I have it.

Thieves are ALWAYS in the wrong regardless of who or where they steal from - stealing is stealing.

Punish the thieves instead of the victims and perhaps there will be less crime.

Doesn't it make you sad to see all the bars being installed on windows in Bonaire? Whose fault is that? The people who own the houses? In the real world, the thieves are to blame for this sad trend and if the thieves were punished then this sad state of affairs would not be necessary.

Blaming the victims is just as bad as stealing from them.

Belinda

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1977) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 7:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I guess what I'm trying to say is that at least from a legal standpoint, there are rarely, if ever, mitigating factors when it comes to sentencing a defendant. If you did it, and you are found guilty, it will not come into play that the person left their purse in a locked (or unlocked for that matter) vehicle. There is never a point when the defendant can say, "but Judge, she left the purse RIGHT THERE for me to steal it". You steal it, you are the defendant. If you own the purse, you are the victim. Yes, it is an extreme analogy, but if you rape, you are the rapist. You do not have the right to say "but your Honor, she was wearing a short skirt, you should have seen it!".

Good grief, I am rambling again. I guess it must be time to go home. LOL

Have a good night all. Maybe by tomorrow the Gods of Articulate Speech will have visited me in my slumber.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #91) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 7:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly! BRAVO!! I love your reply and I DO respect your opinion. I believe our approaches differ based on our life experiences. Incidentally, I forgot to commend you for the labor that you do. In those cases against human dignity, I support you 100% that ALL are victims. You deal with that sort of thing everyday and that makes you more sensible. In my field, I deal daily with people who want to blame everyone else for their sorry state of health and physical being, yet do very little about it. I have learned to be VERY direct, but respectful, and as much as it shocks people the first time, they know I don't lie to them. Thanks again for your intelligent reply, best of luck, and may your higher power grant you the mental endurance that you need to provide the victims with the compassion and support they need. Respectfully, Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12566) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 7:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kelly, thanks for the granola:-)

Smack, I agree with Kelly, "this is your sign" put the smokes down and walk away...walk away...

Coach Izzy, I have no quams about going to Bonaire right now, or 6 months from now. My husband and I know what chances we are taking (just like going to any other country). If we don't take the kids in March, we will most likely go by ourselves and even stay longer:-) and take the kids somewhere else that we would feel more comfortable letting them go places by themselves (they are 16 and 18). Again, I haven't made my mind up yet, and I'm sure we will ponder for a couple more months and see what happens with the situation Bonaire is dealing with right now.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #92) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 7:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Belinda! I agree with you 100%. NOBODY has the right to touch your stuff... EVER... NOBODY has the right to lay a finger on you... EVER, and yes, punishing the criminals properly would deter crime. Unfortunately, in the real world, ALL legal systems are tangled-up in bureaucracy, and trying to bring justice to victims usually brings more grief to them than any sense of justice. I also agree that it is sad the houses bear the bars that should be in front of the criminal's faces. However, and this is were we disagree, facilitating a crime due to unawareness, which could've been prevented... two wrongs don't make a right. In this world where we live, we unfortunately are better-off being on the cautious side as opossed to just letting go. Belinda, I will conclude this by saying that we have different points of view, but I respect your convictions. You have every right to voice your opinion (as you just eloquently did) and so I. The catastrophic failure that the Bonaire PD has been until recently, it's just one more reason to take even more precautions than before. Thank you and good health. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1741) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 8:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think punishing criminals is a really dumb idea. I think having criminals make restitution to people for their transgressions makes much more sense.
Should anyone touch you or your stuff? No. Does securing your stuff in a devil-may-care manner make you complicit in it's theft? Maybe. Locks are made to keep honest men honest. That is why some places have laws against entrapment.

"Under the right circumstances Mr. Gittes, anyone - is capable of - anything."

-John Huston in "Chinatown" (-Robert Towne)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #93) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 8:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

EASY Seb! I don't think there's a need to address opinions with the derogatory "dumb" moniker. You don't agree that's fine. There are many approaches. I for one favor punishment, preferably delivered by yours truly. However that's unrealistic and will get me in as much trouble as the perpetrator (the self-defense argument does not hold much anymore unfortunately) So I will let the Justice (snicker) system do its thing. Since you brought it up, how would you make criminals provide with restitutions? Fines? Community Service? Most criminals (the ones implied here anyway) wouldn't be able to give back anything.. No disrespect, just curious. Good luck! Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4275) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 8:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan, thanks for the info on Raja and his wife. My head is shaking back and forth....hopefully we will have more information on this attack. This is horrible.

Play nice, kiddies! (don't attack, me...I'm just "reading" the posts, not participating in the discussion above....I have plenty of confrontation all day long at my place of work..not geared for it just now)cb

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #96) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 9:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carol, I just read Al's posting and I could not believe it either. I will not elaborate more until more facts are available. Once again, my sentiments to the poor victims who were only earning their honest daily bread. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanf (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1020) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 10:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Al? Who's Al? I posted about Raja about 22 posts up. It happened last night (Tuesday) and had a small insert in the Bonaire Reporter, due to it's being late-breaking news.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1743) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 10:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Izzy, punishment would be great if it had any beneficial effect. In the US, many violent criminals are released so non violent drug offenders can be kept in jail for their federally required mandatory sentences. I wasn't calling anyones opinion dumb, I was calling the whole idea of criminal punishment is a failed solution.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #208) on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 11:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I don't know how to copy a pdf file, so just a link
http://www.adcaribbean.com/PDF/P09.pdf
That is the article about the robbery of a hand bag on the street (close to Telbo, so also close to the police office !!) from a women by three guys on on scooters (1 white, 2 yellow). The women did not let go directly of the bag so was dragged a few meters ... later in the evening at a snack the scooter was signaled, police went there but the guy on the scooter left. Police followed him till he took a very small dirt road where the police car could not follow. One of the three is known to the police ....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #206) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 7:55 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

We just returned from Bonaire on Sunday. We are currently scheduled to return in April. Prior to my departure I came down on the side of going to Bonaire regardless of the criminal activity I was reading about on Bonaire Talk - I refused to yield to thugs and still do. This trip was no different than any other. We did not feel anymore threatened now than we did 4 years ago when we started our yearly trips to Bonaire. I spent some time in the Lost Penguin last Saturday discussing this situation with a couple of locals. They were taken aback that there were people who were willing to either cancel their trips or not schedule a trip at all to Bonaire because of the crime situation. They couldn't understand why people would do this to Bonaire when this sort of crime happens just about everywhere; they argued that, yeah, it happened but it was rare on Bonaire compared to many other places. I agreed with them. We followed the well known security procedures on our vehicles and equipment and noone bothered us. I may have my head in the sand but I can tell you that that sand is gonna be in Bonaire!! The countdown to April has begun!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J.J zambrano mazzei (BonaireTalker - Post #71) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 9:38 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

marcus....I`m agree with you, yesterday I went to curacao and at the bonairexel airlines offices two italian travellers canceled a trip to Bonaire because the crime situation, the crime is everywhere in the world but as you said "it happened but it was rare on Bonaire compared to many other places".

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #350) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 10:30 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Marcus, my response to you and to the locals is the same as a comment I made about the difficulty travelling to Bonaire:

Those of us who get only the occasional break from work tend to like vacations to be a way to relieve stress. When the travel to and from vacation raises stress levels above daily levels, the vacation isn't a vacation.

The stress of worrying about breakins while on vacation is similarly an added stress that the vacationer would prefer to avoid.

That the crime rate per-capita is similar to elsewhere is not the issue. If there is no escaping the stress of a crime-riddled society, then so be it. We'll all settle for the "apparent" security of the TSA inspections and police who at least take police reports and investigate.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #209) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 10:36 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

You mean they stayed on Curacao because it is saver there??? What a joke !!!! Last week end on Curacao 3 murders, 3 armed robberies, 7 atrakos, 1 rape and nobody has any idea how many break ins .... and these figures are more or less the same every week end ....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mary Mueller (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3345) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 10:37 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Susan - Thanks for posting the info on the attack of Raja and his wife. I will look at the reporter to get more information.

I do want to know from anyone on the island if they are okay and what effort is being made to find their attackers.

In the meantime my thoughts and prayers go to them right now - as I am sure they will need that from all of us to help recover.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #207) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 10:49 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Daniel: That's my point. I didn't expirience any of the stress you are refering to while I was on Bonaire last week; therefore, I encourage others not to cancel or avoid Bonaire based on what they are reading on Bonaire Talk - Find out for yourself.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #141) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 12:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Some news about the attack on Raja and Esperanza.

We heard the story directly from the sister of Esperanza, she also works in Garden Cafe. We visited them this morning.

Papa Pasku (Raja) was not involved in the attack, he is in Venezuela.

The attack on Raja and Esperanza, is actually the same as the attack described in the post of Brigitte Kley, 03 nov. 11:36pm.
The attacked woman was Esperanza (Raja's wife) and her sister, walking home from Garden Cafe, after working hours. They had been followed by the two or three scooters for a while.
She got hurt on several places, (arms, hands, legs, face) because she was dragged some 3 meters. The hospital took good care of her. As far as we understood, the attackers weren't in the possibility to take her handbag, because she didn't let it loose. So they didn't get any money.
According to her sister, Esperanza is doing OK now, but still has a lot of pain, and she is supposed to be in Garden Cafe again tonight, where we will visit her. So tomorrow you will get more information here.
According to information of Esperanza's sister one of the suspects has been taken in prison.

Esperanza and her sister visited the Island-commander, who told them that he is busy to form a special task-force to be put on these kind of cases. (I hope he can keep this promise....)

I tried my best to give a correct report her, to let our fellow-BT'ers know what is going on on Bonaire, and be sure the three criminals from the Sabadeco-attack are not the only one busy here.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1982) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 12:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, thank you so much for that information. Good for her for not letting her purse go! I know we are taught to let them take whatever they want, since resisting can get you hurt worse, but you just don't know what you will do until you are faced with that situation. One thing I have read though and want to pass along is that when someone tries to grab your purse, you are supposed to throw it away from you, and then when they go for the purse, run like heck in the opposite direction. Like I said, it's hard to know what you'll do in any given situation, but I thought I'd just throw that out there. Sometimes our survival is dependent on a split-second decision.

Thanks again, Harrie, and please do keep us informed.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mary Mueller (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3347) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 1:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie - thanks for updating us.

Please keep us posted on how Esperanza is doing.

Kelly - I have read the same thing about throwing the purse/wallet away from you and running in the opposite direction.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1752) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 1:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Anybody know if pepper spray or mace is legal on Bonaire?
Harrie, thanks for the news.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #97) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 3:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What a brave, brave person. Refusing to yield to thugs means that the people are already getting fed-up with the situation, and Esperanza showed a lot of courage. Like Kelly says, None of us knows how we will react when faced with similar circumstances, but I will take my hat off to Esperanza and wish her a prompt recovery. The police also seems to be taking the right steps. Thank you Harry for the report. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #98) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 3:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, I just misspelled your name in my previous post. D'oh! My apologies. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #130) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 4:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Please give the best from Carl and Patty to Esperanza. She and Raja and the crew at Garden are some of our favorite people on Bonaire, very genuine and sincere. We eat there at least twice per trip and usually spend hours talking with them after the place closes. Very sad to hear about this story. Crime hits even harder when you know the people involved.

Sounds like three more people we can drop off at sea in a leaky canoe.

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12569) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 4:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, thank you for the update. Please tell Esperanza that we wish her a speedy recovery, and that the police catch these guys/gals.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #210) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 7:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

There is in the Amigoe from today the information that Bonaire is going to have a coordinator for security working directly under the lt.Governor. Prevention of crime and drugs is his first duty. His name is Sharlon Willems and he as the professional education and experience from living and working in Holland. Part of the job will be the implementation of police presence in the different barios of Bonaire, as was said in the raport de Windt ( my comment: I think this was 4 years ago). With this action Bonaire wants to take the prevention in its own hands but will still depend for crime repression on police and justice
I paste the total article in Dutch below .....


Gezaghebber Bonaire stelt veiligheidscoördinator aan
4 Nov, 2004, 4:21pm

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KRALENDIJK — In een speciale persconferentie op het bestuurskantoor meldde gezaghebber Herbert Domacassé gistermiddag dat er op korte termijn een speciale veiligheidscoördinator aangesteld zal worden. Deze coördinator zal worden belast met criminaliteits- en drugspreventie in de breedste zin des woords en valt als eilandsfunctionaris officieel onder het kabinet van de gezaghebber.


Sharlon Willems, voormalig lid van het Korps Politie Bonaire, zal het kabinet van de gezaghebber gaan versterken als de nieuwe veiligheidscoördinator. Willems heeft een criminologie-achtergrond en was in Dordrecht reeds betrokken bij de uitvoering van zaken als anti-crime-teams en een wijkaanpak. Het is de nadrukkelijke wens van de gezaghebber een dergelijke wijkaanpak ook op Bonaire te implementeren.

Zijn allereerste taak wordt beleidsformulering en fondsenwerving. Het is de bedoeling dat hij in samenspraak met alle relevante organisaties zal komen tot een inventarisatie van de problematiek en de preventiemogelijkheden op het eiland. Hieronder valt ook het bijdragen aan een bewustmakingsproces bij de bevolking, drugsvoorlichting en het creëren van een soort advies- en informatiecentrum voor bezorgde ouders. “In principe kunnen ouders van tieners die in de problemen komen vrijwel nergens terecht. Ook wordt er op het gebied van drugspreventie middels voorlichtingsactiviteiten niet of nauwelijks iets gedaan op het eiland. Als we van Bonaire weer een veilig en leefbaar eiland willen maken zal hier beslist verandering in moeten komen. Ik heb gemeend hier op korte termijn de schouders onder te moeten zetten in de vorm van de aanstelling van deze speciale veiligheidscoördinator. Gelukkig werd ik hierin door het volledige college gesteund. De aanstelling van een dergelijke coördinator was trouwens ook een aanbeveling die werd beschreven in het rapport van Commissie De Wijs. Zoals ik al eerder zei is de tijd van wachten op de centrale overheid voorbij. Met de instelling van deze coördinator wil Bonaire op het gebied van criminaliteitspreventie zelf de touwtjes in handen te nemen. Voor wat betreft de criminaliteitsrepressie blijven we voorlopig echter aangewezen op politie en justitie”, aldus de gezaghebber.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marabeth Owens (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #338) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 7:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just love www.freetranslation.com. I can take your article, paste it, translate from Dutch to English and then make the best out of it. My Dutch leaves much to be desired.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #211) on Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 7:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Marabeth please do so, I have no idea how that works - my translation is just the most important points in short version

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marabeth Owens (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #341) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 11:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Actually Brigitte your translation is much better than what happens with freetranslation.com. That just puts more details but reads the way the words are written. Since you are multi-lingual you know that how sentences are put together in languages differ - red sweater in English is sweater of red in Spanish, etc. but alas freetranslation would put sweater of red. But at least you can get the gist of what is being said.

I'll stick to your translations Brigette and I thank you for doing that for us all.

Mara

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #143) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 2:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We had dinner at Garden Cafe, yesterday. Food was good as usual, as was the service. Esperanza was back in the kitchen with one hand in bandages. She is doing OK, and has lots to tell about the attack. I gave her the best wishes of all the BT'ers and Carl, Patty & Cynde in special. Not more details available, life is going on again.

I was very disturbed about her remark that she has had several anonymous telephone-calls, of people who told her she better draw back her complaint against the people who had attacked her. Even threatening calls, she said. If things work this way on Bonaire, it is time for big changes....

There are lot of other versions of Esperanza's story circulating on Bonaire, and I don't really know which one is the right one. This morning I heard that it is not true that one of the suspects was taken into prison, but that the police just knows of one person who was involved, but that they hadn't catched him. I don't know.

Some other interesting news is the above-mentioned safety-coordinator, and the story in Bonaire-Reporter (and I heard it on several other places too) that help is coming from a group of Dutch Marechaussees (Military Police), who would be coming to help Bonaire solve the safety issues. If this just could be true, it is marvellous news. These guys are well-trained and have at least no family-connections on the island, which is supposed to be one of the reasons of low results on crime-solving here.

Wherever you come and talk to people, everybody is concerned and busy with this problem, all in their own way and within their own possibilities. Let's hope that now finally a solution will be found on this growing problem of unsafety.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12573) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 2:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, thank you for the update, and for relaying a speedy recovery to Esperanza. To have this happen, and then to have the phone calls to her, I can only imagine how she is coping and dealing...VERY disturbing indeed. I wish I could give her a big hug, and kick those bass tards right where it counts!

I hope you're right about the Dutch Marechaussees coming to help, please keep us posted. Bonaire is so special to so many of us, the people that live there especially...they don't deserve this, and the police/government need to get their collective you know whats in gear and fast....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By monique van berge henegouwen (BonaireTalker - Post #27) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 5:28 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here is the English version from Amigoe:

Mayor appoints security-coordinator

BONAIRE – The Mayor indicated during a special press conference that he will soon assign a special security-coordinator in the person of Sharlon Willems, a former police officer, who will be in charge of criminality- and drug prevention and will report to the cabinet of the Mayor. Willems has a criminology background and had worked as part of anti-crime-teams in Dordrecht . The Mayor wants to implement such teams in the districts. Willems will have to formulate a policy, accumulate funds, talk to relevant organizations and so list the problems and the prevention possibilities on the island, contribute to an awareness process, give drug information and create a kind of advice- and information center for concerned parents. The entire governing board supports the Mayor’s proposition. Bonaire is not going to wait any longer for the central government to tackle this problem. They are going to do it themselves. With regard to criminality restraint, they will have to rely on police and justice.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #144) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 5:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for the translation, Monique, I was just about to post a translation, but yours was earlier.
In stead of that translation I will post the text of the Marechaussees, as printed in the Bonaire Reporter of yesterday:

"The Bonaire District Attorney had earlier announced that 10 Marechaussees, Dutch paramilitary police, will be assigned temporarily to Bonaire to assist the local police force."

This is really big news!! Can't wait till they are here....

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #145) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 6:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

For people living on Bonaire:

Don't forget to visit the meeting on Monday 8th of November 7:00 pm at the International Bible Church on Kaya Amsterdam (across Trans World Radio). Michael Bijkerk, political activist and lawyer, will explore practical solutions to the communities concerns about crime and accountability. Translators will be on hand....

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #213) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 6:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have not seen the Bonaire Reporter, so I don't know where this info about 10 Marechaussees coming to Bonaire is coming from. The last news about it was in the Extra last week Friday I think. Big articel from the head of the customs and a big one from the DA ... they want also 10 Marechaussees, but only Hato, the airport in Curacao, will get 10. And they find that not right, as there are also 2 flights daily to from South America to Amsterdam via Bonaire. And nothing sice in any of the local news papers.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #214) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 9:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Big article in Prensa and Extra about the crime meeting from Wednesday. The headline in both :The work of the police lets much to desire!
Different citiziens tell their stories, Tjin and Barbara+Albert, Ingrid and several more. And none has anything good to tell about the police.
Last phrase: No representative of the police was present.
The crime meeting had been announced on 2 different days in the local papers (Papiamento) and 1 time in the Dutch language news papers.
Today was for the 2nd time a little article about the meeting coming Monday (see above from Harrie Cox)in the Extra

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #146) on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 10:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Cynde,

What about letting me do the hugging, while you do the kicking?

LOL

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #131) on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 10:37 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'll bring my steel tipped boots. :-) I still like the idea of towing them out to sea in a
leaky canoe; maybe cut off a finger to attract some of the more vicious sea life out there? :-)

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4285) on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 12:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm with you, Carl! Carole

PS Maybe they make pointy steel tipped boots now??!! LOL.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12576) on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 3:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, you got it...Carl, can I borrow your boots? I think it would make much more of an "impact."

I am shocked to hear that there were no police present at the meeting. That is completely unacceptable (unless they were busy rounding up criminals on scooters)...absoulutely outrageous. For those that attended, was there any significant outcome to the meeting?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #216) on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 3:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think the idea of the meeting was to get info out what has happend in the passed months even years ... and healing through talking .... the meeting Monday is supposed to be more orientated on the practical side ... what can you do to protect yourself, who can be held responsible, what can we do in the future

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12578) on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 4:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brigitte, thank you for the clarification of the purpose of the meeting. My sincere thoughts go out to everyone, and as I stated before, that things will start moving in a positive direction.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #149) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 3:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

An update upon (the attack on) Esperanza from Garden Cafe.

We visited her monday evening. She is doing well, and the bandages were gone. Until this far that was the good news. Now the bad news.....

She told us that she had heard nothing from the police anymore (as usual here). She also knows that the boys that attacked her, are still walking around. Only the scooters had been confiscated, because they were stolen. She knows at least the name and address of one of the boys, and told it to the police, but probably this is not enough information to get them in custody. She also told that at least one of the kids is a child of people that work for the government. Perhaps this is an explanation.

Another correction, the boys took indeed money of her, some NAf 600,--, they didn't get her whole purse, but could take the money out of it, at the moment she was getting the keys of her house out of it.

It is sad that the boys are still walking around freely, that nothing is happening to get them in jail, and that Esperanza doesn't get any further information from the police or other officials.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kelly (Lott) Baum (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2009) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 3:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe we all need to email the prosecutor again? Just a thought. This is such an outrage.

Thank you Harrie for all your information and for keeping us updated.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #336) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 3:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm with Kelly, here. If Esperanza knows the identity of one of those boys, what on earth is the problem since she was the one attacked and she can i.d. the boy? Sounds like a no brainer for the police, yet, they still sit on their hands? There has been a crime, money stolen, and she knows the i.d. of one of them. So, now what, if you have a child who steals and parents work for the government, it is o.k. to look the other way? What if that boy decides he can use a gun next time, nothing will happen because of who his parents are? Real bad message being sent out there, that's what I see. His parents should make him return the money as well. Shame on Bonaire Police, again. This is truly a shame. :-(

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12600) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 6:29 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Harrie, thanks for the update...I say an email campaign is in order again...I don't have a lot of time to search now, but does anyone remember the thread that Brigitte posted all of the addresses?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kari siami (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 6:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Cindy:
I think you refered to these addresses:

Gedeputeerde van Tourism:
Burney Elhage
elhage@bonairelive.com
Bestuurskantoor
Plasa Wilhelmina
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-4020


Gezaghebber Herbert Domacasse:
gezag@bonairelive.com
Bestuurskantoor
Plasa Wilhelmina
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-5330 tst. 220

Ramonsito Booi ( Statenlid)
rtbooi@bonairelive.com
Ministerraad Bonaire
J.A. Abraham Blvd.
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-5330 tst 117/118

Extra Bonaire
E-mail Address(es):
extrabon@telbonet.an

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #217) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 6:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

please add one more papiamento news paper to that
Ultimo
Josef Rodriguez
sje@telbonet.an

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #101) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 8:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What a disgraceful, corrupt, and doubtlessly nepotistic government that must be! What a shame! My thoughts go to Esperanza! Carl's idea of a leaky boat is starting to sound better by the minute! Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Silvia Taurer (BonaireTalker - Post #12) on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 8:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think it is an excellent idea, to put more media pressure onto it. But on the other side, I dont want to see Esperanza in any danger.
This is an outrage. Let's go and complain!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #150) on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 3:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

About the meeting monday-evening with disturbed Bonairians led by Michael Bijkerk.

Some 50 people were there, organisation was good, the translation was OK, but my main opinion is that we didn't get further very much.
There were no representatives of police, politicians or government, as far as I could see.
I think there will be a summary in one or some of our journals perhaps also in the Bonaire Reporter, so I will not try to make a summary.

Michael Bijkerk was proposing solutions for the long term, which probably could work, such as strict law enforcement on the possession of weapons, change the law to a "three strikes and you are out of the community forever", shelters for the homeless, more attention for the young children on the streets, free prescription of drugs a.s.o. He is also a big supporter of a "private investigation-bureau", which will possibly make cases against the police and government, if police or government didn't react good enough in the follow-up on crimes.

Generally speaking the people that were there, were not really looking for long-term-solutions, most of them wanted to find quick solutions, for a fast-growing problem. Also the remarks that Bonaire still is among the safest places on earth (which even can be true, btw.) weren't received enthusiastic.
Many of the people came with examples in which the police hadn’t acted good, or even hadn’t acted at all, also while there was apparently enough evidential force. Many remarks were made that the police and government were not reacting because of family-ties with possible suspects. Michael Bijkerk was quite cautious on this field. It is extremely difficult to prove that police fails to do their work properly. You would need several (10+) cases from different persons with at least two really harsh evidences, backed with careful collected paperwork, in which you can prove that police and/or government fails. Albert and Barbara (the victims of the brutal attack in Sabadeco) had collected some of these cases and also the case with Esperanza (Garden Café) could be usefull. A difficulty is how to arrange these kind of accusations, Michael suggested again the possibility of a private–investigation bureau.
At the moment of ending the session, just before most of the visitors wanted to go home quite disappointed, a kind of an agreement was made between Albert and Michael, that he is willing to help Albert to make a case to force police and government to do their work better.

My conclusion after two-and-a-half hours of talking and argumentation was that this is not the way to do it, but please, don’t ask me for alternatives, I also don’t know… If I knew, I would be probably in politics, and I am not.

Harrie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4307) on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 4:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you for your input and updates, Harrie. It sounds like a very frustrating evening and very frustrated residents, as well. I hope someone can come up with a "solution" to the issues at hand. Thank you again, Harrie...Ayo. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #218) on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 7:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It sure was a frustrating evening ... and honestly seen the past of Michael Bijkerk, I am not sure that it was the right person to invite to anwser questions. I have no idea who organized the evening and why MB was invited. His ideas always have been rather outside reality - about 15 years ago he was for weeks on a hunger strike, because police alledgely acted with to much brutality - I know nothing about that subject, I was too short on the island than, than he worked a short while as a lawer on Bonaire and than he went for quite a number of years to Holland. He is back on Bonaire for not that long a time.
One needs a down to earth laywer for practical solutions in short term and most of us certainly know their has to be something done for the long term , but I think one does not need a laywer for that. A meeting with concerned citizens, the churches etc could be rather productive .... but without a working police, a good juvenile judge who has a social worker as assistent , and a good DA, it will be rather difficult to implement some long term project.

 


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