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Local Items: Brutal Attack - Reward Poster
Bonaire Talk: Local Items: Archives: Archives 2001- 2004: Archives - 2004-07-01 to 2004-12-31: Brutal Attack - Reward Poster
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Burnham (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 12:46 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you all for your expressions of sympathy and concern for our friends.
This is the reward poster that we will plaster the island with today. It will also appear in the local press, possibly tomorrow:
Reward Poster
Several of you have asked about contributing to the reward fund. Here is the information:

  • Beneficiary Bank: Maduro & Curiel's Bank (Bonaire) N.V.,
  • Swift Code: MCBKANCUBON,
  • Account Number: 112.190.01
  • Account Beneficiary: Bonaire Reward Fund
  • Correspondent Bank for Euro:
    • Rabo Bank Nederland
    • P.O. Box 17100,3500HG Utrecht
    • The Netherlands
    • Swift Code: RABONL2U
  • Correspondent Bank for US$
    • The Bank of America
    • 100 Southeast 2nd Street
    • Miami, Florida 33131 - USA
    • ABA: 066007681
    • Swift Code: BOFAUS3M

We are pushing this as hard as we can in as many different forums as we can. The Island Council, the local prosecutor & press and the Dutch ministers responsible for Bonaire are fully aware of the details including the consequences for Bonaire if nothing is done.

Also, if you or anyone you know has cancelled a planned trip to Bonaire, put their Bonaire property on the market, or otherwise cancelled any planned or current investment in Bonaire because of the crime situation, please emial Marcia Leatham with the details. These stories will used to convince those in charge of the seriousness of the situation for all Bonaireans.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #120) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 4:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If that doesn't discourage a few thousand tourists I don't know what will.

Perhaps we can post an address for people to send checks? I know wire transfers from here cost me $25-$50 depending upon amount. I'd much rather see that money go towards the fellow who turns this scum in.

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #57) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 4:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Absolutely horrible. Words can never describe this the way a picture can. Hopefully in the quite near future I'm going to read on this board that the assailent of this heinous crime has been captured, arrested & permanently deported.
Yes an address for donations would be nice..Its easier to just send a check then the wire transfer.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Burnham (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 4:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,

I understand about the expense of wiring money.

We have to move fast though. If the bad guys are not turned in within a few weeks, then it will probably never happen.

Accordingly, this reward will only be offered for a short time.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 5:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

This is just horrific!! Poor, poor woman and her husband!! I am concerned, however, that if they catch these guys they won't be able to hold them because of the jail situation on Bonaire. Has that changed? When I was on Bonaire this summer, the big news was the arrest of several robbers, including a violent one, who had to be released from the jail because it was inadequate. Perhaps these are the same guys! If Dutch police are not quickly put on the scene on Bonaire and the jail is not reconstructed to hold prisoners, I fear this will escalate and I will have to sell my house on Bonaire, which I really don't want to do. So please those of you there, create a march, a protest, anything that would bring in real help not just more rhetoric.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #77) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 6:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Roger for posting this. A picture is truly worth many thousand words. I hope more people come to the realization that the problem has gone deeper than a few busted cars. My best wishes to the husband and wife for a prompt recovery. Coach Izzy

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The George D. Imposter (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:02 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

All of us living in Bonaire or planning on visiting Bonaire should take a good look at the victim and take appropriate security measures and contribute to the reward fund as ANY OF US COULD BE NEXT!!!!!!

On such a small Island it is unbelievable that no one can identify these thugs. Since the two armed robberies were against Americans it seems that the authorities do not take such activities as being serious!!!!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #227) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi George,

With all due respect I beg to differ. Understand that I loved my past two trips to Bonaire and thought I'd found a paradise.

Just two years later and it is suggested I and any future tourists should also pay for rewards to catch criminals or WE could be the next victims? I think not.

My sympathies go out to the good people who were attacked. I am nearly stunned that two days have gone by and the thugs are not in custody. Bonaire isn't that a big place! That the "police" force is not a criminal deterrent is a statement of the obvious.

I am of the opinion that I am not going to spend my HARD earned monies and donate to such an environment. If I want to get mugged, assaulted or robbed I don't have to spend thousands of dollars and 12 hours in airplanes to do it. I'll just walk around a Chicago ghetto at night with twenty dollar bills sticking out of my pocket.

The diving is non-existent but at least the police force will arrive quickly.

Maybe it's just my poetic license rearing its ugly head again, but I've spent substantial time and energy talking up and defending Bonaire at local dive shows and diving chat rooms in the past. It would seem that I've been on the wrong side of the argument and all the critics are being given ample evidence that their predictions of doom and gloom from years past were not far off the mark.

Could I take a vacation to Bonaire tomorrow and have a great time? Statistically yes, no question about it, the diving would be fantastic, the food wonderful and the people friendly. Would I then also be sleeping soundly each evening? Hell no. Would I wander alone all over as I've happily done before? Not a chance! Is THAT the kind of vacation I want to have? Sadly, VERY sadly, no it isn't.


 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1589) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Unforgivable.
Bloodwrath.
No mercy.

Just a few things that come to my mind reading these threads and seeing this picture.

Hunt down the perpetrators , bring them to justice , convict them , then club them silly.

disgusting , just disgusting.

jos

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #187) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:07 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

George, I am shocked !!! What are you trying to do, introducing racism on Bonaire ??? But one more time you showed you have only a vague idea what is going on on Bonaire !! If that attack would have been against a Bonairean, nothing would be on the BT and no reward would be offered. The police would not be there after one hour, they would not come at all !!

Perhaps you go back in time ... 4 years ago when we organized the signature collection against crime, you (and The Bonaire Reporter) were not only NOT helping as the Extra did, but you were even sabotaging us ... making comments like "don't wash dirty laundry in public" .... you did make a picture when we offered the 2500 signatures to Mr. Booi .. but your comment in The Bonaire Reporter was "only foreigners " ... not even knowing that a lot of these signatures had been collected in the churches and barios - the Bonaireans suffer as much from break ins and robberies as do the tourists and the police do even less for them ... You as a would-like-to be journalist could have tried to use whatever little influence your news paper had and you could have helped ... you choose not to do ...
Perhaps you should use your energy to find out why Mr. Daantje is still head of police and not yet replaced by the man from St.Maarten ....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lorraine Bayford (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #152) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 3:01 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brigitte, you answered a question I was wondering about. Is this just happening to foreigners or everyone? Obviously not! Don't get me wrong here but, Americans are not the most well liked people in the world right now. But also I was wondering if this is also because the Bonairians feel their island is being invaded by the Dutch and Americans! - and people who are well off and the locals are resentful. Maybe I'm a bit naive but the thought has crossed my mind. I am in no way making justifiction for this kind of action. The have not's always want what the have's have. I was horrified to see this poor woman's condition and to imagine the horror this couple endured is beyond words. I do wish her a speedy recovery. Unfortunatly you can't erase the mental trauma. An hour for the police to get there, GOOD GRIEF!!!! I could have driven around the island in an hour. I don't want to appear disrespectful so grant me a bit of humor. I could send my Royal Canadian Mounted Police friend to help - she ALWAYS gets her man!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The George D. Imposter (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 6:20 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

While my comments were meant to provoke comments on its contents I am not George DeSalvo. My apologies for misrepresenting my identity!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #513) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 6:23 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have been reading the other thread as well.
I thinks everything has been said that illustrates what I am thinking. Concerning that I cannot come up word words to describe my feelings.

For the victems: my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Stan

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #188) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 7:06 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

"George de Salvo", what is that for a kind of humor to represent yourself for somebody you are not ??? To provoke comments ??? Rather sick in my opinion!!!
Lorraine, the referendum beginning September showed that 85% of the Bonaireans want to leave the Netherlands Antilles .. it showed also that 59% want a direkt link to The Netherlands . And that would mean Dutch Police, Immigration, Education etc .... this sad case shows clearly why. The police on Bonaire, ruled by the Central Government speak Curacao, does not function at all and the Bonaireans are victims as much as are tourists .... and that is why there is protest for many years now against the police and their way of working.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5194) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:34 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The account of the person who has been impersonating George DeSalvo has been suspended. The person doing the posting was doing so from Aruba, incidentally.

I will go and attempt to change the name on the posts to avoid having the above posts be attributed to the real George.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #276) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:48 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Uh, moderators, is there no policy about someone misrepresenting himself/herself as somebody else
(and a well-known somebody else at that)? If not, there should be.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #277) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 10:08 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Jake.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian (bcj.) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 10:09 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Even if there were such a policy, it's up to the individual user to abide by it, or don't until they get discovered and their account eliminated.

Kind of like there are laws against theft and assault, but people still do it anyway. Just having the policy doesn't make it not happen.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #121) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:18 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

May I make a motion to remove the above picture and reward poster after, say two weeks or an agreed upon length of time? I don't think scaring off thousands of tourists is to anyone's advantage, people can read the threads and know what's happening here.

My two cents.

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #228) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:24 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Apologies to all for being duped and so quickly responding to the troll poster from Aruba.

It doesn't change my basic sentiments, but too often it's easy to go off the deep end when emotions are running high.

In retrospect this IS a "relatively" isolated incident in a community of 10,000. I think the reaction however is indicative of how attached even an infrequent visitor to Bonaire like myself can become, and the depth of sadness watching the place endure unhappy times.

I'm STILL kinda leaning towards that "lynching" idea of mine.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (BonaireTalker - Post #43) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:50 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have just heard from my friend Marina on the island that the three men have been caught and are the same who did earlier break-ins and were released. Has anyone else on Bonaire heard this? Have the perpetrators been caught? Will they be kept in jail permanently now? It is very odd that those who are arrested for crimes are then released because the jail is inadequate. If there is no adequate jail, what is the point of arresting them? And what needs to be done to ensure that those arrested stay arrested and are not allowed to walk out just to commit more vicious assaults like this one?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #866) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If there is no room for them in Bonaire there are plenty of jails in the US that we will make room for them in. Free plane tickets to go with that too.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1806) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:51 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have spent the last 20 plus years here and have seen an alarming change take place. I have always tried to "defend" the island and realized the different culture, etc. has led folks to be a bit hesitant about being the ones to turn in their neighbor, but as Brigitte said, it is not just the non locals that are suffering. The island is now trying to have an economic conference to encourage developement. They really have not prioritized the islands problems! Why would any business willingly relocate their emloyees to a place which has not taken the initiative to protect its citizens. I pay lots of taxes and employee 4 Antilleans and will continue to work to see that my adopted home is made safe for EVERYONE.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Margarita Murphy (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Or how about jailing them in the Netherlands. The Dutch justice system is more lenient than that of the US but definitely better than having these criminals run rampant on Bonaire.
Margarita

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pauline Kayes (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 1:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Michael, what is the state of the jail? Can you please update if there is even a place to hold these monsters once they are apprehended? And when are the Dutch police supposed to arrive to give the Bonaire police some backbone? pauline

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #867) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 1:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,
If the photo does scare off many tourists, maybe the government will begin to get the picture of what will happen to Bonaire if they don't take care of the problems that will eventually run all the tourists off. There are too many other dive destinations that do put forth much more effort to keep their islands safe.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #229) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 2:20 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Kay,

That was about as concise and accurate a sentence as I've read in a long time.

NOBODY expects a destination can be 100% guaranteed safe. We do have a right and are paying for the privilege of that destination to put for the effort to at least TRY.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Julia Graves (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #507) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 3:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have just e mailed my thoughts to Marcia Leatham. There is not a lot I can do for the people who have been injured other than pray for a speedy recovery but I feel that every little helps in the way of pressure on the authorities.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #58) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 4:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Very inconsistent situation on this island.. The Bonaireans are a leader in their goal of protecting the coral reefs & environment from damage. They are a showcase for the rest of the world with the marine park, system of buoys to protect the reefs etc etc. With respect to diving they realize that tourism is vital to their economy.

However the great disconnect here is it will all be in vain if tourists feel they are not safe. I'm absolutely puzzled by the government's lack of actions in the area of crime enforcement.

There are many islands I've been to that I refuse to revisit.. Frankly, I'd really like for Bonaire to not make that list. To those who govern...WAKE UP.. I've seen this scenario before on different islands & at different times & rest assured it's a slippery slope down. In the early stages there is a proliferation of "security bars" on private homes & businesses. This ultimately fails since it doesn't get at the "root cause". The incidents continue to escalate. A critical point is then reached where an incident achieves world wide notoriety. Then forget it, by then it's way too late. Every business owner/property owner then loses (big time).

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 4:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I ditto that, Vince. It's time for a change or the change will be as you said. That would truly be a shame. I am truly fearful that someone will have to die before anything is done and at this point am wondering even if that occurs, will anything change? Haven't seen it yet.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #868) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 4:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I would hope something changes for the sake of the local citizens. I really feel for them because in the long run it will have a devastating effect on them. As for us tourists, our world will keep on ticking.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #189) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 7:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Vince, of course the situation is inconsistant... the environment (marine park, national park etc) the island government is in charge. For police, customs, immigration it is the central government in Curacao and the island government has practically zero influence... that is what we are fighting for some years now, because it creates problems again and again ... and it is the reason (as said before) that 85% of the Bonaireans voted in the referendum to leave the Netherlands Antilles ... it will take time, as the Dutch minister for the Antilles just said a few days ago, he things it will take about 4 years ....
and in the mean we have to continue and complain again and again .... send e-mails to the people in power and to the Extra
Here the addresses one more time

Gedeputeerde van Tourism:
Burney Elhage
elhage@bonairelive.com
Bestuurskantoor
Plasa Wilhelmina
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-4020


Gezaghebber Herbert Domacasse:
gezag@bonairelive.com
Bestuurskantoor
Plasa Wilhelmina
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-5330 tst. 220

Ramonsito Booi ( Statenlid)
rtbooi@bonairelive.com
Ministerraad Bonaire
J.A. Abraham Blvd.
Kralendijk Bonaire
Phone +717-5330 tst 117/118

Extra Bonaire
E-mail Address(es):
extrabon@telbonet.an


 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Debbie Babcock (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Briqitte for posting the addresses again. I had no idea it will take about 4 years. How terrible for those who live on the island. I do own a home on Bonaire, but do not stay year round and this has really upset me.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #192) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The total change of the Kingdom Statut of the Netherlands Antilles could take up to 4 years (comment of the dutch minister) - the result of the work group was in short: Curacao and St.Maarten with status aparte (like Aruba now) and the 3 small islands Bonaire, Saba, St.Eustatius as Kingdom Islands with direct link to The Netherlands (which means defense, justice, educations, health taken care off by Holland directly).
What we could archive with protests in the near future?? I guess a departure of the uncapable head of police Mr. Daantje and some of these old majors and the Marechaussees coming from Holland and working with the police on Bonaire - if they like it or not.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1884) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

And most hopefully the authority to hire and administer your own effective police force.

It is most important for everyone here to hear and remember Brigitte's message: Bonaire has no way of making the Central government police stationed on the island (the only police authority on the island) do their job. And they don't do the job, as we all read. Curacao has far worse crime than Bonaire just because the Central government doesn't enforce the laws there. Sad but true.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Denton (BonaireTalker - Post #72) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 6:57 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

As bad as the incident was; we have far worse daily here in Gainesville, Fla. The point being each of us needs to be smart and watch out for our own personal security.
Bonaire is a great island; a super place to visit.
We looking forward to going as soon and as often as we are able.
There are no LALA Lands where everything is just right. Don't expect what does not exist anywhere.
p denton

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #230) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 9:37 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Phil,

Without overstating the obvious, of course here in Chicago we have a "few" incidents each weekend that make Bonaire's total annual events seem tame.

But even down there in Gainesville, what would the crime be like if your police dept SHUT DOWN for a few YEARS and let the criminals run wild? THAT is the point folks are making about Bonaire. Losing cheap flip-flops and sunglasses out of a rental truck is one thing, that couple DIDN'T just lose their t-shirts.

The next time, and yes there WILL be next times, we'll hear the same rhetoric, the same accusations and the same defenses. Judging by the comments being posted by the locals, I can't say that I'm filled with confidence there will be any significant changes anytime soon.

I guess about all tourists can do is stay the hell out of the remote rental houses and apartments and keep within the patrolled confines of major resorts, and watch where they go at night. Just like they do in parts of Mexico, and Jamaica and other vacation destinations where you HAVE to be careful. It's just depressing to see Bonaire turn into one of them.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5195) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 9:59 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,

The poster and this thread will not be removed as that would be a violation of the BT policies set up long ago to keep BT uncensored and a forum for open discussion (with exceptions being malicious anonymous posts, duplicate posts without responses, and commercial self-promotion).

And yes, Kay is right too. If we pull the ostrich-head-in-the-sand routine, as has been the case with the folks in charge of security and safety far too many times on Bonaire since I've lived on the island, then you're simply asking for the problems to return and get worse, as has been evidenced by the brutal attack earlier this week. To reverse the direction crime is taking you can't be in denial.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #634) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 12:23 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake,

as usual, right on the money

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Myers (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 8:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

While I realize Bonaire is not the USA, I present an idea that has worked here. The nut of the deal is that there is a funded reward waiting to help in solving the next crime. If there was a chance that the criminal could always be turned in for money, maybe, just maybe, it might be a deterrent. Here is a link to such a reward fund that started from a horrible crime in California. http://www.carolesundfoundation.com/
I have no idea how this could be administrated on Island, but if it could be done I would toss in the first $100 US. Any one else?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1809) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 8:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

As a business owner and a contibutor to the Bonaire Talk web site, I am fully in favor of the postings of this thread. It has been too many years of meetings, protests, fruitless discussions. If the police and government do not solve this quickly, then we all suffer, not just economically, but morally. As members of the community, we are obligated to help. Jake, I don't always agree with you, but bravo for your stance.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 9:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Is there any word on how the couple is?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5198) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 10:25 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just got back home to Bonaire tonight with the family. I've not heard anything tonight. Perhaps Roger or Marcia can give an update?

Separately, for those people who would like to donate to the reward fund but are concerned about the wire transfer fees (which can be substantial), Linda and I would be happy to accept PayPal donations (pay address: jake@richterscale.org) or checks sent to Linda's mom's house in New Hampshire (e-mail us for the address), and we would then deposit the donation locally as cash via an ATM withdrawal from our U.S. account.

Ron - your suggestion for a future rewards fund is pretty interesting too. Perhaps the fund organizers can address that idea?

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #122) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 9:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake et al,

I'd like to restate my position to be a bit more clear; we all know how serious the levels of crime have become, we know about this incident, and people in the future can read about this incident on this thread for years to come.

I fail to see how this poor woman's picture for the world to see will assist her, her family and friends, or anyone else. Someone a year from now may consider Bonaire as a destination for a vacation, long after perhaps the criminals have been caught, and choose to stay away.

Conceivably, thousands of people may do this. Frankly I don't care if the picture is up there, I can choose not to look at it, but have a heart when you consider this poor woman and her family in the future, her bludgeoned face doesn't have to be on a worldwide internet site indefinitely.

At the very least ask her and her family in a few weeks if they want it kept out there for the world to see.

Two more cents.

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J.J zambrano mazzei (BonaireTalker - Post #50) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:33 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

is incredible how bad some people can act,I´ve never have seen this kind of violence here in bonaire.in my opinion the reward could help to put this violent people in jail...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mary Wills (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #368) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 11:11 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,
Once folks stop posting on the link, it will be in the archives and not so 'visible'.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5200) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 12:18 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carl,

The woman in question explicitly authorized that her picture for use on the poster, and in the local newspapers (see the current Bonaire Reporter, for example). This was not an image used without her permission. It is my understanding that she was aware that the image would be used far and wide to raise awareness of this horrible crime, and perhaps motivate people to assist in resolving this crime, in a situation where otherwise mere words may have been ignored.

Should this crime be solved, that information too will undoubtedly be posted at the end of this thread, providing closure to this one incident, for all to read and see.

From a BT perspective, removing the poster shown in the first message of this thread at some point in the future would make the rest of this thread inconsistent, as the reference made in the above posts would have no base reference point for reader to refer to. That's a major reason that the BT policies require we do not remove posts from BT once replies/comments have been made to said posts.

That said, every 3-6 months the moderators go and archive old threads - they are still on-line, but no longer open for commentary, and not listed at the top of the list of threads in a topic, making them far less current (although still available to anyone perusing the archives or using the search function).

In closing on this particular digression, I will add that no one would recognize the victim from the photo in the poster compared to the way she looked prior to being beaten so badly, and we can only hope that time will heal her wounds and return her to the way we all have known her (at which point you again would not be able to recognize her from the above image). And that would certainly provide her with the anonymity you are implying removal of the picture would cause, but without removing the picture.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marabeth Owens (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #257) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 1:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake,

The funny thing is that I was thinking the EXACT same thing about recognition. It was stated either here or in the Reporter that she was virtually unrecognizable by friends.

I pray that she does heal well from her wounds both external and internal. The courage it took to have the poster done speaks volumes about this woman's character - and I applaud her.

Mara

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Burnham (BonaireTalker - Post #24) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 1:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for the paypal option Jake & Linda. Very appreciated.
The couple is doing as well as can be expected. They are home, healing physically and working on the psychological recovery.
The outpouring of support for them, in friendship and deed, from all Bonaire has been one very bright spot in all of this.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott and sharon barlass (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #272) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 2:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

To build on Roger's comment...the couple told us yesterday that they are amazed at how many Bonairians whom they do not know are stopping by to express their concern, bring them food, offer to clean their home, etc. There is more love on Bonaire than hate, and love will prevail!

Scott

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greta Badstebner (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #608) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 4:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Roger & Scott~ It is so nice to hear the positives coming out of all of this. I am very glad to hear about the support & compassion the locals are offering to this couple.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I understand and accept BT policies on free speech and also understand that is at least part of the reason this disturbing picture must remain. Without those same first amendment privileges I could not freely offer my opinion that broadcasting this poor woman's image around the world will not deter crime on Bonaire, it will only deter valuable tourism dollars from reaching Bonaire. Thank you.

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue (BonaireTalker - Post #77) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 8:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

When I lived on Bonaire many years ago, I ended renting a house that was not the best place but it is what I could afford at the time I worked there. Anyway near the house was a lamp post and when I would get home around 10 or so there were 2 guys always there, every night. So, I finally asked one of the locals that worked for me, what should I do because I was getting JUST a little uptight. He told me his Mom's house was 2-3 doors away and that was his cousins, etc. watching the house all night so no one would attempt anything. I guess what I am getting at - yes there are some on the island that are doing their best to push all the laws and the police force is lax but it is small and must take care of the whole island. But for the locals are the best and they know without visitors to the island, the island will die.
The island - for the next few years will be going through a lot of change. We who are visitors and that means people who have moved onto the island too, must help them whatever way we can.
I had a very good friend who taught 20 plus years on the island and at the same time I was teaching here in the states. On one visit to her school they showed me their supplies for the year, I had more in my closet at home then they did in that one closet. My help to the school was on my return to my school I showed pictures to my senior class and they asked what me what could do. The class started sending things down to the kids. I should also tell you the kids I was teaching were from towns that were pretty much not that much better off then the kids on Bonaire, but they wanted to help and they did!
So while reading this tread the last few days, I worry that in the minds of some the way to help Bonaire is to stay away and not visit the island. Granted NO ONE wants what has happen to another person, but staying away is not a solution. I am sure as a community we can help in our own way...there are are many ways to help.
Just my 2 cents.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Al Schroedel (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 9:24 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The extent of economic fall-out from this crime may well be determined by the length of time it takes to arrest and severely punish the guilty. Insufficient attention in the past to crimes against property may well have set the stage for a new era of crimes against people. Visitors may shrug off losing personal articles, tires, or broken windows. Suffering personal physical trauma or loss of life is decidely a much different matter. Substantial loss of tourist dollars may ultimately be the price required to bring about long overdue and much needed change.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #570) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:50 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Crit.....seems like you took me to task for calling the Police Majors lazy fat butts. You said they might read my post and get their feelings hurt.
Well, looks like they are still on the job....doing nothing....and people are getting really hurt.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #333) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 7:34 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry I hurt your feeling, but it's just that you have a tendency towards being one of the "ugly Americans".

Try looking at the number of tourists that come to Bonaire, dive, bike, swim, relax, rent vehicles, leave money, have a wonderful and don't end up fixated on a single issue.

Bonaire is a society, although somewhat closed, and as such it is subject to all the ills that befall our so-called civilization. If you want a paradise....keep looking. If you want a nice little island where the vast majority of the folks are warm, open and friendly, stay.

Try to avoid name calling (okay so maybe "ugly American" is name calling) and contribute to the solution, not the problem.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #204) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 7:51 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I agree with Sue above. Staying away is not a solution. I would submit that these losers beat this woman at least partially because it gave them a sense of power over someone who was helpless. If people stay away it will increase that sense of power because they will be telling themselves they have the power to alter our plans to visit the island. No way. I refuse to yield to thugs. 4 Days and a wakeup!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #231) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:36 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

The only thing that will happen if you stay away is that you will have voted with your wallet against the slow downward spiral that Bonaire is experiencing.

Of course most tourists will NOT experience an aggravated assault. Most don't even lose their flip-flops. I suspect that with sufficient "street smarts" tourists are relatively safe wherever they choose to spend their money.

I wish I had sufficient unspent income to make the choice of destination myself. But voting with your wallet DOES work. Obviously continuing to visit hasn't affected any change. Things have in fact deteriorated.

Great diving, great people, great food, quiet and SAFE environment are what MAKE Bonaire what it has come to mean to many visitors.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Edison (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I have to agree with Carl about the poster. While circulating within the Bonaire community is probably a useful thing, I think that displaying it to the outside world will frighten potential visitors.

Last year we were considering the Cayman Islands and Cozumel as well as Bonaire for our dive trip. The ratings in Rodale's Scuba Diver magazine and the recommendation of friends who had visited twice decided us for Bonaire. Had I seen this picture, we would have gone elsewhere.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By I. van den Berg (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 12:30 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

First of all hopi forsa for the two victims...

I understand where Ron here above is coming from. This brutal attack wasn´t on tourists but on residents of Bonaire. These two things seems to get mixed up.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #871) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 1:01 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

What would lead someone to believe that a tourist is exempt from this?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Taylor (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 4:03 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

My first trip to Bonaire was six years ago when I got my open water certification at Harbor Village. For the past six years I have returned and never really thought of diving anywhere else. We stayed at Harbor Village again but it seemed more a gated enclave separating us from the island. So for the past few years we have stayed at private homes along the ocean. Now what will we do? Probably return to Harbor Village if I can afford it.

One more thing – we come to Bonaire once a year for a couple of weeks and think we have some say in solving the problems of the island. These terrible crimes must be solved by the people of Bonaire. Yes divers can stay away but I believe that most of the residents of Bonaire could give a whit if the tourists stopped coming. In fact the island would probably be better off with less crime and more time to address the real economic problems of the island.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By I. van den Berg (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 6:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Kay, no one is exempt of being a victim of any kind of crime in any kind of place. What I try to say is that tourists are not in this case the target so I feel it is not for tourists to give a signal by a 'boycot' towards Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #872) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 6:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Both tourists and local citizens have been victims to crime on Bonaire. This is not about boycotting Bonaire. It saddens me that the local authorities have not stepped up to the plate and put forth effort to fight the crime issues. For an island of its size you would think the local authorities could get a handle on even the petty crimes that have been going on for quite some time. The petty crimes continue and have escalated. As tourists we can't solve the problems of the island. It's time for the government,local authorities or whomever has the power to step in and do what is necessary to fight the crime and protect the citizens of Bonaire as well as tourists that visit the island. I love Bonaire and can only hope that the changes that are made will be positive ones. I have met some of the most wonderful people there. Just my two cents...... :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #571) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 6:42 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Krit, actually I'm not an ugly America...I'm a handsome bald headed American you needs to lose 10.5 pounds with a slender butt and am well liked by most dogs. Of course also somewhat arrogant, insensitive to the achingly politically correct and tend to "git-R-done" while wincing at my kids proclamations which have a deja vu feel to them.

Everybody tourist and resident alike knows what needs to be done. It just seems to me if Bonaire could keep it's law enforcement money on island and empowered in an elected Sherrif/Gandarme and not recycled through another island which keeps a portion of the bucks and all the authority....it would work better locally.

Might pack the old spear gun for the next trip. Can't use it in the water but I wonder how much trouble you get into for nailing a perps foot to the ground?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #334) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 8:38 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Why is it I envision you with a Smokey da Bear Hat and a Sam Brown Belt and going up to the so called "perps" and giving the proper "You in a heapa trouble Boy" line ... and why is it I also envision the perps laughing their collection butts off ????

There is a solution, but you ain't got it. I suggest spending your time determining HOW Bonaire is to keep non-existent "law enforcement money" on island. Do I have a cure-all ?? Nope, but I am willing to work towards a solution, are you ?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #335) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 8:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

And.....

American's (non-resident) have no say so anyway. All we are really doing is flapping our gums and flailing our arms and legs. IF the Dutch bring pressure to bear then we might see some action.

If we want to improve the police force, increase their level of training and their salary. How do we pay for this increase you ask, increase the departure Tax to $35.00. What!?!?!? do I hear screaming ??? AND double the Marine Park Fees, (more screaming)and use this money to increase their training, salary and give the Bonairians a reason to stay on Bonaire.

Belize departure tax is that amount...and under British control. Why should Bonaire be any less?

If we want to help, then let us help the way America has always helped... Bring Mo' money.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Thuillier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #142) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 9:12 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Before visiting Bonaire for the first time last month I had read many of the old threads on the violence and petty crime that is happening on the island. I was a bit concerned, especially since we live in an area where our doors are never locked and my dive gear is usually spread around the yard for days without thought of theft. But then I watch the nightly news and hear of all the crap that's going on all around me every day and figure why should Bonaire be any different. Let's go and enjoy our vacation.
What will be, will be.

The above poster would have had no effect on my decision.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #336) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:17 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Amen...however I will no longer leave my gear draped all over the porch, the doors will be locked and the outside lights will remain on from dusk to dawn. Hmmm, just like I do here at home.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5203) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:21 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

C. Krit - the two fees you suggest would never go to the police (funding for which comes from Curacao anyhow). Airport fees theoretically go to pay off airport expansion debt, and Marine Park Fees (which I agree should be at least double what they are) go entirely to STINAPA, the private, non-governmental organization which manages the Bonaire Marine Park and Washington National Park, by law and mandate. Nice ideas, but misguided.

Wally's right in that in order to truly have control over crime on Bonaire, Bonaire's local government and senior officials need to manage, recruit, train, and fiscally control our own police force instead of having to cope with inadequacies in a police force controlled from a neighboring island which doesn't give a rats buttocks about how things are on Bonaire, because they are still a lot better than on Curacao (home turf). And right now, nothing you, I, or any other resident of Bonaire can do will make that happen. The only thing that seems to work is making a public stink which said island officials can use to help make a case to Holland that Bonaire needs more autonomy from Curacao, and more local control of the police (or police support from Holland).

That said, I would like to hear what sort of solution you're willing to work towards (although perhaps you can start a new thread on this, because it's off topic of the subject of this thread).

BTW, you have a good chance of meeting Wally in person on January 1st at our house - he's the grill meister at our annual potluck BBQ this year (as he has been for the last couple - Thanks Wally!). Put a beer in both your hands (Wally will have one anyhow, I suspect), a chair under both your butts (again, Wally will already have his) and I believe you might find you see more eye to eye than you're willing to consider at this time.

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greta Badstebner (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #609) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

"Rats buttocks?" I like that. LOL!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #337) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:30 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Jake,

If the poster that prefaces this thread does not make enough of a public "stink" then I am afraid to imagine what will.

There is much that can be done, without name calling, and many good ideas have been put forth in endless threads dealing with the topic "Crime on Bonaire".

This particular incident is a culmination of years of denying there is a problem with crime on Bonaire. I for one, have been quilty of denial, especially when somebody wails over losing money or a camera left in an unattended vehicle anywhere. However, the incidents have continue to increase in magnitude to where you are pleased to have bars on your windows (an old New Orleans tradition), and we examining plans for our future.

I digress, perhaps Wally and I do trod a similiar path, comparing issues at your New Year Eve bar-b-que sounds amusing. Perhaps I/we will do just that. Then again I may do what I did last year and go diving... (sorry for that Faux Pas).. you and Linda were the ultimate host and hostess, I tend to be somewhat self-centered when I have only one day left to dive.

My ramblings are at an end. Thanks, we will see you with the usual "stuff". Love and Respect. Ayo, Kelly

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Birk (BonaireTalker - Post #17) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 8:27 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

This whole subject makes me sick. Not enough to cancel our trip for Feb, however. We did switch our plans from a private villa to staying at Buddy hoping for a little more security. Looking through our local paper for the past few weeks, I see shootings, stabbings, home invasions and a lot of petty crimes, and we still go on about our lives but just take a few precautions. I hope for a fun and relaxing dive vacation without any incidents. While we are fun loving and pretty non-confrontational, the guys do have the ability to defend themselves quite vigorously and will not hesitate to do so (thanks to the US military). There are sheep, and there are wolves, but there are a lot of us that are neither. Oddly enough, some of the Caribbean islands we have visited have effective police, and the local perps have a healthy respect for them ( a lot of street justice goes on). They are islands, and everybody knows just about everyone, and if there are strangers about, someone knows. More cops, less lawyers. Just my opinion.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Geologydave (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #551) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 8:48 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Go Capt. Wally, go

Sorry to the board but Keely sent me a link, again.

So...confronting just the picture is now too uncomfortable. A new level of.... I'm going to act my age and say nothing further.

I will respond to the email link and outline our change of plans resulting in real estate not purchased and maybe a half dozen vacation trips not taken.


Please Boycott Bonaire. refer to previous rants for reasons.

Regards,
Capt.Dave

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #573) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 6:22 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Yo Dave....TS sent me another post on his dives in SE Asia. Now if I could figure out how to jump ship from Shanghai in November..ditch my host and zip south about 1000 miles.

Krit...see you after your dives on New Years Days..you still have to eat. I'll put on something good about an hour after sunset...be ready right after your night dive.

Probably nothing tourist can do too help the locals get control of their law enforcement authority. Everybody email Queen Beatrice :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sarah (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2009) on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 5:54 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

We wish the victims a speedy recovery - let's hope that justice will be served.

Sarah

 


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