By Roger Burnham (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 12:46 pm: |
Thank you all for your expressions of sympathy and concern for our friends.
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #120) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 4:41 pm: |
If that doesn't discourage a few thousand tourists I don't know what will.
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By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #57) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 4:50 pm: |
Absolutely horrible. Words can never describe this the way a picture can. Hopefully in the quite near future I'm going to read on this board that the assailent of this heinous crime has been captured, arrested & permanently deported.
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By Roger Burnham (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 4:55 pm: |
Carl,
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By Pauline Kayes (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 5:07 pm: |
This is just horrific!! Poor, poor woman and her husband!! I am concerned, however, that if they catch these guys they won't be able to hold them because of the jail situation on Bonaire. Has that changed? When I was on Bonaire this summer, the big news was the arrest of several robbers, including a violent one, who had to be released from the jail because it was inadequate. Perhaps these are the same guys! If Dutch police are not quickly put on the scene on Bonaire and the jail is not reconstructed to hold prisoners, I fear this will escalate and I will have to sell my house on Bonaire, which I really don't want to do. So please those of you there, create a march, a protest, anything that would bring in real help not just more rhetoric.
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By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #77) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 6:55 pm: |
Thanks Roger for posting this. A picture is truly worth many thousand words. I hope more people come to the realization that the problem has gone deeper than a few busted cars. My best wishes to the husband and wife for a prompt recovery. Coach Izzy
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By The George D. Imposter (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:02 pm: |
All of us living in Bonaire or planning on visiting Bonaire should take a good look at the victim and take appropriate security measures and contribute to the reward fund as ANY OF US COULD BE NEXT!!!!!!
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #227) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:33 pm: |
Hi George,
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By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1589) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:56 pm: |
Unforgivable.
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #187) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:07 pm: |
George, I am shocked !!! What are you trying to do, introducing racism on Bonaire ??? But one more time you showed you have only a vague idea what is going on on Bonaire !! If that attack would have been against a Bonairean, nothing would be on the BT and no reward would be offered. The police would not be there after one hour, they would not come at all !!
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By Lorraine Bayford (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #152) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 3:01 am: |
Brigitte, you answered a question I was wondering about. Is this just happening to foreigners or everyone? Obviously not! Don't get me wrong here but, Americans are not the most well liked people in the world right now. But also I was wondering if this is also because the Bonairians feel their island is being invaded by the Dutch and Americans! - and people who are well off and the locals are resentful. Maybe I'm a bit naive but the thought has crossed my mind. I am in no way making justifiction for this kind of action. The have not's always want what the have's have. I was horrified to see this poor woman's condition and to imagine the horror this couple endured is beyond words. I do wish her a speedy recovery. Unfortunatly you can't erase the mental trauma. An hour for the police to get there, GOOD GRIEF!!!! I could have driven around the island in an hour. I don't want to appear disrespectful so grant me a bit of humor. I could send my Royal Canadian Mounted Police friend to help - she ALWAYS gets her man!
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By The George D. Imposter (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 6:20 am: |
While my comments were meant to provoke comments on its contents I am not George DeSalvo. My apologies for misrepresenting my identity!!
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By Stan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #513) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 6:23 am: |
I have been reading the other thread as well.
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #188) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 7:06 am: |
"George de Salvo", what is that for a kind of humor to represent yourself for somebody you are not ??? To provoke comments ??? Rather sick in my opinion!!!
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5194) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:34 am: |
The account of the person who has been impersonating George DeSalvo has been suspended. The person doing the posting was doing so from Aruba, incidentally.
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By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #276) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:48 am: |
Uh, moderators, is there no policy about someone misrepresenting himself/herself as somebody else
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By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #277) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 10:08 am: |
Thanks, Jake.
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By Brian (bcj.) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #139) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 10:09 am: |
Even if there were such a policy, it's up to the individual user to abide by it, or don't until they get discovered and their account eliminated.
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #121) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:18 am: |
May I make a motion to remove the above picture and reward poster after, say two weeks or an agreed upon length of time? I don't think scaring off thousands of tourists is to anyone's advantage, people can read the threads and know what's happening here.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #228) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:24 am: |
Apologies to all for being duped and so quickly responding to the troll poster from Aruba.
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By Pauline Kayes (BonaireTalker - Post #43) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:50 am: |
I have just heard from my friend Marina on the island that the three men have been caught and are the same who did earlier break-ins and were released. Has anyone else on Bonaire heard this? Have the perpetrators been caught? Will they be kept in jail permanently now? It is very odd that those who are arrested for crimes are then released because the jail is inadequate. If there is no adequate jail, what is the point of arresting them? And what needs to be done to ensure that those arrested stay arrested and are not allowed to walk out just to commit more vicious assaults like this one?
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #866) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:15 pm: |
If there is no room for them in Bonaire there are plenty of jails in the US that we will make room for them in. Free plane tickets to go with that too.
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By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1806) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:51 pm: |
I have spent the last 20 plus years here and have seen an alarming change take place. I have always tried to "defend" the island and realized the different culture, etc. has led folks to be a bit hesitant about being the ones to turn in their neighbor, but as Brigitte said, it is not just the non locals that are suffering. The island is now trying to have an economic conference to encourage developement. They really have not prioritized the islands problems! Why would any business willingly relocate their emloyees to a place which has not taken the initiative to protect its citizens. I pay lots of taxes and employee 4 Antilleans and will continue to work to see that my adopted home is made safe for EVERYONE.
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By Margarita Murphy (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:52 pm: |
Or how about jailing them in the Netherlands. The Dutch justice system is more lenient than that of the US but definitely better than having these criminals run rampant on Bonaire.
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By Pauline Kayes (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 1:09 pm: |
Michael, what is the state of the jail? Can you please update if there is even a place to hold these monsters once they are apprehended? And when are the Dutch police supposed to arrive to give the Bonaire police some backbone? pauline
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #867) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 1:25 pm: |
Carl,
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #229) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 2:20 pm: |
Hi Kay,
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By Julia Graves (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #507) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 3:54 pm: |
I have just e mailed my thoughts to Marcia Leatham. There is not a lot I can do for the people who have been injured other than pray for a speedy recovery but I feel that every little helps in the way of pressure on the authorities.
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By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #58) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 4:08 pm: |
Very inconsistent situation on this island.. The Bonaireans are a leader in their goal of protecting the coral reefs & environment from damage. They are a showcase for the rest of the world with the marine park, system of buoys to protect the reefs etc etc. With respect to diving they realize that tourism is vital to their economy.
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By Debbie Babcock (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 4:27 pm: |
I ditto that, Vince. It's time for a change or the change will be as you said. That would truly be a shame. I am truly fearful that someone will have to die before anything is done and at this point am wondering even if that occurs, will anything change? Haven't seen it yet.
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #868) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 4:35 pm: |
I would hope something changes for the sake of the local citizens. I really feel for them because in the long run it will have a devastating effect on them. As for us tourists, our world will keep on ticking.
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #189) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 7:08 pm: |
Vince, of course the situation is inconsistant... the environment (marine park, national park etc) the island government is in charge. For police, customs, immigration it is the central government in Curacao and the island government has practically zero influence... that is what we are fighting for some years now, because it creates problems again and again ... and it is the reason (as said before) that 85% of the Bonaireans voted in the referendum to leave the Netherlands Antilles ... it will take time, as the Dutch minister for the Antilles just said a few days ago, he things it will take about 4 years ....
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By Debbie Babcock (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #109) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:03 pm: |
Thanks, Briqitte for posting the addresses again. I had no idea it will take about 4 years. How terrible for those who live on the island. I do own a home on Bonaire, but do not stay year round and this has really upset me.
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #192) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:19 pm: |
The total change of the Kingdom Statut of the Netherlands Antilles could take up to 4 years (comment of the dutch minister) - the result of the work group was in short: Curacao and St.Maarten with status aparte (like Aruba now) and the 3 small islands Bonaire, Saba, St.Eustatius as Kingdom Islands with direct link to The Netherlands (which means defense, justice, educations, health taken care off by Holland directly).
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1884) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:23 pm: |
And most hopefully the authority to hire and administer your own effective police force.
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By Phil Denton (BonaireTalker - Post #72) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 6:57 am: |
As bad as the incident was; we have far worse daily here in Gainesville, Fla. The point being each of us needs to be smart and watch out for our own personal security.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #230) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 9:37 am: |
Hi Phil,
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5195) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 9:59 am: |
Carl,
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #634) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 12:23 pm: |
Jake,
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By Ron Myers (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 8:10 pm: |
While I realize Bonaire is not the USA, I present an idea that has worked here. The nut of the deal is that there is a funded reward waiting to help in solving the next crime. If there was a chance that the criminal could always be turned in for money, maybe, just maybe, it might be a deterrent. Here is a link to such a reward fund that started from a horrible crime in California. http://www.carolesundfoundation.com/
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By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1809) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 8:42 am: |
As a business owner and a contibutor to the Bonaire Talk web site, I am fully in favor of the postings of this thread. It has been too many years of meetings, protests, fruitless discussions. If the police and government do not solve this quickly, then we all suffer, not just economically, but morally. As members of the community, we are obligated to help. Jake, I don't always agree with you, but bravo for your stance.
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By Sue (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 9:00 pm: |
Is there any word on how the couple is?
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5198) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 10:25 pm: |
I just got back home to Bonaire tonight with the family. I've not heard anything tonight. Perhaps Roger or Marcia can give an update?
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #122) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 9:54 am: |
Jake et al,
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By J.J zambrano mazzei (BonaireTalker - Post #50) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:33 am: |
is incredible how bad some people can act,I´ve never have seen this kind of violence here in bonaire.in my opinion the reward could help to put this violent people in jail...
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By Mary Wills (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #368) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 11:11 am: |
Carl,
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5200) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 12:18 pm: |
Carl,
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By Marabeth Owens (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #257) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 1:11 pm: |
Jake,
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By Roger Burnham (BonaireTalker - Post #24) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 1:36 pm: |
Thanks for the paypal option Jake & Linda. Very appreciated.
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By scott and sharon barlass (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #272) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 2:33 pm: |
To build on Roger's comment...the couple told us yesterday that they are amazed at how many Bonairians whom they do not know are stopping by to express their concern, bring them food, offer to clean their home, etc. There is more love on Bonaire than hate, and love will prevail!
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By Greta Badstebner (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #608) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 4:11 pm: |
Roger & Scott~ It is so nice to hear the positives coming out of all of this. I am very glad to hear about the support & compassion the locals are offering to this couple.
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:17 pm: |
I understand and accept BT policies on free speech and also understand that is at least part of the reason this disturbing picture must remain. Without those same first amendment privileges I could not freely offer my opinion that broadcasting this poor woman's image around the world will not deter crime on Bonaire, it will only deter valuable tourism dollars from reaching Bonaire. Thank you.
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By Sue (BonaireTalker - Post #77) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 8:22 pm: |
When I lived on Bonaire many years ago, I ended renting a house that was not the best place but it is what I could afford at the time I worked there. Anyway near the house was a lamp post and when I would get home around 10 or so there were 2 guys always there, every night. So, I finally asked one of the locals that worked for me, what should I do because I was getting JUST a little uptight. He told me his Mom's house was 2-3 doors away and that was his cousins, etc. watching the house all night so no one would attempt anything. I guess what I am getting at - yes there are some on the island that are doing their best to push all the laws and the police force is lax but it is small and must take care of the whole island. But for the locals are the best and they know without visitors to the island, the island will die.
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By Al Schroedel (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 9:24 pm: |
The extent of economic fall-out from this crime may well be determined by the length of time it takes to arrest and severely punish the guilty. Insufficient attention in the past to crimes against property may well have set the stage for a new era of crimes against people. Visitors may shrug off losing personal articles, tires, or broken windows. Suffering personal physical trauma or loss of life is decidely a much different matter. Substantial loss of tourist dollars may ultimately be the price required to bring about long overdue and much needed change.
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By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #570) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:50 pm: |
Hey Crit.....seems like you took me to task for calling the Police Majors lazy fat butts. You said they might read my post and get their feelings hurt.
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By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #333) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 7:34 am: |
Sorry I hurt your feeling, but it's just that you have a tendency towards being one of the "ugly Americans".
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #204) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 7:51 am: |
I agree with Sue above. Staying away is not a solution. I would submit that these losers beat this woman at least partially because it gave them a sense of power over someone who was helpless. If people stay away it will increase that sense of power because they will be telling themselves they have the power to alter our plans to visit the island. No way. I refuse to yield to thugs. 4 Days and a wakeup!!
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #231) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:36 am: |
The only thing that will happen if you stay away is that you will have voted with your wallet against the slow downward spiral that Bonaire is experiencing.
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By Ron Edison (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:54 am: |
I have to agree with Carl about the poster. While circulating within the Bonaire community is probably a useful thing, I think that displaying it to the outside world will frighten potential visitors.
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By I. van den Berg (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 12:30 pm: |
First of all hopi forsa for the two victims...
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #871) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 1:01 pm: |
What would lead someone to believe that a tourist is exempt from this?
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By Jim Taylor (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 4:03 pm: |
My first trip to Bonaire was six years ago when I got my open water certification at Harbor Village. For the past six years I have returned and never really thought of diving anywhere else. We stayed at Harbor Village again but it seemed more a gated enclave separating us from the island. So for the past few years we have stayed at private homes along the ocean. Now what will we do? Probably return to Harbor Village if I can afford it.
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By I. van den Berg (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 6:10 pm: |
Kay, no one is exempt of being a victim of any kind of crime in any kind of place. What I try to say is that tourists are not in this case the target so I feel it is not for tourists to give a signal by a 'boycot' towards Bonaire.
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #872) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 6:39 pm: |
Both tourists and local citizens have been victims to crime on Bonaire. This is not about boycotting Bonaire. It saddens me that the local authorities have not stepped up to the plate and put forth effort to fight the crime issues. For an island of its size you would think the local authorities could get a handle on even the petty crimes that have been going on for quite some time. The petty crimes continue and have escalated. As tourists we can't solve the problems of the island. It's time for the government,local authorities or whomever has the power to step in and do what is necessary to fight the crime and protect the citizens of Bonaire as well as tourists that visit the island. I love Bonaire and can only hope that the changes that are made will be positive ones. I have met some of the most wonderful people there. Just my two cents......
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By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #571) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 6:42 pm: |
Krit, actually I'm not an ugly America...I'm a handsome bald headed American you needs to lose 10.5 pounds with a slender butt and am well liked by most dogs. Of course also somewhat arrogant, insensitive to the achingly politically correct and tend to "git-R-done" while wincing at my kids proclamations which have a deja vu feel to them.
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By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #334) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 8:38 pm: |
Why is it I envision you with a Smokey da Bear Hat and a Sam Brown Belt and going up to the so called "perps" and giving the proper "You in a heapa trouble Boy" line ... and why is it I also envision the perps laughing their collection butts off ????
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By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #335) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 8:48 pm: |
And.....
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By Gary Thuillier (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #142) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 9:12 pm: |
Before visiting Bonaire for the first time last month I had read many of the old threads on the violence and petty crime that is happening on the island. I was a bit concerned, especially since we live in an area where our doors are never locked and my dive gear is usually spread around the yard for days without thought of theft. But then I watch the nightly news and hear of all the crap that's going on all around me every day and figure why should Bonaire be any different. Let's go and enjoy our vacation.
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By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #336) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:17 pm: |
Amen...however I will no longer leave my gear draped all over the porch, the doors will be locked and the outside lights will remain on from dusk to dawn. Hmmm, just like I do here at home.
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5203) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:21 pm: |
C. Krit - the two fees you suggest would never go to the police (funding for which comes from Curacao anyhow). Airport fees theoretically go to pay off airport expansion debt, and Marine Park Fees (which I agree should be at least double what they are) go entirely to STINAPA, the private, non-governmental organization which manages the Bonaire Marine Park and Washington National Park, by law and mandate. Nice ideas, but misguided.
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By Greta Badstebner (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #609) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:36 pm: |
"Rats buttocks?" I like that. LOL!
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By C. Kritagent (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #337) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:30 pm: |
Jake,
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By Bob Birk (BonaireTalker - Post #17) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 8:27 am: |
This whole subject makes me sick. Not enough to cancel our trip for Feb, however. We did switch our plans from a private villa to staying at Buddy hoping for a little more security. Looking through our local paper for the past few weeks, I see shootings, stabbings, home invasions and a lot of petty crimes, and we still go on about our lives but just take a few precautions. I hope for a fun and relaxing dive vacation without any incidents. While we are fun loving and pretty non-confrontational, the guys do have the ability to defend themselves quite vigorously and will not hesitate to do so (thanks to the US military). There are sheep, and there are wolves, but there are a lot of us that are neither. Oddly enough, some of the Caribbean islands we have visited have effective police, and the local perps have a healthy respect for them ( a lot of street justice goes on). They are islands, and everybody knows just about everyone, and if there are strangers about, someone knows. More cops, less lawyers. Just my opinion.
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By Geologydave (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #551) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 8:48 am: |
Go Capt. Wally, go
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By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #573) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 6:22 pm: |
Yo Dave....TS sent me another post on his dives in SE Asia. Now if I could figure out how to jump ship from Shanghai in November..ditch my host and zip south about 1000 miles.
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By Sarah (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2009) on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 5:54 pm: |
We wish the victims a speedy recovery - let's hope that justice will be served.
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