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Getting to Bonaire: JM Flights are grounded by FAA
Bonaire Talk: Getting to Bonaire: Archives: Archives 1999-2005: Archives - 2005-01-01 to 2005-05-01: JM Flights are grounded by FAA
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daren Daniels (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Air Jamaica grounds flights
FAA concerned about island's civil aviation oversight

Monday, February 07, 2005

Air Jamaica has grounded up to a dozen of its daily flights to North America, a move which well-placed sources say is related to America's concerns about aspects of Jamaica's civil aviation oversight procedures and maintenance management controls at the Government-owned carrier.

America's Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspected Jamaica in December and recently filed its report with the local authorities. Air Jamaica's top managers were unavailable for comment on the development yesterday, and a promised report on the cancellations by the company's public relations director, Sandrea Falconer, did not materialise.

Booking agents claimed that the cancellations were because of soft passenger demand at this time. According to Observer sources, at least seven flights to Florida cities Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Orlando were cancelled yesterday.

Flights to New York, Los Angeles and London were also cancelled yesterday and passengers who called the Air Jamaica reservation office were told that at least the Florida flights were showing up on the automated reservation system as being cancelled into today.

"It is the low season," said a sales representative in explaining why both of the two daily flights from Kingston to Miami, as well as one of the three to Fort Lauderdale, were cancelled.

Whatever the primary reason for the cancellations, Observer sources said it would have been exacerbated by a shortage of crew, with the recent decision by the owners to make redundant more than 100 flight attendants, which caused problems to schedules.

"These cancellations have nothing to do with the restructuring of Air Jamaica and the cutting of routes under the new management," said a key source yesterday. "These are not the routes that are supposed to be on the chopping block."

Air Jamaica's chief operating officer and route expert, John Lewis, as well as the chief pilot, Captain Lloyd Tai, were in Florida at the weekend attempting to find solutions to the issues and prevent any long-term harm to the airline.

On Saturday, Robert Pickersgill, the minister with responsibility for aviation, confirmed that the FAA had in December conducted an audit of Jamaica's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and related agencies, including Air Jamaica.

It was Jamaica's first substantial audit by the FAA in over six years.
While he did not explicitly say so, Pickersgill suggested that the FAA inspectors had not demanded anything substantial from either the CAA or Air Jamaica to be in compliance with International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) standards which Jamaica follows.

"There are things we need to do which we are in the process of doing," Pickersgill told the Observer.
He, however, declined to be specific on what the Americans asked Jamaica to do to receive their unqualified imprimatur, but said these would take time to complete. "We have been given 90 days," he added.

But Pickersgill stressed the safety of Air Jamaica was not at issue. "Let me give you an assurance that we will not do anything to minimise the safety of the equipment," he said.

In 1994 the FAA, as part of its then new procedures for grading the civil aviation procedures of countries whose airlines want to fly to the United States, assessed Jamaica and found that it did not meet US standards.

The island was placed in Category 2, which meant that while Air Jamaica could continue to fly to the United States, it had to keep to its existing fleet and could not open new routes. The restrictions were removed after more than two years, with the upgrading of the CAA and its oversight arrangements.

Since then, the Americans, in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, have become even more stringent in their regulatory requirements.

Pickersgill said on Saturday that there was "heightened surveillance (of Jamaica) because of the whole Air Jamaica situation" - an apparent reference to the Government retaking full ownership of the airline after the pull-out of Gordon "Butch" Stewart's Air Jamaica Acquisition Group.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #145) on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 8:08 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Wow - I wonder what this means to the future of flights to Bonaire through Jamaica... I always found the flights on time, the attendants courteous and the rides smooth. But the plane from MB to BON was never more than half full.

This last time I did see a huge swath of duct tape holding the turbine together, but heck, I figured they were just looking to save a little cash. :-)

This must mean big opportunities for AA if they continue to struggle financially.

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1981) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 12:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Interesting! Source of the quote???

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeffrey Rein (BonaireTalker - Post #12) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 10:02 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I was able to find these articles and sources:

Hoteliers seek meeting on grounded Air Jamaica flights

Observer Reporter
Wednesday, February 09, 2005




THE Jamaica Hotel and Tourist Association, concerned about developments at Air Jamaica and the likely impact on airlift into the island, has asked the airline for a meeting.

Godfrey Dyer, JHTA president, said yesterday he is awaiting a response from the airline's executive but understands that its executive chairman Dr Vincent Lawrence is currently overseas.

The government-owned airline said Monday it was carrying out major maintenance and quality assurance checks on a number of its aircraft, which resulted in 10 per cent of the flights being grounded.

"We are very concerned based on the report we have heard that a number of aircraft have been grounded," said Dyer. "We are currently in the middle of the winter tourist season and we want to find out what is happening and what the plans are to get out of this."


DYER... concerned about impact on winter tourist season
Air Jamaica did not say what prompted the move and was unable to say how long the maintenance programme would last.

However, it said that a schedule would be released giving those details.

Its release Monday said only that "there is a revised schedule for the time being with some daily flights being consolidated while others have been rescheduled".

Executive chairman Dr Vincent Lawrence was paraphrased in the same release stating that the "airline has taken the decision to allocate additional resources to maintenance and its quality assurance checks".

Lawrence added: "The national airline continues to guard very jealously its unblemished safety record and in this regard checks are very important. The government, as owners of the airline has committed funding to ensure the provision of these additional resources".

Dyer said he expects that there will be some negative repercussions.

"If so many aircraft are not flying that is likely to cause panic among the tour operators and it also could affect arrivals in Jamaica. These are the things we want to avoid, that is why we are requesting this early meeting," said the JHTA president.

Over the weekend, Air Jamaica begun grounding up to a dozen of its daily flights to North America, a move which well-placed sources say is related to America's concerns about aspects of Jamaica's civil aviation oversight procedures and maintenance management controls at the Government-owned carrier.

Air Jamaica would not elaborate on the US authorities concerns.

However, the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had inspected Jamaica in December and recently filed its report with the local authorities.

Booking agents claimed that the cancellations were because of soft passenger demand at this time. According to Observer sources, at least seven flights to Florida cities Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Orlando were cancelled Monday.

"Some passengers will experience delays the travel dates for others will be rescheduled and some will be accommodated on other flights during the period. The airline is taking advantage of this time when demand for travel is low to make the necessary maintenance and quality assurance checks," said the Air Jamaica statement.

Lawrence apologised "for the inconvenience to our valued passengers" and thanked them for their "patience, understanding and continued support as we undertake this important maintenance schedule".

He said the airline continues to strive to ensure reliability of service and better on time performance even as we seek to bring financial stability to the airline.

On December 23, 2004 after accumulated losses of over $600 million and mounting debts, the Government of Jamaica took back control of the national airline from the Gordon 'Butch' Stewart-led Air Jamaica Acquisition Group.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20050208T220000-0500_74785_OBS_HOTELIERS_SEEK_MEETING_ON_GROUNDED_AIR_JAMAICA_FLIGHTS.asp

Hardbeatnews, KINGSTON, Jamaica, Mon. Feb. 7, 2005: At least a dozen flights by Jamaica’s national airline to New York, Los Angeles, London Fort Lauderdale, Orlando and Miami were yesterday cancelled, possibly due to concerns by the Federal Aviation Administration.

The Jamaica Observer quoted sources as saying Air Jamaica grounded its daily flights to North America and the U.K. yesterday because of the FAA’s concerns over some portions of the carrier’s civil aviation oversight procedures and maintenance management controls.

The flight cancellations are expected to also affect some flights today.
But booking agents claimed the flights were canned because it’s a low season.

Sources also dispelled fears that the routes were part of those being slashed as part of government’s restructuring effort and instead also cited a shortage of staff as another possibility for the cancellations.
The airline offered no information on the cancellations on its website last night. – Hardbeatnews.com
http://www.hardbeatnews.com/details3147.htm






 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeffrey Rein (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 10:04 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm suppose to be leaving in 2 weeks on AJ from NY hope this is all straightened out. I am trying to track todays flight and it doesn't look like it is flying

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeffrey Rein (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 11:54 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Here is another story

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20050208/lead/lead1.html

Air J 'flightmare' - Aviation checks anger passengers
published: Tuesday | February 8, 2005




Dionne Rose, Staff Reporter

FRUSTRATED PASSENGERS who were scheduled to travel on Air Jamaica flights bound for Montego Bay and Kingston had to be calmed by airport police yesterday after becoming boisterous at the JFK Airport in New York.

The Gleaner was informed that the 100-plus passengers became furious because they were forced to wait indefinitely for their flights to leave that airport.

SCALED-DOWN OPERATIONS

The delay was caused from scaled-down operations being implemented on routes to the United States because of, the airline claims, major maintenance and quality assurance checks on a number of its aircraft.

Two flights were said to have been affected yesterday.

Stephanie Kellier, a passenger who was scheduled to leave JFK on the 8:00 a.m. flight yesterday, said that she was very frustrated after waiting more than nine hours for her flight to leave for Jamaica.

"I was supposed to leave on the 8:00 a.m. flight but they said it would leave at 10:00 a.m. Now, they are saying it would leave at 6:30 p.m. We are more than frustrated," she told The Gleaner via telephone from New York yesterday afternoon. "They didn't even call us to tell us about the changes," she complained.

THEY ARE NOT TALKING

Meanwhile, another passenger scheduled to leave on the 10:15 a.m. flight said he was furious about the delay because "they are not talking". He added that there was no one to explain the cause of the delay.

However, Kellier pointed out that she would be demanding back her money and changing her travel plans.

"They have caused us to waste a lot of time out here," she said.

In a release yesterday from Air Jamaica, which was taken over by the government last December, Dr. Vincent Lawrence, executive chairman, said, "(The) airline has taken the decision to allocate additional resources to maintenance and its quality assurance checks."

Dr. Lawrence said: "The national airline continues to guard very jealously, its unblemished safety record and in this regard these checks are very important."

Reports reaching The Gleaner are that the U.S.-based Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) in recent times has increased the frequency of its inspections of the national carrier. Officials at the local Civil Aviation Authority were not available for comment yesterday and Transport Minister Robert Pickersgill declined to comment.

"I will deal with that at an appropriate time. I will answer those questions, but not at this time," he said.

According to the statement from Air Jamaica, the routes affected by the scale-down were the Miami route, which is down from two flights per day to one; Fort Lauderdale, down from three flights per day to two; and New York, one or two flights per day.

Some passengers would expe-rience delays, the travel dates for others would be rescheduled while some would be accommodated on other flights during the period, the airline pointed out.

"The airline apologises for the inconvenience to our valued passengers and thanks them for their patience, understanding and continued support as we undertake this important maintenance schedule," said the Air Jamaica chairman. "The airline continues to ensure reliability of service and better on-time performance even as we seek to bring financial stability to the airline."

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue Goodman (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 1:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Yikes - I leave next Thursday from Newark!! I just shot an email off to Caradonna about the status. I love the connection & afternoon arrival & departure, but AJ really screwed us 2 years ago & they better not do it again.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrea & Dave Bartlett (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #124) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 1:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

AJ has also discontinued the Houston route which effects a lot of people from the southwest. AJ sure has a mess to clean up. They have made so many changes and people are finding other means to get where they are going that AJ will loose passengers for sure.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue Goodman (BonaireTalker - Post #76) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 3:39 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Donna-marie assures AJ is operating normally from NYC today. I think I will consider coming through Aruba or Curacao next year. I wonder if the Bonaire or N.A. government is keeping on top of this - tourism will suffer if AJ cuts service. I have no interest in the 7am American flights.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Long (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #114) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 3:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sue, on a 7 day trip you lose one day of diving if you used the no diving 24 hours before flying.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeffrey Rein (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 4:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Not sure where you got your info that all is normal today. I just got off the phone with Air Jamaica and they confirmed that the NY flight was cancelled on Monday and Tues but assured me everything will be normal when I fly in 2 weeks. You couldn't get through the 800 number, had to call their local NY number and be transferred and could barely hear them.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4666) on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 6:33 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi, Carl....you guys fly on Wednesday to Wednesday, right? Maybe that's why your MB to Bonaire flight is only half full. We leave on the Saturday a.m. flights out of Newark and they are cattle cars filled to the brim in each direction.

Have to keep an eye on this situation. Lots of us are AJ flyers and love their planes, staff and schedules. I hope they can work this out quickly. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nadine Rubin (BonaireTalker - Post #90) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:03 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

wow! Today I cancelled our Sat. trip due to bad feelings about the power problem...... will go in April hopefully everyone will have their act together by then!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #146) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:05 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Carole - No complaints about the plane being half full... :-) I believe I actually fell asleep on a flight once!

Carl

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue Goodman (BonaireTalker - Post #77) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:14 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Got an email from Donna-Marie at Caradonna that claimed she heard nothing about problems this weekend and that today's Newark & JFK flights to MoBay took off on time.

We scheduled the Thursday flight to save significant over $120/adult ticket over the Saturday Newark departure, which was nearly full when we were ticketing last April (it is President's weekend). At that time, that was the only flight that was supposedly nearly filled.

I like to track flights via the Flight Tracker on Cheap Ticket. I just looked up AJ #19, which is the MoBay to Newark flight. Surprisingly it is showing as operating from Philadelphia to Newark this evening - I wonder if they are doubling up flights.

I'm obsessive enough that I like to check flights the night before I leave to make sure the equipment is in. Two years ago I did this and saved most of my vacation by finding out the flight never left Jamaica. While it was no fun driving 2+ hours to Philly in the middle of the night, we made our connection to Bonaire instead of wasting a day in NJ & another in Jamaica and having to somehow connect thru Curacao.

Next year it's Continental thru Aruba...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mary pequinot (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #417) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 8:50 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

This is certainly unsettling news. We don't leave until May, but it still makes me nervous...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sonya S (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 8:59 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I was scheduled to leave Boston on March 9th with AJ, I just called them and they already had cancelled that flight. While I held, they were able to book me on an American flight thru San Juan, but said the return flight on AJ had not changed?! Not sure why that is!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mary pequinot (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #419) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:40 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

How much more inconvenient is the new flight, and how much more did it cost?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Taft (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #440) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 1:16 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I called Air Jamaica this morning to check my mid April flights from Boston to Bonaire and was told that all were still scheduled.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joanie (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 3:14 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Just checked the flight tracker, it looks like the mbj to bon flight today, was cancelled. Delta has the same information. Has anyone heard anything on this flight?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nadine Rubin (BonaireTalker - Post #92) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 4:40 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I just got off the phone with their local office in Maryland. I cancelled this Sat tkts and re-booked for mid April and our July trip. So far, they are still flying from Baltimore. I think they are cutting flights from airports that have multiple daily flights to Mobay. But the MoBay to Bonaire cancellation doesn't make sense...unless they combined it with the flight to Curacoa, then going on to Bonaire. Maybe we need to get hold of TCB and Bonhata and anyone else responsible for airlift into Bonaire and make them aware of this. Really complain. It seems to me it is their responsibility to fight for the flights. They keep track of the markets and how many people come from what areas.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue Goodman (BonaireTalker - Post #78) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 4:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

ugh - this is stressing me out. Looks like the early JFK & Newark flights operated on time today, but the Philly flight was 5 hours late. Also no flight to Bonaire.

Here's a new website that I found that seems to have fairly accurate arrival/departure info.

http://www.flytecomm.com/cgi-bin/trackflight

Sounds like it's a combo of lack of employees and properly documented equipment that can enter the US.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sonya S (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 5:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Mary
The new flight gets me into Bonaire at 8:36pm compared to 3:30 so that is a bummer. As far as the price goes, that is up in the air at the moment. After a long time on hold today with AJ and American Airlines, it looks like AJ will fed ex me the paper tickets and I am supposed to go to the ticket desk in Boston the morning of my flight and present those and it shouldn't cost me anything. At the moment according to AA I have not paid. As you can see I am not very confident in the whole process.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mary pequinot (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #423) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 7:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

It sounds very stressful. I hope it works out and, of course, you will have a WONDERFUL trip!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joanie (BonaireTalker - Post #16) on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 12:55 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Spoke to AJ last night, they told me their planes are flying close to normal with some delays. I asked about a flight we are taking from ewr on wed 2/16 they tell me it's fine. I did check the flight from Bon to mbj yesterday, and apparently they changed the flight number to the Cur flight number and it did fly. Hope this helps all flying AJ to Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4671) on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 1:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Joanie, I wonder if that means the MB to Bonaire flight will now stop in Curacao first? Hmmmmm.

Thanks, everyone, for the information and updates. We fly AJ in May/June and hope all will be well at that time. We truly love flying with them and we hope it all works out for the airline. We watched Air Aruba "die" a slow death years ago...they were the best/most reasonable fares to Aruba back then...hope AJ does not go the way of Air Aruba....Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joanie (BonaireTalker - Post #17) on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 1:57 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Carole, I don't think it's a normal flight pattern, but yesterday they did do that. #64 mbj, cur #65 cur,bon,mbj. On Wed #19 to ewr from mbj went thru philly then onto ewr. So it appears that day they doubled up on some flights. I hope as you do it goes back to the normal flight schedule. I really like flying on AJ. Got my fingers AND toes crossed.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue Goodman (BonaireTalker - Post #79) on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:15 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

One of my co-workers was vacationing in Jamaica last week & his return flight on Sunday went MBJ-EWR-Boston. He said the Boston people were really annoyed, as they had to de-plane & go through immigration (not customs though) in Newark in order to get back on the plane.

Were they holding the US-bound planes in MBJ to allow for the extra stop in Curacao?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4675) on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Joanie.

If I recall correctly, the first time Joe and I flew with AJ a few years back our plane stopped in Baltimore without prior/advance notice to the folks (us) boarding at the origin in Newark/EWR.

I guess the more things change, the more they remain the same.

I, too, have all ten and two eyes crossed in hopes AJ will survive and not make too many drastic changes. Carole

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian O'Donnell (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 9:36 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sue,
Sounds like we are on the same flight from Newark on the 17th. Which flight # brings that equipment into Newark?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue Goodman (BonaireTalker - Post #81) on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 11:42 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brian,

It's flight #19 from MoBay to Newark & #18 EWR-MoBay.

Looks likes all the morning AJ flights, except JFK & Houston, are operating on time this morning...

http://www.flytecomm.com/cgi-bin/trackflight
(enter MKJS as arrival city)

departure city flight# arrival time status
Los Angeles, CA AJ74 07:58 AM Landed
Newark, NJ AJ18 10:23 AM Landed
Chicago, IL AJ70 10:32 AM In Flight
Boston, MA AJ48 10:49 AM In Flight
Atlanta, GA AJ58 11:02 AM In Flight
Baltimore, MD AJ40 11:26 AM In Flight
Philadelphia, PA AJ44 11:30 AM In Flight
New York, NY AJ16 01:52 PM Scheduled
Houston, TX AJ54 05:37 PM Scheduled

(sorry this is messy, i tried to put spaces in, but it keeps suppressing them!)

I LOVE this website, although I don't think you can find flight info on flights that have nothing to do with the US (ie/ MoBay to Bonaire)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sue Goodman (BonaireTalker - Post #82) on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 11:44 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Brian - why are you flying from Newark if you live in Cold Spring? JFK would be alot closer.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian O'Donnell (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #10) on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 5:26 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Sue,

It may be as the crow flys, but not as the car drives.

My son loves the tracking web site!

 


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