BonaireTalk Discussion Group
Getting to Bonaire: BonairExel first ATR-42
Bonaire Talk: Getting to Bonaire: Archives: Archives 1999-2005: Archives - 2002-10-28 to 2003-04-30: BonairExel first ATR-42
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lisandro (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 11:51 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

BonairExel is taking shape, and this week they spotted the first ATR-42 in BonairExel colors at the Airport of Maastricht down here in Holland. If al goes like planned the first BonairExel plane will be landing at the Flamingo Int'l Airport at the end of April. Full operation of the airline likely to start in the month of May with a operation of three ATR-42 for the routes to Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten, and Caracas.

Just a link to the picture taken of the first BonairExel ATR-42 parked at the Maastricht Regional Airport in Holland waiting to cross the Atlantic to the serve the island of Bonaire:

http://www.justplanes.net/images/030415_BonExel_JSeverijnsZ.jpg

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #957) on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 2:45 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm assuming this is not a well-done Photoshop image, so in that case... YEEEHAH!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lisandro (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 3:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

This is the real thing Marc, let's all keep our fingers crossed, and hope the operation at the Flamingo Airport can start realy soon. I have another link with the ATR-42 of BonairExel, and in the back the Embrear-145 they had in plan to use for the US-Market. It looks like BonairExel will be using a bigger Aircraft on the route to Miami, when they start their International flights in the near future.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/336646/L/

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #226) on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 9:48 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The tail letters on the plane look interesting. Looks like PH-XLL. Two interesting tidbits: the H is oddly done, and the tail letters SHOULD start with PJ. The Netherlands Antilles callsign prefix is PJ. PH is Netherlands.

What I suspect is going on is the plane is painted with PJ-XLL, but an H has been overlaid over the J so that it reads PH-XLL until the plane is transported to Bonaire and approved by the civil aviation authority in the Netherlands Antilles.

Must be a fun ferry flight to get an ATR-42 from Maastricht from Bonaire... I suspect stops in Ireland, Iceland, Easternmost Canada, then down the US East coast before island hopping to Bonaire.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #969) on Tuesday, April 8, 2003 - 5:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Daniel, I think it might need a lot less stops than that: "Range with max fuel and reserves at max cruising speed 4480km (2420nm), or 5040km (2720nm) at economical cruising speed". Theoretically, if it flew economically and there was a landing strip precisely halfway, it could reach Bonaire with just one stop :-).

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #227) on Tuesday, April 8, 2003 - 7:59 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Cool. Didn't know the range was so long. I wonder if they add additional radio and navigation equipment to the plane for the trip.

Part of the reason I suggested the need for more stops was the issue of pilot hours. A 2000 mile leg would take over 6 hours in the air not counting routing for ATC, takeoff and landing. My guess is that'd be a REALLY long day, though if two flight crews were on board, the problem would be eliminated.

Would be interesting to learn how they do ferry the plane once they have completed the job.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #970) on Wednesday, April 9, 2003 - 11:21 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I'm sure if you ask that question on a forum of plane spotters, somebody will have the answer :-).

I'm particularly interested, not so much in how they get here, but where they're gonna go from here, how frequently, and how much it's gonna cost :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Edward Thielman (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 1:08 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

This plane will be in Bonaire the 21st of april 2003. The first flight will be hopefully the 5th of may 2003. When the fleet is complete like wanted the destinations will be Cur, Aua, Coro, Miami and depending on how it performs there might be flights to margarita and valencia(Ven). With this plane (PJ-)they'll begin to fly to Cur and Aruba.
Hey Jake make sure to be at the airport on the 21st of april.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ann Phelan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1071) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 7:43 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Eddie...is there a party on the 21st for the arrival?? I will be there for sure..
:-)

I think the Margarita link would be crucial and very positive to link two of the biggest windsurfing communities in the Caribbean together. Wow, I hope this happens. What airport is CORO? I am very excited about this!

Annie

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #4220) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 12:02 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Eddie,

I'll be in Orlando then. Sorry! Take pictures and post them here!

Jake

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #982) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 11:24 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Darn, and we will be in Curacao... Would have loved to be @ Donkey Beach to see it land...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Edward Thielman (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 12:29 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Ann, long time or to long time even. Ok the plane(s)-I think it's two even-will be landing around 12:30pm. Be there!! There will be a big party 4 sure. Waw that would be great about the connection Bon-Margarita. Coro is Venezuela, close to Aruba. Jake I will send You Pics if I take-Will be to busy hmm You know it!! Take care and by the way Happy Easter.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1645) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 1:36 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The airport is jammed as I write this. Looks like even more people then when KLM and the Eagle first landed....

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lisandro (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 3:27 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I was following the arrival of the ATR-42 of BonairExel via the internet(Voz di Bonaire, Radiostation)and yes indeed it seems like whole Bonaire was over there at the Airport waving with their Bonairean Flags welcoming the ATR-42. As things are planned the second ATR-42 and the Embrear 145 hopely will touchdown at the Flamingo International Airport the 02 of May

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By marianne & joost (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #482) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 3:44 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

W'll love this
1

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lisandro (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 10:35 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

And finally BonairExel arrived at his homebase the Flamingo International Airport. This is great news for the tourist industry on the island, and for all of us, cuz travelling will become much more easier with our own baby, BonairExel.

BonairExel ATR

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1007) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 8:26 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Love the (co-)pilot with the flags :-). Lisandro, will there be one Embrear or 2? I thought 2...

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lisandro (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 9:45 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Mark, it seems like BonairExel will start operation with only one Embrear 145 and two ATR-42. And yes I've got the real thing for you, just admire this lovely Embrear 145 leaving the paintshop in Eindhoven, Holland. As planned this plane will arrive the 02 of May in Bonaire.

Embrear 145 Bonexel

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Eberhard (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #23) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 4:09 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Does anyone know how to get in touch with BonairExcel for flight info, reservations, etc.?

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #229) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 11:52 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

So did anyone who was at the airport see if they've removed the temporary "H" on the tail lettering? Should be a "J" underneath. Just curious.

Great to see an airline based on Bonaire. With luck travel to Bonaire will be enhanced by this new service.

Dan

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1009) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 2:32 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Daniel, I drove by Flamingo this morning and as far as I've been able to see, the H is still there. We got back from Curacao this morning with Divi, but the ATR was parked all the way to the side near the oil tanks, so I couldn't read it then.

As far as flight info goes... BonairExel is still not out of the woods yet. One of the permits still hasn't come through and as far as I've been able to gather, BE can't fly to the other Antilles without it. The UPB has been raising hell about it with the Landsregering (Antillian government) and has implicitly threatened to withdraw its support to the government entirely.

Lisandro, there was an interview with the director of Flamingo in Amigo yesterday, and from his words I was able to gather that BE will fly to Curacao, Aruba, St.Maarten and Caracas. No word on Miami, which has led me to think that maybe (considering the current economic circumstances), BE has decided to put flights to Miami, and with it the second Embrear, on hold for now.

Great picture! I will be there to make pics of that one when it lands here :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lisandro (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 9:05 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Ok then Marc, I'll be waiting for that great shot of yours off the donkey's beach. As far as the titles the PH- titles still on the plane waiting to get all permits from the Aviation Dptm. in Curacao. It's seems like they are not so happy in Curacao to see an intruder in the ABC'S market. Ain't that a shame...!!!!

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #230) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 2:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I suspected that PH tail lettering would stay until the civil aviation authority for the Netherlands Antilles approved. Just another reason for Bonaire to seriously consider whether there's any upside to being under the Antillean government.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #231) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 2:56 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Oh, did anyone learn the flight path used for the ferrying flight? Still curious :-)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1015) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 4:11 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Daniel, you were right on the route; 5 stops, if I remember correctly. The plane went to Iceland then Canada and then made its way down... don't know any of the other stops though :-)

There is a picture of the plane at Flamingo on our (newly styled) website. Go to Photographs > The Week Gallery.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1400) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 6:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The Bonaire Reporter article mentioned Iceland and the Bahamas 'and others'.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pieter Laagbeemster (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 6:19 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

The aircraft flew the following route from Maastricht to Bonaire:

19-april
Maastricht (MST) -> Keflavik (KEF)
Keflavik (KEF) -> Goose Bay (YYR)
Goose Bay (YYR) -> Montreal (YMX)

20 april
Montreal (YMX) -> Freeport (FPO, Bahama's)

21 april
Freeport (FPO, Bahama's) -> Bonaire (BON)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1401) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 7:00 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

TKS, Pieter.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By flyguy (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 7:13 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

If you want to see the airplane fly again, have a look out on 30 april. The PH (XLL) registration will indeed stay on until the paperwork is finished. The other 2 aircraft will be the PH-XLM (ATR 42-320 same as the XLL) and the PH-RXB (embraer 145). The embraer looks even better than the atr in this colour-scheme.
The miami flight can't be done with the previously planned 2nd embraer 145 (range is too short). Rumours are other aircraft types are under consideration for this route.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Epley (BonaireTalker - Post #45) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 9:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

According to the flight planner on Landings.com, the great circle distance from Miami to Bonaire is 1224.9 statute miles, 1064.4 nautical miles, or 1971.2 kilometers. This does not take into account avoiding Cuban airspace if required. It would add <5% to the route.

The ERJ-145 is listed as having a range of 1,528 statute miles which would not leave enough safety margin to use this type on the MIA-BON route.

Interestingly, the ATR-42 is listed as having a range of 2,787 statute miles, far more than enough to fly the MIA-BON route. Unfortunately, at a listed cruise speed of 310 knots, the flight (1064.4 nautical miles) would take 3 hours 26 minutes to complete. That's a long time in a loud airplane.

I did not see any other regional jet types that had the necessary range to do this flight, so that means that BonExel might have to look at 737's, MD-80's or 320's if they want to provide jet service from MIA.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By flyguy (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 11:09 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Don't forget the fokker 70/100.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lisandro (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #8) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 5:58 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

I would go for the Boeing 737 NG, it's a comfortable plane with a lot of space, and most important it has more cargo possibilities then a Fokker 70/100. Most locals love to shop in the Miami Area so it would be a good choice, and BonairExel could carry all diving gears etc. of those who are coming to Bonaire for a vacation.

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C Poteet (BonaireTalker - Post #70) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 6:10 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Forgive my ignorance of the finer points of aviation, but this thread has me quite puzzled.

Per flyguy's post "The miami flight can't be done with the previously planned 2nd embraer 145 (range is too short). Rumours are other aircraft types are under consideration for this route."

To a novice, it sounds as if BonairExcel planned to use the Embraer 145 on the MIA-BON route then found out the distance was beyond safety limits.

Am I to understand that the "yard markers" were moved after BonairExcel made its plans? How is it possible they planned to use an aircraft that could not handle a known distance?

Regardless, I do wish them the best and do hope we can all have another option from the States to Snorkelers' Heaven.

Charles Poteet
Dallas




 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Epley (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:51 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

I think we are all assuming that the 145 was bought for the MIA-BON run. I haven't seen any evidence that it is, in fact, BE's plans. It's quite possible the 145's are for BON-St Maarten (sp?) or other "local" routes.

As far as the Fokker, the web site I visited listed the 100 has having only a 1,295 mile range which I find hard to believe. I know American flies these aircraft on many of its routes in North America and surely the range is more than that. That was why I didn't list them previously.

The site I visited is below:

"Aircraft Cheat Sheet"

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #236) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:04 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Airbus 319 would be a great plane for a Miami - Bonaire route. It's small enough and fuel efficient enough, and is a super plane. US Air flies one of these from Philadephia to Grand Cayman. Another good choice might be a Canadair CRJ 50 seat regional jet. That's one of the nicest, and quietest small jets I've been on.

Oh, and there's no real problem with Cuba. There are two air corridors over Cuba for international flights. I expect this causes some extra time to get into the proper area, but there appears no need to go completely around the island. Each time we've been to the Caymans, we've flown over Cuba.

As for noise... the American Eagle ATR72 at an hour and 45 minutes is already far too long a flight in that noisy an aircraft. The Dash-8's are a lot quieter, in my opinion.

Actually, the other thing the BE folks are likely considering is the ability to carry freight, if they can do so in the present security environment. Running freight directly from MIA to BON would seem to be a good market (would probably honk off the Curacao gov't even more, since presently packages are processed twice, once in CUR and once at BON, likely inflating handling costs paid by shippers).

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By flyguy (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 6:41 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Posted by C Poteet:
To a novice, it sounds as if BonairExcel planned to use the Embraer 145 on the MIA-BON route then found out the distance was beyond safety limits.

Am I to understand that the "yard markers" were moved after BonairExcel made its plans? How is it possible they planned to use an aircraft that could not handle a known distance?
---end qoute---


I'm not sure if the 145 was planned for the route I'm just going on some rumours.
I don't know the details but the 145 can fly the route. The problem is; with a strong head wind you would have to take on so much fuel you can not take on a full load of passengers and luggage (the extended range 145 could do it I think).
The route and aircraft type are pure speculation.
The fokker is a very comfortable aircraft and a lot of companies are selling them so it is cheap too, which can not be said for the crj, A319 or 373NG. (also very nice aircraft but expensive)

The dash8 is quieter than an 'old' atr, the new 42/72 series 500 are very quiet aircraft too (and a lot cheaper than a dash8) but still no option for such a long route (as you already said).

Good point on the cargo. Had not thought of that option yet. I do think they would need an extra permit for transport of cargo.

(Message edited by flyguy on April 30, 2003)

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C Poteet (BonaireTalker - Post #71) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:43 pm:     Edit PostPrint Post

Flyguy -

Thank you for the clarification; it gives me a lot more confidence in BonairExcel!:->

Their addition to the route inter-island options and between the States and Bonaire would be welcome.

Charles Poteet
Dallas

 

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Senie (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #239) on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 12:52 am:     Edit PostPrint Post

Even if BonairExel were only to provide RELIABLE inter-island service, that would be a big plus. AA flies a jet into CUR every day. We used to use that and then connect via ALM, but that always involved a degree of uncertainty.

What I'd like most about a BE link from MIA is real, direct competition for AA into Bonaire from the US. BE likely will be available to those with Northwest frequent flier miles, which would be a real plus.

 


Visit: The Bonaire WebCams - Current Bonaire images and weather!
The Bonaire Insider - the latest tourism news about Bonaire
The Bonaire Information Site, InfoBonaire
Search Bonaire - Search top Bonaire Web sites


Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration