HELLO TRAVELERS


BONAIRE IS HAVING A PROBLEM LATELY WITH PEOPLE BREAKING INTO CARS AND TRUCKS AT DIVE SITES THAT CARS CAN NOT BE SEEN FROM THE SHORE.
BIG PROBLEM AREAS ARE 1000 STEPS, KARPATA, AND ANDREA 2.
THIS WAS ONLY TOLD TO US AFTER OUR TRUCK GOT BROKEN INTO.
DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING IN YOUR VEHICLE AND LEAVE YOUR WINDOWS DOWN PART OF THE WAY AND YOUR DOOR UNLOCKED.
THEY WILL SMASH YOUR WINDOW WITH CORAL AND THEN LOOK FOR STUFF.
THE PEOPLE NEXT TO US HAD THERE WINDOWS SMASHED OUT AND THEY HAD NOTHING IN THE VEHICLE.

WE HAVE VISITED 3 TIMES IN 3 YEARS 1ST TIME WE HAD A PROBLEM

WE JUST WISH SOMEONE HAD SAID SOMETHING UP FRONT.

AL WE EVER HEARD WAS THERE WAS NO CRIME PROBLEMS ON BONAIRE.

THE POLICE AND EVERYONE WE TALKED TO AFTER WE GOT ROBBED ALL SEEMED TO KNOW ABOUT IT THEN?


ENJOY YOUR STAY JUST BE CAREFUL. THERE IS A CRIME PROBLEM ON THE ISLAND


WILL

Will,

there have been numerous warnings and testimonials on this site regarding leaving your doors unlocked, windows down and no valuables in the vehicle. Sorry to hear about your problem. I don't think the problem is restricted to those dive sites that cannot be seen from the ocean. There are several trails around Thousand Steps where thieves can travel and stay hidden in the brush...cars do get broken into at the southern sites when they are locked with windows rolled up

Will, had you accessed this board prior to your trip to Bonaire? Carole

Will,

Sorry to read of your problems. Bonaire is part of the real world and as such has real world problems.

I am surprised that the people you rented your vehicle from did not tell you to leave nothing of value in your rental and to leave the windows down. I get that friendly reminder every year.

I will be in Bonaire in a few months and will definitely do the same thing as everybody said on this board. Leave doors unlocked, windows down and no valuables in the vehicle. I'm wondering if I have to do the same thing everytime/everywhere I park my vehicle or just by the dive sites? Is it safe to park in the hotel parking lot and along the street? I also want to make a solar water and leave it in the back of the truck while I'm diving. Will the thief steal it? Do they also steal foods and drinks that leave in the car?

Bun Bun....(intriguing name by the way), the sights that seem to be most often hit are in areas where thieves (i'm thinking kids) can kind of fade in and out of the brush. I've left my car downtown with dive gear locked inside (during the day while eating or shopping) and have never had a problem. I would unload your car at night at your hotel and leave it unlocked, just in case. I doubt that you'd need to worry a great deal about ur solar shower (a two liter bottle full of tapwater left in the sun works great) or food and drink (though a cooler might be taken.....just might). I guess if you're looking for a couple of good rules to follow....don't leave anything in your car you don't want to loose (especially in areas lightly traveled), be aware that there is minor thievery, and don't let this worries ruin your vacation..

Welcome to the board

el cheeso

Hi Will,

Since you rented from us, I feel compelled to respond. Warning customers is a sensitive issue. On the one hand, it's not good advertising for the island (although we're not so naive to think that not talking about it will make it go away). On the other, we don't want to be suspected of trying to sow fear in order to sell our insurance. Heck, we've even been accused of doing the breakins ourselves for that reason.
The cars do have stickers on the dashboard saying not to leave any valuables in the car. Better yet is to leave nothing at all in the car, valuable or not. Even an empty bag might hold the promise of a wallet to a thief. And make sure it's obvious from the outside that there's nothing in the car; leave the dashboard locker open, for instance.

In Holland, I've had my complete camera set stolen once, plus a laptop, from a locked booth of the car in a closed parking garage with guards on duty; that has taught me never to assume my stuff is safe. It can happen anywhere, even on a close-to-Paradise island.

Marc
Manager, AB Carrental

Marc, your excuse is lame a best,bad advertising ?
All the car rental companies know this is a problem and relying on a sticker is even lamer.
I have never rented from you but anytime I have
rented it was explictly stressed to leave the windows down and leave no valuables in the car.
I believe the is a charge for broken windows not
covered by add-on insurance which is why you should warn people to follow the "island" rules.
This is not a new problem and certainly would
not impact your sales considering how many cars
and rental companies there are in Bonaire, and
you won`t have to come with lame excuses. Jeff

Well Jeff, I fail to see how a sticker that says "DON'T LEAVE ANY VALUABLES INSIDE YOUR CAR" in front of your nose every single second you use your car, could unclear... or lame. We don't put them there because we're sticker-happy.

If people ask us about theft, we answer truthfully, and most of the times people do ask us in relation to our additional insurance which covers theft damage. For the rest, it's just a matter of common sense.

I hope that anyone going to Bonaire is lucky enough to find this resource. It's unparalleled. There is no better travel guide to anywhere like Bonaire Talk. Saying that, I think if you really look into this board before you go, it is evident that the code for the thieves and the tourists is: Car windows down, unlocked car - means nothing's in there. If fact, so many people did this when we were there and there are so many replica's of the exact same car that we actually got into someone else's car by mistake. Stickers didn't really help us on this - because we weren't paying attention. So, Marc I think you should just tell your clients to read the sticker and follow the instructions - I think of it, actually, as a local custom in crime prevention. Similar to US Neighborhood Watch programs.
Michelle

Marc, does your additional insurance cover broken
windows?, if it does I will rent with A-B
the next time I visit Bonaire I promise.
No hard feelings about my post,as a consumer of
good faith when I rent I would expect the same
good faith from the renter, if I am a first timer to Bonaire and never read Bonarie talk how would I know to leave
the windows down in addition to NOT LEAVING
VALUABLES in the car???

Yes it does Jeff. It has a $0 deductible on theft damage (I hope this is allowed, Jake), but there is a "stupidity clause" : If the police report shows that there were valuables inside the car, the deductible goes back to its normal amount. We also took this measure to prevent possible insurance fraud. There's a difference between good faith and being naive ;-)

But believe me, I'd much rather solve the crime issue. Not only because it is costing us money too, but the aggrevation is huge for the client *and* for us.

Marc, thanks for the info I will use A-B in the
future. As for the crime issue,I doubt you or I could fix that,crime in the form of theft is as old as dirt
and can be attributed to many factors most of
which are socially economic and therefore should be discussed in a different forum. I only wrote
to respond to your answer you gave Will and I think we both made are points.

I for one have never had a problem using the island rule, but for some not locking windows and
doors is a hard habit to break. Jeff

Will and all. Attached here is an extract from our 2003 letter to officials on Bonaire. Please note the part about the stolen battery. As suggested by the car rental companies, we leave nothing in the vehicle , leave them unlocked normally with windows down. But that leaves easy access to the engine release and hence our experience. Ah (heavy sigh) ...

**********************************************

1. The most significant and important issue we want to highlight is the one of crime. We come from a big city and are not strangers to the fact that some among us are less than honourable. Bonaire is certainly not exempt from a certain amount of criminal behaviour. Clear warnings have been made for years to be vigilant around dive sites. It is unfortunate but a reality. We did have an incident at a dive site where the culprits operated from a small water craft using mask, fins and snorkel to swim in over the divers and stealing what they could find.

But this year, we were quite surprised at what appears to be an escalation in the level of crime and theft. Our group was affected multiple times during our two week stay. After dining at Pirates Den on Thursday, March 20th we returned to our vehicles, parked in the lot to the south of Harborside Mall, to find the battery had been removed (stolen) from one truck. Fortunately, we had the second truck and were able to borrow a tow rope which meant we were able to bring the disabled truck back to the Caribbean Court. Had we left it there, we suspect we would have found nothing there in the morning or at least a shell of a vehicle with the major parts removed. While waiting for our friends to return with the tow rope, we were able to flag down two police officers and a report was filed. This incident cost us Naf 116 to replace this battery (which we removed from the truck every night afterwards to avoid a repeat occurrence).

That same night, one member of our party was awoken by a prowler attempting to access a second floor sliding door. This individual, a retired police officer, was astute enough to get up to investigate waking another housemate. He believed this attention was enough to scare the three prospective intruders away, only to find in the morning there had been a number of thefts from other units in the complex, including removal and significant damage of a truck (not ours). In the morning, another hour or more was consumed discussing this matter with the complex management and filing yet another police report. Beyond the intrusion and loss of personal effects of more importance to us is the infringement on our privacy and peace of mind. We travel to places like Bonaire to get away from our stressful lives. We do not travel to be subject to stressful situations such as theft. We all commented that we were very uneasy going to bed at night living with the knowledge that there is clearly a problem with night prowlers. A regular topic of conversation in the following days was that of not returning to Bonaire in future years.

While the police did attend to these incidences, we are only minimally confident anything is being or will be done to address the problem. We were hearing excuses about being short staffed on the police department. If Bonaire is serious about making improvements, there is a way. It is a small island with a relatively small population. The individual who witnessed the attempted break-ins was able to give very detailed descriptions of the perpetrators to the police. In fact, he subsequently saw two of the three hanging around Julio’s on Kaya Grande. You have what is becoming a serious problem and we believe you have the means and backing of the business community to take solid steps toward improving the situation should that be your desire. We certainly hope that the feedback you are receiving from us and others will be taken to heart and acted upon. It is not acceptable to ignore the problem and hope that it will go away or be overlooked by your residents and guests. The future of your country depends on it. We would like to be able to consider Bonaire in our future travel plans but we will be closely watching for improvements to be made.

Cindylou,

Please also see my comment under 'Thieves at 1000 Steps'. These multiple threads are fun.

Bon in the end is no different than any of the other islands.. All on a seeming slow decline in socio/economic conditions that breeds discontent, and hence crime. 100 or more years ago as the West colonized, and in some cases plundered the islands for all sorts of reasons to do with trade, they set in motion a series of reactions that today, has some islands on a continued struggle with independence ( Haiti ) and others still under the West's control for better or worse. The end result is a glaring disparity between the "haves" (Tourists, govts ) and the "have nots" ( the average working resident of the islands )

Has anyone thought of or used a portable motion sensor alarm? Been thinking of trying it myself.

Well, *that* would certainly keep the donkeys away...

Whoa, Nelly!, Jeff, I'm shocked and dismayed. "If the police report shows that there were valuables inside the car, the deductible goes back to its normal amount." BOGUS! If there was a break-in and a theft of something from a vehicle, then something worth stealing would virtually always HAVE to have been inside the vehicle. Your alleged "stupidity clause" thus purports to deprive any renter of the VERY benefit (the $0 deductible on "theft damage") that you try to sell as a benefit. If what you're saying is that the zero deductible only applies if the thief breaks into an empty car, well, DUH, "what's the point of breaking in" says any thief who is not simply smokin' crack (which is, fortunately, NOT among the prevalent problems in Bonaire.)

What you are obviously REALLY saying is that if anyone EVER dares to claim that any personal property, whatsoever, came up missing, you hold the renter RESPONSIBLE for a significant chunk, or perhaps all, of the repair cost (as I recall the deductible portion is fairly high). I would give you more credit for having a less unfair insurance contract if it simply excluded all liability for personal property.

Don't take it personally. I presume that you did not write the insurance policy and that another company altogether dictates its terms.

I've rented from AB before and my only frustration was the tenacity with which the agents attempted to INSIST on selling the insurance, even to the point of trying to charge me MORE because I would NOT accept the insurance. In my case I know (as it is within my professional expertise to make such determinations) that my credit card provider gives superior coverage for a foreign car rental as long as I charge the rental through my card, affirmatively REFUSE any other insurance offered by the rental agency, and don't rent a pickup truck (it's only the last of the 3 that I don't quite understand).

It is depressing that the petty vehicle theft issue has never been taken seriously. I can recall only one arrest ever being reported, and that may have been someone caught breaking into houses - I don't recall for sure.

Bonaire has police; SURELY over the years they could have spent a little time attending to an issue that could, if left to continued neglect, become a permanent detriment to the island's otherwise good reputation. A few well-conceived "sting" operations now and then would SERIOUSLY deter even the most bold pilferers.

I've always practiced active discouragement by leaving cars open and unenticing. So I'm able to say I've never let myself become a target.

If the rental agencies were serious about having people not leave valuables in their cars, perhaps they would have removed the door locks.

I hope that one day Bonaire will move from "coping" with this endemic problem to solving it.

Rant over.

The thievery is not only aimed at tourists. I can name a number of crimes directed at life-long residents. Victimization of the local folks - car and home theft and vandalism - is common and locals don't get any action from the police either (even when there is a trail of oil leading directly from the site of the theft to the home of the thief).

Actually, I've been given to understand that Bonaire does not have police, the police are controlled from Curacao, and are not responsive to local interests.

After reading this thread, and posting once - I have a question. Why is there not a citizen policing practice in place? I know that there are some business organizations on Bonaire. Kiwanas (sp?) or something??? I'm in Rotary in the states and this topic seems to need local business leader attention. Shouldn't this be an issue for the island if the police really don't follow "oil trailing to the thief's locale"?

Jake, surely is plugged into this part of the island economics, societal problems etc. I have a hard time believing that "no one" that lives on Bonaire is working to combat this - or am I missing something? ...

?Maybe people are simply too interested in the Marine life and incredible diversity that exists underwater to worry too much about this? ;-)
Michelle

Leif, 2 reasons.
1) Stupidity, really. Leaving a camera on the back seat out in the open, is advertising to have your window smashed no matter where you go in the world. That can not be considered taking responsible care of the vehicle.
2) Fraud. If there is no penalty for this case, what's to stop someone from smashing the window, going to the police saying "Yes, my camera was stolen, plus my wallet, plus my 21" flatscreen TV" and going to his travel insurance to claim money?

The $0 does apply to stolen spares, cut fuel hoses, and smashed windows where nothing valuable was stolen (which does happen too, unfotunately.

Marc:
1. Your attitude is unreasonably narrowminded. If a diver sincerely concerned with the risk of housekeeping staff rumaging his room puts his watch and wallet in the glovebox of his rental car and closes up the windows, your attitude presumes that he MUST be inviting a thief, even though he took reasonable measures to secure his valuables. Indeed, in most civilized nations there is NO fault laid on a person who has indeed locked his vehicle. I frequently leave purchased items on the seat of my car in public parking lots - but I would never DREAM of leaving windows open, even with the car empty, since in the U.S. an open window INVITES crimes of opportunity. The REAL reason that Bonaire has "different rules" is that there is no effective enforcement and thus virtually no risk of punishment, so divers have to actually reverse their NORMAL behavior, since the de facto "rules" favor the criminals.

2. As to fraud, you are again way off base. First, you are presuming people are guilty rather than innocent until shown otherwise. Second, any reputable, legitimate insurance company will have adjuster/investigators who can deny claims where fraud is suspected or confirmed. Third, who in the world would be toting anything a silly as a large TV in their dive truck? Fourth, it would be simple to simply specify a coverage limit on personal property. Very, very, very few people will engage in a risky fraud for just a few hundred bucks. Fifth, people who can AFFORD to be diving in Bonaire are among the LEAST likely to ever even dream of such things.

Finally, there are far too many simple ways to deter the other crimes. Put serial number engraving on spares or use reasonable padlocks on them, and spend $15/car for braided stainless steel sleeves to protect fuel lines, just off the top of my head.

I like MM's idea. The top ten hotels and some of the bigger dive shops should all easily be able to kick in a few guilder each to hire a private patrol.

Well, nothing gets this board going like this issue! My 2 cents: Marc, our first of 8 trips we were explicitly warned by the rental company about this problem. Our last 5 or 6 trips we have rented from AB and no mention made. The warning to leave nothing in the car, leave windows down, etc was appreciated and we have NEVER had a problem or felt unsafe on Bonaire. Warning stickers are everywhere. Have you been in the US lately? My outboard engine has a warning sticker telling me not to swim near the propellor when the engine is running. The window screens in my house have warning stickers telling me not to rely on them to keep children from falling out. We see them a thousand times a day, and other than the passing thought "@!#$*& lawyers" pay no mind. Your business will not suffer if your customers feel you are providing them information that will save them the hassle and cost of replacing valuables or paying for vehicle damage.

Regards,

David

Leif, do you have any notion of the cost of a new tire or window on Bonaire? These rules don't just spring up whole, they evolve as responses to experiences. A new spare with a wheel is about $300 US. I've tried to get an old locked tire off of a minivan, and it's not a fun thing, especially in a swimsuit, and I had a tatmi mat to lie on, thank my wife!
Bonaire is a different place, with different rules, different police, and different people. That's what travel does, exposes you to different ways of doing things. It is unreasonably narrowminded to expect everywhere else to be just like home. If it were, why go away? You might hate the accommodations that the rental companies have made, but that's the deal, take it or leave it.
And, whereas it's no skin off your teeth if your car has a broken window and is out of service for a while, Marc would see that differently. I guess it would be OK with you to have no vehicle while your busted window vehicle was in the shop? You wouldn't expect a refund, would you?

Seb: Marc runs a business, and thus ought to be expected to maintain an appropriate reserve to cover business risks and payment intervals, just like every other business on the planet.

If a car comes in with a broken window, the company can have it repaired and then make his claim; no unreasonable down-time to the car, and if it takes some paperwork and a little time to recover funds, well, that is just the nature of business. It's a global economy. Acting insular and xenophobic is pretty backward - Marc's explanation sounded like he's either afraid or lazy. How does he know that he'll get stiffed by a credit-card insurance carrier if he refuses to even try?

If a car comes in with a wheel stolen, then somewhere on the island somebody has it. If they were engraved they would be easy to spot and recover. If the renter is expected to be liable if he leaves something of value in the car, shouldn't this apply equally to the company for leaving something of value that goes with the car unmarked, untraceable and thus more attractive to theives?

Finally, a NEW wheel, tire and tube is most likely quite a bit more expensive than a USED wheel, which is what is on the car when it gets boosted. Don't tell me there is no source of used wheels on the island. I'll bet a fair percentage of the used wheels for sale in Bonaire were once on rental cars. Thus, see the preceding paragraph.

I don't expect anywhere else to be "just like home". But in a place where my lodging host, air supplier, sail renter, grocer and the staff at every restaurant I visit is relaxed, reasonably trusting, and treats me like a friend and valued customer rather than an unwanted burden, I find it detracting that there is such a hassle with car rental.

Seb: Marc runs a business, and thus ought to be expected to maintain an appropriate reserve to cover business risks and payment intervals, just like every other business on the planet.

Which he does by having insurance and offering it to his customers. And by being the first ( to my knowledge) to offer extra insurance to cover the annoyances that can occur, scratches, broken windows, etc.

If a car comes in with a broken window, the company can have it repaired and then make his claim; no unreasonable down-time to the car, and if it takes some paperwork and a little time to recover funds, well, that is just the nature of business.

Wow. Really? You mean things happen at warp speed instead of island time? And Bonaire businesses keep vast part reserves to service the rental industry? How do you define unreasonable downtime? Maybe he does not have a huge profit margin to sustain your expectations of the proper way to run his enterprise.
Are you billing the time you're writing about this to someone?

It's a global economy. Acting insular and xenophobic is pretty backward - Marc's explanation sounded like he's either afraid or lazy. How does he know that he'll get stiffed by a credit-card insurance carrier if he refuses to even try?

If you are fighting the good fight against xenophobia and backwardness, you might start at home. The essence of Democracy and free markets is supposedly choice,you don't like the way Marc runs his business,vote with your wallet.

If a car comes in with a wheel stolen, then somewhere on the island somebody has it. If they were engraved they would be easy to spot and recover. If the renter is expected to be liable if he leaves something of value in the car, shouldn't this apply equally to the company for leaving something of value that goes with the car unmarked, untraceable and thus more attractive to theives?

No. The rules are explained, play by them or move on.

Finally, a NEW wheel, tire and tube is most likely quite a bit more expensive than a USED wheel, which is what is on the car when it gets boosted. Don't tell me there is no source of used wheels on the island. I'll bet a fair percentage of the used wheels for sale in Bonaire were once on rental cars. Thus, see the preceding paragraph.

Ever had a friend price a used wheel and tire for you, or priced one yourself? I have. Ever heard of import duties? Do you know you pay them on the shipping as well as the item? Did you know imported items are worth what the customs guy says they are worth, your paperwork notwithstanding?

I don't expect anywhere else to be "just like home". But in a place where my lodging host, air supplier, sail renter, grocer and the staff at every restaurant I visit is relaxed, reasonably trusting, and treats me like a friend and valued customer rather than an unwanted burden, I find it detracting that there is such a hassle with car rental.

OMG, you mean there's ONE THING that's not great on Bonaire? Quick, send in the US Marines! Or, don't rent a car.



(Message edited by seb on March 16, 2004)

Thanks Seb, you've saved me 15 minutes of my unvaluable time.

David, I can understand that, but really... If a window gets smashed because there was a camera on the seat, then WE are at fault because we didn't warn that might happen? Come on...
Like I said, if the customer asks, we tell. If it comes up in conversation, we tell. If we don't tell, it's not because we're keeping it a secret. Because yes, we DO loose a car for a couple of days when it happens, which means we can't rent it.

I'll go back to being lazy now.

Marc,

I don't think you're "at fault" if that happens. When there is a known, fairly frequent problem such as the break-ins at 1000 steps and some other sites I think you DO have an ethical though not necessarily a legal obligation to inform your customers directly, especially when the problem is so easily avoided. Not doing so is sort of like not telling people to watch out for the fire coral on moorings etc.unless they ask, because you don't want to lose customers who are afraid of getting stung.

'nuff said.

David

Almost enough said. I should say we are repeat and satisfied AB customers, find the staff to be pleasant and helpful, and the trucks to be reliable and in good repair. We have already reserved through Bel-mar for December. I certainly don't intend the above post as anything but a reasoned discussion of this issue.

HELLO MARC AND OTHER SURFERS

I REREAD MY MESSAGE TODAY. IT SEEMS YOU KEEP SAYING "LEFT A CAMERA ON THE SEAT" I NEVER SAID THAT NOR DOES MY NOTE SAY THAT. WE DID WHAT WE DO WHEN WE BRING OUR CAMERA WITH US WHEREVER WE TRAVEL (WHICH IS A LOT). WE HAD OUR CAMERAS BETWEEN THE SEATS UNDER A TOWEL. MY SON HAD HIS GAME BOY UNDER THE SEAT IN THE BACK. ANYTHING ELSE WAS IN THE GLOVE BOX. AS I SAID THE VEHICLE NEXT TO US WAS NOT EVEN LOCKED BUT HAD THE WINDOWS UP DUE TO RAIN AND THEY GOT THERE WINDOW SMASHED IN. THE ONLY VEHICLE NOT DAMAGED WAS A NON-RENTAL LOCAL ISLANDER VEHICLE NEXT TO US. THEY WERE PICKING SHELLS DOWN ON THE SHORE WHILE WE WERE SNORKLING.(NOW AFTER ALL THE ACCUSATIONS I HAVE HEARD FROM MARC I AM A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS THAT MAYBE THEY WERE THE LOOKOUTS FOR DIVERS COMING BACK)

MY REASON FOR POSTING THIS WAS ONLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL OTHERS WHO COME TO THIS ISLAND. WE CAME THERE FOR THREE YEARS SPENT 8 WEEKS ON THAT ISLAND AND WE WERE NEVER MADE AWARE OF THE CRIME PROBLEM UNTIL AFTER WE GOT ROBBED. I HAVE HEARD HORRIBLE CRIME STORIES OF OUR US CITIES AND I WAS ALWAYS ON ALERT BECAUSE I HAD BEEN WARNED. MY FAMILY AND I HAVE SPENT MANY WEEKS IN THE BIG CITIES OF THE US AND WE HAVE NOT HAD SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN TO US. IF IT EVER DOES AT LEAST WE WERE WARNED. I HOPE YOU GET A POLICE FORCE THAT STARTS PATROLLING THOSE AREAS THEY KNOW ARE A PROBLEM AND PUT AND END TO IT BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF CONTROL. I KNOW WE WILL NOW TRY ANOTHER PLACE UNTIL WE HEAR STORIES OF HOW THE POLICE ARE PUTTING AN END TO THIS PROBLEM. SINCE ITS THE ONLY ISLAND OUT OF 5 WE HAVE SPENT TIME AT THAT WE HAD A PROBLEM THE OTHERS DESERVE ANOTHER SHOT.

I DO KNOW THAT I AM NOT GOING TO GO SOMEWHERE THAT I CAN NOT BRING MY CAMERAS WITH ME. THATS THE MOST ABSURD THING I HAVE EVER HEARD. THINK ABOUT HOW FOOLISH THAT SOUNDS WHEN YOU SAY IT MARC. WHY DO YOU THINK WE COME HERE! BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THIS AT HOME WE WANT PICTURES OF IT!!!.

AS FAR AS INSURANCE I HAD NO VACATION INSURANCE SO THIS WAS NOT PART OF SOME BIG SCAM. I HAVE REQUESTED TO MY INSURANCE AGENT IF ANY COVERAGE WAS AVAILABLE BUT HAVE NOT HEARD BACK YET. DOES NOT SOUND PROMISING. BUT TO BE HONEST IF I GOT THE TAPES AND THE PICTURES I LOST BACK I WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH THAT.

I JUST WISHED INSTEAD OF BURYING THIS IN THE DISCUSSIONS SECTION THEY WOULD PUT THE WARNING ON THE HOME PAGE OF THIS WEB SITE. I HAD POSTED THIS IN EACH SECTION SO ALL COULD BE WARNED. I GOT A NASTY NOTE FROM THE EDITOR SAYING YOU CANT DO THAT. I COPIED HIS NOTE AND SENT IT TO EVERY MAJOR TRAVEL AGENT THAT BOOKS BONAIRE SO THEY KNOW THAT THERE IS A CRIME PROBLEM AND THAT ALL THE ISLANDERS ARE DOING THERE BEST TO BURY THE COMPLAINTS. THEN INSTEAD OF FIXING THE PROBLEM THEY INSULT YOU AND SAY YOU ARE TO BLAME FOR THE PROBLEM.

THEY NEED TO DEVELOP THE ATTITUDE THAT THE BUCK STOPS IN BONAIRE. IF THEY WANT TO KEEP A THRIVING TOURISM THEY NEED START PROTECTING THEM AND NOT THE CRIMINALS.

BEST REGARDS AND ENJOY IT JUST BE REAL CAREFUL. SINCE THE POLICE AND THE MERCHANTS DON'T SEEM TO WANT TO PUT AND END TO IT, THAT MEANS YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. BUYER BEWARE.

WILL

Well, that was loud and clear!

Michelle

Will,

You are not allowed to post the exact same message 8 times in various threads because once is enough. More than that is considered spamming as it would be if you received 10 emails about toner cartridges from an office store. This is a regular policy regardless of the content of the message.

Another moderator pointed out that we were referred to as an Editor. We do not edit/change any posting short of removing profanity and spam. We do not have to do this often. This is a discussion group so that all opinions can be heard in a civilized manner.

Regular posters can edit their own message within a minute of posting it. This allows for the oops factor when you hit the post button too quickly. But it does show up with a line that says you editted it. We don't allow posters to go back hours later and change posts because that would ruin the integrity of the conversation.

We also archive all the conversations going back to 1999 when this group was started.

Will:

Could you please stop shouting?

Using CAPS is considered shouting, and in poor taste. People will tend to take your posts more seriously if you don't shout at them.

Will, I agree with John STOP YELLING!!!
it is very hard to read a post with all capitals..
Also...
This is not a new subject to Bonaire Talk If you were a regular here you would know about the crime situation in Bonaire, and perhaps have ideas to help curb the situation..We have discussed having the resorts hire outside security and such.. we have even discussed the possibility of hiring a shore patrol person to accompany divers to remote dive sites.

If you do a word search for "crime" you will come up with 11 pages chock full of crime talk..perhaps it might be a good idea to read them all before you again "spam" with multiple posts on this site..

Note: I have never participated on any other internet board in my life but I do know that it's not nice to use caps. :-)


Two years ago, when I first started participating on this board there was a very angry woman freaking out all over the board about crime and all kinds of stuff. I think we were all dubbed sycophants at some point. I believe she went away though.

Anyway, I drifted away from the BT board as we couldn't go back last year and it was driving me nuts - bad PBD. Now, I've booked our trip this year to go back (April's coming up!!!) and start participating on the board so I can catch up and I feel like I'm watching another "freakout".

Can those experienced BT'rs tell me, as I'm curious, if freakouts are common on this board or do I just have special timing?

Any input would be interesting as I don't think a search for "BT Board Freakouts" would yield a lot of results. I'd really like to know!

I think it's the sociology background that's driving this question.
Thanks -
Michelle

Alright, I can no longer remain quiet. This has gone way out of control! It is very unfortunate that Will had to have his vacation ruined by the experience, but to say that "We were not warned" to justify it is simply naive and irresponsible. Going to a destination without doing a thorough research is inviting trouble. There's a wealth of information available but you have to be proactive to get it and use some common sense. I'm willing to bet that 99 percent of posters in this board are aware of the theft problem and do take steps to avoid becoming another victim. Granted, this does not guarantee that you will not become another statistic, but surely helps reduce those chances. My wife and I went to Bonaire for the very first time in January (we got married there) and were fully aware of all the everyday problems in the island and the steps that should be taken to prevent them way before our departure date. This board was by far, the best source of info. I never posted a question because all the answers were already there. All I had to do was a simple search. Incidentally, I have to get this out of my chest... It really bugs me when people post the same questions over and over. Something like "How's the diving in Bonaire?" or "what restaurants are good" are topics that don't need to be posted over and over since there are a lot of recent posts (the best source being the trip reports) that cover both good and bad aspects of the experience. In my experience, that shows someone who expects to have things handed to them. It takes but a couple of seconds to do a search!!! Whew! I feel better! Anyway, back to the topic. The theft problem has been covered extensively here. I also got info from one of my clients, who incidentally was the one who convinced me to pick Bonaire. He loved his time here, but was very aware of the problem, and in fact, was the first person to recommend to roll the windows down and leave no valuables (all common sense) Please stop passing the blame! It is unfortunate that you went through that most unpleasant experience, but crying that you were not made aware (as opposed to informing yourself prior) is not going to help! The people in this board are well aware of the problems in paradise and addressing them in alarming, loud capital letters is overstating the obvious. This whole conversation reminds me of those frivolous lawsuits against fast food companies by overweight people who claim they got to their sorry state of health because they "did not know" fast food was a nutritional wreck! Start taking responsibility for your actions (or lack of) and keep in mind that whenever you point a finger, three point back at you! Ughh! Coach Izzy

Michelle: It has nothing to do with this board in particular. It's something you'll find on pretty much any open-membership forum such as this.

As I've personally learned many times, textual communication leaves much, much room for misinterpretation on the part of the reader(s). It is also very difficult to properly translate intentions into text. So not only is there a filter (good or bad) on the receiving end, the content is being filtered as it's being written on the sending end.

Put the two flawed scenarios together, pile a bunch of people with different cultural backgrounds, internet skill levels, and sprinkle in some light language barriers and you're sure to have a good time. Best skill I've gained from it is speed and accuracy in hitting the delete key (e-mail) or scrolling the wheelmouse (browser).

The above is all based on my own personal experiences. Others may have had different experiences, but that's what makes us all unique.

Another lesson learned is that you can't change someone else, especially through e-mail, unless that person is open and willing to be changed. No amount of ASCII characters is going to impress your idea or philosophy upon their way of thinking. This has been my most common observation in exchanges such as this - most arguments...er...heated discussions begin when people are trying to convince someone else that they (the writer) is right and the others (the readers) are wrong.

Ok, I'm done getting all philosophical on you.

Thanks Brian -

I like philosophy! My husband was a philo major and guess where he grew up - Westchester, Illinois - We are in New Lenox now. I "hear" (no pun intended given the subject) what you are saying and have always thought that email/text is very easy to take out of context. I guess IMHO- that on this board most people are really laid back - opinions are floated but usually aren't forced and then along comes someone who, like you said - try to "convince" and it seems that they get frustrated when most people don't buy in and then the freakout begins.

This board is so laid back that when I see that - it is almost funny.

I dunno - Can't think about this anymore as my husband's pulling on my sleeve to go and celebrate St. Patty's day night. What is up with these Chicago area people and St. Pattie's day? I'm from Louisiana and I'm serious - it's like Mardi Gras around here! Off to drink green beer ( wine?) :-?
Michelle