Hello,

I am reviewing my options regarding medical school and was introduced to Xavier university in Bonaire. Is this a great school to do medicine and what are the challenges in getting to and staying in Bonaire as a student?

I tried to get in there studying to be a near sighted gynocologist...but for some reason they never responded. I dont understand.

(Message edited by jepuskar on September 4, 2007)

Not many BTers are very familiar with the schools on Bonaire--see www.valuemd.com for more information about them. If you do go to Xavier, they will help you to get temporary residency to be on the island while you are studying. Not that you asked , but my advice would be to try to get into one of the more established Caribbean med schools if you want to be guaranteed to be able to practice in the US. Best of luck to you.

Jason, I can explain that lack of response to you. I can send you a private email if you need to have anything S P E L L E D
O U T.

No Mare, LOL, that's ok.

I must add, once one gets older, the vision 'issue' does come up. I really do know a obs/gyn who lost his midrange vision. Until he got a new eyeglass prescription he could either see close up or at arm's length.
You just can't make this stuff up.


And Jason,
anytime you need to have simple things explained, I'm there for you buddy!


(from a funny email from Martin)

M A R E

Alex,
What are those more established Caribbean Med school? I don't seem to be able to find any. Any suggestions?
I was particularly looking for a school that offers both PreMed and MD program.

I had 6 medical student roommates from Ross Uni. in Dominica. They seemed to really like their education and in my opinion were very intelligent and steadfast individuals working hard. They were in their surgical rotations when they were at Cape Cod Hospital. They spoke well of Ross's Dominica campus. I was just in Antigua last week. They have a few medical schools..tons of students on island. Great for the economy for sure. My friend went to an offshore medical school in the Philipines and he makes 6 figures as a aenestiologist at NEMC. I think many go to offshore schools because they test poorly or because they cannot get into more competitive schools in the US. Also, offshore schools are cheaper from what I am told.

A medical school doesn't make the student; the student is the one that determines whether or not they are worth anything as a doctor. There are plenty of graduates from US medical schools that couldn't pass the USMLE if their own lives depended on it! Unfortunately, it isn't only their lives they are responsible for anymore. Yes, the schools here are not the greatest and have less than solid reputations on the island but the students here are also intelligent (maybe contrary to what some of the BTer's here believe from the above postings) and it's how hard you work at being a doctor that makes you either a malpractice nightmare or a good doc.

Well said...

Christina,

I by no means meant to imply that SJSM or Xavier students are by any means incapable of becoming great doctors--only that the road ahead of them might be more difficult than with a more established school (where you can legally practice for example). I used to work at SJSM and met some wonderful, intelligent people who were studying there. I wish only the best for them/you all.

But sadly plenty of offshore schools go under, leaving their students stranded (St. Chris for example) and people need to research exactly what they are getting into. Clearly you did that, and it works for you, which is great. But I met too many people (especially young people) who hadn't a clue what they were getting into coming to Bonaire and with the education (or in some cases lack thereof) they would be receiving. You hit the nail on the head--it's up to the student to get the job done, but IMHO that is more easily done some places than others. I think it is at least important for people to know all their options and what limitations might be involved in whichever school they choose.


Cutie Davis,

I am no expert, but froom my reseatch more established schools would include Ross, Saba & SGU. They have been around a lot longer than other schools and have a proven track record. Beware, there are some real scams out there. If it is important for you to be able to practice in certain states like NY or California, note that not all Caribbean schools will qualify you for that. Again, I recommend checking out valuemd--it includes links to the schools websites and forums for each school. But never believe everything you read online. Even though it's expensive, I strongly recommend you visit any school you are seriously considering attending. It is not always easy to change your mind once you've started. Or rather you can change your mind, but you might waste a lot of money & time. Best of luck!

Alex makes valid points. I don't know anything about the medical schools in the Caribbean, but I do know a little about the Veterinary Schools in the Caribbean, and it is right in line with what Alex stated.

It can be very difficult to obtain US licensure from those (veterinary) schools, unless you put in either an additional year after "graduation" from them or transfer to a school in the US for your final year.

Not all schools have room for the transferees (probably only because there are way fewer vet schools than med schools), and really - who would want to transfer to somewhere like Wisconsin for winter after spending 3 years in the Caribbean? LOL (I went to Wisconsin for undergrad and vet school... so I'm not making fun of them - great school!!)

I do know several vets and vet students who have gone to school in the Caribbean and they had wonderful educations and are excellent vets - if anything perhaps they are more driven because of the uphill battle. I would assume many, if not most, of the med students would fall into the same category - driven... they know what they want and will do what it takes to get there.

Christina - I think you can attend a "poor" university (and I'm not calling Xavier poor - I know nothing about it or its reputation) and get an excellent education and vice versa... it depends on how much you are willing to put into your experience. You are absolutely correct... the university does NOT make the student! Good luck with your endeavors!

I do not attend Xavier, I am a student at SJ. Yes, the school as issues but I am the one that has to study hard and come out ahead. I graduated a double major from an extremely good college in the US and could have attended medical school (my husband and I {before I came here} both worked for the University of Pittsburgh where I was accepted)in the US. I chose to come here because it was one of the safest islands in the Caribbean, I wanted an adventure and I brought my children so they could also live a "once in a lifetime" experience. How many children get to have the chance of living in the Caribbean for two years?
You can be licensed in the US if you attend medical school in the Caribbean. There are students around the US that if you search the internet for residents from SJ (I never tried Xavier) you will find MDs doing their residencies in hospitals now. SJ is a young school so there are not many yet but their first classes have doctors working in the US now.
Cutie..It is up to you what you do with your education. It is very easy for people who are not doing what we are going to sit and pass judgement and tell you what they have "heard" or "been told". If you want to attend a Caribbean medical school then work hard, study hard, and do extremely well on your USMLEs just like every medical student has to do and you will be fine. The NY or CA issue only matters if you want to practice there. I for one could care less about NY or CA as I have no interest in practicing in either. I am from PA and know that PA does not permit FMGs to do clinicals ( I will be doing mine about an hour away from Pgh in Ohio) in the state HOWEVER, you can do residency and be licensed there! Your best bet Cutie is to do some research into what state you want to be working in when you are all done with clinicals. SJ and Xavier students do their classwork here on the island then do ALL of their clinicals in the US at green book hospitals (same as US med students). I know Texas is a case by case decision so check with the state you want to be in before deciding from posts on a message board about what to do with the rest of your life. Visit all of the schools you are considering. Meet the people that live on the island, take in the culture. Understand is it is somewhere you can be for - since you are premed- 30 months. Island life without the comforts of home can be trying if you are not one that can go without certain luxuries. All in all, study hard! Good luck with whichever school you choose!!

Christina,

Again, I truly meant no offense. Since Cutie Davis was unaware of which Caribbean schools even exist, I though it might be helpful to note that there is a big difference between the various schools. There are some currently operating who's students may never be able to practice anywhere because the school's legal right to run has not been recognized by the appropriate agencies. And for many people, NY and CA are an issue, which is why I mentioned that not all schools will give you the right to practice anywhere in the US. Or Canada for that matter. I cannot tell you how many young people I met at SJSM who had no idea what they were getting into and had a hard and expensive time getting out of it. Knowledge is power--I was just trying to encourage Cutie to gather all the information. Again, clearly you did your research and SJSM works for you. It does for many. But you must know that it isn't right for everyone--no school, in the US or abroad, is. I hope it works for Cutie as well--I love Bonaire and remember (most of) my time at SJSM fondly--but there are other options which could make the road ahead easier. That's all I was trying to say . Best of luck, Alex

Becky, I owe you an email--coming soon! It is interesting but not surprising to me that vets have the same issues. And I agree completely--you get out of your education what you put into it. But different schools might make achieving your long term goals more or less complicated.


Alex

Christina

When I read your post I checked out the USMLE web site. I was curious about your statement that many US medical school grads could not pass the USMLE. In 2005 the pass rate for part 1 for US students was 94% in 2006 it was 95%. After 1 retake it was estimated to be 99%. http://www.usmle.org/Scores_Transcripts/performance/2006.html

I think it is very important to learn where the students from any school one is considering do their clinical work. Clinical rotations get your foot in the door for residency spots. In my opinion it is residency that makes you the doctor you will eventually be. If one were to spend years at a school that did not permit you to get the residency you wanted when the time came that would be a waste of time. I at one time in 1977-78 was accepted at Grenada, imagine how that might have worked out, I could have been there for the invasion.

I actually contacted the president of the association of american medical colleges to ask why there are not more spots in US schools. It seems there are far more residency spots than graduates. He never answered.
When you are done with your training, if you want small town life in Delaware please give me a call. Our state has many doctors from many different places and we all could use some more.

As I stated before, students who attend SJ (I am not sure about Xavier as I am not a student there) do all of their clinical rotations at green book hospitals in the US alongside US medical students. Cutie, just do your research, go to the schools you are interested in and tour each school, get a feel for the faculty and administration and you will be able to make your choice that suits you from there. As for Delaware, no thanks I am from Pittsburgh and am very comfortable with city life. I have seen the pass rates before, wonder how many medical school students from the US do not even take the USMLE that have graduated from medical school? Only posted to give Cutie some advice from an actual student on the island right now and I have done that, good luck Cutie I am sure you will do well in whichever direction you take for your future. Cutie if you need any more questions answered about what it is like to be s student on Bonaire pm me.

Re: SJSM

I called their Chicago office to inquire about the admission, clinical rotations in Canada, etc. The counselor in their admissions office did not answer any of my questions , instead he informed me that he" knew my nation's people's tricks" ( i'm not the US citizen ) and that the Dutch embassy in my country will" never issue you a visa to come to Bonaire" . He sounded like a nazi and a chauvinist; i asked for his name and he promptly hanged up on me.

Best of all, when i called back the bored and somewhat nervous young lady read me some crap info off their website and then revealed that the statements on the site are incorrect/ outdated. They will never provide a student with clinical rotations opportunities in any country other than the US. Even for the US rotations the students will be selected based on specific cases... What are the specifics? She failed to answer... She advised me to " call the hospital myself and say: Hi, i am a medical student, do you have rotations slots for me? ". Laughter... At this point i was convinced the enterprise i was dealing with is a scam and a scam not even elegant enough to con the $ 70,000+ out of my pocket.

Food for thought for all of you future medical residents...

I am a student at St James and we do not set up our own clinicals unless you want to do one in a state or hospital that is not already working the school. We do not have clinical rotations in Canada, most of the Caribbean med schools do not have these. As for your statement about not being a US citizen, the majority of the students here are from Canada and no one at the Chicago office has a German accent, they are all from India. nice try though but this post if most likely from one of the other trolls working for a rival school. If you want to know what this school is really like, talk to a real student! Oh and the specifics for clinicals...you have to actually pass the boards before you can start your core clinicals. Do some homework before you look into med school next time!

Christina: I am starting SJSM in January 2008. what semester are you in? Where are you doing your clinicals in Ohio? Did SJSM set them up for you or did you already have a contact there?

Brian: tell me more about the opportunities in Delaware. I am leaning towards rural medicine family practice. I hope to get a residency at a hospital that has healthy (lol, and only the healthy part) dose of holistic medicine.

Alex: I have read that SJSM is a non-profit organization. Did this seem to be the case to you?

Jason,

The short answer is "no" . Presumably they have structured the business so as to be granted this status, but in my opinion it is very misleading. The owner(s) of the school seem to me to be most definitely in it for the money. That said, this is true of most, if not all offshore med schools, so I don't know that it should be a factor for you. If they are selling a service you want to buy, everyone should be happy!

Best of luck to you.

Alex

Jason,
I am finishing my MD1 term this week and will be starting the ground work for my clinicals (trying for Ohio) in January. Saw your other post about your dog. Was going to cost me $1,000 with no guarantee of getting her actually onto the island (closest was Aruba then I had to try to get her from there to here) so I had to leave her at home. A guy in my class had his wife fly down with his dogs but they ended up having a lay over for almost a week in Puerto Rico so it can be done just be ready to pay a lot for it. Good luck with everything and see you in Jan!

About living in Bonaire. What would anyone advice me to do...stay on or off campus? Which one is cheaper? Also, is there a welcome comittee or ? I'll be starting at St. James in May. so, if anyone can answer ma many questions I'll be very grateful. Thank you.

What Campus...??? Did someone tell you there was a campus with housing, student union buildings, etc. Boy are you in for a surprise!

(Message edited by gmichael on February 21, 2008)

Are u a student @ St. James?

There are not too many med students who read this forum. You can find them at www.valuemd.com. While SJSM does help with finding housing, there are no 'dorms' on 'campus' in the traditional sense. I advise all prospective students to visit so you can get a sense of the school and the island before making your decision. Best of luck to you with your studies.