By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #293) on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
There was an armed robbery in Hato (Between Kralingen-town and Sabadeco, near to the electricity-plant).
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By Tom (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3127) on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 11:11 pm: |
Harrie, thank you for your post. I had heard of this horrific crime via e-mails and telephone conversation today. The lack of immediate action by the police is disgusting.
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By Cindy W. (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #443) on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 11:48 pm: |
I am absolutely speechless.
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By Susan Taft (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #607) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:07 am: |
Harrie, thank you for your post. Like Tom, I too had heard of this tragedy. My thoughts are with the victim, everyone in Hato and all the wonderful people of Bonaire. My home was recently broken into and items stolen but I was thankfully not home. I can empathize with the victim of this crime but cannot in any way imagine what she must be feeling. I was fortunate to have a responsive police department and can understand the frustration you all must feel that she had to go to the police instead of them coming to her. I hope that all of you are able to get some sleep ...
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By Vince DePietro (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #237) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 6:52 am: |
I can NOT comprehend why the police could not get their asses down there ASAP when they received the tel call from this unfortunate woman. I think this is almost as reprehensible as the crime itself.
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By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2146) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 8:12 am: |
Hello all. This is disturbing to say the least. I'm sitting here thinking to myself, would I even know what to do if something happens like this on my next trip? No, I wouldn't. I know, don't fight back, let them take what they want etc.; but, what are the steps involved to get help? I don't even know the phone number to the police station.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #426) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
What's this you say?!?
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By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2147) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
Hi Randy...fellow Chicago native here as well. I was serious with my post. I have went through the archives and there is lots of commentary, but that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for facts. What's the phone number? Where is the police station located? What about fire, etc??? I assume they do not use the 911 number system that we do, but can't seem to find what to do. I even found commentary in a trip report on ambulances choosing when they will come to scenes. How does one convince police, fire, ambulance that they are needed? What are the protocols, the basic laws, etc... Maybe we can get some good solid information instead of all of the usual commentary. Maybe we are evaluating their system based upon our own, when in fact they are functioning within their legal structure? Many countries simply do not have the infrastructure we do. It is our responsibility as guests in their country to learn the laws and know what to do. I cannot seem to find out what these laws are and the information put out by the US State Department is not very helpful. Any factual information out there?
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #294) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:31 am: |
Here we go:
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By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2148) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:33 am: |
Thank you Harrie!
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By Gail Thomas (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1067) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
Thank you for posting this Harrie. I like keeping up on all things happening on Bonaire, good and bad.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #427) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
Hi Jeanine,
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By Tish (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1060) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
Two points:
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By Sue (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #180) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:44 pm: |
Harry
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By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2150) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
Tish...this is even sadder news now. I am very thankful the woman and her baby were not hurt. What is this island security police you wrote about? Can anyone call them in a crisis or is it a private agency?
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By Susan - BSDME (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #263) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:11 pm: |
Tish,
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #295) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 2:05 pm: |
Susan,
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By Tish (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1066) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
BTers, I need your help. So does the victim.
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By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #41) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:03 pm: |
Could we PLEASE keep the unfounded speculation down to a low roar, try not to post things we should not be posting, and maintain a modicum of respect and deference for the feelings of the victim? Usually a good rule of thumb to tell if you should post something is to think whether you would want it posted about YOU. I don't care if BT gets scooped by the Bonaire Reporter or anyone else. This is not Television News.
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By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5793) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
Tish,
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By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #42) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:36 pm: |
I did some screwing around with this thread, but I have restored it to it's original form. Deleting messages is not allowed under our operating procedures, especially after the messages have been responded to.
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By Tish (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1067) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:52 pm: |
Moderators,
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By Rosanne Nandan (BonaireTalker - Post #13) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 4:10 pm: |
I think we should all for one, think about the victim and hope that she is o.k..
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By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #43) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
I find nowhere in our stated policies the information Tish cites. Our policy is clear:
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By Antony Bond (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 5:19 pm: |
This is very sad to see, the problem seems to be a combination of a few things. I believe that the prevention of petty theft is more successful due to word of mouth, sites like this have helped a lot. However, the would be thieves still require their "loot" to finance whatever habits they are supporting. If the "soft" targets are diminishing then they have to resort to plan B, hence this latest crime.
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #296) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 5:42 pm: |
Come on, people, what was this post about?
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By Jake Richter - NetTech (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #5794) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 5:51 pm: |
Harrie,
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By Gail Thomas (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1072) on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 6:10 pm: |
And so those who will be vacationing where they sometimes sit out very late, outside their rooms, chatting and rehashing the day's events and dives, can also be vulnerable to these bums.... And we don't have dogs to warn us or weapons.... This is very unsettling.
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By Mod Seb (Moderator - Post #44) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:31 am: |
Tish refers to this message she received:
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By shawn thiele (BonaireTalker - Post #99) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:43 am: |
I've lived in the not so nice parts of town for a fair amount of my life, which granted isn't long. One day while i'm sitting in my living room a guy tried climbing in through the window. I chased him out with my bat in just boxers. Luckily for me though the police came right away. Hell the first month i lived in that place there were 7 murders within a mile of my apartment. I'm sure bonaire can't be much worse than some of the places I've lived lol. I feel bad for this woman, especially given the circumstances with her medical issues, you guys are all going to be in trouble with hipaa ;) lol.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #429) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:50 am: |
I'll stay out of any potential urinating contest between posters and moderators but....
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #297) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
Moderators!
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By Freddie Hughes {Moderator} (Moderator - Post #133) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
Harrie if you and others would stop talking about it this thread would get back on track. we will not move these posts just like we will not remove the other posts above.. Now back to the crime issue!!!!! Has anyone heard anything else that can be posted?????
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By seb (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #2658) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
Okay, CRIME. Does anyone have any factual and verifiable information that does not compromise the investigation of the crime or the privacy of the victim, and is within the posting rules, that they would like to share?
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #430) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
OK then, crime it is....sorta.
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #298) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
Sorry Freddie,
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #537) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
Quickly, the moderators are doing a great job IMHO. Bonaire Talk goes on because the moderators have taken on the task. So, moderators keep it up!!! It may be time for another email/letter writing campaign. Is it just me or does it seem like the authorities on Bonaire get on the job when they start receiving letters reference a recent crime that threatens to cut down on the number of tourists visiting Bonaire then start to slack off when the volume of anti-crime mail slacks off? Seems that way to me so does anyone have those email addresses that have been posted on Bonaire Talk before - time they heard from me again I reckon. Thanks in advance to whoever post the addresses. I'll be doing whatever I damn well please on my 7th trip to Bonaire in June while taking the usual precautions of course Bad guys or no. Its all good on Bonaire.
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By Scott Phillips (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #355) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 1:06 pm: |
I keep hearing things from Bonaire residents about how the new police chief is a vast improvement over the old one and that he is trying to make things better. Does anyone who lives on island have any comment on this?
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #299) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 1:48 pm: |
I don't have really experience on the way of working of the new chief, I also hear good comments too, and I saw him busy instructing his subordinates during the Carnival-festivities. He looked very pro-active, and did the right things to have his guys do their jobs, in stead of just enjoying themselves looking at the procession. But if you hear what happened to the Robbed woman, "some" improvement should be done.
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #300) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:05 pm: |
Sorry, I used a wrong word, I think.
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By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #141) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:15 pm: |
Harrie, thank you for all of your comments and information. Go to TTOL (www.traveltalkonline.com), ST. Maarten and do a search for crime....this past month there were murders in Marigot.
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By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #143) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:23 pm: |
Harrie, no problem. I Freddie caught it at the same time I did. My Dutch is not good at all ;-)
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By Cyn (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #17240) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:35 pm: |
OK, found them:
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #538) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
Thanks Cyn. My emails will be on the way to Bonaire shortly. I'll send one to the head of police later assuming the address can be found. Good Job!
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By Brian (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1449) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 2:55 pm: |
I think this is a good time to reflect on how Bonairetalk gives far more information about crime on Bonaire than any other comparable island. I am not suggesting censorship but more interested in how the bigger picture could be seen. I mean no disrespect for the victim of this crime and hope that she recovers fully and am ashamed by the lameful response of the Bonaire Police force.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #539) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:21 pm: |
I'd agree with Brian. The crime issue should not be a show stopper when deciding on travel to Bonaire; yet, the pressure should be kept on the police and government to continually improve the situation.
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By Back to Jeanine, or is it Tribs? (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #2163) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 5:19 pm: |
I'm always trying to find the bright side, so here goes with respect to Brian and Marcus. I think we see the posts on crime and openly discuss it here because crime is not the norm - it is the exception. No one would be shocked by, or even want to discuss really, the amount of crime on Jamaica or in the Dominican Republic. It is a given - hotels there hire armed guards and you do not leave the property. I think it is great that 1) Bonaire is so small and so non-violent that we are outraged when something happens and 2) we have this wonderful venue to discuss it when it does happen.
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By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #145) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:27 pm: |
I've sent out a couple of emails about the new Chief of Police contact info, and any other numbers/info that might be of help. Once I receive anything back I will post it here.
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By Norm Duke (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 7:32 pm: |
My wife and I will be visiting Bonaire for the first time in April and it is distressing to read about the crime in this thread. I thought it might be interesting to share this with everyone
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By Jim Wagner (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:39 pm: |
Norm and Marva (and everyone),
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By James Thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #58) on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:23 pm: |
we are here and having a great time, everyone should get a grip!!! This thread is real amusing.
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By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #338) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 6:04 am: |
"This thread is real amusing."
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By jenny redner (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
How effective are dogs at deterring criminals from your home?
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By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #35) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 11:01 am: |
I wasn't going to comment on this, but...
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By Grasshopper (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #17256) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
Jenny, a lot of folks have dogs. They are effective to some extent because they scare would be intruders away. There have been a few poisonings but I have no idea the number. I think I've read about one in the 6 1/2 years I have been reading BT. Keep in mind there will be crime anywhere you move in this world. Read Harrie's post above again, as to why he chose to move to Bonaire over other Carib islands.
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By Cynde (Moderator) (Moderator - Post #146) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
Here is the name and mailing address of the new Police Chief. They did not have an email address for him. Maybe someone on island will have it.
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By Norm Duke (BonaireTalker - Post #45) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:04 pm: |
So Jon, should everyone stay away for fear of crime? Should everyone who has moved there pack up and leave? My point is that for the visiting divers and tourist, common sense is the rule, not only here, but anywhere in the world.
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By Alex Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #56) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
The telephone book lists the email address for the former police chief (Daantje) as:
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By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #36) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
No Norm, I would still recommend Bonaire as a wonderful vacation spot to friends, family, and clients. However, I would hate to see lack of positive policing coupled with an increasingly aggressive criminal element ruin one of the last truly peaceful places on earth.
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By jenny redner (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
What are the laws concerning defense of your property in a situation like this?
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By Grasshopper (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #17265) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:29 pm: |
Jenny, guns are illegal on Bonaire. I'm not sure what the "self defense" laws are on Bonaire.
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By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #106) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:44 pm: |
I think everyone is just getting a little too defensive and worried. We all know to use common sense(or should) when we are on these trips. Obviously this wasn't that type of case, just some bad luck on her part. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It happens. From the few stories I hear on here, I really am not too terribly worried about the actual crime itself on the island. It just gets blown way out of proportion because the size of the island is so much smaller.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #540) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:46 pm: |
I think Jon (and others) hit the nail on the head. When the smoke clears, this issue comes down to the criminals lack of fear for the police and the police department's lack of competence/motivation. I plan on telling them that(again)since I plan to continue visiting Bonaire, for, oh, the rest of my life!! Cyn posted the info - go for it!
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #301) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 2:39 pm: |
So many questions, and I know so few answers.
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #302) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 2:49 pm: |
Shawn makes a good point in the second half of his post. It looks like family of Police and Politicians (children?) are involved in many cases, but I think it is dangerous and not wise to post more than this. But I know more.....
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By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #108) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:10 pm: |
Harrie,
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #433) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:29 pm: |
I would only comment that this particular victim was NOT in the wrong place at the wrong time, she was the victim of a violent armed assault while in her own residence minding her own business of an evening.
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By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #37) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:33 pm: |
Harrie, you write great English! Much better than my Dutch, ya?
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By Jon (BonaireTalker - Post #38) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:38 pm: |
Oh, Randy, no...
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By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #111) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:40 pm: |
The wrong place at the wrong time cliche refers to wherever you are. That could be at home or at a store or in your car. If I'm sitting at home and a bomb just happens to drop on my house, I would be be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I was at my buddy's house I'd be in the right place at the wrong time. My house would still be gone, but I would be fine. Being at my house 2 hours before would be the wrong place at the right time, considering it's about to be blown up in 2 hours. Homes are less safe in my opinion. If I'm a burglar that's where I'm looking first, not the streets. She just happened to be at the place they picked. It's unfortunate, but well it happens. You just hope it doesn't happen to you.
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By shawn thiele (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #112) on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 4:48 pm: |
Also we must not ignore tourists who do illegal things. It's amazing while on vacation to just see random people grab things off places and you wonder if it's really theirs. Do they even realize it's not theirs? Sometimes I think people might take things not even paying attention, I know some really airheaded people like this. I had a teacher the other day ask everyone if they left their purse then open it up only to say, oh it's mine. Then there's people like my mom's ex husband who's always looking to steal something. Everywhere he'd go he'd always be on the lookout for something to take out of someone's car or purse or whatever he could get his hands on. Trying to track down someone who's there one day and gone back home the next is gonna be hard.
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By Pete Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #46) on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 9:28 am: |
Hey folks,
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By Bob Smits (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #300) on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 5:19 pm: |
Herbert Domacasse: hdomacasse@yahoo.com
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By Pete Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
Bob,
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By Bob Smits (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #302) on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
Pete,
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By Jim Taylor (BonaireTalker - Post #18) on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 7:42 pm: |
I arrived on Bonaire last Tuesday and as luck would it I am staying at a very nice home in Hato. It is five doors down from the location of the break-in. The local residents that are afraid and upset. At this end of town the street lights are about 1/4 mile apart and not very bright - a 60 watt blub would give as much light. You can also walk along the ocean frontage and stay out of sight in the darkness. There have been other robberies but more of a opportunist smash and grab variety.
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #303) on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 8:29 pm: |
And Jim, so what?
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By Pete Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #48) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
To underscore Harrie's point, I sent the following open email message (in Papiamentu and English but not in Dutch) to the politicos indicated). I also sent copies to the Extra and the Reporter, in case they might want to publish it along with any others they might have received in order to increase the pressure on the politicians to work to achieve a functioning law enforcement presence on Bonaire.
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By Jim Taylor (BonaireTalker - Post #19) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
One thing the residents are doing is buying aerisol horns (the kind you start races with). If anyone sees anything or is threatened they will blow the horn whitch is VERY LOUD. The local stores were out of stock but a new shipment came in.
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #418) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:03 pm: |
I am not on the island at the moment, but read the local news paper... Extra had at least 2 articles about the robbery and there was one long letter from the police saying the response by the police was absolutely unaceptable (I forgot the rest, I think it was on Tuesday) ...
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By Harrie Cox (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #304) on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
Thanks Brigitte,
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By Captain Don (BonaireTalker - Post #99) on Sunday, April 9, 2006 - 2:20 pm: |
HARRIE COX
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